Rads still competitive?

[medfam]

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Heard from a friend radiology has become less competitive the last few years?

However, attendings still tell me otherwise.

Anyone have any insights on this? Why would it be less competitive if the salary and lifestyle is still great?

 

[chronicidal]

nrmp charting outcomes in the match 2014

 

[maxxor]

Heard from a friend radiology has become less competitive the last few years?

However, attendings still tell me otherwise.

Anyone have any insights on this? Why would it be less competitive if the salary and lifestyle is still great?

It's still competitive to match at top programs (MGH, UCSF, Stanford, NYU, WashU, JHU...). The problem with Radiology is that there are literally over 1000 spots. It's not hard to match; it's hard to match somewhere worthwhile.

 

[chronicidal]

chief residents think that the job market is a primary driver of declining medical student interest

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26297641

 

[Bradstein]

chief residents think that the job market is a primary driver of declining medical student interest

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26297641

I think everyone does.

Step 1 score is high, but probably self selection. Radiology is intensely challenging to pick up, and the whole of medical school only prepares you very peripherally. This is very different than doing your intern year, where medical school has prepared you to do the work directly.

Forgot to mention that volumes are very high, so you have to be smart and fast. Board score isn't a perfect measure of that, but it's something.

 

[GadRads]

I think everyone does.

Step 1 score is high, but probably self selection. Radiology is intensely challenging to pick up, and the whole of medical school only prepares you very peripherally. This is very different than doing your intern year, where medical school has prepared you to do the work directly.

Forgot to mention that volumes are very high, so you have to be smart and fast. Board score isn't a perfect measure of that, but it's something.

Care to expound on this?

 

[Bradstein]

Care to expound on this?

For example, one of the biggest gunners in my med school class would look up pimp questions answers on rounds, so when they asked another med student first and they didn't know it because it was crazy obscure, when they got to her she knew it and she seemed like a genius.

When you're on call in radiology, you have to know it cold OR you are very close to knowing it and can look it up quickly on StatDX or something. When it's slow you might be able to spend 20 min reading around to find a diagnosis, but when you've got traums, ED, and ICU studies piling up you don't have time to really research it.

Bottom line: you don't just have to know a lot of stuff, you have to be able to mobilize it quickly.

 

[Doctor D]

Poor job market. Increasing workloads with 24/7 coverage including holidays... not a lifestyle field anymore.

 

[shark2000]

For example, one of the biggest gunners in my med school class would look up pimp questions answers on rounds, so when they asked another med student first and they didn't know it because it was crazy obscure, when they got to her she knew it and she seemed like a genius.

When you're on call in radiology, you have to know it cold OR you are very close to knowing it and can look it up quickly on StatDX or something. When it's slow you might be able to spend 20 min reading around to find a diagnosis, but when you've got traums, ED, and ICU studies piling up you don't have time to really research it.

Bottom line: you don't just have to know a lot of stuff, you have to be able to mobilize it quickly.

Disagree to some extent. You don't know what you don't know. You don't even know whether it exists at all if you don't know about it in the first place.

Let's say you don't know about peritoneal carcinomatosis at all. I bet you will miss it on CT.

 

[shark2000]

Job market is the main factor. Still medical students think this is a life style field in the way that derm and ophtho are.

 

[Gadofosveset]

Typical day today: 12 hour day, prob <30 minutes total in lunch and breaks. Got there before the residents and fellows, left after the residents and most of the fellows. Did four procedures. Read out residents and fellows, but 1/3 of my cases I read myself. Tired at the end of the day. Currently prepping resident lecture for next week.

Lifestyle field? Depends on who you ask. Not really, I guess, but I wouldn't trade it.

 

[psychmdhopeful]

Typical day today: 12 hour day, prob <30 minutes total in lunch and breaks. Got there before the residents and fellows, left after the residents and most of the fellows. Did four procedures. Read out residents and fellows, but 1/3 of my cases I read myself. Tired at the end of the day. Currently prepping resident lecture for next week.

Lifestyle field? Depends on who you ask. Not really, I guess, but I wouldn't trade it.

I definitely see the Rads at my place doing a similar type of schedule. Just curious, once you are done with your day, are you done like an EM doc would be? How about weekends for family and friends?

 

[Doctor D]

There is a trend in radiology jobs to offer more vacation compared to other specialties. Some jobs will even have 15-20 weeks of vacation a year. This is to offset the weekends, evenings, and/or nights that are also covered.

 

[Gadofosveset]

There is a trend in radiology jobs to offer more vacation compared to other specialties. Some jobs will even have 15-20 weeks of vacation a year. This is to offset the weekends, evenings, and/or nights that are also covered.

I'd be happy with 5-6 weeks off.

 

[Gadofosveset]

I definitely see the Rads at my place doing a similar type of schedule. Just curious, once you are done with your day, are you done like an EM doc would be? How about weekends for family and friends?

