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"Ranked to match"

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b&ierstiefel

    check...heard "ranked to match" from one program so far.
    heard "top candidate" from another program.
    repeated phone calls from one program.
    phone call from PD at my home institution's program too.

    Logos', we've talked about most of this so on my end (except the last line), nothing's new.

    glad things are going well for you too :thumbup: from what i know about you, you're one of the best candidates out there.
     
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    cytoborg

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      "Ranked to match" from 1 program, "one of the year's very best candidates" from 2 programs, one of which managed to sound convincing that I might be ranked to match without them actually saying so. But I think unless they actually say you are ranked to match, there is a lot of wiggle room. You might indeed be one of their 10 best candidates, but oops, they only have 6 spots...
       

      stormjen

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        All I've gotten is "very competitive" from programs, which is a load of crap to me since I'm at best an average applicant. I wish it were not the case, but I had a lot of stuff going on during med school that detracted from my academic performance. So when they say stuff like that, I take it with a huge grain of salt.

        Although, some programs do seem to take into consideration your demonstration of genuine interest in path, and I do have that down.
         
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        b&ierstiefel

          Logos' said:
          We have all heard that it is not wise to believe PD/chairs when they make vague statements about competitiveness but what about verbal/written commitments that "you are ranked to match" etc. I have had a lot of recent communication from programs and am wondering what to think, so here is an anonymous survey to see how many of us have received this kind of communication and from where. Could only list 20 programs and I picked them a bit randomly, no slight intended.
          On second thought, if the poll only allows you to list 20 programs...it may not be worth the trouble creating such a survey. Obviously, there are so many programs and we would want a survey to be useful to everyone. Instead, and in agreement with you earlier, the prudent thing to do--and this would serve to help out NEXT year's applying class--is to just spill the beans out on this thread or a related thread that has to do with communication/feedback from programs. And we could do this at early as Feb. 24th but most likely after Match Day when all the stress has dissipated and all this hubbub is behind us.
           

          RyMcQ

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            stormjen said:
            All I've gotten is "very competitive" from programs, which is a load of crap to me since I'm at best an average applicant. I wish it were not the case, but I had a lot of stuff going on during med school that detracted from my academic performance.

            Academic performance isn't everything. (And you'd be surprised at how bad some applicants are in that area, too.) Just because applications from U.S. seniors are up this year, don't assume that they are all stars.
             

            yaah

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              Last year I was explicitly told "ranked to match" by one program and told "you will have no problem matching here" (whatever that means) by 5 others. I was also called
              "highly competitive," "Extremely competitive," and "A top candidate." So I have no idea what these terms mean. The programs where I thought I was competitive but far from a guaranteed lock (some of the big name programs) told me "You are a strong candidate and we would love to have you come here" which is a complete cop out because there are probably about 30 candidates they say that one to.

              And yes, academic performance isn't everything.
               
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              b&ierstiefel

                yaah said:
                I was also called "highly competitive," "Extremely competitive," and "A top candidate." So I have no idea what these terms mean. The programs where I thought I was competitive but far from a guaranteed lock (some of the big name programs) told me "You are a strong candidate and we would love to have you come here" which is a complete cop out because there are probably about 30 candidates they say that one to.
                Dude, you're a mood-killer. I feel so unspecial. Thanks. Now I'm gonna go to Quiznos and eat, eat more, and keep eating until I fall asleep.
                 

                yaah

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                  AndyMilonakis said:
                  Dude, you're a mood-killer. I feel so unspecial. Thanks. Now I'm gonna go to Quiznos and eat, eat more, and keep eating until I fall asleep.

                  I wouldn't feel unspecial - I think people run the gamut from hearing these comments and saying "This is fantastic" to saying "They don't mean anything." The thing is, they are not going to tell this to people that they don't like. It is a good sign. It might not mean you are #1 on their list but it also means you are on the list. The whole matching process is complicated and kind of annoying, but it works out well for most people.
                   
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                  b&ierstiefel

                    yaah said:
                    I wouldn't feel unspecial - I think people run the gamut from hearing these comments and saying "This is fantastic" to saying "They don't mean anything." The thing is, they are not going to tell this to people that they don't like. It is a good sign. It might not mean you are #1 on their list but it also means you are on the list. The whole matching process is complicated and kind of annoying, but it works out well for most people.
                    a little late for that buddy. i feel like i've been...

                    shot through the heart
                    and i'm to blame
                    they told me i suck
                    it's a bad thing!
                     
