This is too much like dating. Like how some chicks like pick-up lines while others consider it sexual harassment.
PDs, from my experience, call to see if you have any questions and start a conversation along the line of, "How can I convince you to come here?" Sometimes, a PD will call you to essentially tell you that you are ranked to match. Anything other than this, I doubt a PD would bother calling.doc4nsix said:Yeah...what's this calling stuff?? TOTALLY caught me off-guard!! I got a call last night around 8 pm from a PD. He was really nice and there was no pressure for me to talk or comment at all. He just stated that if I wanted to be at this certain school...I would be there. I just wonder about the truth?? Do they ONLY call people who are "ranked to match"?? Do they call their top 10 and hope that a few people on the fence flip their list in the program's favor?? hmmm....THE MATCH SUCKS!!! Only 5 more weeks of this $#@!
yeah, good question. i was pondering about this myself along with some other folks in the General Residency Issues forum. i ultimately decided to email my high up non-#1 programs that i would rank them highly in so many words. i hope that correspondences don't jeopardize our positions on their rank lists; in fact, they would be foolish to put you lower on their rank lists just because of this! what happens if you don't get your #1? well #2 has screwed themselves over if they really liked you but dropped you down their rank list just because of this "i will rank you very highly" type of correspondence. plus, i talked to my boss and advisor about crap like this. they told me that these letters, emails, phone calls, correspondences mean very little in the long run. they told me something along the lines of, "think about it, they are ranking you based on an application which took you lots of time to put together. then they interacted throughout the course of a day during your interviews. and now a simple letter telling the program that you're very highly interested is going to hurt you?"ddx said:so should you send a letter to your #2-4 stating that you're considering them highly? will they automatically think they're not #1 and rank you lower. or is it better to just keep your mouth shut if you're not asked?
path4 said:What are the match rules? I told an attending at a program I am hoping to go to that I'd really like to end up there - and he told me I was being inappropriate?! Bizarre!
See that's the problem! The Match algorithm favors the applicant! However, the program has the upper hand!yaah said:It is not inappropriate for you to tell them you would like to end up there, unless you qualify it with an "are you interested in me?" type of question. Give and take is not allowed if there is a potential for deals, etc. Of course, programs flaunt this rule all the time. Technically, if a program calls you and hints that you will be ranked high there if you agree to rank them high, you can tell them they are being inappropriate and threaten to report them. Potentially, you could have a very winnable lawsuit on your hands. Whether you want to start your career off like this is questionable, however.
It is a match violation for them to do this. That is the point. If you don't like it, you can report them.
I wouldn't call it a frenzy but I did receive two calls yesterday and a letter in the mail. Both calls involved, "Do you have any more questions; what can we tell you to convince you to rank us near the top?" or something like that. Seriously, if we had more questions we would have asked them already. I mean think about it, when programs call us, we only want to hear five words:cytoborg said:Anyone else experiencing a frenzy of last-minute phone calls and emails? The onslaught started for me a few days ago and hasn't let up yet. The problem is that my ranklist is still in limbo...walking the fine line of expressing my strong interest while remaining non-committal is tough. I don't want to seem uninterested, or political...and every phone call gets me all confused about my ROL all over again.
Then there's the whole "Do you have any more questions about our program?" Can't exactly ask the real questions like, "Will I screw myself out of a good job later if I go to your program?" or "Do you think I'll be treated like crap if I decide not to do academics?" or "Why aren't your residents getting better fellowships?"
They could just send emails with YARTM in the subject line. Save everybody a lot of angst.AndyMilonakis said:I wouldn't call it a frenzy but I did receive two calls yesterday and a letter in the mail. Both calls involved, "Do you have any more questions; what can we tell you to convince you to rank us near the top?" or something like that. Seriously, if we had more questions we would have asked them already. I mean think about it, when programs call us, we only want to hear five words:
or if brevity is your thing, YARTM.
I can see that happening. Definately will be avoiding the phone at all costs. Not that I don't enjoy the positive feedback, but every time they call I start sweating and stuttering like an idiot. It's stressful.AndyMilonakis said:Somebody said that there are a few PD's or department chairs that call the night before certified ROL's become final? My phone will be turned off from Feb 22nd 8 pm to Feb 23rd 9 pm.
And if it happens to be that they rank me lower just because I didn't pick up (thereby forgoing the opportunity to express that much more enthusiasm about a particular program)...well so be it. But, that's just not cool; in fact, it's totally lame.cytoborg said:I can see that happening. Definately will be avoiding the phone at all costs. Not that I don't enjoy the positive feedback, but every time they call I start sweating and stuttering like an idiot. It's stressful.
cytoborg said:Then there's the whole "Do you have any more questions about our program?" Can't exactly ask the real questions like, "Will I screw myself out of a good job later if I go to your program?" or "Do you think I'll be treated like crap if I decide not to do academics?" or "Why aren't your residents getting better fellowships?"
