Radiology Fellowship Options/Alternatives

[radsfellow]

I'm interested in fellowship. I like the idea of advancing your knowledge and becoming a subspecialist. I'm interested in academics even though there might be a paycut.

However, it's hard for me to imagine going on for another year/two-years at resident pay (or sub-resident pay sometimes...!). I'm getting really frustrated with resident lifestyle and I am a bit older.

Is there any alternative to the traditional fellowship?

I don't see myself moonlighting on top of fellowship responsibilities and call. Are there fellowships for example that allow you to charge as an attending when you do calls overnight? I don't mind going anywhere, in the US or internationally. If there are "cush" fellowships available, please message me. Right now, I see myself in all of the fields of radiology. It would be more about getting my own niche in it.

Please PM if you prefer to.

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[redoitall]

I don't know about attending salary. I am not familiar with the possibility to read for PP while in fellowship, although perhaps some people have been able to do so, particularly telerad or night hawk, bu this is not something I have come across.
I know however that VA hospital tend to offer good opportunities, with relatively good salaries per shift. So if you can go to an institution with access to a local VA, that might be a possibility.

 

[MadRadLad]

Some fellowships do pay a little extra and have you perform independent sign offs on plain films or various evening/night call. I think they have to be non-ACGME accredited to be able to do this. You will not be making close to true attending money though unless you aggressively moonlight and this may not be feasible based on availability and how demanding the fellowship is.

 

[radsfellow]

Some fellowships do pay a little extra and have you perform independent sign offs on plain films or various evening/night call. I think they have to be non-ACGME accredited to be able to do this. You will not be making close to true attending money though unless you aggressively moonlight and this may not be feasible based on availability and how demanding the fellowship is.

Thanks. Do you know how much extra money is possible and how much of a grind it is? I'm certainly not looking for a 300 000$ gig, but would like to start living my life while I still have a breath of youth and start to stop freaking out about crippling loans. Are there any well-known cush programs where you can both just enjoy learning and have some available time to crank out a few X-rays/CTs? Again, please PM if you want to.

 

[Dave1980]

I heard UPenn abdominal imaging is relatively cush. I know someone who didn't take it because he didn't think the volume was high enough. You can use vacation and cover overnight shifts which is pretty lucrative if you want to give up a week or two of vacation.

 

[redoitall]

I was wondering about telerad options on the week-ends? Anyone ever heard of something like that where you could do telerad when not on call, during week-ends, nights or days?????

 

[Dave1980]

I was wondering about telerad options on the week-ends? Anyone ever heard of something like that where you could do telerad when not on call, during week-ends, nights or days?????

If you can commit to 2 full weekends a month this might a possibility although that still might not be worth the cost of them bringing you on board. Of course you would likely burn out pretty quick.

 

[redoitall]

If you can commit to 2 full weekends a month this might a possibility although that still might not be worth the cost of them bringing you on board. Of course you would likely burn out pretty quick.

Indeed. It seems that it would be difficult over the course of a year. But if they was some flexibility built in, like 1 day a week or a few hours every evening (say like 2hr) or something like that, that would be a bit more manageable. The ideal situation is "just hop on the list whenever you want". Now that would be epic... But unlikely I suppose.

 

[Dave1980]

I'm talked to a few telerad people and they won't set you up without a significant time commitment. They usually want something like 4 8 hour shifts a week minimum

 

[redoitall]

They usually want something like 4 8 hour shifts a week minimum

Jeez 4x8h shifts a week? That's a second job. No that's way too much. As a father for one, and a fellow at that time, I don't see how this is doable. Well never mind then. Will try to moonlight local VA here and there. But 4 times a week at 8h a week, really not reasonable. One could argue 1 maybe 2 tops and that would be stretch...
Thanks for the info though. Very useful.

 

[Dave1980]

Jeez 4x8h shifts a week? That's a second job. No that's way too much. As a father for one, and a fellow at that time, I don't see how this is doable. Well never mind then. Will try to moonlight local VA here and there. But 4 times a week at 8h a week, really not reasonable. One could argue 1 maybe 2 tops and that would be stretch...
Thanks for the info though. Very useful.

Oops! I meant a month!

 

[redoitall]

Oops! I meant a month!

Ah that changes everything then. At 4 shift a month, I think I can do that given my current call schedule. My residency program is very heavy on call unfortunately, like 4 months of night per year heavy plus week-ends and evening shifts. On top of it, I still do a bit of moonlighting, not uncommon to be on 6 days a week here and occasionally 7. I can totally see that as a possibility. I would have to see if telerad is better that local VA moonlighting though.

 

[thatsrad]

If you just skip fellowship and take an attending job, then you can moonlight internally and still work less than a fellow.

Assuming you’re not too picky where you live.

 

[redoitall]

If you just skip fellowship and take an attending job, then you can moonlight internally and still work less than a fellow.

That's my choice there, but now it seems that most people argue that a fellowship is the way to go. However, given that
1) I don't care where I live
2) I am willing to take night jobs - ER type as long as it is a 2 weeks on/off (or better yet 1 week on/2weeks off)
I was thinking that perhaps I'd find a job without a fellowship.
The other major issue with fellowship is that applications start soon (about now). So most of us kind of feel trapped and would have to roll the dice early on.
But if I was able to find a job now (which is not realistic given that I have two more years of residency), man, I would skip fellowship in a heartbeat

 

[PhysMatMan]

I don't know how the market is doing right now, but when I interviewed for residency, some residents had their job and fellowship lined up 2 years out. Just because you apply to fellowship, doesn't mean you have to match. I definitely knew of a bunch of residents going to the VA or doing just general. Fellowship is a safer bet, but general was becoming a viable option at least pre-covid.

 

[redoitall]

I don't know how the market is doing right now, but when I interviewed for residency, some residents had their job and fellowship lined up 2 years out. Just because you apply to fellowship, doesn't mean you have to match. I definitely knew of a bunch of residents going to the VA or doing just general. Fellowship is a safer bet, but general was becoming a viable option at least pre-covid.

I hope this COVID situation will be taken care of sooner than later. I am dying to work. Psychologically another year of training could prove intolerable...

 

[colbgw02]

There are some academic institutions who are desperate enough for warm bodies that they have agreed to designate the R4 year as a "fellowship" in exchange for the resident to stay on as faculty after graduation for a predetermined length of time. I have seen this for both breast and body imaging, but it's a non-starter for any accredited fellowship. The exception is nucs, where the fellowship requirements can be met during the R4 year.

If that's not an option for you, then the situation that best fits your desires is a large(r) private practice group that offers a "fellowship", with the understanding that you will enter a partnership track after they "train" you. This is uncommon and I've only ever seen it for breast imaging.

If you end up on a more traditional fellowship path, then your best bet to supplement your income may be to locate nearby private practices who are looking for PRN coverage. In-house moonlighting is often times an option, but - again - you may run into roadblocks if you're in an accredited fellowship.

The administrative hurdles for almost all teleradiology or VA position are substantial. It would be unusual for someone to bother hiring/credentialing/privileging a fellow who can only work occasionally and offers no assurance of sticking around after a year.