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                    b&ierstiefel

                      yaah said:
                      I think most programs don't do much in regards to this. There are a select few (a vocal few) that do it, so I think it tends to get exaggerated. I wouldn't worry.
                      i sent out a bunch of emails yesterday (well only 5) and got no responses. i think i pissed them off and dropped off their rank list.
                       

                      yaah

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                        AndyMilonakis said:
                        i sent out a bunch of emails yesterday (well only 5) and got no responses. i think i pissed them off and dropped off their rank list.

                        I know how that feels. ;)

                        Actually I didn't get responses to a lot of the ones I sent last year either, and I wondered if it meant anything. I doubt it. You may get a response in a few days or perhaps after they finish their rank list. Either way, don't stress about it. They are busy people. That being said though, a reply is a courteous response. But some people don't think replying to emails is that important.
                         
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                        b&ierstiefel

                          yaah said:
                          I know how that feels. ;)

                          Actually I didn't get responses to a lot of the ones I sent last year either, and I wondered if it meant anything. I doubt it. You may get a response in a few days or perhaps after they finish their rank list. Either way, don't stress about it. They are busy people. That being said though, a reply is a courteous response. But some people don't think replying to emails is that important.
                          i thought i would at least get a response from my #1. i mean...they emailed me first saying we hope you choose here. i'm like...awww yeah boy! send them an email. no response. this is killing me. i need another quiznos sub.
                           

                          yaah

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                            AndyMilonakis said:
                            i thought i would at least get a response from my #1. i mean...they emailed me first saying we hope you choose here. i'm like...awww yeah boy! send them an email. no response. this is killing me. i need another quiznos sub.

                            Did they send you a US mail letter? You can always use the "The PD is probably on vacation or at a conference" rationale. That worked for me last year.
                             
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                            b&ierstiefel

                              Logos' said:
                              Oops did not mean to post that one last night, was just playing around with the poll feature and it obviously went through (just before I PMd you Andy).

                              Long day in the unit so I don’t really have energy for the survey (and still agree with you Andy about something at a later date), but thanks everyone for sharing. I am not sure what to make of it all either but I can’t wait for 2/23 to at least get this decision off my mind.

                              Best of luck to everyone,
                              Logos’
                              one step at a time...

                              goal #1 - make it to 2/23 alive
                              goal #2 - ain't thinking about it...still focused on goal #1

                              unit work is looooong. get some good rest :thumbup:
                               
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                              2005

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                                Do programs ever send out "you suck" letters after one interviews? I'm curious if they ever tell a candidate they're not interested in them after they've interviewed. That would be harsh. Do they just send no correspondence at all or do they tell everyone the same meaningless crap whether they liked you or not?
                                 

                                yaah

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                                  2005 said:
                                  Do programs ever send out "you suck" letters after one interviews? I'm curious if they ever tell a candidate they're not interested in them after they've interviewed. That would be harsh. Do they just send no correspondence at all or do they tell everyone the same meaningless crap whether they liked you or not?

                                  I think if they are not interested they probably just won't say anything. It's kind of like the initial interview offering process - most programs if they are not going to interview you simply never contact you and instead leave you hanging in the breeze without concern for your feelings. I think if you have a bad interview and are not going to be ranked they are not going to take the time to tell you this. It's probably like a bad date, they think by ignoring you the problem will go away. :p In actuality though, they probably rank most people they interview, because interviews rarely raise significant red flags that the application didn't attest to.
                                   

                                  cytoborg

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                                    stormjen said:
                                    The chairman at my top choice told me during my interview "I doubt we wouldn't rank you". Ouch.
                                    :eek: Holy moly. That hurts. If it makes you feel any better, I had a similiarly luke-warm experience at one place. Damn. Sometimes I think they're just trying to be non-committal, but the message "Get lost" seems to come across anyway.

                                    I think most of the time they don't even bother to write if they're not interested.
                                     

                                    vetiver

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                                      i talked to a pd recently and they told me that i could call them after they made their rank list and find out where i was ranked. has this happened to anyone else? is this legal?

                                      i'm thinking that it's illegal for me to call and ask straight out where i'm ranked, but i could call and say something like "sooo, how did your ranking meeting go?"? i'd like to hear people's thoughts on how to handle this. thanks!
                                       

                                      yaah

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                                        vetiver said:
                                        i talked to a pd recently and they told me that i could call them after they made their rank list and find out where i was ranked. has this happened to anyone else? is this legal?

                                        i'm thinking that it's illegal for me to call and ask straight out where i'm ranked, but i could call and say something like "sooo, how did your ranking meeting go?"? i'd like to hear people's thoughts on how to handle this. thanks!

