Ranking of DO Schools

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SkipJunior

SkipJunior

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Before I rank the schools, I would like to explain why I think it's beneficial to do so. Here are the reasons:

1. The more reputable DO schools are usually harder to get accepted to. Therefore it's useful for pre-meds to know what the more-reputable schools are and what the less-reputable DO schools are. This is something I did not know at the beginning of the application cycle.

2. Graduating from a more reputable DO school might make it easier to match into your desired residency program. Thus it's good to know the ranking of the DO schools.

3. Majority of DO schools, unlike MD schools, are not ranked. This makes life difficult for pre-meds and medical school applicants.

My intent is not to insult anyone or belittle any particular school. There are many factors that I'm not considering when ranking DO schools, two notable factors being location and fit. Please note that location and fit are very important.

To all the pre-meds reading this, don't solely use this thread to decide which DO schools you are going to apply to. Do your own research, talk to physicians and other members on SDN, and please do consider factors like tuition, location, and fit. Try to visit the schools if possible before applying. All DO schools are pretty good so take my ranking with that consideration in mind.

A final caveat, I may be wrong with my ranking and in a way, I expect to be wrong. Please correct me. I'm just a humble mortal, a servant of humanity, which is why I want to be a physician.

I'm not going to be ranking every school because I believe that a lot of DO schools are similar to each other when it comes to reputation. I will simply divide the schools into 2 groups: the more reputable DO schools and the less reputable DO schools.

Also less reputable doesn't necessarily mean bad. Some schools will be in that list simply because they are new or don't have a research focus. Please keep that in mind.

More Reputable DO schools

  1. Michigan State
  2. Oklahoma State
  3. Texas-COM
  4. Rowan
  5. Ohio University-HCOM
  6. UNECOM
  7. PCOM-all campuses
  8. Chicago-COM-Midwestern
  9. Arizona-COM-Midwestern
  10. Nova Southeastern
  11. KCUMB
  12. A.T Still-Kirksville
  13. Des Moines University
  14. NYIT-COM
  15. PNWU-COM
  16. RVUCOM
  17. Touro-all campuses
Less Reputable DO Schools

  1. Liberty
  2. VCOM-all campuses
  3. Alabama-COM
  4. WVSOM
  5. WCU-COM
  6. LMU-DeBusk
  7. Western
  8. University of Pikeville
  9. Marian
  10. LECOM-all campuses
  11. Campbell
  12. ATSOMA-AZ
Some schools in the less reputable list like Campbell and Marian are promising but as of now are in the lower list because they are new and not as well known to residency program directors. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
SkipJunior said:
Before I rank the schools, I would like to explain why I think it's beneficial to do so. Here are the reasons:

1. The more reputable DO schools are usually harder to get accepted to. Therefore it's useful for pre-meds to know what the more-reputable schools are and what the less-reputable DO schools are. This is something I did not know at the beginning of the application cycle.

2. Graduating from a more reputable DO school might make it easier to match into your desired residency program. Thus it's good to know the ranking of the DO schools.

3. Majority of DO schools, unlike MD schools, are not ranked. This makes life difficult for pre-meds and medical school applicants.

My intent is not to insult anyone or belittle any particular school. There are many factors that I'm not considering when ranking DO schools, two notable factors being location and fit. Please note that location and fit are very important.

To all the pre-meds reading this, don't solely use this thread to decide which DO schools you are going to apply to. Do your own research, talk to physicians and other members on SDN, and please do consider factors like tuition, location, and fit. Try to visit the schools if possible before applying. All DO schools are pretty good so take my ranking with that consideration in mind.

A final caveat, I may be wrong with my ranking and in a way, I expect to be wrong. Please correct me. I'm just a humble mortal, a servant of humanity, which is why I want to be a physician.

I'm not going to be ranking every school because I believe that a lot of DO schools are similar to each other when it comes to reputation. I will simply divide the schools into 2 groups: the more reputable DO schools and the less reputable DO schools.

Also less reputable doesn't necessarily mean bad. Some schools will be in that list simply because they are new or don't have a research focus. Please keep that in mind.

