random question about caffeine usage/studying enough

[gatorgirl1214]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Alight, so I'm about to finish my first semester of pre-pharmacy (with bio 1, anatomy 1, and pre-calc), and I think I've done alright.

I was recently diagnosed with a caffeine intolerance, and can no longer drink it. I get heart palpitations with it. Really sad.

I've been falling behind on studying and such because I'm just not able to get enough studying in before falling asleep.

I'm taking 14 credits this semester, and working as a tech at Target pharmacy. I'm only working 20-23 hours a week, and cannot work less because of money. I have a slight problem with procrastination, but I find it has only gotten worse without having caffeine.

Do any of you wonderful people have advice for how to study without caffeine? I've been drinking it for years, and I guess I formed an addiction to it. My grades aren't slipping too bad, but I notice a difference in my overall performance, as well as needing to sleep more. I don't like sleep! It's a waste of time!

I have tried OJ, trail mix, and fruit. None seem to help enough to get me through an all nighter.

Thanks all!

 

[Hello2011]

I don't like sleep! It's a waste of time!

👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 Sleep is amazing. If you don't like it you're doing it wrong.

 

[gatorgirl1214]

I feel like I could be doing better things! Studying, catching up with (now non-existant) friends, etc. Instead, I have to give in to sleep! I hate it!

 

[Strategist]

"All nighters" do not work. My mind would undergo a complete purge if I did so. It makes no sense, especially because you need sleep to retain what you learned. I think some misinformed people feel like they're not a college student without doing an "all nighter." I had an organic chemistry professor who used to track test performance and hours of sleep, and it was exactly as science indicates, although he did admit that the students who slept more may have studied ahead of time and thus not needed extra cramming and so on.

Procrastination is the primary difficulty, and I find that a routine works for me. Also, having a "study spot/area" helps a lot. Only study at that location, and do slacking activities elsewhere. There are some decent books on how to study better, but I found this aspect most helpful for me at least.

I am with you about sleep complaint though, I've always hated it. Although lately I am so exhausted that I actually kind of look forward to sleep rather than my usual loathing of it.

 

[Notecard]

"All nighters" do not work.

This is subjective. They still work for me, at least in the context of getting an A. I still occasionally stay up all night studying to walk in the next morning and finish the exam in 15 minutes knowing I got an A. It's a good feeling.

To OP: Eat healthy, exercise a bit, and try to sleep less.

Or try polyphasic sleep. I tried it once as an experiment but it didn't work out well for me at all 👎

 

[vaughnpereira]

An amazing thing to do is make some audio notes and listen to them through headphones while you sleep. You will be absorbing a ton of info and not even realize it.

 

[ChainHeal]

if you must need some stimulant to help you stay awake there are caffeine free 5 hr energy drinks.

 

[xtsukiyox]

Abusing a stimulant to stay awake to the point of dependence sounds unhealthy to me, with or without heart palpitations. I don't understand why caffeine addiction is socially acceptable and even trendy.

gatorgirl, it sounds like the main issue here is time management. Perhaps when you were using caffeine, you had more awake time, so you could fit more activities in. You're going to need to identify activities that can take less time or need to be cut altogether to make more time for school. Also, as you progress, classes tend to take more time (ymmv). You may need to carve out time every day to work on "school," rather than studying only for a particular goal. If you're studying all along, you need less cramming. Plus, if you can figure this out now, you'll be ahead of a lot of people in life (myself included).

As far as your comment about not liking the time lost to sleep - I second the idea of trying polyphasic sleep during summer break. Especially as a student, you can probably get away with adjusting your schedule around it, although you are probably going to have to work hard to maintain that sort of lifestyle during pharma school. If you google, there is a nice blog I read where a guy talks about his experience trying polyphasic sleep. Bonus, you will have had time to come down off of caffeine withdrawals by summer break.

I would hazard a guess that the reason you feel slow is because you are absolutely in withdrawal. It's going to suck. You might get headaches. But it will go away, if you give it a couple months. In the meantime, you need to treat yourself kindly and understand that you'll feel better later.

All of that being said, that's why as a general rule I don't drink caffeine except for when I absolutely have to study late. 😎

 

[gatorgirl1214]

Abusing a stimulant to stay awake to the point of dependence sounds unhealthy to me, with or without heart palpitations. I don't understand why caffeine addiction is socially acceptable and even trendy.

gatorgirl, it sounds like the main issue here is time management. Perhaps when you were using caffeine, you had more awake time, so you could fit more activities in. You're going to need to identify activities that can take less time or need to be cut altogether to make more time for school. Also, as you progress, classes tend to take more time (ymmv). You may need to carve out time every day to work on "school," rather than studying only for a particular goal. If you're studying all along, you need less cramming. Plus, if you can figure this out now, you'll be ahead of a lot of people in life (myself included).

