Radiology 2012 applicants

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No love from Penn today.

Don't know if my app wasn't strong enough or regional bias or lack of med school pedigree or combo of all 3. Glad I ended up applying to 45 programs. No love from Penn, Wake, UVA, or Michigan. Too early to tell if it's the randonmess or if the holes in my app are overshadowing the strengths
 
2012mdc said:
No love from Penn today.

Don't know if my app wasn't strong enough or regional bias or lack of med school pedigree or combo of all 3. Glad I ended up applying to 45 programs. No love from Penn, Wake, UVA, or Michigan. Too early to tell if it's the randonmess or if the holes in my app are overshadowing the strengths
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You got an invite from a top program already so obviously you're at least being considered. I've just decided to be patient with it all. Just think about it this way, the top 20 programs will take about 175-200 residents, with 260+ and aoa, do you really think you're outside of the top 200 applicants for rads? I didn't think so.
 
2012mdc said:
No love from Penn today.

Don't know if my app wasn't strong enough or regional bias or lack of med school pedigree or combo of all 3. Glad I ended up applying to 45 programs. No love from Penn, Wake, UVA, or Michigan. Too early to tell if it's the randonmess or if the holes in my app are overshadowing the strengths
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They loved your app but then saw that you were a lakers fan and went EW and burned them all!
 
Besides, you aren't rejected from any of those programs IIRC.
 
2012mdc said:
No love from Penn today.

Don't know if my app wasn't strong enough or regional bias or lack of med school pedigree or combo of all 3. Glad I ended up applying to 45 programs. No love from Penn, Wake, UVA, or Michigan. Too early to tell if it's the randonmess or if the holes in my app are overshadowing the strengths
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Ditto... pretty much down to how i feel and the schools I got no love to. Man, talk about a humbling experience.
 
I created the google doc. send me a PM if you want to be added. Use the title "google doc" and put your gmail addy in the message. I'll start adding people at the end of the week.

I am using my spam account that does not have my real name attached to my account. I suggest you do the same, if you want to know who someone is if you guys are interviewing on the same day, it's best to do that by privately asking them.
 
Pretty sure some of these programs will be sending out more invites- i wouldn't freak out yet.

And I could be wrong but I dont think that there were anywhere close to 200 260 plus step 1 scores, and im positive not all of them are applying to rads...
 
jahbrony said:
+2.

Just so you guys don't feel like you're alone, I'll be pretty honest about my app. So I also was rejected from Mayo. No invite from Penn today. I am what I would consider a strong applicant, at least on paper (you can look at my post history for details if interested), so I'm not sure why I've gotten a few top tier invites but not others. Seems random. But perhaps my less than prestigious med school and geographic location have some role

. I will say that as soon as I updated my AOA status, I received an invite from a place on what seemed like an "off day" for this program to send invites, at least according to auntminnie. So, it seemed like they screened by AOA status, or that was the deal breaker until I had it.

I have also not heard from UVA or Wake. However, I was notified that my app was now under review at both places, despite being complete since day one. So, hang tight if you haven't heard from them yet. They're still sending waves out.

Also, sounds like Iowa will be sending invites out this week, if you applied there.
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Quick question... when i "track my application" my transcripts, photo, and eras application show updated dates for "available on eras"? I checked out my friend's eras in relation to when schools download his app, but his hasn't changed from 9/2/2011. Mine has changed to today at 7:30 pm. I'm kind of confused... anyone have any input on this?

I guess more relevant to your post: how do you know you're "under review?"
 
I can't reiterate enough how much people need to chill. If it's dec 11 and you don't have interviews, fine. It's f-ing October people.
 
sexyman said:
Pretty sure some of these programs will be sending out more invites- i wouldn't freak out yet.

And I could be wrong but I dont think that there were anywhere close to 200 260 plus step 1 scores, and im positive not all of them are applying to rads...
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There's much more than 200 260+ step scorers overall but I think in 2011 the numbr doing rads was around 100 something. AOA percentage in the high 20's.

I honestly have no idea how much stuff besides step 1 and AOA matter and that's why I don't seem as confident about my app strength as many expect me to. Nobody did rads at my school last year and no one from my school has matched a top 10 rads program since I've been there.
 