More Reputable DO schools

  1. Michigan State
  2. Oklahoma State
  3. Texas-COM
  4. Rowan
  5. Ohio University-HCOM
  6. UNECOM
  7. PCOM-all campuses
  8. Chicago-COM-Midwestern
  9. Arizona-COM-Midwestern
  10. Nova Southeastern
  11. KCUMB
  12. A.T Still-Kirksville
  13. Des Moines University
  14. NYIT-COM
  15. PNWU-COM
  16. RVUCOM
  17. Touro-all campuses
Less Reputable DO Schools

  1. Liberty
  2. VCOM-all campuses
  3. Alabama-COM
  4. WVSOM
  5. WCU-COM
  6. LMU-DeBusk
  7. Western
  8. University of Pikeville
  9. Marian
  10. LECOM-all campuses
  11. Campbell
  12. ATSOMA-AZ
Some schools in the less reputable list like Campbell and Marian are promising but as of now are in the lower list because they are new and not as well known to residency program directors. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Pretty worthless thread. Sorry Skip, no offense. Tons of threads out there like this.
 
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JimmyB123 said:
Pretty worthless thread. Sorry Skip, no offense. Tons of threads out there like this.
Click to expand...

No offense taken. I get that there are other threads out there like this but they are usually flame threads or otherwise threads that disintegrate into random jokes about different schools.

I wish I had a thread like this as a reference when I submitted my AACOMAS in June of last year.
 
Why is LECOM consistently rated at "low" tier? Does having the highest COMLEX scores in the nation mean nothing ?
 
Thanks for the corrections.
 
birdboybird said:
Why is LECOM consistently rated at "low" tier? Does having the highest COMLEX scores in the nation mean nothing ?
Click to expand...
They have one of the highest passing rates not scores (though, they could, but that info isn't published).

Regardless, I think LECOM is a fine school and that one would get an excellent education there.
 
birdboybird said:
Why is LECOM consistently rated at "low" tier? Does having the highest COMLEX scores in the nation mean nothing ?
Click to expand...
Their reputation isn't exactly stellar care of the level of nepotism and bribery engaged in by the Ferrettis, in addition to their poor rotations during third year and their terrible policies in regard to everything from water in class to student attire. It's a large mix of factors, but it comes down to them not being a fantastic school.
 
So at the interview when they said there COMLEX average was the highest in the nation by +20 points they based it only a couple of schools that released their COMLEX scores?

ChiTownBHawks said:
They have one of the highest passing rates not scores (though, they could, but that info isn't published).

Regardless, I think LECOM is a fine school and that one would get an excellent education there.
Click to expand...
 
Dr.TonySoprano said:
Thanks for the post.
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Its not accurate. I wouldn't put any weight on this list. As sad as it sounds, there have actually been others that were at least closer to approximating the truth. This is nowhere near it.

ChiTownBHawks said:
They have one of the highest passing rates not scores (though, they could, but that info isn't published).

Regardless, I think LECOM is a fine school and that one would get an excellent education there.
Click to expand...

ChiTownBHawks said:
Odd. They didn't tell us that..

Nor is that information available anywhere. Seems to be something a school would want to be associated with. Don't ya think?
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Yeah, even the average is among the top. I don't know if it's the top this last year, or even if it's consistent, but I believe at some point in the last few years it was at the top. I'm pretty confident TCOM was higher least year though.

I'm pretty sure the NBOME tells schools where they rank, but not necessarily where all other schools rank.
 
birdboybird said:
Why is LECOM consistently rated at "low" tier? Does having the highest COMLEX scores in the nation mean nothing ?
Click to expand...

This is standard SDN material. Don't let facts interfere with the hivemind, nor allow facts to disrupt the periodic citing of the hivemind's murmurings.

Liberty could place the entire first class at major hospitals for residencies, and it wouldn't change the SDN view that they are all a bunch of religious lunatics.

PCOM could place half its grads in residency, and it would still have a "good reputation" as a "well-established program."

Nothing new to see here.
 
Don't MUCOM and CUSOM seem to be showing promise, despite being newer schools?
 
birdboybird said:
So at the interview when they said there COMLEX average was the highest in the nation by +20 points they based it only a couple of schools that released their COMLEX scores?
Click to expand...

I don't believe that for a second considering both Bradenton and Erie said their specific campus had the highest scores in the country during interviews. Came to find out later that neither school was even in the top three last year, so pretty much anything that comes out of their administrations mouths goes in one of my ears and straight out the other. Not trying to bash the education itself, I just don't trust their admins. From what I've always been told TCOM had the best COMLEX scores in the country for a long time and still do.

I may be wrong in saying this, but I'd also consider moving NYIT-COM down to mid-tier. From what I've heard NYC residencies have been trying to force DOs out of their programs, making NYIT less desirable. I know that was happening a few years ago, but idk if that is changing with the new merger.

In all seriousness though. I hate the whole 'tier' thing. The only way an applicant will find out if a school is really the right place for them is to go there and see it for themselves at an interview or visit day. I went to more than one place that I thought I really wanted to be at before visiting and am now glad I didn't end up at.
 
