Rank Lists

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My list is a little(LOT!!!) less glamorous than some but here it goes

1. Indiana U
2. MCW
3. KU
4. U of Ark
5. UT SW
6. UMKC

Hopefully I won't have to go much beyond this.
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Agator, what's the deal with that? You must really like cold weather.
 
lol. I guess I'm strange that way...don't mind the cold at all. Really, I can take anything but unending humidity and heat.

As for my rank order, its less about weather and more a matter of economics and program 'fit'. Fortunately or unfortunately, the order on that list has changed a dozen times and may change a dozen more before wednesday. I actually really liked all the programs on my list.
 
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Please comment . Thanks!

1) mt. sinae - anesthesia chair / surgeons leaving...big negative impact on the program in the next couple yrs??

2) st. lukes - downside is that its a community hospital

3) nyu - ok program?

Not sure at all how to rank montefiore, downstate, stonybrook, st vinnys....
4) montefiore - bad vibe from the interviewers/pd

5) downstate - ??

6) stonybrook - its far from the city but fresher air.... a strong program?

7) st vincents - very small program

8) robert wood
9) udmj
10) westchester
 
Re: your question of NEMC vs. BU

NEMC has a strong children's hospital, good for pedi anes.
you get pedi level I trauma. seems to be the nicer
environment.

Adult level I trauma goes to BU. Residents rotate
to community hospital to get transplant experience.
residents have traditionally worked pretty hard, but
program may be trying to change...

my 2 cents.
 
your Mt. Sinai question:

program has been upfront about its chair retiring, new chair
will be chosen cerca March, too late for rank lists. about
5 of the prospects are internal candidates. whoever the new
chair is, this person will have to address how faculty will be
organized within the department and what to do about surgery
volume.

Mt. Sinai has apparently been under financial pressure for
some time, they lost bariatric surgeons (to Cornell), some
faculty have been interviewing for positions elsewhere in NYC.

my 2 cents.
 
your Mt. Sinai question:

program has been upfront about its chair retiring, new chair
will be chosen cerca March, too late for rank lists. about
5 of the prospects are internal candidates. whoever the new
chair is, this person will have to address how faculty will be
organized within the department and what to do about surgery
volume.

Mt. Sinai has apparently been under financial pressure for
some time, they lost bariatric surgeons (to Cornell), some
faculty have been interviewing for positions elsewhere in NYC.

my 2 cents.
 
My rank list is based upon how cool of a pen I got from the Program.

1) Emory - by far the best pen of the interview tour. Silver, heavy weighted with a tight fitting cap. Ergodynamic and smooth writing style. Cost at least $30-40.

2) BWH - nice pen. Parker look alike. Burgundy motif with black and gold rimming. Tip comes out with a slick turn of the wrist. Clearly a faux of the real thing though. Loses points for that.

3) MGH - no pen. Can you believe that!! Who are they kidding. You can't draw anybody to a program nowadays without a pen.

4) JHU - they didn't give me a pen either. That's not their fault though - they may have given the other applicants pens, but I was 45 minutes late. They probably ran out.

5) Cornell - who can afford a pen in new york anyway?

Spots 2,3, and 4 are up for grabs, but Emory takes the cake. No joke.

:D
 
The list is long, but here's the ones that count. My top four.

1) Columbia: Solid clinical trainig, decent didactics, excellent peds, okay regional, great opportunities for research/academics, chairman very approachable, residents seem happy, chance to moonlight, and a chance to enjoy a brief time in Manhattan (when I'm not catching up on sleep). Liked the residents, but there didn't seem to be a lot of camraderie. None-the-less, they seemed happy.

2) Duke: Solid Clinical training, solid didactics, excellent regional, great peds, the hospital is amazing, and the opportunities for research are excellent. Residents were great, and I had a blast hanging out with them while I was there. I'm not sure I want to live in Durham at this point in my life though. Beautiful place, gorgeous surroundings, fantstic beaches not too far away, but I've lived in smaller cities for a long time and am curious to try out something different (Manhattan is very different). It was a tough and close tie between the two which I may change in a fit of last minute maddness.

