Rad Onc in The Lancet Oncology

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

radiation

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
341
Reaction score
704
Primary radiotherapy and deep inferior epigastric perforator flap reconstruction for patients with breast cancer (PRADA): a multicentre, prospective, non-randomised, feasibility study

There are a number of trials in this space now looking preoperative vs. postoperative radiation. I think this is the foot in the door to definitive radiation for selected pts. If you can treat positive nodes definitively with RT, you probably can do the same for (some) primaries

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
It's a nice study and a good idea.
Not sure how you can jump to "definitive radiotherapy" for locally advanced breast cancer
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
It's a nice study and a good idea.
Not sure how you can jump to "definitive radiotherapy" for locally advanced breast cancer
agree, not my takeaway, and cosmetically would expect worse outcomes as well, even if it worked oncologically.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
It's a nice study and a good idea.
Not sure how you can jump to "definitive radiotherapy" for locally advanced breast cancer
this is how the first step in non-operative treatment for rectal cancer started. Its a leap, but need to get into the preoperative space before jumping into definitive
 
Primary radiotherapy and deep inferior epigastric perforator flap reconstruction for patients with breast cancer (PRADA): a multicentre, prospective, non-randomised, feasibility study

There are a number of trials in this space now looking preoperative vs. postoperative radiation. I think this is the foot in the door to definitive radiation for selected pts. If you can treat positive nodes definitively with RT, you probably can do the same for (some) primaries
But even if this became a thing it wouldn't move the needle one way or the other re: footprint of RT in breast ca, or RT utilization in breast cancer. Right? Definitive RT for breast cancer is 1) a wild fantasy, 2) even if not a fantasy, couldn't reach primetime at least for another 15+y from today. I think we are at peak RT utilization in breast cancer for all intents and purposes. Patients on paper who would benefit from RT almost overwhelmingly do receive RT. What we will see in the future is less RT in pathologic CRs (HER2+ especially) after neoadj, and less RT after surgery in certain DCIS or invasive patients due to "precision medicine."

Enjoy these days friends, for you shant see them again.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 1 users
If you had to bet:

In what cancer sites will radiation utilization go up in the next 10 years?

Bladder comes to mind. Maybe skin if Moh's gets severely clipped. That's all I got.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 5 users
But even if this became a thing it wouldn't move the needle one way or the other re: footprint of RT in breast ca, or RT utilization in breast cancer. Right? Definitive RT for breast cancer is 1) a wild fantasy, 2) even if not a fantasy, couldn't reach primetime at least for another 15+y from today. I think we are at peak RT utilization in breast cancer for all intents and purposes. Patients on paper who would benefit from RT almost overwhelmingly do receive RT. What we will see in the future is less RT in pathologic CRs (HER2+ especially) after neoadj, and less RT after surgery in certain DCIS or invasive patients due to "precision medicine."

Enjoy these days friends, for you shant see them again.
I think that's one reasonable interpretation. Conversely, one may also say "precision medicine" may eventually guide more patients to getting post-mastectomy radiation who need it, its not like its exclusively used for radiation omission (ie people are using decipher to push for more post op prostate).

Lets chew on this data. In the public NCDB database, use of radiation therapy in breast cancer is stable to increased from 2010 to 2019

The number of fractions is going down, but I'm not so sure about the number of pts

1649778771909.png


1649778875104.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I think that's one reasonable interpretation. Conversely, one may also say "precision medicine" may eventually guide more patients to getting post-mastectomy radiation who need it, its not like its exclusively used for radiation omission (ie people are using decipher to push for more post op prostate).

Lets chew on this data. In the public NCDB database, use of radiation therapy in breast cancer is stable to increased from 2010 to 2019

The number of fractions is going down, but I'm not so sure about the number of pts

View attachment 353290

View attachment 353291
I like this post. "In God we trust. All others must bring data"

On the other hand, "Past performance is not indicative of future results"
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I think that's one reasonable interpretation. Conversely, one may also say "precision medicine" may eventually guide more patients to getting post-mastectomy radiation who need it, its not like its exclusively used for radiation omission (ie people are using decipher to push for more post op prostate).

Lets chew on this data. In the public NCDB database, use of radiation therapy in breast cancer is stable to increased from 2010 to 2019

The number of fractions is going down, but I'm not so sure about the number of pts

View attachment 353290

View attachment 353291
I mean, this is driven almost solely by rates of mastectomy. Just about every woman getting lumpectomy in America is also getting XRT. If anything, I think we've become much more liberal with use of post-mastectomy radiation over the past decade. Gone is that dogmatic, "4 nodes or more," mentality.

That has little to do with what's being discussed and studied now. If women with pCR post neoadjuvant chemo and/or low risk genomic testing don't require post-op XRT, the rate will drop precipitously. Even if they do, there is not really any room to increase utilization.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
If you had to bet:

In what cancer sites will radiation utilization go up in the next 10 years?