Stagg737 said:
I don't believe that for a second considering both Bradenton and Erie said their specific campus had the highest scores in the country during interviews. Came to find out later that neither school was even in the top three last year, so pretty much anything that comes out of their administrations mouths goes in one of my ears and straight out the other. Not trying to bash the education itself, I just don't trust their admins. From what I've always been told TCOM had the best COMLEX scores in the country for a long time and still do.

I may be wrong in saying this, but I'd also consider moving NYIT-COM down to mid-tier. From what I've heard NYC residencies have been trying to force DOs out of their programs, making NYIT less desirable. I know that was happening a few years ago, but idk if that is changing with the new merger.

In all seriousness though. I hate the whole 'tier' thing. The only way an applicant will find out if a school is really the right place for them is to go there and see it for themselves at an interview or visit day. I went to more than one place that I thought I really wanted to be at before visiting and am now glad I didn't end up at.
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I thought RVU COM has the highest board scores in the country? They have the data up on their site.
 
My 2 cents. When I was applying in 2008 I looked at the established ones only. Established schools have established curriculum and established rotations, whether good or bad.
 
even sdn'so beloved KCUMB says on there website that they are above the national average. How did they determine the national average if schools don't release that data??
 
thepoopologist said:
My 2 cents. When I was applying in 2008 I looked at the established ones only. Established schools have established curriculum and established rotations, whether good or bad.
Click to expand...
With all the schools out there trying to be "innovative" and changing up their curricula constantly, even established schools aren't a sure bet. My school is undergoing constant curriculum changes, so the second years and third years can't relate to our experience or each others' at all.
 
While I understand what you are doing, and think you're probably on target with your rankings, location, cost and fit are huge factors. Who would want to go to CCOM when they want to be a family practitioner in Tampa? LECOM-B offers 32K tuition compared to whatever ungodly amount CCOM is charging these days. Or MSU, while having an excellent program, can you justify that 82K tuition per year? That's over 400K before any interest, accounting for a measly 18K year to live on.

Lost of folks apply and don't get accepted anywhere - as in something around 40-50%. They would love an acceptance to anywhere, (perhaps even Liberty(?))

Professors change colleges...you get some extra gunners in the class...it's just like ranking sports teams, they change every year.
 
PIacebo said:
I thought RVU COM has the highest board scores in the country? They have the data up on their site.
Click to expand...
RVU has the highest first time COMLEX pass rate and second highest COMLEX average (2 points short of the highest)
 
According to people above me, LECOMs COMLEX Level 1 mean for at least the last couple years has been in the high 550s (don't remember the exact number). That's the combined number for all campuses by the way. Make out of that whatever you want. I know recently TCOM was around 561 or something like that.

Many admissions people mix up "highest board score" and "highest board pass rate". They aren't docs and many aren't even pre-clinical faculty, so they have no idea what any of that means. I don't know if LECOM has absolutely the highest pass rate (I didn't check every school's website), but last year it was 99%.

Anyway, again ranking DO schools is stupid. One thing I know is that LECOM (like most schools) has pluses and minuses, and based on matriculant stats, it lands smack dab in the middle of all DO schools, so you can put it in whatever "tier" you want.

In the end, what does DO tier mean? Absolutely nothing. By the time you pre-meds graduate, you'll be matching ACGME. Now while regional preference exists (so maybe you should keep that in mind), most ACGME programs know one thing about your school, that it's an "Osteopathic school".

The only advantage you have going to one DO school over another when it comes to GME is the size/quality of your school's OPTI (if you're planning to go AOA or rather "Osteopathic-focus") and the region your school is in (because it's easier to set up rotations at programs in your region and if reputations vaguely exist, it's only in regions).

Pick a school where you will succeed in preclinicals (read: do well on boards), that has been around long enough to see if kids do well on boards/the match, in the region you want to go for residency (if you want to be in socal, go to COMP, I don't care if CCOM or PCOM have a better "reputation"), and where you'll have the most freedom in 4th yr to set up as many auditions and interviews as you can. That's it. Everything else is meaningless filler.
 
hallowmann said:
According to people above me, LECOMs COMLEX Level 1 mean for at least the last couple years has been in the high 550s (don't remember the exact number). That's the combined number for all campuses by the way. Make out of that whatever you want. I know recently TCOM was around 561 or something like that.

Many admissions people mix up "highest board score" and "highest board pass rate". They aren't docs and many aren't even pre-clinical faculty, so they have no idea what any of that means. I don't know if LECOM has absolutely the highest pass rate (I didn't check every school's website), but last year it was 99%.