As far as your comment about not liking the time lost to sleep - I second the idea of trying polyphasic sleep during summer break. Especially as a student, you can probably get away with adjusting your schedule around it, although you are probably going to have to work hard to maintain that sort of lifestyle during pharma school. If you google, there is a nice blog I read where a guy talks about his experience trying polyphasic sleep. Bonus, you will have had time to come down off of caffeine withdrawals by summer break.

I would hazard a guess that the reason you feel slow is because you are absolutely in withdrawal. It's going to suck. You might get headaches. But it will go away, if you give it a couple months. In the meantime, you need to treat yourself kindly and understand that you'll feel better later.

All of that being said, that's why as a general rule I don't drink caffeine except for when I absolutely have to study late. 😎

I'm not sure I can even cut anything out. Even with caffeine, I had NO free time. I haven't gone 'out' with friends, even for a meal, since the beginning of the semester. I give my roommate $25/week to do my laundry, as I have no time to do it.

ALL I do is go to class, study in the library, study at home, work, drive to/from these places, and sleep (on a maximum of 5-6 hours a night, lately). I don't see how I could cut any of that out. Next year, I am going to try to live on campus to make it closer, and that will allow for 2 extra hours of time each day as I live far from my university.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[kcwang]

Go work out. It works better than coffee.

 

[wanttobepharm]

fun fact for you, neural connections are made while you while. You will not truly learn the material until you go to sleep and let your brain process the studied material.

👍

 

[xtsukiyox]

I'm not sure I can even cut anything out. Even with caffeine, I had NO free time. I haven't gone 'out' with friends, even for a meal, since the beginning of the semester. I give my roommate $25/week to do my laundry, as I have no time to do it.

ALL I do is go to class, study in the library, study at home, work, drive to/from these places, and sleep (on a maximum of 5-6 hours a night, lately). I don't see how I could cut any of that out. Next year, I am going to try to live on campus to make it closer, and that will allow for 2 extra hours of time each day as I live far from my university.

Thanks for the advice!

Ouch, yeah, living closer would definitely give you a better chunk of time. A tip since you're in the car so much - record your lectures if you can, and listen to them on the trip. You'll pick up more than you thought you would, even if you're only paying partial attention.

How many hours are you working a week? Is there any give for work? How far are you driving?

How efficiently do you study? Do you have a lot of distractions? How much of your study time is in "group study," and does group study work for you? The study habits you had before may not transfer to undergrad - my guess is you probably need to learn how to target your studying to what the profs really want you to learn. This gets easier.

Your college may have a study skills seminar you could attend. While you probably know 80-90% of the tactics they will suggest, you might pick up something new to try. I fully invite you to walk out part way through if it's a waste, to reclaim some of your precious time.

As an example of studying efficiently instead of hard - I have not read an entire reading selection for class (except for pleasure) since my first semesters in college. When I realized I could do well enough for virtually all applications by skimming first so I knew what was covered then reading in-depth the sections the prof specifically calls out, I saved myself hours of prep time each week. The exception to the rule was Elements of Statistics, but I caught on pretty quick. 😛 Figure out what works for you and still gets you the grades & level of mastery you want.

Something has to give. You have to have fun sometimes! And you need enough sleep for your body, or you'll get run down or burn out. One of the most valuable skills you can learn during undergrad is work/school & life balance. It is a skill, meaning it takes practice to master. While you do have a goal in sight, remember to be kind to yourself too! It's about the journey as much as the goal.

By the way, I do want to give you a big pat on the back for deciding to prioritize school - good decision! I think that got lost somewhere in my ramblings, but it deserves a double underline.

 

[Pharmizzle]

I'm not sure I can even cut anything out. Even with caffeine, I had NO free time. I haven't gone 'out' with friends, even for a meal, since the beginning of the semester. I give my roommate $25/week to do my laundry, as I have no time to do it.

ALL I do is go to class, study in the library, study at home, work, drive to/from these places, and sleep (on a maximum of 5-6 hours a night, lately). I don't see how I could cut any of that out. Next year, I am going to try to live on campus to make it closer, and that will allow for 2 extra hours of time each day as I live far from my university.

Thanks for the advice!