3) BI: Loved the people. Staff were great to talk with, residents were all approachable and very happy. Peds was amazing, and the clinical training was solid. Research is okay, but being in the harvard system affords a lot of opportunites to connect with others locally, which is a great potential. Living. . . Boston summers are fantastic. A very close 3rd.

4) Cornell. I liked the residents here the best. They were the closest to the kind of people I'm surrounded by now and feel I'd fit in with best. Opportunities for research are there, but no-one specifically in the area I'm interested in. Excellent regional, decent didactics, decent peds, and Manhattan in a very liveable way. For me the tough part that put them lower is the discord amongst the residents right now. The new surgeons from Sinai have increased the work-load for the residents, which I'm now averse to, but it's also increased the unpredictability. For me that was the most important part, and what I believe has caused so much strife for the residents at this point. While research opportunities are important to me, and Cornell doesn't have the set up of the four for me to go in the direction I'm looking at, I probably would have ranked them one or two if it weren't for these issues. The crux is that the PD, Swamidoss, is fantastic, seems to be a great resident advocate, and is actively working to correct this situation. Signing up to be there in a year's time with the likelyhood that things might not improve, or might get worse just seems like a gamble to me. A frustratingly difficult fourth.

My decisions are all based on the impressions I've garnered over the past few months. If you've got any additional or different information, I'd be happy to hear it. . . might make the final decision easier.
 
All right, I've made some big decisions here- this will likely be my final ROL:

Sinai
Cornell
Columbia
BWH
BID
BU
NEMC
NYU
SLR
SV

As you can see, there is a heavy bias toward NYC programs, since that's where I want to live in the future, and where I want my social network and professional contacts to be. The pros/cons of Sinai vs. Cornell are pretty close for me. Overall, I felt more at home at Sinai. I'm convinced the program gives you fine training in all areas of practice, and their simulator experience during initial training is brilliant.
 
You guys make good arguments for your rank lists. I do disagree w/ the "unpredictability" of Cornell though. There really is no increased work-load because of the new surgeons from Sinai. If anything, the bariatric guys have allowed the "difficult airway rotation" for CA-2's to be more exciting=> the obese folks are good practice fiberoptically and w/ other devices (ilma's, etc). The statement regarding "correcting the situation" doesn't make too much sense, because there isn't much to correct. The new call system has greatly benefitted the CA-1 and 2's. The CA-3's are used to the old system and have no interest in doing the team leader thing at this poitn, but the CA-1 and 2's are definitely interested, so that's the direction the place will go. The above may have been what you perceived as the "discourse" among the residents, because I can't think of anything else it could have been. As far as research, you are right, if no one does what you are interested in, then it would be hard for you to do things. Check out my post on "NYC programs" as there are a few links to the faculty web pages there that may be of help. This list is not complete. I think it only covers the attendings who have their own labs, but others do research as well. Overall, both Sinai and Columbia are great places. You guys will do fine at either.
 
Does anyone know about NEMC pain program. Do they actually have one b/c I heard they got rid of the group there.
 
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yes, pain clinic is gone b/c it was losing money,
pain docs now operating privately. I think there
are plans to send residents there, but I'm not sure.
 
Still waffling between the top 4 (abc order): BID, Columbia, NWU, UPenn.

It may seem like an odd group, but certain things led me here...

Important things to me are obviously training, location, rep, and lifestyle (in that order). Since pretty much all university programs will give you good training, that negates the first element and leaves just loc vs. rep vs. lifestyle. as deciding factors. After those selection criteria, I came up with those four as the final candidates.

