Radiology vs. Anesthesia: Whose future is more uncertain?

[SandP]

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Rads: who knows how the job market will be in 6-7 years, AI, teleradiology
Anesthesia: cRNAs, machines (Watson)
Which do you think is more vulnerable? Why?

 

[Maxamillion12]

There was a guy in the other thread that said rads will be obliterated in 5 years. Even now they said, AI is apparently already diagnosing things at rates vastly superior to radiologists.

 

[TheVagüs]

There was a guy in the other thread that said rads will be obliterated in 5 years. Even now they said, AI is apparently already diagnosing things at rates vastly superior to radiologists.

Gonna need to see some support for that one, my dude.

People have been espousing the wonders of AI for literally decades. Just imagine what else in society could be replaced if the entire job of a full trained radiologist could be automated. AI will disrupt medicine to some degree-I think everyone recognizes that, but nobody's job is going to be "obliterated." It's going to take a lot longer for these changes to occur than folks seem to think.

Notice that nobody actually in the field of radiology, both attendings or residents, seem to really give a **** about AI the way everybody else does.

To the OP, choosing a specialty based on speculating future supply and demand is a mistake. Anesthesiology is likely less vulnerable due to the hands on nature of the work, but like I said before, imagine the leaps and bounds in technology and implementation that sort of change would take. If that kind of complex job is at risk of being replaced, then the majority of jobs in modern society are at risk as well.

 

[DrWhozits]

Look into the year 2000, when the robotic anesthesiologists have taken over

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I guarantee you radiology will be thriving after 5 yrs. 20 yrs from now might be quite different. Not sure AI will be able to handle lung nodules as well as a radiologist. I think radiology has more to fear from outsourcing. Anesthesiology, like all of medicine has mid level competetion. Given a choice, I believe patients will choose to have a physician at the head of the table as opposed to a nurse or anesthesia tech.

 

[Oh_Gee]

I guarantee you radiology will be thriving after 5 yrs. 20 yrs from now might be quite different. Not sure AI will be able to handle lung nodules as well as a radiologist. I think radiology has more to fear from outsourcing. Anesthesiology, like all of medicine has mid level competetion. Given a choice, I believe patients will choose to have a physician at the head of the table as opposed to a nurse or anesthesia tech.

currently deciding between these 2. if you were a M4 in 2019, would you still choose radiology all over again?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Yes. If I was an M4 and wanted to go into radiology, I would. But I'm not a radiologist

 

[mrbreakfast]

Pick the specialty you would pick if every specialty were paid the exact same.

When I asked my med school friend why he was going into pathology, the "nightmare outlook" field, he told me "I don't care about that. I like doing this. I'd rather do this than make three times as much as a surgeon and hate my job."

 

[Sleepingdoc]

Pick a specialty you like.. not based on job market. Some people who are more reserved/do not like talking to others should do pathology rather than family medicine because they will have trouble in FM and dont fit in with FM... They should not choose FM just because the job market is better than path,

 

[forumname1]

I remember hearing that the medical laboratory was going to become obsolete and all the poor lab techs would be homeless on the streets. Didn't quite work out like it was portrayed since people tend to overestimate what technology actually can do or what people will let it do.

 

[Chemdude]

A lot of people think radiologists just look at images and spit out findings. Radiology is a lot more complex than that. We are far from AI being able to interpret a study to produce a full report autonomously without oversight. Most of the people perpetuating this myth are techies/data scientists/other medical specialists who have no idea what radiology is about. Even if we had autonomous AI, it would take years for it to be accepted from a regulation perspective. For example, a cardiologist needs to sign off on every EKG despite the available crappy "AI interpretation." And an EKG is a million times more simple than a portable chest xray...

Currently, there are a several simple AI algorithms that are being tested at a few institutions. These algorithms pertain to very mundane, basic tasks that a radiologist would gladly give up to improve efficiency. Tasks including pulmonary nodule followup, mass measurements, vessel measurements, etc. Nothing remotely close to feeding a computer images and getting "Impression: Acute Non-perforated Appendicitis" reply in a few milliseconds.