I mean no offense to you, but it's really not healthy to not take time to sleep and have fun, and it's crazy if you have no time to even eat a meal with your friends.

In my opinion, 14 credits and 20 hours of work per week in undergrad should be totally manageable and leave you with plenty of time to socialize and sleep (I worked 40 hours and regularly took 15-18 credits). I think having time for yourself to do non-school stuff is essential. You are only in your first year of pre-pharmacy and you're running a serious risk of burning out when your classes get more difficult. Having good time-management skills is crucial for pharmacy school, so best to develop those skills now.

It sounds to me like you should examine your study style -- spending hours and hours and hours and hours studying isn't necessarily effective studying. The quality of your studying is much more important than the quantity.

 

[rxlea]

Alight, so I'm about to finish my first semester of pre-pharmacy (with bio 1, anatomy 1, and pre-calc), and I think I've done alright.

I was recently diagnosed with a caffeine intolerance, and can no longer drink it. I get heart palpitations with it. Really sad.

I've been falling behind on studying and such because I'm just not able to get enough studying in before falling asleep.

I'm taking 14 credits this semester, and working as a tech at Target pharmacy. I'm only working 20-23 hours a week, and cannot work less because of money. I have a slight problem with procrastination, but I find it has only gotten worse without having caffeine.

Do any of you wonderful people have advice for how to study without caffeine? I've been drinking it for years, and I guess I formed an addiction to it. My grades aren't slipping too bad, but I notice a difference in my overall performance, as well as needing to sleep more. I don't like sleep! It's a waste of time!

I have tried OJ, trail mix, and fruit. None seem to help enough to get me through an all nighter.

Thanks all!

I quit caffeine before. When pharmacy school started, I started drinking it again
. I can't go a day without at least a little bit. But to answer your question, working out and eating healthy is a good way to increase your energy and focus. Having a routine helps too. Study an hour then take a ten minute break to get fresh air. Walk. Play a quick game of angry birds. Then go back to it. Since I started doing those things, my study stamina has increased significantly.

 

[Outwork505]

I quit caffeine before. When pharmacy school started, I started drinking it again
. I can't go a day without at least a little bit. But to answer your question, working out and eating healthy is a good way to increase your energy and focus. Having a routine helps too. Study an hour then take a ten minute break to get fresh air. Walk. Play a quick game of angry birds. Then go back to it. Since I started doing those things, my study stamina has increased significantly.

working out and eating healthy will definately help energy levels throughout the day.

You may want to look into a supplement like ALCAR or Huperzine-A, or other Nootropics to help give you a stimulant lie effect, without the actual stims.

The hour study/10min break thing has never worked for me. 3 hours on, 20-30min off seems to do good though. 1 hour at a time is not much work getting done.

But as far as caffeine goes, it is awesome. Why quit?...

People take anywhere from 300-600mg when in school or preping for the MCAT, etc... no biggie.

 

[xNeenax]

Do you know that coffee only blocks one of the mechanisms the brain triggers for sleep, only one. It doesn't inhibit the secretion of melatonin from the pineal and stuff like that, which makes you go to sleep. Thus, even when you drink coffee, your brain is still triggering mechanisms to make you sleep. Studying late will not be efficient as studying in the day. You have to take a longer time to study and get things done at night than you would in the day. Did you know that night time is actually the worst time to study?


It's actually more beneficial to study in the morning like at 10:00 am because that's when your alertness is the highest (that means it's best to take a test at 10am), but I understand that people have classes at that time. I do 🙂


You know I did that to myself, study all the time and not get enough sleep and I did bad in my classes because I was so slow and lagging on my studies. When I started get my sleep, I was able to increase my alertness and proficiency and I got more work done.

Sleep is good. Respect it.


Also to keep yourself awake at night. A few ways to keep you from going to sleep is to listen to loud upbeat music and increase sensory stimulation.

 

[ValeRx]

You may want to look into a supplement like ALCAR or Huperzine-A, or other Nootropics

No evidence to support this claim. Both garbage.

 

[danderson]

No evidence to support this claim. Both garbage.

Huperzine-A is an acetylcholine reuptake inhibitor and, indeed, has been shown to increase memory in healthy humans (similar to Donazepil). It also increases cathecholamines. ALCAR also has a ton of positive research. Don't make such strongly worded posts without doing enough, or any, research.

 

[ValeRx]

Huperzine-A is an acetylcholine reuptake inhibitor and, indeed, has been shown to increase memory in healthy humans (similar to Donazepil). It also increases cathecholamines. ALCAR also has a ton of positive research. Don't make such strongly worded posts without doing enough, or any, research.