2012mdc said:
There's much more than 200 260+ step scorers overall but I think in 2011 the numbr doing rads was around 100 something. AOA percentage in the high 20's.
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I think it's more like 60, according to what someone said either here or AM. It might be more this year, who knows.

I honestly have no idea how much stuff besides step 1 and AOA matter and that's why I don't seem as confident about my app strength as many expect me to. Nobody did rads at my school last year and no one from my school has matched a top 10 rads program since I've been there.
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I think pedigree matters but not that much. You're going to match somewhere good, I wouldn't sweat it, you'll have a lot of interviews by the end of the month.
 
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Radiculous said:
Just checked my CS score report...... took forever to load.... damn near syncoped waiting for it. Thank God that crap is over.
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Step2cs is a total lose-lose for applicants. It's one of those things that could absolutely sink an otherwise stellar applicant if they fail it, but if they pass, it means absolutely nothing. One of the dumbest hoops we've had to jump through yet.
 
drizzt3117 said:
Ugh I have to schedule that thing yet 🙁
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In order to get a Step 2 CS result in December, according to the 2011 reporting schedule you will need to take the exam before November 5th (exams taken before then, results will be reported on December 7th, 2011). If you take it from Nov. 6 through Dec. 31, you won't get your result until Feb 1, 2012 or later. UCSF states on their website that they hold their rank meeting in late January. Unless you take CS before November 5th, you will not have your results in time for their rank meeting, and they require it to rank you. You did an away rotation at UCSF and have the credentials to get an interview and potentially match there, so I assume this is relevant information for you. Step 2 CS dates are often booked up several months in advance. I would get on that ASAP.
 
jahbrony said:
Step2cs is a total lose-lose for applicants. It's one of those things that could absolutely sink an otherwise stellar applicant if they fail it, but if they pass, it means absolutely nothing. One of the dumbest hoops we've had to jump through yet.
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Correct. Even though I passed it without difficulty, Step 2 CS has been the biggest waste of time and source of unnecessary anxiety in my entire medical school career.

As for interviews - I've gotten several top interviews but got flat rejected at UAB today. Such is life.
 
Radiculous said:
Correct. Even though I passed it without difficulty, Step 2 CS has been the biggest waste of time and source of unnecessary anxiety in my entire medical school career.

As for interviews - I've gotten several top interviews but got flat rejected at UAB today. Such is life.
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Don't forget, it was a big waste of money too!
 
killinsound said:
Ditto'd.
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I was really surprised by one of my classmates not getting an invite. He's born and bred in the South and wasn't some 270s/AOA/10 pubs/cured cancer applicant that would use them as a backup.

I thought I would get some love being at a Southern med school but I guess not. Just the first of many and it didn't anger me as much as I thought it would. Hopefully I'm starting to become less neurotic/insane about this process
 
2012mdc said:
I was really surprised by one of my classmates not getting an invite. He's born and bred in the South and wasn't some 270s/AOA/10 pubs/cured cancer applicant that would use them as a backup.

I thought I would get some love being at a Southern med school but I guess not. Just the first of many and it didn't anger me as much as I thought it would. Hopefully I'm starting to become less neurotic/insane about this process
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I didn't feel so bad after I saw their resident list. Every single resident from the south.

2012mdc - I think you are my applicant twin.
 
killinsound said:
I didn't feel so bad after I saw their resident list. Every single resident from the south.

2012mdc - I think you are my applicant twin.
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Seems like there are good number of Cali-exiles with good stats looking to go back to Cali for residency. Good luck and maybe we'll run into each other on the traik
 
Seems like a lot of interview invites are being sent out now. When should you start freaking out if you are not getting enough?
 
blanketlights11 said:
Seems like a lot of interview invites are being sent out now. When should you start freaking out if you are not getting enough?
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I'd say it depends on which programs you applied to. I only have 2 right now (both which didn't come until this month) but I'd say only around ~10-15 of the 45 programs I applied to have sent out invites. Many of the programs that have only sent 1 wave and typically send out more. I've only given up hope on few programs that have given out multiple waves.

I was freaking out before because it seemed like everyone and their mama got multiple invites before I got even one. Just two invites (high quality programs though) have me completely changing my tune.