Since I'm a (relatively) lazy guy, things like FREE WEEKENDS are very important. I don't mind working hard during the week, staying until 7-8 whatever, as long as I get at least 2 weekends/month off regularly. And one of the most annoying things to me is when I find out that we're promised at least 2 off, and more often than not are lucky to have only one! So if anyone has any inside info about this, please let me know. :)

And I'm partial to traveling back home at least once a month (prolly $200 roundtrip), so having available MOONLIGHTING is a definite plus.

One more thing---I'm definitely going to do a fellowship, most likely pain or cardiac. Excepting BID (which we've already heard a good deal about), I haven't heard much about the quality/rep of pain fellowships at Columbia, NWU, or UPenn....

Anybody with further thoughts about these programs? I know its getting late, with only one more day to go, so any input would be greatly appreciated. Yikes!! :)
 
Scoobydum,

Here's an interesting tidbit of info regarding BID: when I interviewed with the PROGRAM DIRECTOR there, I asked about inservice exam performance and was told that it ranges from the 30th-80th percentile, with the goal being to reach the 50th percentile!!! And this was with the vaunted didactics and intraop teaching. Needless to say, I was pretty shocked especially since it came straight from the PD's mouth. On the one hand, I appreciated her candor and honesty, but hearing those sort of numbers from a quote-unquote Harvard program was unsettling, to say the least. I was originally going to rank it highly, especially since it does have the Harvard name, but numbers are numbers and they don't lie.... For those of you who have been seduced by the Harvard name, I would recommend thinking twice about BID because it is far from the caliber of MGH and BWH.

One more objective piece of info: there is a good chunk of IMGs as residents in the upper levels (from the Caribbean, overseas, etc.), which is another thing that led me to believe its reputation isn't as stellar as the other Harvard programs, which have very few. The IMG factor is an important thing to consider, since most "top" programs didn't accept them even in the bad years of anesthesia, and some chose to go unfilled rather than place less than qualified applicants. No offense to the IMGs out there.

Just my two cents, take from it what you will.
 
Her it is. Please commment if anyone knows something I don't

1) U of chicago
2)BWH
3) MGH
4) Cornell
5)Stanford
6) Michigan
7) U of Wash
8) Northwestern
9 Columbia

I seemed to think U of Chicago was head and shoulders above all other Chicago programs in almost every way-(except maybe facilities). It seems other people think differently. any comments?

Good luck everybody
 
Thanks Dr. Octopus and Lakerjock!!



Does anyone have any further input/inside info about BID, NWU, UPenn, or Columbia in regards to the factors I mentioned earlier?





P.S. Thanks to everyone who's been posting freely and candidly! I've been following this forum for some time now, and I gotta say the Anesthesia posters are probably the most helpful and least cutthroat people out there. Kudos!
 
Dr. Octopus-
something to remember is that "passing" on the Boards is anything above 35 percentile....
 
Hey. A raw score of 50% on the in-service is actually pretty good. At Cornell, anyone who gets a 75%ile on the actual boards after CA-2 will have their real boards paid for by the department (in addition to the annual book/conference money).... So a 50% on the in-service means you aren't far off from passing the real deal. That's probably why the PD told you these numbers... he is proud of them.
 
Somedude,

From what the PD told me, her numbers were the final scaled (not raw) scores. BID is working towards the residents' average scaled score being in the 50th percentile (=smack in the middle of the pack, NOT 50% correct on the actual exam). The overwhelming majority of places I interviewed at had residents scoring in the 70th percentile on up. And no, she didn't seem particularly proud of those numbers and spent some time discussing/rationalizing them.

Sleepydoc, I agree that to pass your boards you only need a 35 or 36 raw score (out of how many, I'm not sure). The reason that BID's stats turned me off was that I had expected them to be significantly higher than what I was told. Obviously, the most important factor in doing well is your own individual effort, but solid didactics/intraop teaching can also go a long way. I can think of two explanations: 1) the residents themselves (weren't studying enough, lack of time, poorly qualified, etc.) or 2) clinical instruction was lacking. In either case, the overall reputation of the program suffers in my mind.