Ok pre-pharm, your Google-fu is strong but lacks any personal knowledge. You really should get into pharmacy school before you start making comments like this.

Huperzine A

Huperzine A (pronounced HOOP-ur-zeen) is a moss extract that has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for centuries. It has properties similar to those of cholinesterase inhibitors, one class of FDA-approved Alzheimer's medications. As a result, it is promoted as a treatment for Alzheimer's disease.
The Alzheimer's Disease Cooperative Study (ADCS) conducted the first large-scale U.S. clinical trial of huperzine A as a treatment for mild to moderate Alzheimer's disease. Participants taking huperzine A experienced no greater benefit than those taking a placebo.

Of course, you could tell ALZ.org to go get their research before they write on their website too. Right?

I suppose next you're going to say there's good evidence behind ginkgo biloba?

Oh and what the hell is donazepil? Not even close, kid.

 

[danderson]

Ok pre-pharm,

...

Not even close, kid.

There's no need to get emotional or have an attitude. You sound unprofessional and as a pharmacy student should know that it gets in the way of clear thinking. Plus it makes you sound overly defensive..

your Google-fu is strong but lacks any personal knowledge. You really should get into pharmacy school before you start making comments like this

You know what they say about people who make ASSumptions. I've got a chemistry degree and I'm working on a medicinal chemistry masters, I'm not an idiot. My knowledge came from plenty of research on those compounds every once in awhile over several years on MedLine. I've had access to databases from my laptop for the past 6 years and have dozens of studies saved on my computer for these compounds.

A quick excerpt from the Clinical Pharmacology database. There are several reversible AChE inhibitor drugs that are in current use fyi:

"Actions: the alkaloid HupA binds very tightly to and inhibits acetylcholinesterase (AChE), thereby potentiating the actions of endogenous acetylcholine; binding of HupA to the enzyme is reversible ... other agents approved for treating Alzheimer's dementia (e.g., donepezil, tacrine) also inhibit AChE."

Of course, you could tell ALZ.org to go get their research before they write on their website too. Right?

Got the full text? I can't seem to find it. Those sound like very interesting findings. However I think it's important to point out that to have a comprehensive understanding of a drug, you should read as many studies on it as possible so you can put each one of them into context. For example, there are dozens of studies showing mixed results for Donepezil, a widely prescribed drug. There is surely a bell-shaped dose-response curve for these drugs that is an important factor.

I suppose next you're going to say there's good evidence behind ginkgo biloba?

For memory, no, I wouldn't say so.

Oh and what the hell is donazepil? Not even close, kid.

I've seen it spelled like that before, so I end up spelling it both ways sometimes.

I'm up for having a discussion with you, but I'd rather avoid an argument over the internet.

 

[ACE Rx]

if you must need some stimulant to help you stay awake there are caffeine free 5 hr energy drinks.

I think up to a certain point energy drinks become useless. There is only so much you can take in in one day before Law of Diminishing Returns kicks in. After a certain point, I get so sleepy that even using an energy drink would not help me to retain what I am reading. I would just call it a night and resume the next day.

Also, exercising and eating right throughout the day definitely keeps your energy levels up. 🙂

 

[Outwork505]

I think up to a certain point energy drinks become useless. There is only so much you can take in in one day before Law of Diminishing Returns kicks in. After a certain point, I get so sleepy that even using an energy drink would not help me to retain what I am reading. I would just call it a night and resume the next day.

Also, exercising and eating right throughout the day definitely keeps your energy levels up. 🙂

This guy speaks the truth.

And caffeine free 5hr energy drinks? Please don't waste your money on that crap. Overpriced, poor B-vitamin forms and low bioavailability. Save yourself the cash, dont buy these. buy caffeine pills + B-vitamins and mix it if you so wish, same thing and 1000x less expensive.

 

[kmapes]

You need to get better at managing your time. I also can't have any caffeine, also because it makes my heart do strange things. I've found the best way to cope with it is to manage your time well. For example, if you have a spare hour between class and work, don't spend it sitting around or watching television. Focus on things when and where you can, and make sure you are awake and alert in class. You'd be surprised as to how big of a difference that makes.

 

[Carboxide]

There's no need to get emotional or have an attitude. You sound unprofessional and as a pharmacy student should know that it gets in the way of clear thinking. Plus it makes you sound overly defensive..




