Rad Onc Job Interview “test”

[ucp1980]

Hey all - visitor here. I am asking this question on behalf of my wife, who is a radiation oncologist.

If you went on a job interview where you were asked to place your own blocks and put on your own beams as a competency measure … would you find this odd?

How would you feel if someone asked you to perform these tasks at a job interview?

Thank you in advance for any responses🙏

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[pikachu]

Hey all - visitor here. I am asking this question on behalf of my wife, who is a radiation oncologist.

If you went on a job interview where you were asked to place your own blocks and put on your own beams as a competency measure … would you find this odd?

How would you feel if someone asked you to perform these tasks at a job interview?

Thank you in advance for any responses🙏

Run, if for no other reason than that setting fields and drawing blocks is not really a core competency for rad onc any more

No, seriously, run, this sounds like an absolutely awful working environment and the “test” at the interview is probably just a tiny window into a very malignant working environment. I’ve interviewed at a lot of places and have never heard of anything even remotely like this.

 

[gvsudew]

Hey all - visitor here. I am asking this question on behalf of my wife, who is a radiation oncologist.

If you went on a job interview where you were asked to place your own blocks and put on your own beams as a competency measure … would you find this odd?

How would you feel if someone asked you to perform these tasks at a job interview?

Thank you in advance for any responses🙏

I agree this is probably a malignant practice environment but sadly there has probably been more focus on memorizing and regurgitation of minutia than learning real treatment planning (quality contouring, planning optimization and plan evaluation), patient setup and imaging, etc... that can lead to quality issues that often go undetected (at least to people outside the rad onc dept).

 

[ucp1980]

I really appreciate the responses. This was our instinct as well … just needed to see if we were off base or not

If anyone has a counter view, I’d be interested to read your thoughts.

But yeah, malignant was the reputation going in, then the “competency test” came, and we then started to piece together that it might be a bad fit.

 

[RadRadRad]

Setting fields is a little odd
Placing blocks less so. I think a lot of radoncs still do some of their own blocks for palliative cases and some breast cases.

I don’t think it’s strange to try to have some understanding of someone’s clinical competency prior to hiring them. This typically is more in the form of asking about a case rather than actually watching them use treatment planning system

I wouldn’t rule out a place based on this. I’d go more with your overall impression of the opportunity

 

[ucp1980]

Fair enough … my wife’s attitude is that this is not an actual measure of competence.

 

[Pointless]

Doesn't sound great. I'm going to go ahead with step out on a limb here and guess that the "examiner" in this case is a boomer.

 

[Gfunk6]

Hey all - visitor here. I am asking this question on behalf of my wife, who is a radiation oncologist.

If you went on a job interview where you were asked to place your own blocks and put on your own beams as a competency measure … would you find this odd?

How would you feel if someone asked you to perform these tasks at a job interview?

Thank you in advance for any responses🙏

dafaq?

Did they ask you to empty the wastepaper basket and clean the toilets as a comptency measure too?

 

[NotMattSpraker]

Setting fields is a little odd
Placing blocks less so. I think a lot of radoncs still do some of their own blocks for palliative cases and some breast cases.

I don’t think it’s strange to try to have some understanding of someone’s clinical competency prior to hiring them. This typically is more in the form of asking about a case rather than actually watching them use treatment planning system

I wouldn’t rule out a place based on this. I’d go more with your overall impression of the opportunity

I usually evaluate this by calling references and others I know that may have worked with the applicant.

I would take great offense to being "pimped" in a job interview. By interviewing the person, you've decided their training program is good enough to produce someone you may be willing to work with.

If someone wants to talk about a case in an informal way, maybe comparing and contrasting approaches, great, I find that fun. Testing me? No thanks.

This latter approach would be a much more respectful way to give you insight to someone's clinical approach to a type of case anyway.

 

[drowsy12]

I had some interviews as a PGY5 with rapid fire questions. clinical and ethical cases. felt normal then but would be weird now if I was applying with experience

 

[medgator]

I had some interviews as a PGY5 with rapid fire questions. clinical and ethical cases. felt normal then but would be weird now if I was applying with experience

💯

Huge red flag IMO

 

[gmsquid]

Related question, if you were interviewing somebody for a subspecialty academic position how would you evaluate their disease site competence out of residency.

 

[drowsy12]

Related question, if you were interviewing somebody for a subspecialty academic position how would you evaluate their disease site competence out of residency.