Again, non-radiologists tend to have an over-simplistic view of radiology. Radiology is one of the most complex fields in medicine. If we ever reach a point where radiology is replaced by AI, then all nonsurgical fields (excluding maybe pysch) will also be wiped out as well.

As for you question, other than the cool/chill personalities, radiology and anesthesiology are completely different; one is very hands on while the other is very cerebral. Choose your specialty based on what you'll enjoy doing rather then the expected job market. Nobody can predict what will happen in 7 years.

/rant

 

[Dave1980]

Radiology will not be replaced by AI anytime in the foreseeable future. Do what you like.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

A lot of people think radiologists just look at images and spit out findings. Radiology is a lot more complex than that. We are far from AI being able to interpret a study to produce a full report autonomously without oversight. Most of the people perpetuating this myth are techies/data scientists/other medical specialists who have no idea what radiology is about. Even if we had autonomous AI, it would take years for it to be accepted from a regulation perspective. For example, a cardiologist needs to sign off on every EKG despite the available crappy "AI interpretation." And an EKG is a million times more simple than a portable chest xray...

Currently, there are a several simple AI algorithms that are being tested at a few institutions. These algorithms pertain to very mundane, basic tasks that a radiologist would gladly give up to improve efficiency. Tasks including pulmonary nodule followup, mass measurements, vessel measurements, etc. Nothing remotely close to feeding a computer images and getting "Impression: Acute Non-perforated Appendicitis" reply in a few milliseconds.

Again, non-radiologists tend to have an over-simplistic view of radiology. Radiology is one of the most complex fields in medicine. If we ever reach a point where radiology is replaced by AI, then all nonsurgical fields (excluding maybe pysch) will also be wiped out as well.

As for you question, other than the cool/chill personalities, radiology and anesthesiology are completely different; one is very hands on while the other is very cerebral. Choose your specialty based on what you'll enjoy doing rather then the expected job market. Nobody can predict what will happen in 7 years.

/rant

Very cerebral and very lonely. Plus sitting all day is a health hazard

 

[Neopolymath]

Very cerebral and very lonely. Plus sitting all day is a health hazard

Standing desks and this a reading room not solitary confinement. jeez, have any of these people even been down to radiology dept???

 

[Kuratz]

Very cerebral and very lonely. Plus sitting all day is a health hazard

A day full of clinic is very social; it also sounds like the 9th circle of hell for a radiologist haha. Different strokes, plenty of social interaction between consultants and procedures that rads offers for me. The unfortunate reality of medicine is that a significant portion of any non-surgical day is spent sitting and typing into the EMR. (Can’t argue on the health hazards more specific for rads though).

As far as specialty choice: eventually you have to take a leap of faith into a field. Nothing has a perfect outlook. You should choose based on interest. Even something as seemingly untouchable like spine surgery could have reimbursement slashed by CMS and leave those who went in for the money sorely disappointed.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Standing desks and this a reading room not solitary confinement. jeez, have any of these people even been down to radiology dept???

MANY radiologists do not work in a boiler room environment, especially at outpatient centers where they work in cubicles. With teleradiography, groups often get spread out and only a handful of radiologist are at the hospital. Plus, a physician, (radiologist) has to be on site for any injections at the outpatient centers. Lastly, hardly anyone troops down to radiology anymore to review images. Hence my "lonley" remark, unless you count tumor board.

 

[kb1900]

Standing desks and this a reading room not solitary confinement. jeez, have any of these people even been down to radiology dept???

Yeah I will never understand the people that see sitting all day as an issue. Standing desks have been continually increasing in popularity for like over 5 years now. Pretty sure you can by a desk addon too for around $100 that just goes on a desk

 

[Neopolymath]

MANY radiologists do not work in a boiler room environment, especially at outpatient centers where they work in cubicles. With teleradiography, groups often get spread out and only a handful of radiologist are at the hospital. Plus, a physician, (radiologist) has to be on site for any injections at the outpatient centers. Lastly, hardly anyone troops down to radiology anymore to review images. Hence my "lonley" remark, unless you count tumor board.