You know what they say about people who make ASSumptions. I've got a chemistry degree and I'm working on a medicinal chemistry masters, I'm not an idiot. My knowledge came from plenty of research on those compounds every once in awhile over several years on MedLine. I've had access to databases from my laptop for the past 6 years and have dozens of studies saved on my computer for these compounds.

A quick excerpt from the Clinical Pharmacology database. There are several reversible AChE inhibitor drugs that are in current use fyi:

"Actions: the alkaloid HupA binds very tightly to and inhibits acetylcholinesterase (AChE), thereby potentiating the actions of endogenous acetylcholine; binding of HupA to the enzyme is reversible ... other agents approved for treating Alzheimer's dementia (e.g., donepezil, tacrine) also inhibit AChE."



Got the full text? I can't seem to find it. Those sound like very interesting findings. However I think it's important to point out that to have a comprehensive understanding of a drug, you should read as many studies on it as possible so you can put each one of them into context. For example, there are dozens of studies showing mixed results for Donepezil, a widely prescribed drug. There is surely a bell-shaped dose-response curve for these drugs that is an important factor.



For memory, no, I wouldn't say so.



I've seen it spelled like that before, so I end up spelling it both ways sometimes.

I'm up for having a discussion with you, but I'd rather avoid an argument over the internet.

Sorry, but Vale's right. You might have a master's in orgo but that doesn't mean you know anything about pharmacy, and I'd recommend you not try to practice pharmacy without that knowledge. The studies that have been done are very short-term and contradicted by other studies, and the evidence is DEFINITELY not strong enough to recommend it.

As for Aricept, I can't possibly believe you've seen it spelled both with an A and with the z and p switched. Donepezil. That is how you spell it. There is ONE way. Don't make excuses for spelling it wrong. There aren't options. Misspelling of drug names can cause confusion that could lead to wrong drug dispensing and even death.

 

[xNeenax]

Exercising late can keep you awake longer, late as in maybe a few hours after dinner.

Dancing is fun! You can dance indoors. All you need is a song and a dance to learn. Find a dance tutorial and learn the moves. simple.

 

[danderson]

Sorry, but Vale's right. You might have a master's in orgo but that doesn't mean you know anything about pharmacy, and I'd recommend you not try to practice pharmacy without that knowledge. The studies that have been done are very short-term and contradicted by other studies, and the evidence is DEFINITELY not strong enough to recommend it.

As for Aricept, I can't possibly believe you've seen it spelled both with an A and with the z and p switched. Donepezil. That is how you spell it. There is ONE way. Don't make excuses for spelling it wrong. There aren't options. Misspelling of drug names can cause confusion that could lead to wrong drug dispensing and even death.

Your friend here said there is no evidence behind it, which is still false, sorry. It has many successful double-blind clinical trials, so yea.. Hell, the website he posted in his reply said there is evidence behind it and that clinicians prescribe it. Not being a pharmacist does not disqualify me from replying.. As for the paragraph you wrote about my misspelling, yes your points are very right, but type it into google books and also laugh at some of the idiot M.D.'s who spelled it that way in their published books.

Look, as I said before, I'm not interested in having a HEATED argument (I'll save that for my interactions in real life). I am here for DISCUSSION (capitalized for emphasis), which can't be done simultaneously. No hard feelings guys. 🙂

 

[phathead]

Your friend here said there is no evidence behind it, which is still false, sorry. It has many successful double-blind clinical trials, so yea.. Hell, the website he posted in his reply said there is evidence behind it and that clinicians prescribe it. Not being a pharmacist does not disqualify me from replying.. As for the paragraph you wrote about my misspelling, yes you're points are very right, but type it into google books and also laugh at some of the idiot M.D.'s who spelled it that way in their published books.

Look, as I said before, I'm not interested in having a HEATED argument (I'll save that for my interactions in real life). I am here for DISCUSSION (capitalized for emphasis), which can't be done simultaneously. No hard feelings guys. 🙂

That particular compound was covered in my med chem, pharmacology and therapy courses with all profs, using different sources, saying that it is no better than a placebo in AD.

And I would never, ever, take a website's claims about a drug/product as factual. Especially when you're talking about compounds like this which the vast majority of the time are twisted by marketing departments so that the common person believes their claims.

When I have time later tonight, I'll try and dig out the specific study that was sited in one of our lectures.

 

[danderson]

That particular compound was covered in my med chem, pharmacology and therapy courses with all profs, using different sources, saying that it is no better than a placebo in AD.

