Ranking - Dental Schools

[dat_student]

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Ranking based on research and discoveries:
#1 UCSF (2x UMD)
#2 UMD
#3 U. of Minnesota
#4 UW
#5 U. of Mich.
#6 UPENN
#7 U.of Florida
#8 UNC
#9 UCLA
#10 U. of San Antonio

 

[Generallee]

Ranking based on research and discoveries:
#1 UCSF (2x UMD)
#2 UMD
#3 U. of Minnesota
#4 UW
#5 U. of Mich.
#6 UPENN
#7 U.of Florida
#8 UNC
#9 UCLA
#10 U. of San Antonio

Hmmm... Interesting choices... 🙂

 

[dat_student]

Hmmm... Interesting choices... 🙂

not my choices...That's a fact

 

[howui3]

where are you getting this crap! ucla is much higher and Harvard is for sure in top 10!

 

[Utes]

Does Harvard get to count research from the Forsyth institute? Isn't there some relationship between the two places? Forsyth has some pretty cool stuff going on there.

Utes

 

[dat_student]

where are you getting this crap! ucla is much higher and Harvard is for sure in top 10!

UCSF said that during my interview. Actually, I was very surprized to see Harvard and Columbia are not in top 10.

 

[LIer2010]

Research discoveries do not necessarily correlate to quality of dmd/dds training program. Unless you're going for a combined phd program, this ranking is meaningless for regular applicants.

 

[drhobie7]

Research discoveries do not necessarily correlate to quality of dmd/dds training program. Unless you're going for a combined phd program, this ranking is meaningless for regular applicants.

I agree. The relevance of this to your education is most likely zero.

 

[oldboy]

Ranking based on research and discoveries:
#1 UCSF (2x UMD)
#2 UMD
#3 U. of Minnesota
#4 UW
#5 U. of Mich.
#6 UPENN
#7 U.of Florida
#8 UNC
#9 UCLA
#10 U. of San Antonio

Based on what criteria???

 

[donkeywhisperer]

Based on what criteria???

Based on awesomeness.

 

[organichemistry]

where are you getting this crap! ucla is much higher and Harvard is for sure in top 10!

based on what? you do realize that a university's undergraduate programs and medical schools have little to no (closer to no) bearing on a dental school, right?

 

[dat_student]

...you do realize that a university's undergraduate programs and medical schools have little to no (closer to no) bearing on a dental school, right?

I agree
According to the US News' ranking of the top graduate schools:

Top 10 medical schools (research)
1. Harvard University
2. Johns Hopkins University
Washington University in St. Louis
4. Duke University
University of Pennsylvania
6. UCSF = University of California San Francisco
7. Columbia U. College of Physicians and Surgeons
8. Stanford University
University of Michigan Ann Arbor
10. Yale University
************************
Top 10 medical schools (primary care)
1. University of Washington
2. Oregon Health & Science University
3. UCSF = University of California San Francisco
4. Mich. State U. Coll. of Osteopathic Medicine
5. University of Minnesota Duluth
6. University of California San Diego
University of New Mexico
University of Wisconsin Madison
9. University of Iowa (Roy J. & Lucille A. Carver)
University of Minnesota Twin Cities
University of Rochester

************************
According to UCSF and based on NIH funding:
Top 10 dental schools (research):
#1 UCSF (2x UMD)
#2 UMD
#3 U. of Minnesota
#4 UW
#5 U. of Mich.
#6 UPENN
#7 U.of Florida
#8 UNC
#9 UCLA
#10 U. of San Antonio

 

[Comet208]

Agreed, but medical, dental, vet, opt, and grad programs are separate entities with separate funding sources hence the separate rankings. Don't be fooled (unless you want to).

 

[kiggar4l2000]

UCSF said that during my interview. Actually, I was very surprized to see Harvard and Columbia are not in top 10.

Hmm.. I find that surprising as well. But maybe they're playing tricks with the way they phrased the ranking. I'm sure that UCSF gets lots of funding for research (maybe #1) but that doesn't necessarily mean that they send most students to specialty programs, which I know for sure Columbia is one of the top 5 in the nations (I work for a doctor who graduated from Columbia c/o 2004).