Bladder comes to mind. Maybe skin if Moh's gets severely clipped. That's all I got.
Utilization is going up in lung cancer; this is fact. This will be due to rising incidence of Stage I. This is good. However, compared to past, it will mean 5/6ths to 1/2 as many lung cancer patients under beam per day even though RT utilization is going up (SBRT less fx's than Stage III, natch). This is bad. And it seems there's a real "market cap" to SBRT in Stage I (which we are well away from hitting admittedly): lung cancer incidence is falling, and Stage I incidence can only go so high.

Skin has never seriously figured into RT utilization metrics; mostly because of the "1.8 million new cancer cases a year," non-melanoma skin cancer metrics are always outside this 1.8m (and not NCDB or SEER reportable usually). But yes, RT utilization could go up in skin.

Bladder seems more iffy to me, simply because urologists. But yes, it could. Renal? Maybe. Prostate, probably maxed out. Raw number of prostate patients has fluctuated wildly last decade, down and up. Thanks, USPSTF.

"RT utilization" (in the literature) has always only meant: if the patient is newly diagnosed with cancer, will RT be used within the first year of diagnosis? This has always seemed a pretty limited way to define RT utilization. Other things (ie how often will the patient come in for RT?) should have factored in for a more fulsome pic of RT utilization.

I think that's one reasonable interpretation. Conversely, one may also say "precision medicine" may eventually guide more patients to getting post-mastectomy radiation who need it, its not like its exclusively used for radiation omission (ie people are using decipher to push for more post op prostate).

Lets chew on this data. In the public NCDB database, use of radiation therapy in breast cancer is stable to increased from 2010 to 2019

The number of fractions is going down, but I'm not so sure about the number of pts

View attachment 353290

View attachment 353291
Great data. This shows:
1) RT utilization very stable over time (in breast)
2) Raw number of breast RT patients up ~38% over 2010-19 (essentially: population growth, and more hospitals in 2019 vs 2010?). If we go nationwide ~207K cases in 2010, ~269K cases in 2019, we find a little more subdued growth of ~30%. But still, growth.
DFCjKbP.png
zHhgqaM.png


This looks good right? However, total rad oncs are up ~30-40+% (depending on where you look) over that time frame. And fractions are probably down a third, which means a third less patients under beam for breast ca per day in the US. Combined with hospital/center/rad onc "growth dilution," slightly less raw number of breast patients per rad onc (on average), less number of breast cancer patients "on the service" per rad onc on average.

Of course 1/3 (or more, now) of all rad oncs in America are employed by ~90 of the largest practices. They might have seen some growth or stability in "breast work" at the expense of the vast swath of low volume rad oncs/centers in the US, of which the majority of centers/rad oncs are.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
But even if this became a thing it wouldn't move the needle one way or the other re: footprint of RT in breast ca, or RT utilization in breast cancer. Right? Definitive RT for breast cancer is 1) a wild fantasy, 2) even if not a fantasy, couldn't reach primetime at least for another 15+y from today. I think we are at peak RT utilization in breast cancer for all intents and purposes. Patients on paper who would benefit from RT almost overwhelmingly do receive RT. What we will see in the future is less RT in pathologic CRs (HER2+ especially) after neoadj, and less RT after surgery in certain DCIS or invasive patients due to "precision medicine."

Enjoy these days friends, for you shant see them again.
eh haven't looked at NCCN breast in a while, but the manuscript used to have a sentences about how definitive RT was bad. When I read the references used to support those statements (IIRC data from the UK in the 70-80s with only ultrasound staging and little/no chemo) I came away thinking hey the resulat ain't that bad. We could probably do better in this day and age. Though there was a recent NRG trial that didn't meet a prespecified endpoint. I'm all for multiple bites at the apple though.
 
eh haven't looked at NCCN breast in a while
What do you think @TheWallnerus or @Chartreuse Wombat, should we shatter folks’ illusions about what actually happens at an NCCN panel meeting or how the guidelines come to be? Or let people hold on the idealized version of “evidence-based” crap we are fed a little longer?
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I have seen good growth of SBRT for oligometastatic disease in the last 5 years and for intracranial SRS as extracranial systemic control has improved. That has to count for something.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
If you had to bet:

In what cancer sites will radiation utilization go up in the next 10 years?

Bladder comes to mind. Maybe skin if Moh's gets severely clipped. That's all I got.
I can tell you in what cancer sites I expect radiation utilization to drop:

- breast
- rectal cancer
- cervical cancer (HPV-vaccine effect)
- hodgkin's lymphoma
- atypical meningeoma (I expect us to lose "adjuvant" treatment)
 
Top