Just play it cool, man. Make a list of generic questions - "Well, saw that you're taking X applicants. How many total applicants are you ranking? Make small talk about what you liked about their program, tell them that you will rank them highly, and thank them for calling. Of course, if you don't like the program, omit the last 3 itemscytoborg said:I can see that happening. Definately will be avoiding the phone at all costs. Not that I don't enjoy the positive feedback, but every time they call I start sweating and stuttering like an idiot. It's stressful.
geddy said:Maybe you could reply "do you like me like me, or do you just like me?"
cytoborg said:Anyone else experiencing a frenzy of last-minute phone calls and emails?
Paranoia aside, I would tend to agree with you geddy. The programs that have called me have said that the important meetings have taken place and that the ROL is set and they are calling me to let me know roughly where I am on their list. I end up just telling them that I liked their program very much. Then I use the time to clarify certain key points about their program and it makes for a short discussion. Basically, the more talking they do, the better. All you gotta do is bring up a few points and let them do the talking. And they like talking so the more talking they do, they feel better about the conversation. Usually I end it with, "I think all of this is totally awesome....thank you for your call."geddy said:I highly doubt the conversation will have any impact on where you are ranked - most program rank list are finished, I'm sure. It's really just a way for them to tell you that they like you, while making it more personal. After all, they can't just call and say "we like you" - what would you say then? Maybe you could reply "do you like me like me, or do you just like me?"
stormjen said:No. But congratulations to you folks who are getting them.
I received cash in the mail. But I am resistant to such tacticsyaah said:Yaah 1, rest of path applicant world, 0.
Havarti666 said:I'm also listening to the crickets chirp. Perhaps we just applied to introverted programs.
AndyMilonakis said:You know what? Screw it all! Just give us our damn results on the 17th of March!
All this suspense...I can't take it anymore!
yaah said:Yeah, that sucked last year when I got that email on monday that said, "Congratulations! You have matched!" Yeah, no ****. So tell me where. I promise I won't tell anyone!
I seriously think the only reason they wait the next 3-4 days is so that people who didn't match and then scramble into a spot can feel better about themselves on match day when their name is up there like everyone else. But unless they live in a bubble, people are going to know that they were spending the last few days trying to find a spot. So just tell us!!
yaah said:So no one has received cash in the mail yet, or the very attractive "assistant professor" knocking on your door at 9pm with the offer to "convince you" to rank them higher?
Havarti666 said:I'm also listening to the crickets chirp. Perhaps we just applied to introverted programs.
I fedexed some oatmeal raisin cookies. The package was returned to me. It's their loss, really. They were damned good.stormjen said:No, but I showed up at a PD's door with cash and was promptly turned away.
There are a couple of programs I haven't heard diddly squat from, either. There seems to be a huge range of responses so I'm sure it depends on the program. Some programs showered me with positive feedback, cash, trips to Cabo, and cars. One program imperiously informed me that the fact that I was lucky enough to get an interview from them indicates that I am a strong candidate (same peeps who told me I had to rank them #1 if I wanted to be ranked at all)...another program told me thanks for the interest, and have a nice life. (ouch) Then complete silence from others. Who knows what it all means.Mrbojangles said:I haven't heard anything. Zilch, nada, zip... Not even from a few safeties I interviewed at. I feel like I'm repeating my medical school acceptance period when I was put on 4 wait lists and kept waiting into late July .
But seriously, my top choice told me I was ranked to match (woo hoo!!) so I've told all the other programs that they are not number one choice, or even told them I won't be going there. Bad choice? Maybe. But I like to live on the wild side. Plus, they stop calling/emailing/mailing me all the time which is a good thing.
There's nothing to feel bad about though. Consider the following two extreme scenarios:skoller said:That was gutsy and selfless, IMHO. My top choice told me YARTM, too, after which there was much celebration. Now, though, I'm feeling guilty about all the programs I told I would rank "very highly," when some of them are not now in fact ranked very highly at all, and when I am near certain that I will not be going there. I feel like I should do what EvilTaz did so that other applicants might move up on the lists at these programs ... anyone else in the same boat? I guess it's probably too late - doubtful a program would change its ROL based on anything I tell them now.
stormjen said:If I get into my top choice, I will buy everyone here a new Segway.