                                        That would be interesting, I am not sure how forthcoming they would be though. They may not tell you very much. It is legal though if they are offering the information, so long as there aren't any "deals" in there. Of course, finding out where you would be ranked isn't going to do anything except massage your ego or satisfy some curiosity. It isn't going to help anything at all, because you should still be ranking programs based on which ones you want to go to.
                                         

                                        stormjen

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                                          deschutes said:
                                          Two programs flat-out told me they don't participate in Match violations or anything remotely resembling such, and that communications from my end would not change things.

                                          A program told me recently that they don't give a hoot about match rules and I absolutely must tell them if I'm ranking them first so they can adjust their list accordingly. It made me feel uneasy because I probably won't rank them first, but I still want them to rank me highly, in case I don't get into my first choice. So it's like if I want them to rank me highly, I have to imply that I'm ranking them first. And I can't do that if I'm ranking them second or third, because I don't play that game, biatch.
                                           
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                                          Sage

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                                            stormjen said:
                                            A program told me recently that they don't give a hoot about match rules and I absolutely must tell them if I'm ranking them first so they can adjust their list accordingly. It made me feel uneasy because I probably won't rank them first, but I still want them to rank me highly, in case I don't get into my first choice. So it's like if I want them to rank me highly, I have to imply that I'm ranking them first. And I can't do that if I'm ranking them second or third, because I don't play that game, biatch.

                                            Same problem. I'm just going to tell them they are in my top 3 and leave it at that. Pretty sure I'll be dropping on their list. :(
                                             

                                            cytoborg

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                                              stormjen said:
                                              A program told me recently that they don't give a hoot about match rules and I absolutely must tell them if I'm ranking them first so they can adjust their list accordingly. It made me feel uneasy because I probably won't rank them first, but I still want them to rank me highly, in case I don't get into my first choice. So it's like if I want them to rank me highly, I have to imply that I'm ranking them first. And I can't do that if I'm ranking them second or third, because I don't play that game, biatch.
                                              Our dean strongly encouraged us to let him know if any match violations occur so that the school can advocate for us. You could say screw 'em and report it....or perhaps tactfully tell them that you don't feel comfortable with violating match rules and that you're ranking them highly but will have to leave it at that. Then again you could say screw 'em and go ahead and tell them you're ranking them #1. What can they do about it? Accuse you later of lying to them? You could throw the match violation right back at them.
                                               
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                                              b&ierstiefel

                                                cytoborg said:
                                                Our dean strongly encouraged us to let him know if any match violations occur so that the school can advocate for us. You could say screw 'em and report it....or perhaps tactfully tell them that you don't feel comfortable with violating match rules and that you're ranking them highly but will have to leave it at that. Then again you could say screw 'em and go ahead and tell them you're ranking them #1. What can they do about it? Accuse you later of lying to them? You could throw the match violation right back at them.
                                                our dean told us the same thing during his ranking seminar. he even told us to "blame him" when forced to commit by saying, "well according to our dean of students, we cannot....yada yada yada."

                                                I am in a similar situation and if I were to be ranking this institution high (i.e., in the top 3-4), then I would just say screw it and tell them #1 and face the stupid repercussions to only throw the violation right back in their face as cytoborg so eloquently pointed out. But I'm ranking them #10 so IDGAF!
                                                 

                                                EvilTaz

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                                                  I applied to 6 programs. Blatant outright match violations have occured from 2 programs (i.e. any final decisions? if you don't tell us there may be long-term repercussions if you need a job later, etc.), with very hard sells/questionable match violations from 2 others. I'm also not the only one from my school where this has happened. These match rules are a crock! I say screw them - any program which is so concerned with looking bad about going down a couple of extra slots on their match list is not a place I want to be. I'm into quality and not appearances.
                                                   
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                                                  b&ierstiefel

                                                    EvilTaz said:
                                                    I applied to 6 programs. Blatant outright match violations have occured from 2 programs (i.e. any final decisions? if you don't tell us there may be long-term repercussions if you need a job later, etc.), with very hard sells/questionable match violations from 2 others. I'm also not the only one from my school where this has happened. These match rules are a crock! I say screw them - any program which is so concerned with looking bad about going down a couple of extra slots on their match list is not a place I want to be. I'm into quality and not appearances.
                                                    Amen! :thumbup:

                                                    Of course, hopefully your #1 program dished out this rhetoric and they clearly want you (and hence rank you to match) in which case you're set.

                                                    Game
                                                    Set
                                                    Match!

                                                    go have a cold one!
                                                     

                                                    cytoborg

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                                                      EvilTaz said:
                                                      Blatant outright match violations have occured from 2 programs (i.e. any final decisions? if you don't tell us there may be long-term repercussions if you need a job later, etc.)
                                                      Repercussions if you need a job later?! Jeeeeeez! Is it really necessary to get so threatening about things? That has to be the fastest way to drive good candidates away!

