Rank these programs by reputation

[Myostatin]

Hi All. Trying to get a sense of the relative academic reputation of a few programs that I don't have a good sense about (regarding cards fellowship) - I realize they're all good placed to train, but any thoughts on how they size up relative to each other?

U Michigan
U Pitt
UT Southwestern
Texas Heart
Vanderbuilt
BIDMC
University of Indiana
UCSD

Thanks!

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[runningdoc2008]

Regarding the academic program, I would say they are all pretty much excellent equivalent. I don't know off the top of my head, but I'm sure each of those programs have world-wide experts in certain fields.

Cardiology training is such that almost whereever you go you will get equivalent training. So, what are the differences between each of the high powered programs?

Well, to be honest, it doesn't matter for most fellows because they go wherever they can get in, but otherwise, choose whatever region suits your preference. If you have a specific clinical interest (ie: endothelial dysfunction, nitric oxide stuff, cardiac MRI), then a certain program that a certain expertise may be suited for you; however, that does not apply to most of us.

If you put a gun to my head and ask what is the general lay person's conception of the cardiology programs, I would guess the top tier includes

MGH/Harvard, UCSF, Duke, JHU, Wash U, and Mayo.

I may have exlcuded some that should be in here, and some people may take issue with some of these program. This sort of speculation highlights the ambiguity of the "strength" of different cardiology programs.

The programs you mentioned I would place in the next tier. That is if you told another cardiologist that you went to these programs, they would be as impressed as if you went to Duke , but if you told an average FP doc, they may not be as impressed.

While we all enjoy speculating on the relative strengths of cardiology programs, it is almost cliche to say that it is a meaningless exercise. That said, we all strive to get into the most prestigious programs, so we all want to know which ones those are.

My advise, if your interested in prestige, ask your non-medicine friends to rank the programs because that really all this exercise is good for.

 

[cardsboy08]

My best guess (I didn't apply to more than half of these):

U Michigan
UT Southwestern/Texas Heart (hard to say which goes above which)
Vanderbuilt
BIDMC
U. Pitt
University of Indiana

Don't know: UCSD

This might change depending on what area of cardiology you're concentrating on.

 

[grendelsdragon]

My advise, if your interested in prestige, ask your non-medicine friends to rank the programs because that really all this exercise is good for.

Most people trying to formulate their rank lists realistically figure academic reputation into their consideration. I think telling someone to ignore this aspect in academic training programs is too dogmatic.

In any case, there has been some mobility in high profile people in the past few years. For example, Ken Chien left UCSD to head MGH's CVRI. BIDMC got Tony Rosenzweig from MGH. UT Southwestern has been hurt by several high profile departures (R. Sanders Williams to be vice chancellor at Duke, Rick Lange to be chief at Johns Hopkins, and recently L. David Hillis to be chair at UT San Antonio).

Anyway, I would probably place BIDMC, UCSD, and UT Southwestern high on this list.

 

[runningdoc2008]

To grendelsdragon:

I too am guilty of having attempted to rank programs by their preceived academic prestige. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that most cardiology applicants do not have the luxury of choosing which programs they get into, and matching into your 4th, 5th, 6th choice is common.

Knowing what I know now, I would still rank all the following programs pretty equivalent:

U Michigan
U Pitt
UT Southwestern
Texas Heart
Vanderbilt
BIDMC
University of Indiana
UCSD

For cardiology, Indiana is particularly strong; however, because it is in Indiana and because it does not have the name recognotion as Texas Heart, it may unfairly be looked down upon.

If I, personally, were trying to formulate this rank list, I would base it more on a specific interest (ie. which program has an attending who is into endothelial dysfunction, which program has transplant, which program is known for amyloid) as all the above programs have similar academic reputations. Most residents do not have a specific clinical interest; however. Then, I would just rank the above programs based on where I would want to be for the next 4-5 years or where I had the most friends/family. I think if you got an interview at MGH, BW, or UCSF, go for it, simply for the name recognition, but realize that those places are also research institutions looking for committments to research. Still, plenty of those guys go into private practice anyways.


I am all for getting into the strongest program you can get into. Regardless of your career focus, a stronger program opens more doors for you; however, the point I was trying to make (possibly unsuccessfully) is that in the subspecialty world, amongst subspecialists, the above programs (to me) appear to be equivalent in academic reputation.

 

[IgnacioChavez]

Agree with what peeps have said before, and all lists are arbitrary, but cant resist... and based on reputation and location I would rank..

Same - UT Southwestern (if research oriented)/Texas Heart (if private practice)
U Michigan
BIDMC
U Pitt
UCSD
Vanderbilt
University of Indiana

Besides your 'hard' creds, I think the cards fellowship you get into depends a lot on the research path that you are on (hard to get into a place where no one is working on your area), easier if you are a basic scientist and they are looking for you.

 

[grendelsdragon]

Hi Runningdoc,

I think we have a lot of mutual agreements on this topic. Overall, it seems geography was not a major concern for Myostatin since his list hits on north, south, east, west, and central areas of the continental US.

Contemporary applicants for competitive specialty fellowships often find themselves in a tough situation. Most competitive programs are highly research oriented, but it is often very difficult to formulate a research interest without first having had adequate exposure to practicing the field. The politics of this situation leads most applicants to develop a nice story to pitch admins a research trajectory that is contiguous with thier prior accomplishments. This calculus is a fact of life, but the applicant has to keep in mind the potential for discovering his/her unique niche/trajectory during fellowship. The desired program should have enough open avenues to discover his/her calling. This is very exaggerated, but programs with good overal academic reputation often have more to offer in this regard.

 

[runningdoc2008]

well said