So it's not necessarily [research funding = specialty program]. We need to be careful to not jump into that correlation immediately, even though that's often the case. Harvard for example is not the school to go to be a practicing dentist (so I heard)..but to be a teaching dental academian (ph.d.)

I'm sure most SDNers who plan to do research are seeking to get into a specialty program and in that sense...that ranking really doesn't matter.

my 2 cents

 

[jpollei]

Ranking based on research and discoveries:
#1 UCSF (2x UMD)
#2 UMD
#3 U. of Minnesota
#4 UW
#5 U. of Mich.
#6 UPENN
#7 U.of Florida
#8 UNC
#9 UCLA
#10 U. of San Antonio

Research rankings are nice...but unless you are looking at a career in academics, these rankings pale in comparison to many other factors you should consider when choosing a school to attend. (I had no idea when I applied that my school is on this list.) And take with a grain of salt ANYTHING you hear at an interview--my program states they are 4th in NIH funding (not 8th) according to the latest figures. So regardless of who is correct, make sure you are comparing apples and apples.

Keep in mind that these rankings vascillate from year to year, so what you see now may be very different by the time you finish dental school. For example, I understand one of the faculty at my school just received a multi-year grant in the tens-of-millions of dollars range...who knows how that will change our "ranking" for next year. And to be honest, most of us don't care. We still have the same patient experience, same instructors, etc. That is what will matter to most of us that want to go into a clinical practice setting instead of a career in research.

 

[Sprgrover]

not my choices...That's a fact

And what certifies this as a "fact?" There are no formal, certified rankings of dental schools. Period. Why? Here is one explaination offered by Dr. Dominick P. DePaola, the former president of Baylor College of Dentistry:

"To my knowledge, there have only been two individuals or organizations that have ranked dental schools; US News and World Report in 1993 and The Gourman Report on a periodic basis. Both organizations have multple flaws in the methodology of ranking the schools....The major problem is that the rankings were based on the perception of Deans, administrators, faculty and others about the relative quality of the schools and not on any objective criteria that compared "apples to apples".

What is the basis of the ranking? Funds received from NIH and WHO? Research opportunities, faculty to student ratios? Is it based on the skill level of recent gradauates and long-term success of them? How nice the lobby wallpaper coordinates with the drapes? I have seen this ranking with UCSF at the top on SDN multiple times and I understand it is UCSF that has spun the ranking through some secrete ADA information. This leads me to another question: to what purpose is data being interpreted and manipulated? Don't naively ingest data such as this as fact and don't be blind to the line between opinionated and objective.

 

[dat_student]

And what certifies this as a "fact?" .....
What is the basis of the ranking? Funds received from NIH and WHO? Research opportunities, faculty to student ratios? ...

UCSF says it's building a multi-billion dollar research center in Mission Bay. State of California pays for all the costs.

Number of current major sites in San Francisco: 12

Projected completion date of Mission Bay campus: 2020

Projected number of employees at completed Mission Bay campus: 9,000

Research awards from all sources: $723 million

Research awards from public sources: $593 million

Overall national ranking* of UCSF's National Institutes of Health funding: 4
*medicine, dentistry, pharmacy, etc.

Current Nobel laureates: J. Michael Bishop and Harold Varmus, 1989, for discovery of proto-oncogenes, showing that normal cellular genes can be converted to cancer genes; Stanley Prusiner, 1997, for discovery of prions, an entirely new infectious agent implicated in rare, slowly progressing brain diseases such as mad cow disease.

Number of National Academy of Science members: 34

Number of Institute of Medicine members: 63

Number of life science companies with direct roots to UCSF inventions, technology or personnel: nearly 70

Number of patents: more than 750 issued foreign patents, including seven of the UC system's top 11 revenue producers — hepatitis B vaccine, yeast expression vector, aids for learning disabled, a cochlear implant helping deaf people to hear, a technique for delivering medicines to the body's cells, a form of recombinant DNA used for the production of therapeutic agents, and magnetic resonance imaging.