                                                      How did you handle that? I definitely agree, that is NOT a place I would want to be!
                                                       

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                                                        I got the same call last year at home at 10 pm (!!!) from the chairman of a very highly ranked program nationally, asking me basically where I would rank them. I replied "you are one of my first choices" (they were number 4 of 4 ranked). He then asked "so should I expect to see you here come July?" I repeated "I am very excited about joining a program as strong as yours." He then said "well, great then, I am excited about having you come here, but should that change please let us know right away because you don't want to burn your bridges for the future: you might want to do a fellowship here or apply for a job." I thought I had played my cards right in evading the question but I got cornered. I had to call him the next morning and tell him that his program was not my first choice, but it was an agonizing experience nonetheless. You might want to prepare a response in your head for such a phone call because you will get it.
                                                         
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                                                        b&ierstiefel

                                                          pathres2 said:
                                                          I got the same call last year at home at 10 pm (!!!) from the chairman of a very highly ranked program nationally, asking me basically where I would rank them. I replied "you are one of my first choices" (they were number 4 of 4 ranked). He then asked "so should I expect to see you here come July?" I repeated "I am very excited about joining a program as strong as yours." He then said "well, great then, I am excited about having you come here, but should that change please let us know right away because you don't want to burn your bridges for the future: you might want to do a fellowship here or apply for a job." I thought I had played my cards right in evading the question but I got cornered. I had to call him the next morning and tell him that his program was not my first choice, but it was an agonizing experience nonetheless. You might want to prepare a response in your head for such a phone call because you will get it.
                                                          It sucks to be cornered and pressured like this. 10 pm though?!?!?! That's rude. I guess this kind of shenanigans happens because historically the far majority of people don't go below #1 on their rank lists. But times are changing and we applicants need to cover our asses...and that's why we rank a #2, #3, #4, etc. So what's the deal with the pressure. This crap should stop! So what if you don't get any commitment from the #1 program but #2-5 calls you up and says, "you rankin us #1? you rankin us #1 right?" And let's say we're honest and say, "I'm ranking you highly (i.e., NOT #1)." Then we're F'd in the A and we should just rank one program and one program only and pray to our respective gods that we get our #1 choice!

                                                          Kinda reminds me of when I was applying to MSTP many years ago. The PD at Vanderbilt calls me at 12 am, leaves a message saying, "please call me when you get this. I'll be up until 2 am." So I stumble into my apartment at around 1 am and I actually called him up. He tells me that I been accepted and keeps asking me if I would matriculate. In my drunken stupor, I kept asking him to send me that acceptance in writing and I would get back to him in writing. The **** never came in writing. Oh well. F*ck Vandy.

                                                          Note to self: andy should be a homebody for the next 2 weeks and refrain from going out just in case of the rare event that andy is called at TEN FRICKIN' PM from a PD or a chair.
                                                           

                                                          stormjen

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                                                            This thread is making me angry! I'm usually in bed by 9:30 pm, and if someone called and woke me up for something that wasn't an emergency, I would find it difficult to not raise hell. Knowing me, I'd get myself in trouble by asking them for their office phone number and telling them I'd call them back the next day during business hours.
                                                             
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                                                            b&ierstiefel

                                                              yaah said:
                                                              I didn't get any late night calls. Latest one I got was like 8pm. If someone wakes me up after I go to bed, I usually call them back when I wake up in the morning. They love that.
                                                              or i can go out as usual and leave my cell phone at home!

                                                              aha!
                                                              why didn't i think of this before?
                                                               
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                                                              b&ierstiefel

                                                                Logos' said:
                                                                I have not yet committed to anyone and have found that the programs I liked most have put the least pressure on me to choose. I got one call around 9:30 pm and it totally caught me off guard, but that may have been the idea.
                                                                Well Logos' you only got 2 more weeks to choose :)

                                                                Anyways, I have experienced similar things to you. No pressure from my top 5. #4 told me in so many words that I'm not ranked to automatically match. Boohoo. Time for me to cry and drink another beer. :rolleyes:

                                                                No late phone calls here so far yet. Great, i just jinxed mah-self.
                                                                 

                                                                doc4nsix

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                                                                  Yeah...what's this calling stuff?? TOTALLY caught me off-guard!! I got a call last night around 8 pm from a PD. He was really nice and there was no pressure for me to talk or comment at all. He just stated that if I wanted to be at this certain school...I would be there. I just wonder about the truth?? Do they ONLY call people who are "ranked to match"?? Do they call their top 10 and hope that a few people on the fence flip their list in the program's favor?? hmmm....THE MATCH SUCKS!!! Only 5 more weeks of this $#@! :barf:
                                                                   
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