Anyway, again ranking DO schools is stupid. One thing I know is that LECOM (like most schools) has pluses and minuses, and based on matriculant stats, it lands smack dab in the middle of all DO schools, so you can put it in whatever "tier" you want.

In the end, what does DO tier mean? Absolutely nothing. By the time you pre-meds graduate, you'll be matching ACGME. Now while regional preference exists (so maybe you should keep that in mind), most ACGME programs know one thing about your school, that it's an "Osteopathic school".

The only advantage you have going to one DO school over another when it comes to GME is the size/quality of your school's OPTI (if you're planning to go AOA or rather "Osteopathic-focus") and the region your school is in (because it's easier to set up rotations at programs in your region and if reputations vaguely exist, it's only in regions).

Pick a school where you will succeed in preclinicals (read: do well on boards), that has been around long enough to see if kids do well on boards/the match, in the region you want to go for residency (if you want to be in socal, go to COMP, I don't care if CCOM or PCOM have a better "reputation"), and where you'll have the most freedom in 4th yr to set up as many auditions and interviews as you can. That's it. Everything else is meaningless filler.
Click to expand...

Great post overall, but I want to point out one thing. This is anecdotal, but I had several interviewers point out to me that my school was well known and was particularly strong. The interviewers who told me this were outside of my schools region and it happened at more than 1 school. I do think there is some tier to the whole thing. Older schools are typically more known and more respected than the newer ones. Other important things to consider is how well you can perform at that particular school. I ended up somewhere that had almost no outside distractions and no attendance policy. This was exactly what I needed in a school and it paid off.

NB: Can't emphasize enough the important of no attendance policy at a school.
 
DopaDO said:
Great post overall, but I want to point out one thing. This is anecdotal, but I had several interviewers point out to me that my school was well known and was particularly strong. The interviewers who told me this were outside of my schools region and it happened at more than 1 school. I do think there is some tier to the whole thing. Older schools are typically more known and more respected than the newer ones. Other important things to consider is how well you can perform at that particular school. I ended up somewhere that had almost no outside distractions and no attendance policy. This was exactly what I needed in a school and it paid off.

NB: Can't emphasize enough the important of no attendance policy at a school.
Click to expand...

Well, to be fair, if a program has taken a DO from a particular school, the reputation of that school might mean something to that specific PD.

To actually use that kind of info as a pre-med requires not only being certain what you want to do as a doc, but knowing specifically which program you want to go to for residency, and hoping that the PD doesn't leave by the time you apply. Neither of us were certain what we wanted to do (I still am not) when we were pre-meds, let alone which specific program we want.

What I was saying are general rules, and while it's true the older schools have been pumping out more grads for longer, so some PDs know a bit more about the school, for the most part those PDs are likely a drop in the bucket compared to the thousands of PDs out there.

I addressed this in a previous post some time ago in yet another "DO rank" and DO match list thread, with the example of RadOnc. For the last couple of years, UPMC has taken a LECOM grad for RadOnc because those people worked hard, did research with them, and got the trust of the PD. RadOnc is practically impossible for any med student, but if you're going DO and absolutely know for sure you want RadOnc or bust, LECOM might be a good choice, because they have a history of sending kids to RadOnc at a great ACGME institution. Now would I recommend that as the primary reason (or even a main reason) for 99.999% of pre-meds to pick a med school. Absolutely not.
 
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hallowmann said:
Well, to be fair, if a program has taken a DO from a particular school, the reputation of that school might mean something to that specific PD.

To actually use that kind of info as a pre-med requires not only being certain what you want to do as a doc, but knowing specifically which program you want to go to for residency, and hoping that the PD doesn't leave by the time you apply. Neither of us were certain what we wanted to do (I still am not) when we were pre-meds, let alone which specific program we want.

What I was saying are general rules, and while it's true the older schools have been pumping out more grads for longer, so some PDs know a bit more about the school, for the most part those PDs are likely a drop in the bucket compared to the thousands of PDs out there.

I addressed this in a previous post some time ago in yet another "DO rank" and DO match list thread, with the example of RadOnc. For the last couple of years, UPMC has taken a LECOM grad for RadOnc because those people worked hard, did research with them, and got the trust of the PD. RadOnc is practically impossible for any med student, but if you're going DO and absolutely know for sure you want RadOnc or bust, LECOM would be a good choice, because they have a history of sending kids to RadOnc at a great ACGME institution. Now would I recommend that as the primary reason (or even a main reason) for 99.999% of pre-meds to pick a med school. Absolutely not.
Click to expand...