Mostly yes. You still have to deal with bureaucratic issues on your own time that all docs have to deal with. If you're in academics, you spend a fair amount of your own time putting together teaching presentations or research projects. Some of that is offset with "academic time", but this hardly covers what's needed. If you're on call, you'll get called, so I guess that's different than EM. Groups handle weekends differently. I don't think it's too bad, but my non-doc friends disagree.

 

[MadRadLad]

Mostly yes. You still have to deal with bureaucratic issues on your own time that all docs have to deal with. If you're in academics, you spend a fair amount of your own time putting together teaching presentations or research projects. Some of that is offset with "academic time", but this hardly covers what's needed. If you're on call, you'll get called, so I guess that's different than EM. Groups handle weekends differently. I don't think it's too bad, but my non-doc friends disagree.

Is there a significant difference in hours and pay between academics and PP in radiology? It seems like it is one of those fields where if you really put all your time into reads, the $$ goes up significantly.

 

[Gadofosveset]

Is there a significant difference in hours and pay between academics and PP in radiology? It seems like it is one of those fields where if you really put all your time into reads, the $$ goes up significantly.

Yes, although unfortunately the gap has been narrowing (i.e. PP overall slowly moving downwards toward academics).

So much depends on the group and the contract. Some of my friends have sweet PP deals with decent hours, volume, and above average salary... but someone in the group across the street may be reading 125% as much, on call once a month, and with 85% of the salary. There's no simple answer. Overall averages and regional averages are somewhat useful, but your actual situation and quality of life will depend very much on knowing the right people, being in the right place at the right time, and negotiating (not so much for one's first job, but afterwards). This is true for any medical job, btw.

 

[shark2000]

The hours, salary and schedule is very very different even between two practices in the same small town.

 

[MadRadLad]

Yes, although unfortunately the gap has been narrowing (i.e. PP overall slowly moving downwards toward academics).

So much depends on the group and the contract. Some of my friends have sweet PP deals with decent hours, volume, and above average salary... but someone in the group across the street may be reading 125% as much, on call once a month, and with 85% of the salary. There's no simple answer. Overall averages and regional averages are somewhat useful, but your actual situation and quality of life will depend very much on knowing the right people, being in the right place at the right time, and negotiating (not so much for one's first job, but afterwards). This is true for any medical job, btw.

Appreciate the insight. I'm not sure if i'd prefer academics or PP at this point, it seems like you give up a lot of income but the hours can be a little better in the former. Is it common to start in academics and transition to PP later in life?

 

[Gadofosveset]

I don't think there's much transition from academics to PP. It seems like there's more possibility for transition in the first few years of one's career, but I haven't witnessed it happening too often in more established careers. Maybe I'm just not aware of it.

It used to be slightly more common the other way around (PP --> academics), but this doesn't seem too common anymore either... at least in my part of the woods.

 

[shark2000]

The hours and amount of work relative to the salary is better in academics. Consider that you have to pay 40% of the gap in taxes.

 

[psychmdhopeful]

I don't think there's much transition from academics to PP. It seems like there's more possibility for transition in the first few years of one's career, but I haven't witnessed it happening too often in more established careers. Maybe I'm just not aware of it.

It used to be slightly more common the other way around (PP --> academics), but this doesn't seem too common anymore either... at least in my part of the woods.

Gadofosveset and Shark, thanks for all the replies - it is very helpful to hear from Radiologists in practice. It sounds like it is becoming more difficult to transition between PP and academics. For someone who doesn't know which environment they might enjoy more and are considering residency options, would going to a community program significantly affect one's ability to go into academic practice in the future?

 

[maxxor]

Gadofosveset and Shark, thanks for all the replies - it is very helpful to hear from Radiologists in practice. It sounds like it is becoming more difficult to transition between PP and academics. For someone who doesn't know which environment they might enjoy more and are considering residency options, would going to a community program significantly affect one's ability to go into academic practice in the future?

yes. go to the best academic program you can. Radiology is all about knowing all the pathology that can exist.

 

[shark2000]

Gadofosveset and Shark, thanks for all the replies - it is very helpful to hear from Radiologists in practice. It sounds like it is becoming more difficult to transition between PP and academics. For someone who doesn't know which environment they might enjoy more and are considering residency options, would going to a community program significantly affect one's ability to go into academic practice in the future?

Depends on the location and the prestige of the academic program that you want to join. If you want to become an attending at UCSF or UCLA, you have a much higher chance if you do your residency at UCSF or UCLA. Most of their new hires are people who have done residency and fellowship with them. Some places like UCSF or MGH or Hopkins pretty much only hire people with lots of connections and a very strong research background which is very hard to do unless you are MD-Phd and you do your residency at one of the big programs.

If you want to become an attending in midwest programs or Texas or smaller coastal university programs and esp in something like Chest your residency is less important.

For now, try to go to the best residency program that you can in the location that you want to settle in the future.

 

[W19]

yes. go to the best academic program you can. Radiology is all about knowing all the pathology that can exist.

That does not make feel any better.🙁

 

[maxxor]

That does not make feel any better.🙁

You can't see what you don't know.