Radiology with 210 on Step 1...possible?

[miked12]

current 3rd year at a top 25 medical school. All "A" on clinical rotations, pre-clinical was all P/F, decent research background (3 publications, 4 presentations/posters, all non-radiology related), some leadership positions. Really concerned about my Step 1 score which was a 210. I'll definitely try to crush step 2 , but I was wondering if anyone knows of any programs that put less of an emphasis on step 1. I've gone through the matchedapplicants data and FREIDA but a lot of it is incomplete and the ranges aren't that helpful on FREIDA. Also, some of the step 1 cutoffs on FREIDA are in the 180s...which makes me think that they aren't updated. I also don't have any geographic limitations, but would ideally like to be in an academic setting (if that's even possible with a 210)

Anyway, I'd really appreciate any help or advice. Thanks in advance.

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[deleted564680]

You will be able to match somewhere, but if you want to get to an academic center that's not in a bad geographical location then you'll need to get 240+ on Step 2 I'd imagine. If you don't care about where you live though, there are plenty of solid academic centers out there that might take you.

The only way you wouldn't match is if all the programs screened you out but I doubt that their cut-off is 210 unless you're talking the top 40ish programs. Other people may know the answer to this better than me though.

The other thing is that rads might be a bit more competitive in the next few years since it seems to have hit its nadir.

 

[Radiologyreviews2015]

Definitely take Step 2 as early as possible and get 240+

Otherwise if your only red flag is the step 1 score, I think you will be able to match at a respectable program, especially in less desirable locations.

 

[greg1184]

I got into a medium sized academic program with a 214 in step 1, 229 in step 2. It is possible.

 

[Shifty B]

Some programs are going to screen everyone less than 220 or 230, so you may have a harder time getting interviews. You might benefit from choosing 1-2 appropriate target programs and doing audition rotations. Don't choose reach programs (MGH, UCSF), but mid-tier academic programs that you would really want to go to. This may help you make some connections which would get you past any USMLE screening at solid programs.

I would also recommend applying to more places than most because of said screening. Once you get to the interview, the programs are more likely to take a chance on you if all things are in order. If you get AOA, have all clinical honors, you have a good shot. It may also be helpful if you have a reasonable explanation for your step 1, even if it is that you didn't prepare for it because you didn't realize its importance in residency selection.

 

[miked12]

Appreciate all of your responses!

 

[InternationlDoc]

Apply broadly. You will be fine.

How does real life shake out?

Some people we thought were no good in high school run successful businesses while you are slaving away in medical school or residency. Some worked hard after barely making into an undergrad to go on and have succesful careers. A non AOA low score step 1'er becomes a dedicated resident and kicksass to land a good fellowship and off he/she goes to newer heights.

Be confident.

 

[Kyle Madison]

current 3rd year at a top 25 medical school. All "A" on clinical rotations, pre-clinical was all P/F, decent research background (3 publications, 4 presentations/posters, all non-radiology related), some leadership positions. Really concerned about my Step 1 score which was a 210. I'll definitely try to crush step 2 , but I was wondering if anyone knows of any programs that put less of an emphasis on step 1. I've gone through the matchedapplicants data and FREIDA but a lot of it is incomplete and the ranges aren't that helpful on FREIDA. Also, some of the step 1 cutoffs on FREIDA are in the 180s...which makes me think that they aren't updated. I also don't have any geographic limitations, but would ideally like to be in an academic setting (if that's even possible with a 210)

Anyway, I'd really appreciate any help or advice. Thanks in advance.

Hello Mike,

Could you please update us on the outcome of Matching to Rads this year?
Do you have a list of Rads programs that Low-score friendly?

I appreciate any feedback and advice

Thank you,

 

[MadRadLad]

Hello Mike,

Could you please update us on the outcome of Matching to Rads this year?
Do you have a list of Rads programs that Low-score friendly?

I appreciate any feedback and advice

Thank you,

Most smaller community programs in less desirable areas (midwest, south) will consider you. As will many mid-tier programs in the area. It is recruitment for them as much as it is stress for us. Apply broadly to community and low/mid tier academics and you should get some interviews. That is all you really need to sell yourself and the qualities you bring. Many programs would rather have a hard work, team player type who wants to be there rather than being a competitive applicant's 8th choice (heard this from multiple PDs).

Rads is getting more competitive but the lower tier places still struggle to attract good candidates, especially in more rural locations.

 

[MadRadLad]

Duplicate, please delete

 

[greg1184]

I got into a medium sized academic program with a 214 in step 1, 229 in step 2. It is possible.

I would like to add that I passed the Core exam with zero issue, have a fellowship lined up for July, and even had 3 early faculty job interviews.