Probably like most of us here, prior to interviewing there, I didn't know much about it other than it was one of the 3 Harvard programs. As such, my early impression was that it was one of the "big guns" in the anesthesia world. From what I gleaned on the interview day as well as during conversations with residents on a 2nd look (which I already related in a previous post), it seems that this is not the case.

Look guys, I'm not putting anyone down, deterring anyone from applying to BID, or trying to pick a fight. I'm just mentioning things that I wish had known beforehand. I hope this proves helpful to some people and that it encourages further postings about the reality of programs. That's all.

BTW, Good luck to everyone!! :)
 
fyi, just to clarify the ABA board exam.

You do not receive a 'raw score' with your results. The only score you are given is a 'scaled score' (1-60).

You also receive a sheet of paper comparing scaled scores to a percentile ranking with other people at the same level of training.


this year for ca-3s taking the exam for 'real':

a scaled score of 1 to 22 would put you in the 1st percentile (not good).

a scaled score of 34 would put you in the 27th percentile (you passed).

a scaled score of 41 would put you in the 78th percentile.

a scaled score of 48-60 would put you in the 99th percentile.


therefore....
a program with its residents scoring 30-80 percentile would have a 100% pass rate.

now, i dont know if BID has a 100% pass rate, but that is how the numbers fall.
 
Doctor Octupus-I am not sure exactly what the PD told you about board scores but based on what I know from rotating at all three Harvard anesthesia programs and speaking to as many residents and staff is as follows: BID has always had the highest board scores in the city. In many years in the past the program ranked amongst the highest in the country. I'm not sure which year you are stating as not having great scores but I'm sure there can be variation. Their CA-3 year has a few IMG's and D.O.'s but their other years are all AMG's from great schools. There may be one or two IMG in those years but they are top rated grads from around the world. The senior classes at BWH (especially) and MGH have IMG's as well. The chief resident at BWH was a DO a few years ago. Again, all Harvard programs take highly rated IMG's because they add diversity. All of the Harvard programs senior classes (as well as the rest of the US) are not as academically "strong" as people currently going into residency. Anesthesia is getting very competitive across the board. Board score percentiles and raw scores I believe are compared to several past years-not just that current year so all programs probably saw a dip in scores over the past years. (not sure about this) When board scores dipped in past years the residents at BID told me they started a written board review class. Now their scores are headed back up according to several attendings-so they were proactive. I think any dip that occured was a reflection of the quality of residents as opposed to a problem with teaching.

BWH has an extremely high board failure rate but you can't incriminate the entire program based on that one detail. Also BID residents almost NEVER fail the oral boards. Passing the boards does not necessarily make you a great anesthesiologist either. It is just a small part of the picture. For you to say that BID is not in the same caliber as the other Harvard programs is ludicrous. I'm not just saying that because it is my top ranked program. Of all the programs I have spent time at, BID had the most attending to resident face time. It had the most didcatics that the residents actually had time to go to. It had junior residents doing the most complex cases. It had the fewest fellows (see latest BWH program review-that's why it's #4 on my ROL). It had the happiest and most well adjusted and tightest residents by far. The resients had a life outside of the hospital.I don't mind if you discourage others from the program-It makes my chances better;)

Bottom line-all of the Harvard programs will make you an outstandng, highly trained competitive anesthesiologist. All have there plusses and minuses. It is one of the best cities in the country despite the cold. You got to go where you are going to be happy and fit in the best.
 
When I visited BID, I met probably 3-4 Caribbean grads (CA-2 or CA03).

Seems like somebody is kinda touchy here. :rolleyes:
 
There are no Caribbean grads in the CA1 or CA2 years at the BI. There is possibly 1 in the CA3 year.