I would say if the majority of programs you applied to send out invites pre-MSPE then the end of October/early November is the time to start really counting interviews. But if you're heavy on the coasts you might not hear much of anything until early to mid November.
 
blanketlights11 said:
Seems like a lot of interview invites are being sent out now. When should you start freaking out if you are not getting enough?
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I did a quick count on AM and there are about 80 who have started inviting people and aren't there like 180 something programs total? Prolly still to early to worry since there's more to come and people will be dropping IVs as they get more, so those will open up. Right now I think most people are accepting every invite, even though they're not that interested, until something better comes along or funds run short.
 
Radiculous said:
In order to get a Step 2 CS result in December, according to the 2011 reporting schedule you will need to take the exam before November 5th (exams taken before then, results will be reported on December 7th, 2011). If you take it from Nov. 6 through Dec. 31, you won't get your result until Feb 1, 2012 or later. UCSF states on their website that they hold their rank meeting in late January. Unless you take CS before November 5th, you will not have your results in time for their rank meeting, and they require it to rank you. You did an away rotation at UCSF and have the credentials to get an interview and potentially match there, so I assume this is relevant information for you. Step 2 CS dates are often booked up several months in advance. I would get on that ASAP.
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So $700 for a plane ticket to f-ing Houston later, I'm taking step 2 cs Monday... Hopefully I pass this sht. I guess I'll have to deal with it if mgh doesn't like me not having step 2 cs/ck scores until dec.
 
drizzt3117 said:
So $700 for a plane ticket to f-ing Houston later, I'm taking step 2 cs Monday... Hopefully I pass this sht. I guess I'll have to deal with it if mgh doesn't like me not having step 2 cs/ck scores until dec.
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Read through First Aid CS. Have a "script" that you follow for each encounter to ensure that you get all the stupid points even if you aren't sure what's going on. Keep the physical exam to a minimum, the checkboxes are heavily weighted toward history, review of symptoms. Heart and lungs on pretty much everybody, then focus on the relevant organ system. Don't screw with the blood pressure cuff or do anything fancy like orthostatics or dix-hallpike, though you can mention and put in your note). Always counsel (potential areas: smoking, drugs, alcohol, sex, domestic violence including elder abuse, lifestyle modifications (diet/exercise/etc.), financial stressors) -- just find some BS to talk about. Always close. Practice on a dummy, timing is the most important thing.

I find it really hard to believe that MGH would require that everyone have both their Step 2 scores in hand to get an INTERVIEW. UCSF is the only place that requests to RANK, so requesting for an interview invitation is even more ridiculous.
 
Thanks for the advice, time to cram, luckily my school has a in-house (but harder) version of cs we had to do in June (66% of the class has to remediate at least part of it) so that helps me be somewhat prepared, since I passed that the first time.

I agree about that, I guess I'm not surprised about mgh given my experience with them to date, hms programs have a lot of hoop jumping in general, it's not mgh specific so much.

Radiculous said:
Read through First Aid CS. Have a "script" that you follow for each encounter to ensure that you get all the stupid points even if you aren't sure what's going on. Keep the physical exam to a minimum, the checkboxes are heavily weighted toward history, review of symptoms. Heart and lungs on pretty much everybody, then focus on the relevant organ system. Don't screw with the blood pressure cuff or do anything fancy like orthostatics or dix-hallpike, though you can mention and put in your note). Always counsel (potential areas: smoking, drugs, alcohol, sex, domestic violence including elder abuse, lifestyle modifications (diet/exercise/etc.), financial stressors) -- just find some BS to talk about. Always close. Practice on a dummy, timing is the most important thing.

I find it really hard to believe that MGH would require that everyone have both their Step 2 scores in hand to get an INTERVIEW. UCSF is the only place that requests to RANK, so requesting for an interview invitation is even more ridiculous.
Click to expand...
 
Radiculous said:
Read through First Aid CS. Have a "script" that you follow for each encounter to ensure that you get all the stupid points even if you aren't sure what's going on. Keep the physical exam to a minimum, the checkboxes are heavily weighted toward history, review of symptoms. Heart and lungs on pretty much everybody, then focus on the relevant organ system. Don't screw with the blood pressure cuff or do anything fancy like orthostatics or dix-hallpike, though you can mention and put in your note). Always counsel (potential areas: smoking, drugs, alcohol, sex, domestic violence including elder abuse, lifestyle modifications (diet/exercise/etc.), financial stressors) -- just find some BS to talk about. Always close. Practice on a dummy, timing is the most important thing.