USMLE can shove it.

 

[GadRads]

I would like to add that I passed the Core exam with zero issue, have a fellowship lined up for July, and even had 3 early faculty job interviews.

USMLE can shove it.

Congrats. How much did you study as a resident?

 

[GadRads]

.

 

[greg1184]

Congrats. How much did you study as a resident?

B&H year 1, too much call year 2.... then: The usual 6 months second half of third year. Used the appropriate books, did the appropriate qbanks. I did core study here and there the first half of the 3rd year focusing on filling in knowledge gaps. Otherwise, no different than anyone else.

I saw an article recently by David Yousem (author of neurorequisites) talking about Step 1 and neuro FELLOWSHIPS (~6 years later)! It is unbelievable how obsessed radiologists are of one score of one test taken one day in someone's life.

I know other people who failed the Core exam that probably have stellar Step scores. So much for correlation.

 

[masaraksh]

I would like to add that I passed the Core exam with zero issue, have a fellowship lined up for July, and even had 3 early faculty job interviews.

USMLE can shove it.

Awesome!

Just out of curiosity, is the Radiology Core exam reported as P/F or with scores/percentiles? Just curious since your shared 214/229 step1/2 are both below the median for each test, respectively so do you know if your Core performance was above or below the 50th %ile (not that its as comparable since the steps are taken by all med students and the Core just by radiologists). Also, we could envision a scenario where the radiology Core was so much harder than Step, and thus, the median step correlated with a 20%ile on the Core, in which case PDs could rationally care about having below avg steps in their program.

Ultimately, its probably way less about scores than about work ethic and all the other factors that aren't determined by a number.

 

[greg1184]

There are scores for overall and individual sections. The ABR doesn't share with the test takers the mean, median or SD of the exam. As far as I am concerned, the score is irrelevant. It is irrelevant for fellowship and for jobs. The people I know who failed the exam, the score had absolutely no bearing on their fellowship and/or job situation. As it should be.... its a test of minimal competency, not an IQ test (neither are the steps.... which the USMLE used to say on their website).

 

[masaraksh]

There are scores for overall and individual sections. The ABR doesn't share with the test takers the mean, median or SD of the exam. As far as I am concerned, the score is irrelevant. It is irrelevant for fellowship and for jobs. The people I know who failed the exam, the score had absolutely no bearing on their fellowship and/or job situation. As it should be.... its a test of minimal competency, not an IQ test (neither are the steps.... which the USMLE used to say on their website).

Right

It seems though that the in-training exams in other specialties are totally used to stratify residents and make sure they are studying. E.g. I've heard it with Ortho OITEs and then same with the ABSITE in gen surg - people are always told to crush those (especially if they are prelims trying to scag a categ spot.

 

[guytakingboards]

There are scores for overall and individual sections. The ABR doesn't share with the test takers the mean, median or SD of the exam. As far as I am concerned, the score is irrelevant. It is irrelevant for fellowship and for jobs. The people I know who failed the exam, the score had absolutely no bearing on their fellowship and/or job situation. As it should be.... its a test of minimal competency, not an IQ test (neither are the steps.... which the USMLE used to say on their website).

Advanced data for the core exam is sent to the programs.

I recently reviewed my program's Core exam performance. The ABR gives program averages against national averages by sub-section as well as number of residents in each quartile nationally (again by sub-section). It's a purely academic enterprise though, that data is not relevant to the individual test taker.

 

[guytakingboards]

Right

It seems though that the in-training exams in other specialties are totally used to stratify residents and make sure they are studying. E.g. I've heard it with Ortho OITEs and then same with the ABSITE in gen surg - people are always told to crush those (especially if they are prelims trying to scag a categ spot.

In my program the ITE is used to determine if residents can moonlight (<30% overall loses moonlighting privileges). The ITE is definitely used to make sure people are studying but it also has no correlation with board pass rates as the ITE and Core exam are administered by two different organizations (ITE-ACR, Core exam- ABR).

At least among my classmates, people's ITE performances have been extremely variable. One co-resident scored in the 99%ile 2nd year and then in the 1st %ile the next year. Its a stupid test.

 

[masaraksh]

In my program the ITE is used to determine if residents can moonlight (<30% overall loses moonlighting privileges). The ITE is definitely used to make sure people are studying but it also has no correlation with board pass rates as the ITE and Core exam are administered by two different organizations (ITE-ACR, Core exam- ABR).

At least among my classmates, people's ITE performances have been extremely variable. One co-resident scored in the 99%ile 2nd year and then in the 1st %ile the next year. Its a stupid test.

That honestly sounds reasonable to me.