There’s a fair way to do this. Chat about things you do and ask how they handle cases like that in their training program. There are ways to do this in a casual collegial manner that give you a sense of how someone speaks and thinks about patient care.

 

[RadOncMegatron]

Related question, if you were interviewing somebody for a subspecialty academic position how would you evaluate their disease site competence out of residency.

Let’s be real, out of residency you are not a disease site specialist. You may have a pub here or there but you are not a specialist… yet. I rather see if they are willing to work hard and if they have done that during residency. Unfortunately, like many things it helps to have someone I know vouch for you. With that said, do you have any experience that the hospital could market you as a “specialist”? If you have that then 1 year into the job seeing exclusively one or two sites will have you as the “specialist.” I only put “specialist” in quotes because a private practice guy who has been treating breast, lung, or prostate for 15 years is more of a “specialist” than a 1 year academic. 10 year academic in one site though definitely has my respect as a specialist (no quotes).

 

[StIGMA]

Related question, if you were interviewing somebody for a subspecialty academic position how would you evaluate their disease site competence out of residency.

Evaluate them as you otherwise would, and if you would like to work with them, plan to provide the experience/advice/training/networking over their first year+ until they are good. Wouldn't call someone a specialist until they have seen 500+ cases in that disease site (while learning from an experienced radonc/subspecialists in surgery/medonc), at least 100 cases/year for the major sites.

 

[Haybrant]

i hired someone w experience without really understanding the persons competence so i have some reservations but we'll see how it goes. I do think having someone do a tumor board and actually answering questions could be a helpful guage of what someone is like. I dont think blocks is crazy as long as it is done in a nice manner - like oh this just happens to be a case im working on would love to see what you think. As opposed to a preset exam scenario. You never know the history of the group and their personnel issues. The context matters in terms of how it was done

 

[NotMattSpraker]

Evaluate them as you otherwise would, and if you would like to work with them, plan to provide the experience/advice/training/networking over their first year+ until they are good. Wouldn't call someone a specialist until they have seen 500+ cases in that disease site (while learning from an experienced radonc/subspecialists in surgery/medonc), at least 100 cases/year for the major sites.

500+ cases is about what is required across all disease sites to become BE in Rad Onc.

I do think it is impossible for a generalist to have subspecialty level knowledge of every cancer type these days, but also find subspecialists to greatly overestimate their clinically relevant expertise.

I am saying this as a recovered subspecialist.

I agree with the networking part. The real value of a subspecialist is that they come with a subspecialty multi-D team.

 

[Gfunk6]

I’ve done many interviews over the last few years. The only clinical questions I ask are ones with multiple correct responses. I am more interested in their reasoning and how they would reapond to pressure by referrings to do potentially wrong things.

The best candidates give sound reasoning and are tactful with referrings. The wouldn’t do wrong clinical things because of pressure but at the same time they wouldn’t belittle the referrings or push back very hard.

 

[ramsesthenice]

I’ve done many interviews over the last few years. The only clinical questions I ask are ones with multiple correct responses. I am more interested in their reasoning and how they would reapond to pressure by referrings to do potentially wrong things.

The best candidates give sound reasoning and are tactful with referrings. The wouldn’t do wrong clinical things because of pressure but at the same time they wouldn’t belittle the referrings or push back very hard.

Ditto. For new grads, I also like to ask it in a “how are they approaching x disease at your institution. Everyone, or do the med oncs have a different approach?” framework. I’m getting to your general knowledge base but without just saying tell me what you know.

 

[udrag14]

Ditto. For new grads, I also like to ask it in a “how are they approaching x disease at your institution. Everyone, or do the med oncs have a different approach?” framework. I’m getting to your general knowledge base but without just saying tell me what you know.

This is a normal question especially if you are applying for a specific disease site.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I mean I think rad oncs should know how to do that yeah but definitely a weird situation to be asked it as part of a job interview. Would probably not be enthusiastic to work at a place like that....

 

[ramsesthenice]

I mean I think rad oncs should know how to do that yeah but definitely a weird situation to be asked it as part of a job interview. Would probably not be enthusiastic to work at a place like that....

It’s hard to know from the info given and maybe they asked for more, but to me, the bigger red flag would be if the tester really felt like this was what makes a rad onc competent. Sure, if they can’t draw a block we have a problem, but great, even if they can do an IMRT plan from start to finish without dosimetry, that’s not most of the doing of a rad onc day to day. Or the hard part for that matter. It’s just strikes me as ….odd