I find it really hard to believe that MGH would require that everyone have both their Step 2 scores in hand to get an INTERVIEW. UCSF is the only place that requests to RANK, so requesting for an interview invitation is even more ridiculous.
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I wish I knew if I was going to get an interview at UCSF or not right now. I don't want the hassle of moving it up (don't even know if I can right now because the site is down) if I'm not even going to get an invite
 
From my internet lurking, it seems pretty clear that you need to be a CA resident, and/or do an away rotation and impressed, and/or have a personal tie (LOR from a former prominent UCSF rads faculty for example) or otherwise have some distinguishing characteristic to get an interview at UCSF ON TOP OF scores, grades, research, the whole package. DrizzT basically doubled down likely knowing this and gunning for the tip-top places by doing aways at both Brigham and UCSF, both notoriously stingy with interviews, to try and nab a spot (250s step 1 and a midwest state school, AOA and generous research aside, would be a questionable proposition for UCSF which is inundated with 260s and 270s MD/PhDs some of whom grew up in California), so after an investment of that magnitude it makes sense in his case to move it up. I was just trying to help him since he went through the trouble of an away and has the ridiculous research credentials to make a go for UCSF. I'm not sure if it's worth spending a ton of money if you are just generically praying to get back to california in some form or fashion, even if you are from cali, unless you have a ridiculous resume to back it up. It's not even clear that you absolutely have to take it before Nov. 5 -- maybe they will have the rank meeting in Late January but will tentatively rank some individuals with pending scores and let people have the opportunity to send in their CS/CK pass up until they actually have to submit the rank list in late February -- in which case getting you scores back on February 1st would be fine. The bottom line is we don't know how they do it, and when they have so many qualified applicants it's easier for them to just not rank (or even not interview) the person who they're worried about pending Step 2 scores because of the GME requirement of that institution.
 
Radiculous said:
From my internet lurking, it seems pretty clear that you need to be a CA resident, and/or do an away rotation and impressed, and/or have a personal tie (LOR from a former prominent UCSF rads faculty for example) or otherwise have some distinguishing characteristic to get an interview at UCSF ON TOP OF scores, grades, research, the whole package. DrizzT basically doubled down likely knowing this and gunning for the tip-top places by doing aways at both Brigham and UCSF, both notoriously stingy with interviews, to try and nab a spot (250s step 1 and a midwest state school, AOA and generous research aside, would be a questionable proposition for UCSF which is inundated with 260s and 270s MD/PhDs some of whom grew up in California), so after an investment of that magnitude it makes sense in his case to move it up. I was just trying to help him since he went through the trouble of an away and has the ridiculous research credentials to make a go for UCSF. I'm not sure if it's worth spending a ton of money if you are just generically praying to get back to california in some form or fashion, even if you are from cali, unless you have a ridiculous resume to back it up. It's not even clear that you absolutely have to take it before Nov. 5 -- maybe they will have the rank meeting in Late January but will tentatively rank some individuals with pending scores and let people have the opportunity to send in their CS/CK pass up until they actually have to submit the rank list in late February -- in which case getting you scores back on February 1st would be fine. The bottom line is we don't know how they do it, and when they have so many qualified applicants it's easier for them to just not rank (or even not interview) the person who they're worried about pending Step 2 scores because of the GME requirement of that institution.
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Well I am a California resident, just not in Cali for med school. 260 and AOA but lacking significant research. Also doing an away at UCSF currently. I know my shot is still slim at best because it's just so damn competitive. Thankfully I live in one of the cities that does CS so I wouldn't have to worry about flight expense, just available dates.

There's no guarantee that your scores will be in Feb 1st, they could come in as late as Feb 22nd, which coincidentally is the deadline for ROL certification.

The only reason I have CS as late as I do is that I wanted to take it after CK so that knowledge would be fresh and it wouldn't cut into CK time. But I can possibly push back CK (to my currently scheduled CS date) if I have to.
 
If you are 260/AOA and a CA resident and doing an away rotation at UCSF, then by all means you should move it up.
 
drizzt3117 said:
Thanks for the advice, time to cram, luckily my school has a in-house (but harder) version of cs we had to do in June (66% of the class has to remediate at least part of it) so that helps me be somewhat prepared, since I passed that the first time.