As if it mattered. I think that most people are aware of the lean years regarding anesthesia residents.
 
since we are talking about Boston programs and board scores - here is an FYI... MGH:100% pass rate for past 2 years - we have a dedicated thursday afternoon lecture course that is taught primarily by Attendings who are also Examiners for the Oral boards (not a bad combo) (this lecture series starts after christmas and ends a month or so before boards, and a lot of people from CA-1 through CA-3 year attend - it is great for the CA-3s and wonderful learning of new material for the CA-1s/2s)
 
is it just me, or do a lot of anesthesia people like to throw around the phrase "head and shoulders above this and that?"

Still, nobody has any thoughts on Yale....besides a lousy location. Seems like a good program. Anybody have any thoughts on their critical care or peds? Are they hiding something?

PS. i Pm'd you Beantown and bdiddy.
 
Originally posted by supahfresh
is it just me, or do a lot of anesthesia people like to throw around the phrase "head and shoulders above this and that?"
Click to expand...

maybe it's because that's all we see of the patient during the surgery? :D
 
---------
MGH:100% pass rate for past 2 years - we have a dedicated thursday afternoon lecture ... etc.
---------

sad how these threads deteriorate into a pitch for a particular program...

...and how some of the more vocal posters somehow always steer the topic of coversation to the "quality" of the their program.
 
My top choice didn't need much deliberation.

1) UTSW
2) MCW
3) Penn State
4) NEMC
5) SLU
6) Stony Brook

Hope I don't have to go further down the list.

Best of luck to all.

Cheers.
 
1. Cleveland Clinic
2. U of Michigan
3. MCW
4. U of Rochester
5. U of Pitt
6. UT SA
7. MCV/VCU
8. GW
9. Georgetown

It was tough ranking the top 5, but this is what I've decided. Good luck to all... less than a month to go.:clap:
 
I could really use a hit of versed right about now. This rank list is F'n driving me nuts... I feel like I should go back and rework it all over again.

Must fight urge...3 more days...

:wow:
 
This is it:
1.BWH
2.MGH
3.UCLA
4.Stanfurd
5.BID
6.Mt Sinai (NY)
7.UCD
8.USC

GOOD LUCK on the Match!:clap:
 
To each, his/her own...24 hours and counting...

1. BWH (overall, seemed like a good place to be)

2. Cornell (liked the environment, strong group of residents)

3. MGH (didn't see myself in the dreary OR's)

4. UC Davis (great hours, outdoor activities, top private practice oriented program in my list)

5. Mt. Sinai (strong clinical, focus on teaching, strong NY network for jobs but not elsewhere, questions about its future surgery case mix)

6. SLR (strong program, quality leaders, can't go wrong with Columbia seal though you went to the other program)

7. Baystate (strong program based on attending feedback, good case mix, just obscure name and location)

8. UMass (strong didactics, teaching, less ideal location)

9. NEMC (missing pain clinic, lots of bread and butter, missing high volume of complex cases because they go elsewhere in Boston. Peds rocks)

10. St. E's (has pain clinic, nice people, case mix adequate but not outstanding)
 
well, here it is!

1) USCF
2) MGH
3) JHU
4) Michigan
5) Columbia
6) Duke
7) Cornell
8) BWH
9) UTSW


. . . whew! feels much better to figure that out. It's been soooo stressful trying to compare and contrast the programs, and soooo much organizing and work to see them all in detail. Luckily I'm pretty on top of things and well organized.

when do we have to have this submitted by anyway?
 
11:59 pm Eastern time (heads up to those in other time zones) TONIGHT!! :scared:
 
:scared:
kind of last minute, but here it is so far...

1.bwh
2.bid
3.virginia mason
4.slr
5.columbia
6.nyu
7.upenn
8.mcv

if i am not going into academics, will it matter if i go to a big name program? i think i may switch the top two. i loved virginia mason, but i don't see anyone mentioning it. any input??
 
