Rainbow babies vs cincinnati children's
Started by lioness5
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I don't think just picking based on name is an appropriate way to choose a residency program. Ultimately your career goals, your personality and the way in which you mesh with the program are far more important than the name on your paycheck. There's no benefit to going to a place where you're miserable or the program's goals don't align with your own.
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Did not interview at case, but from friends that went there in undergrad, they were not exactly excited about the prospect of returning to the city of Cleveland.
Nati was a BIG program. They didn't seem to emphasize research in residency to me; moreso they accomodate it, but more fellows are invovled in that aspect. Seemed fellow driven, which I don't necessarily think is bad. All PD's and APD's really seemed to value the education/teaching aspect of a residency program, which I thought was key.
I think in the pediatric community, a final degree from Nati would be more valuable, everything else being equal. That being said, your letters may NOT be equal due to the size. Depends on personality and ability to bond with staff quickly.
Either way, you are debating between 2 top 20 programs, so you'll likely get any fellowship you want going to either. But if you have your heart absolutely set on Neonatology at UCSF, or something super specific and competitive, I'd hedge toward Nati.
Nati was a BIG program. They didn't seem to emphasize research in residency to me; moreso they accomodate it, but more fellows are invovled in that aspect. Seemed fellow driven, which I don't necessarily think is bad. All PD's and APD's really seemed to value the education/teaching aspect of a residency program, which I thought was key.
I think in the pediatric community, a final degree from Nati would be more valuable, everything else being equal. That being said, your letters may NOT be equal due to the size. Depends on personality and ability to bond with staff quickly.
Either way, you are debating between 2 top 20 programs, so you'll likely get any fellowship you want going to either. But if you have your heart absolutely set on Neonatology at UCSF, or something super specific and competitive, I'd hedge toward Nati.
Actually, Rainbow Babies and Children's (Case) has an excellent reputation in Neonatology, and an applicant would not be "shorting" themselves by doing a residency there vs. some other quality program. As has been said before, there are many high quality Peds programs that will prepare their residents for fellowships and academic careers. My advice is to pick the program(s) that seem like the best fit for your learning style, personality, and geographic requirements and desires. And I know plenty of physicians, etc. who liked living in Cleveland.
Remember that the RRC puts a limit on the amount of time that can be or must be spent in certain activities, irrespective of the program, and that the work hour restrictions may further limit the amount of time available for residents to do research. And the most important factor in getting a good fellowship will be the applicant- how he/she did as a resident, work ethic, in-service exam scores, etc. Just "being from" a prestigious program won't necessarily open any fellowship doors if the applicant doesn't measure up.
I rarely comment on specific programs, but I'll make an exception here....Both Rainbow and Cincinnati are amongst the best and most highly regarded pediatric programs in the US. Specific to neonatology, even recognizing the extreme limitations of US News rankings, they are #3 and #4. Not much to choose between in terms of reputation at all and I can comfortably opine that most/nearly all/sane (pick the adjective of your choice) fellowship directors would not see one as really different than the other.
On the other hand, Cincinnati and Cleveland are very different cities to live in and it should be possible to identify which city as well as overall program you like better. Choose based on those issues, not rankings or how fellowships would see the programs related to each other.
As always, just my dos pesos....
On the other hand, Cincinnati and Cleveland are very different cities to live in and it should be possible to identify which city as well as overall program you like better. Choose based on those issues, not rankings or how fellowships would see the programs related to each other.
As always, just my dos pesos....
Agree with all the above viewpoints that they are vastly similar programs with vastly similar strengths, all without hardly a difference in so called "reputation" or "tier." Cinncy is certainly a much larger program, I felt back when I interviewed for a residency program that it would have been more difficult to get to know most people at Cinncy than Rainbow (but that was my subjective opinion, I'm hardly a social butterfly). I felt like if I grabbed two residents at random at Cinncy, there was a good chance they didn't know their names (again, IMO for the brief 6 hour experience I had there). Wasn't it up until recently that Rainbow had three interim Peds Chairs? I believe somebody has been hired right? I recall past concerns with past applicants asking the chiefs/program director how it impacted residents (IMO it didn't, but it seemed others were really concerned about it, but its now a non-issue). Rainbow felt like it was an older hospital, although that's quite comical since Rainbow was built in the late 90's, and Cinncy was only recently remodeled/expanded. Cinncy did make a good point that its THE only hospital in town, whereas Rainbow is not... does that really make a difference, not really.
I don't know how people can say going to Rainbow would somehow impact their ability to get an excellent fellowship, especially with the connotation that its true even in neonatology. If anything, going to Rainbow gives one better access to some prominent neonatologists at one of the top NICU's in the country, I don't see how that would impact someone's ability to match somewhere else like UCSF's NICU (WTF, really?). That's the funny part, the Rainbow NICU is probably the highlight of the tour now, its an impressive facility that fits its reputation. If you're interested in NICU, I would listen to oldbearprofessor's informed analysis and ignore all those who say otherwise. It doesn't make a difference where you go, you will receive excellent training from superb attendings, with many future NICU fellowship doors wide open to you. And by going to Rainbow, you have dramatically increased your probability of matching at a top NICU, Rainbow!
To me, the differences in programs are minor. Cleveland vs Cinncy? I think alot of Rainbow residents would agree with me, Cleveland gets a horrible rap for being "Cleveland." I've spent some brief time there, there's more to the city than its reputation suggests. Sure its easily to mock Cleveland, especially the way Lebron treated them, but Cleveland has a lot more to offer. I'm a sports fan, and Cleveland now is a black hole for sports, its quite disappointing, hopefully they can get it together. I guess some would argue Cleveland has more snow and wind, maybe Cinncy is just slightly warmer. Then again, alot of people mentioned that people there just don't know how to drive in the snow. Both cities have their own respective bad neighborhoods. Cost of living is exceptionally low. Diverse populations. Shrug, if I would have matched to either programs, I feel I would have been happy and also successful (both were in the top 5 of my final rank list).
And that's the take home message. Go somewhere and be happy.
I don't know how people can say going to Rainbow would somehow impact their ability to get an excellent fellowship, especially with the connotation that its true even in neonatology. If anything, going to Rainbow gives one better access to some prominent neonatologists at one of the top NICU's in the country, I don't see how that would impact someone's ability to match somewhere else like UCSF's NICU (WTF, really?). That's the funny part, the Rainbow NICU is probably the highlight of the tour now, its an impressive facility that fits its reputation. If you're interested in NICU, I would listen to oldbearprofessor's informed analysis and ignore all those who say otherwise. It doesn't make a difference where you go, you will receive excellent training from superb attendings, with many future NICU fellowship doors wide open to you. And by going to Rainbow, you have dramatically increased your probability of matching at a top NICU, Rainbow!
To me, the differences in programs are minor. Cleveland vs Cinncy? I think alot of Rainbow residents would agree with me, Cleveland gets a horrible rap for being "Cleveland." I've spent some brief time there, there's more to the city than its reputation suggests. Sure its easily to mock Cleveland, especially the way Lebron treated them, but Cleveland has a lot more to offer. I'm a sports fan, and Cleveland now is a black hole for sports, its quite disappointing, hopefully they can get it together. I guess some would argue Cleveland has more snow and wind, maybe Cinncy is just slightly warmer. Then again, alot of people mentioned that people there just don't know how to drive in the snow. Both cities have their own respective bad neighborhoods. Cost of living is exceptionally low. Diverse populations. Shrug, if I would have matched to either programs, I feel I would have been happy and also successful (both were in the top 5 of my final rank list).
And that's the take home message. Go somewhere and be happy.
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