UCSF School of Dentistry ranks second in total expenditure per student ($137,403 per student)

UCSF School of Dentistry ranks 1st in funds received for sponsored education, research and training programs.

**************
"Striving to better, oft we mar what's well"
Shakespeare - King Lear

INTERVIEWS: UCLA, UCSF, UPENN, Columbia, UCONN (University of Connecticut), University of Maryland, Boston University, University of Pittsburgh, Temple University, Indiana University, Case Western Reserve University, UMKC, UMDNJ, Nova, I don't recall the rest [I won't go to all interviews]

 

[phremius]

this is one of those things that pre dent douchebags and only predents post about cause they're *****s and have no idea that none of this BS will ever matter once they start school.

 

[dat_student]

this is one of those things that pre dent douchebags and only predents post about cause they're *****s and have no idea that none of this BS will ever matter once they start school.

I agree with you. I think all predents should toss a coin to decide which school is best for them. I am surprized why Howard is not anyone's number #1 choice when nothing really matters once you start school. Who cares how much money a school spends per student? Who cares about the quality of faculty? Who cares about the number of patient visits? Who cares about money received for training students? Who cares how much debt you have when you get your degree? Who cares about cutting-edge research opportunities? Who cares about taking elective classes with top scientists in the world? Who cares about whether a school has all the specialties? Who cares whether or not you can get a letter of recommendation from a Nobel prize laureate or a member of national academy of science when you apply for a specialty? I guess only *****s pay attention to those issues. I don't work for UCSF and I haven't even received an acceptace letter from UCSF. I was given those numbers and I posted them for others to know.

 

[Sprgrover]

UCSF says it's building a multi-billion dollar research center in Mission Bay. State of California pays for all the costs....

So its based on research and government funding of the parent institution. It's wonderful that UCSF proper has so many ties to industry and footnotes in peer review journals, but once again, a lot more goes into a dental education and a dental school than these items. How much of an impact will all that stuff - nobel laureates, which if you are lucky will step down and give a guest lecture at the dental school, industry ties that you won't be a part of, far flung sites that don't deal with dentistry, and so on - have on your dental education? Not much. Trust me, during your first two years you are going to be scrambling from exam to exam and the aura of the discovery of proto-onco genes will fade in the light of the GRD lab. What's GRD? Perhaps you should look into the many areas, such as this, that entail a dental education when evaluating dental schools. Just because a school receives 'X' amount of money for some research on an MPF gene doesn't mean you are going to be a better practitioner for it. Taking one slice out of a very subjective pie and using it to demarcate superior and inferior is very myopic. It's one thing to state that the parent institution recieves the most funding for X and it is another to declare that the dental school is the best based on these select, larger findings. It is important to approach data - surveys and statistics - with a critical eye and not to just swallow information as fact. All of this is of course is beside the fact that, once again, there are no official rankings of dental schools.

 

[iambatman]

ummm...who cares?

people are attracted to different things:

some people like their woman with thunder thighs, others like their women with pencil legs.

some people like their dental schools with windows, and others don't (cheap shot at UF)

Overall, it's about finding a program that fits YOU.

No school is better than the other - YES, TO YOU IT IS! but to us, we don't care what YOU think is best, because it adapts to YOUR needs.

We are all unique, and looking for something that we can adapt to!

See where i am getting at? (THIS POST SHOULD BE MADE STICKY)

 

[dat_student]

So its based on research and government funding of the parent institution. It's wonderful that UCSF proper has so many ties to industry and footnotes in peer review journals, but once again, a lot more goes into a dental education and a dental school than these items. How much of an impact will all that stuff - nobel laureates, which if you are lucky will step down and give a guest lecture at the dental school, industry ties that you won't be a part of, far flung sites that don't deal with dentistry, and so on - have on your dental education? Not much. Trust me, during your first two years you are going to be scrambling from exam to exam and the aura of the discovery of proto-onco genes will fade in the light of the GRD lab. What's GRD? Perhaps you should look into the many areas, such as this, that entail a dental education when evaluating dental schools. Just because a school receives 'X' amount of money for some research on an MPF gene doesn't mean you are going to be a better practitioner for it. Taking one slice out of a very subjective pie and using it to demarcate superior and inferior is very myopic. It's one thing to state that the parent institution recieves the most funding for X and it is another to declare that the dental school is the best based on these select, larger findings. It is important to approach data - surveys and statistics - with a critical eye and not to just swallow information as fact. All of this is of course is beside the fact that, once again, there are no official rankings of dental schools.