I agree about that, I guess I'm not surprised about mgh given my experience with them to date, hms programs have a lot of hoop jumping in general, it's not mgh specific so much.
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My school has a overbearing inhouse as well.. I somehow got the 5th lowest grade in my entire class (prob cuz i didnt take it seriously, i dunno).. .but long story short, i read about 45% of FA and got my score back with all the bars on the above average side.

The real thing is way easy, if you can polite, hit most 'reasonable' points, and stick to the chief complaint, you will pass. After seeing my score, and having felt the way I did when I left the center, I think the only way you can fail this test is if you moon the patients, cant speak english, or physically assault a testing center official.
 
A poster on this forum (will let them remain anonymous if they want) PM'ed me after they saw a post on AM and it got me thinking.

Stats - 260, AOA, no research, low tier school in the South, permanent address in Cali. 2 aways at Emory (adopted home program) and 1 at UCSF (shoot for the stars)

Applied to 45 programs (almost all university based) all over the country with the West and South having the highest number. App complete and submitted except LOR's on September 1st. 3rd clinical letter was in around September 15th and 1st and only rads letter was in around September 22nd.

Invites - Pitt, UTSW (Pitt received last week, UTSW this week)

Rejections - UAB

Nothing heard - Penn, MIR, UVA, Wake, UNC, Florida, Miami, Michigan, UT Houston, Baylor Dallas, MUSC.

Intern years - good news from UCLA Harbor, Einstein Philly, and Northshore Chicago TY's. Rejected from Kaiser LA IM. Nothing from TY's at Arrowhead, Santa Clara, Resurrection, and Methodist Houston.

So I'm 2 for 14 on rads programs that have sent out invites but 2 quality programs and only 1 rejection. Is it too early to worry? 14/45 is a decent sample size but it's hard to know which of those programs have rejected me outright. Been having better luck with the TY's.

I see all these ppl on AM ranging from a handful to a boatload of invites. I know it's only Mid October but 2/14 is kind of concerning when I think about it. Not freaking out like I was when I had nothing but the PM did get me thinking.

Regionality at play? Not getting Southern love bc I'm from Cali and they assume I want to go back? No love from the elite programs because of no research and/or lack of med school pedigree? No love from the mid tier because they assume they are low on my list?

I know this process is random and none of the schools that I haven't heard from are in my ideal/shoot for the stars top 10 (Penn probably the closest) but I thought I should have more at this point after thinking about it.
 
Dumb said:
Yup, this sort of elegant analysis is right on. Any process that seems random or arbitrary usually simply involves too many factors of unknown significance. Nothing in the application process seems to be truly random or arbitrary. I would also add that programs tend not to send rejection letters because applicants may reply to them. Lack of MSPE release is likely responsible for your not hearing from your top picks. If they have already invited and rejected others, then you are on the interview wait list, so to speak.

As far as being worried, if you look at the match statistics with your scores, you are practically locked. Granted you only have 2 interviews so far, but come ranking time, people of course rely most on hard data (regardless of crappy predictive value). :luck:
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Yeah my top picks are all coastal programs except for a few. I'm not worried about not hearing from them yet bc no one has heard from them yet and they don't send stuff until after MSPE. More concerned about not getting invites from programs I thought I was competitive at. It's still really early but I just don't know what to make of it. I'm not worried about matching. I just posted my situation to see what others thought about it and if they were any others in a similar one.
 
Penn, MIR, Michigan: lack of research and low tier school may be enough to ding you at the "research powerhouses." Michigan is also highly regional.
UT Houston, Baylor Dallas: Texas is highly regional. UTSW is a well regarded institution which isn't quite as heavily into research vs. clinical mission, which may be why they thought you were a good fit.
UAB - yield protect based on numbers
Wake, UVA, UNC, MUSC - this is what is most concerning to me. they are in your region, well regarded enough to not conceivably "yield protect" someone unless they had a resume like Jesus, not especially fixated on research. Maybe southern schools instictively recoil from anyone with hard california ties because they know you're trying desperately to get AWAY from the South.
Add to all of this: the RNG / randomness factor. Not having your one rads letter in until late September preventing you from get a solid look from Wake, UVA, etc. that send out a lot of invites early. Who knows? Also: quality of LORs and personal statement, how low does "low-tier" mean -- like it or not, going to the U. South Alabama for example is possibly going to hamper your dreams of attending big-name programs, since PDs are human beings and like to boast about which institutions their residents came from. This varies from program to program, some truly don't care but there are definitely programs that seem to go straight for the big name med schools -- don't blame the messenger this is just the world we live in. So many things could be at play.