I would bet they were talking about the Alzheimer's Disease Cooperative Study, because I can't really find many negative findings. Huperzine A has successfully gone through all phases of clinical trials in China and is an approved treatment of AD there. Some review papers that give good summaries and opinions are:

"Huperzine A as potential treatment of Alzheimer's Disease: An assessment on chemistry, pharmacology, and clinical studies." 2011

"Huperzine A from Huperzia species - An ethnopharmacological review." 2007

It is clear that the positive findings have been replicated many many times. Now the thing is though that all the research is from China. And then this large-scale study in the USA shows it is no better than placebo. Maybe it affects the Asian population differently?

edit- although I don't want to sound dismissive of your input. I have to admit that multiple professors at your pharmacy school basically saying similar things about the subject certainly carries a lot of weight on the matter.

And I would never, ever, take a website's claims about a drug/product as factual. Especially when you're talking about compounds like this which the vast majority of the time are twisted by marketing departments so that the common person believes their claims.

I fully understand and completely agree with this. Hell, even if I'm reading a published study and I don't see a conflict of interest statement at the end, I sometimes dig deeper to find who funded the study or was associated with the researchers, etc, depending on the situation. But I think you maybe missed something here, I was talking about the Alzheimer's Disease Cooperative Study (ADCS) website.

 

[xtsukiyox]

I'ma let you finish, but I just want to say one thing. I think the fact that you've changed a thread on studying / time management without caffeine into a scholarly discussion is fantastic. 👍

 

[xNeenax]

I'ma let you finish, but I just want to say one thing. I think the fact that you've changed a thread on studying / time management without caffeine into a scholarly discussion is fantastic. 👍

I'm on the pharmacy students side (carboxide, phathead, and vale) 😀😀

 

[xtsukiyox]

I'm on the pharmacy students side (carboxide, phathead, and vale) 😀😀

Suck up. 😉

 

[desklamp]

Ok pre-pharm, your Google-fu is strong but lacks any personal knowledge. You really should get into pharmacy school before you start making comments like this.

Huperzine A

Huperzine A (pronounced HOOP-ur-zeen) is a moss extract that has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for centuries. It has properties similar to those of cholinesterase inhibitors, one class of FDA-approved Alzheimer's medications. As a result, it is promoted as a treatment for Alzheimer's disease.
The Alzheimer's Disease Cooperative Study (ADCS) conducted the first large-scale U.S. clinical trial of huperzine A as a treatment for mild to moderate Alzheimer's disease. Participants taking huperzine A experienced no greater benefit than those taking a placebo.

Of course, you could tell ALZ.org to go get their research before they write on their website too. Right?

I suppose next you're going to say there's good evidence behind ginkgo biloba?

Oh and what the hell is donazepil? Not even close, kid.

so in summary, pharmD thinks he's god and no one else can touch his field.

arrogance has to be earned.

what are you people even talking about in terms of huperzine efficacy? one of you posted a SINGLE phase II trial for alzheimers (specifically saying it was class III evidence right in the abstract) indicating that it was no better than placebo but made no reference towards the length of the study or the dose. in fact there was a secondary analysis done that implied a 0.4 mg BID dose had some efficacy in cognition for alzheimer's. but the original suggestion for huperzine usage in this thread was about stimulant effects anyways.

i have a masters in pharmacology and am a P2 currently working on a clinical trial and in basic research in a neuro disease rather similar to alzheimer's ergo i must be amazing and everyone listen to me.

no but seriously i just skimmed the abstract and found those things so it's possible i may even be off-- but reading like 5 papers to prove something right or wrong that doesn't affect me isn't really worth it :/. my point was just that when you read clinical trials there are MANY more factors that need to be weighed (validity, dosing, arms, conflicts of interest, ARR etc), which means you can't use one trial and be completely sure about the efficacy of a drug. i'm not saying it is efficacious either. who knows. it just bothers me when people read the last line of an abstract, or a summary of the paper from elsewhere, and not the paper itself while still drawing very strong conclusions. it's one thing to say "oh we don't recommend this drug because of X and Y and Z" and another to say "it doesn't work."

and also don't be mean to our colleagues who are non-pharmDs. he was right in a lot of the things he said, barring not spelling one drug correctly. unless there is some correlation between having occasional mixups with drug names and intelligence i doubt that it is relevant.

and just for the record, there is some small evidence for ginkgo efficacy in dementia- but the results are not huge and it was shown only in pt who already have it. that was told to us by a professor and i'm too lazy to look it up.