Yes, and those docs are on the phone or in contact with people if they want to be. Like I said, they are not sitting in silence with everyone shunning them lol. People who are doing so generally choose to do so. If an individual does telerads and complains about lack of interaction I don't really have anything to say other than why did they do that to themselves?

 

[Chemdude]

Very cerebral and very lonely. Plus sitting all day is a health hazard

Loneliness/boredom is the last thing you'll be worried about as a radiologist. Most radiologists prefer to have minimal contact with patients and staff. We enjoy having an occasional interesting consult from a physician, but too many disruptions can kill your efficiency and make your job a lot more stressful. Stress can lead to burnout. Admittedly, burnout is higher than average in radiology.

Most radiology reading stations are adjustable and seats have become very ergonomic. If you want to read while standing you can. If you want to read with the lights on you can. Anecdotally, most of the radiologists I work with are relatively active and healthy. They also get considerable time off; the average private practice radiologist gets 10-12 weeks off a year. A lot of nighthawk positions are on a 1 week on, 2 weeks off model (you only work 17 weeks a year) making 400K+. So if you pace yourself and learn to deal with the stress, you'll be compensated well and given ample time to de-stress.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Loneliness/boredom is the last thing you'll be worried about as a radiologist. Most radiologists prefer to have minimal contact with patients and staff. We enjoy having an occasional interesting consult from a physician, but too many disruptions can kill your efficiency and make your job a lot more stressful. Stress can lead to burnout. Admittedly, burnout is higher than average in radiology.

Most radiology reading stations are adjustable and seats have become very ergonomic. If you want to read while standing you can. If you want to read with the lights on you can. Anecdotally, most of the radiologists I work with are relatively active and healthy. They also get considerable time off; the average private practice radiologist gets 10-12 weeks off a year. A lot of nighthawk positions are on a 1 week on, 2 weeks off model (you only work 17 weeks a year) making 400K+. So if you pace yourself and learn to deal with the stress, you'll be compensated well and given ample time to de-stress.

I never said boring, reading 150 studies a day is far from boring and is stressful due to productivity clauses. The healing from time off only lasts a few days at that pace. You want to exercise? Better get up at 0430 to get it in. You probably dont remember when the teaching service would all march down to radiology to review images with the experts. Anesthesia has more social interaction with peers and patients. But, things change. My guide in Beijing said "you get used to the pond you swim in" I would consider that amount of peer and patient contact unsatisfying .

 

[Chemdude]

I never said boring, reading 150 studies a day is far from boring and is stressful due to productivity clauses. The healing from time off only lasts a few days at that pace. You want to exercise? Better get up at 0430 to get it in. You probably dont remember when the teaching service would all march down to radiology to review images with the experts. Anesthesia has more social interaction with peers and patients. But, things change. My guide in Beijing said "you get used to the pond you swim in" I would consider that amount of peer and patient contact unsatisfying .

Radiology is not for everyone. Most people who go into radiology want very little patient contact. Most radiologists see the limited patient contact as a positive.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

There was a guy in the other thread that said rads will be obliterated in 5 years. Even now they said, AI is apparently already diagnosing things at rates vastly superior to radiologists.

Is that what you got out of that thread?

 

[Dave1980]

Someone called my office today. It was a wrong number. I feel exhausted by the amount of social interaction I've had.

 

[Ho0v-man]

OP you shouldn’t go into anything. You’ve made multiple threads like this asking the same questions over and over about the same 2-4 fields. No matter what you go into, you’ll eventually have to make decisions about stuff.

If you’re looking for permanently good job outlook, surgery or IM sub specialties is the way to go.

 

[Gurby]

OP you shouldn’t go into anything. You’ve made multiple threads like this asking the same questions over and over about the same 2-4 fields. No matter what you go into, you’ll eventually have to make decisions about stuff.

If you’re looking for permanently good job outlook, surgery or IM sub specialties is the way to go.

For what it's worth, as someone with both radiology and anesthesia on their short list of potential specialties, I've really enjoyed some of the conversation the threads have stirred up.