However, you got Pitt and UTSW, so it's hard to think you have a red flag in your application.

I think you're in good shape, it's just amazing to me that someone with an application like yours could only have two rads interviews at this point after applying broadly due to a number of "intangible" factors.

I would PM Dr. TLM on AM and ask his opinion. He's seen it all and can give you a good idea of where you stand.


2012mdc said:
A poster on this forum (will let them remain anonymous if they want) PM'ed me after they saw a post on AM and it got me thinking.

Stats - 260, AOA, no research, low tier school in the South, permanent address in Cali. 2 aways at Emory (adopted home program) and 1 at UCSF (shoot for the stars)

Applied to 45 programs (almost all university based) all over the country with the West and South having the highest number. App complete and submitted except LOR's on September 1st. 3rd clinical letter was in around September 15th and 1st and only rads letter was in around September 22nd.

Invites - Pitt, UTSW (Pitt received last week, UTSW this week)

Rejections - UAB

Nothing heard - Penn, MIR, UVA, Wake, UNC, Florida, Miami, Michigan, UT Houston, Baylor Dallas, MUSC.

Intern years - good news from UCLA Harbor, Einstein Philly, and Northshore Chicago TY's. Rejected from Kaiser LA IM. Nothing from TY's at Arrowhead, Santa Clara, Resurrection, and Methodist Houston.

So I'm 2 for 14 on rads programs that have sent out invites but 2 quality programs and only 1 rejection. Is it too early to worry? 14/45 is a decent sample size but it's hard to know which of those programs have rejected me outright. Been having better luck with the TY's.

I see all these ppl on AM ranging from a handful to a boatload of invites. I know it's only Mid October but 2/14 is kind of concerning when I think about it. Not freaking out like I was when I had nothing but the PM did get me thinking.

Regionality at play? Not getting Southern love bc I'm from Cali and they assume I want to go back? No love from the elite programs because of no research and/or lack of med school pedigree? No love from the mid tier because they assume they are low on my list?

I know this process is random and none of the schools that I haven't heard from are in my ideal/shoot for the stars top 10 (Penn probably the closest) but I thought I should have more at this point after thinking about it.
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killinsound said:
Anyone want to e-mail ucsf? : )
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UCSF states explicitly on their website that both parts of Step 2 must be passed before rank lists are submitted, which occurs in February. This is rigid because it's a policy that has now been effect for all GME programs at UCSF for several years (there was flexibility the first year it was implemented I believe). They have their ranking meeting in late January directly per website, so if you don't have your Step 2 sent by then you are basically asking for special treatment or to be "tentatively ranked" when they don't know whether you will ultimately pass. Hard to tempt fate like that when they have hundreds of people clamoring to go there, don't you think? Move it up if you can.

I have zero california ties, didn't do an away, etc. so despite having a raw application that would be competitive for UCSF/etc. I fully expect to be passed over for people who worship the Bay Area and have done six aways / pre-emptively decorated a condo in the area. I respect that tenacity and those folks deserve it.
 
Dumb said:
Hey, as an aside, when were you rejected from Kaiser LA prelim IM? I was expecting a rejection from them since I have never lived in Cali so the e-mail may have gotten caught in my filter. 😳
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October 10th.

Did you receive the original email

"Thank you for your recent application to Kaiser Permanente's Internal Medicine - Preliminary Residency Program Los Angeles. We will begin notifying applicants in October of their application status"

after you applied? I got one on September 9th
 
2012mdc said:
October 10th.

Did you receive the original email

"Thank you for your recent application to Kaiser Permanente's Internal Medicine - Preliminary Residency Program Los Angeles. We will begin notifying applicants in October of their application status"

after you applied? I got one on September 9th
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When December 1 comes around and you have to tell me how many interview offers you got, I am going to be quite smug. Hopefully I'll come across you in the trail so I can be smug in person (but away from anyway else, lest they see it(!) happen).

I'm anxiously awaiting anything from UVA, where I desperately want to interview.
 
That was weird, interview invite on Sunday afternoon.
 
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