I agree but I never said UCSF is the best dental school. As you mentioned, dental schools are not ranked. I said UCSF School of Dentistry believes that it's number 1 in research based on NIH funding and other criteria mentioned above. UCSF School of Dentistry claims that it has received the highest NIH funding for the past 13 years (i.e. since 1992). UC Berkeley, Stanford, Harvard and UPENN are also very research oriented schools. UPENN is in top 5 in medicine and dentistry based on NIH funding and research involvements. I love UPENN and it is definitely one of my top choices. One thing that surprized me about UCSF is: No faculty interviewed me. I was interviewed by 2 students. 😕 I liked the students. Everybody was very friendly but I was very surprized to see my last 15% (15 points) would be determined by students. Very very very very very strange and perhaps the only exception.

 

[nothen2do]

I agree but I never said UCSF is the best dental school. As you mentioned, dental schools are not ranked. I said UCSF School of Dentistry believes that it's number 1 in research based on NIH funding and other criteria mentioned above. UCSF School of Dentistry claims that it has received the highest NIH funding for the past 13 years (i.e. since 1992). UC Berkeley, Stanford, Harvard and UPENN are also very research oriented schools. UPENN is in top 5 in medicine and dentistry based on NIH funding and research involvements. I love UPENN and it is definitely one of my top choices. One thing that surprized me about UCSF is: No faculty interviewed me. I was interviewed by 2 students. 😕 I liked the students. Everybody was very friendly but I was very surprized to see my last 15% (15 points) would be determined by students. Very very very very very strange and perhaps the only exception.

that strange that no faculty interviewed you. Must be a new process, cause when I went last year I was interviewed by both faculty and a student. Getting to the bigger picture, UCSF does rank tops in Research, but thats all that you can really compare with schools. I wouldn't say its number 1 overall (actually I would since I go here 🙂 ) , and I would definitly look at the other apsects the school has to offer. You won't have too much time to do research in dental school, and unless you want to go into academia, you should probably worry more about how well the school prepares you clinically.

Here at SF, so far, I think we get a good mixture of academics and actualy dentistry. Year 1 is mostly basic sciences, year 2 mostly lab sciences and then in the 3rd quarter of 2nd year youre in the clinic. One very cool aspect here is the summer after 1st year. There are 20-25 research grant spots for students to pursue a mentorship and work in a lab over the summer. Basically you get paid $5000 big ones and help your cv at the same time. I would rather play golf all summer, but the oppurtunity is here.

I guess long story short, research is great and all, but don't post a thread about rankings that will piss off most of SDN

p.s. I love it here so far, but it's only been 3 weeks!

 

[EyeAmCommi]

Research discoveries do not necessarily correlate to quality of dmd/dds training program. Unless you're going for a combined phd program, this ranking is meaningless for regular applicants.

Isn't it possible that the guys doing the awesome, groundbreaking research are also teaching your courses? Food for thought.

 

[drhobie7]

Isn't it possible that the guys doing the awesome, groundbreaking research are also teaching your courses? Food for thought.

Isn't it possible that these guys are horrible teachers? It's more than possible. It's quite likely.

 

[dat_student]

Isn't it possible that these guys are horrible teachers? It's more than possible. It's quite likely.

Don't say that. UCLA School of Dentistry is also in top 10 in the research arena. UCSF said UCLA School of Dentistry receives the 9th highest NIH funding.

 

[EyeAmCommi]

Isn't it possible that these guys are horrible teachers? It's more than possible. It's quite likely.

Man, again with the assumptions. When you gonna give it up? 😀