Virginia Mason was a great program. The residents there were ll very happy and seemed very confident in their skills.
The program director and chairman were both very friendly and approachable, the resources at the hospital were fantastic, and they're well known for their regional training.
They pride themselves on having a "private hospital slant," while still maintaining a good involvement in the academic side of things, with numerous attendings on staff at U wash, and residents publishing papers.
Of note, your time is split between their hospital, Swedish, and another (I think), which is how they maintain the diversity of training to meet all the requirements.
My thoughts. . . great program, you'll come out well trained. I put them lower on my list because I've got an interest in academics and felt they're program, while making the academic side of anesthesia available and present, is more geared towards developing well trained private practitioners.
You can most certainly have an academic interest and have it fostered at VM, but I felt mine would be better attended to at some of the other programs I was looking at.

BTW. . . my previous post, two up, wasn't serious. Seems like budding anesthesiologists need to relax. . . I hate having to explain a joke (not that I've ever been that funny anyway).
 
Just finalized the ROL.

Good luck to all!!

Hello to my good friends Suphafresh and Ventdependent. Hope to come visit you guys in Chicago during residency. Its gonna be one big fiesta. Also would like to say good luck to all the people from AZCOM reading this post.

Positive vibes from here on out. No ill will towards anyone. Instant karma is a bad thing, especially during that third week in March.
 
Best of luck in your matching endeavors!

Best of luck to everyone else as well. This is a stressful time, but in a few years, when the fat checks start rolling in, the hardest decision you will have to make is what to do with all the $$$$$$$!


:laugh:
 
my thanks to everyone who's been contributing to these forums.
I've a feeling the posts are going to dwindle after midnight until match day.
Best of luck to everyone, I"m sure we'll all make fantastic CRNAs.
 
Good luck to everyone! My rank order list is nothing like everyone else's here. BWH, MGH, BID? I could only dream about ranking those kind of programs. But at least I have enough programs to rank to have a great chance of matching, 12. I'm sure everything will work out just fine....:D
 
So this is it 11:45 pm... Good luck to everyone! It was a fun interview season but I'm glad I (hopefully) won't have to go through that again. This place was really helpful in getting advice on programs though. I'm gonna celebrate the end of this madness with a cold Old Mil and a bucket of fried chicken now. March 18th will be here soon.
 
got this in at 11:49PM

BID
Sinai
NYU
SLR
UofC 3yr
St. Vincent
UofC 4yr
UofM
BU
UIC

Good luck to all:D
 
I agree with Drlee, (whom I am sure has an awesome rank list), I also could only dream of going to programs like MGH, BWH, and Stanford. Man, many of you guys are scary smart! I hope that with 13 programs, I match next year or else I will be applying for CRNA school!!!
This has been an awesome forum. When you go and look at some of the other specialty posts, you don't see nearly the communication and the quick wit. But then again that is why we are going into anesthesia. You have to feel sorry for all of those others who didn't see the light.

Good luck to everyone on Match Day!!! :)
 
Hey all..here is the run down of my finalized ROL

-UCSD :love: (rotated here, luv the progam, luv san deigo, the
best personality fit for me)
- Loma Linda (good program, bad location, but i would be just
as happy here for 3 years)
-USC (?? at least id be happy in Cali)
-U. Cinncinnati (I struggled with this one..I think id be happy
here and have a good clinical experince as well)
-Wash U (3) (Arghh..i really struggled with this one..great
program no doubt but unsure if id be happy here)
-Wash U (4)
-SLR (great program..but NY was a huge turn off)
-Robert Wood (good program that id be pretty happy at)
-Westchester (Arghh..:scared: )

I hope i did the right thing. It really came down to personality fit and location for me. Cali is home and i really want to get back there for residency and beyond. Good luck to all of you. I need a drink or somethin:smuggrin:
 
Here it goes....The deadlines past so I guess it final.


1. BWH
2. UAB
3. UVA
4. JH
5. Wake
6. Wash U
7. BI
8. NW
9. MGH
10. PENN


Thank god that is over!!!
 
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