I agree with this almost completely but I think my point still stands, especially considering a DO from my school had never matched or even interviewed at the programs who told me this. I'm not saying anyone should completely base their decision on an arbitrary tier list, but definitely some schools are more well known nationally than others and that does make a difference not just to PDs, but all academic faculty.

Once you go through residency, you will be judged on where you completed that, not where you went to med school, but definitely some DO schools seem to give you an advantage (even if slight) based on name alone. I remember being quite surprised when an interviewer told me how nationally respected my school was. I was even more surprised when it continued to happen, bc I was of the view point (from sdn) that all DO schools were equally looked down on by PDs. This just does not seem to be the case.
 
DopaDO said:
I agree with this almost completely but I think my point still stands, especially considering a DO from my school had never matched or even interviewed at the programs who told me this. I'm not saying anyone should completely base their decision on an arbitrary tier list, but definitely some schools are more well known nationally than others and that does make a difference not just to PDs, but all academic faculty.

Once you go through residency, you will be judged on where you completed that, not where you went to med school, but definitely some DO schools seem to give you an advantage (even if slight) based on name alone. I remember being quite surprised when an interviewer told me how nationally respected my school was. I was even more surprised when it continued to happen, bc I was of the view point (from sdn) that all DO schools were equally looked down on by PDs. This just does not seem to be the case.
Click to expand...

I won't disagree with that idea because anything's possible in a PD's mind. I've seen people say they "prefer" grads from my school for residency, but for the most part, I attributed that to mean, "I've heard of your school" or "I know x person who went/goes there". The thing is, we're talking about something so vague, subjective, and unknown that it becomes useless in terms of actually applying the information. It's not like we're comparing Harvard and Howard.

Sure, there's a sense that a school that has been around 100yrs has a better "rep" than one around 10 years, but what about one around 20 compared to one around 30? What does that actually mean? Will a grad from X school with a 235 be chosen over a grad from Y school with a 237? Where does that fall in a PD's mind compared to the many other things they look at?

My main point is that if there is an advantage, it is so small that a difference of a few points on the USMLE or even one research experience might negate it, so making a tier list or even basing your decision to go somewhere on as nebulous a concept as DO school tier or DO prestige is unreasonable.
 
birdboybird said:
I'm still pissed that multiple schools claim to have the highest average COMLEX scores.
Click to expand...

So why don't you email the schools who have told you this claim, tell them that other COM's have made the same claim, and you were wondering how they determined that their COM was the highest.
 
Who compiles the average COMLEX from all the schools? Perhaps schools communicate their scores with one another. There must be more to it that we don't know.
 
meliora27 said:
So why don't you email the schools who have told you this claim, tell them that other COM's have made the same claim, and you were wondering how they determined that their COM was the highest.
Click to expand...

+100 there's always lots of complaints but no action!
 
I am a current medical student (DO) so here is my take. Very few things should go into your preference or "ranking" of a medical school. This goes for MD or DO. If you have geographic preferences then that will likely weigh more than any other factor. If you are flexible in terms of geography then considerations of what school to attend should be in this order. WARNING: failure to listen will result in regret down the line----guaranteed.

1. Cost: Go to the cheapest school you get accepted to. MD or DO doesn't really matter, simply pick the cheapest alternative
2. Cost: see above, do not discount the importance of this, you have been warned. Only exception to this is if you really want something competitive, by this I basically mean Derm or Ophtho, if that's the case go MD.

3. If cost is equal then go to the school with the best clinical rotations. For DO schools this means try to find one with an associated hospital, as most MD schools are affiliated with an attached hospital.

All other considerations are basically worthless. If you are picking what school to attend based off of some crap "ranking" and are not considering the above you will be sorry. I promise.
 
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Why is CCOM, and especially MSUCOM so expensive? 80k tuition? Outrageous!
 
songl4a said:
Why is CCOM, and especially MSUCOM so expensive? 80k tuition? Outrageous!
Click to expand...

The 80K figure for MSUCOM is only for out of state students. Since MSUCOM is public, their primary goal is to train physicians for Michigan. A vast majority (>80%) of students are Michigan residents - they also have an initiative which allows for a certain number of Canadian students to attend every year at a reduced price as well. MSUCOM is apparently generous with scholarships for out of state students to try to make it more reasonable, but I don't know how much the average OOS student is awarded.
 
NOsaintsfan said:
I am a current medical student (DO) so here is my take. Very few things should go into your preference or "ranking" of a medical school. This goes for MD or DO. If you have geographic preferences then that will likely weigh more than any other factor. If you are flexible in terms of geography then considerations of what school to attend should be in this order. WARNING: failure to listen will result in regret down the line----guaranteed.

1. Cost: Go to the cheapest school you get accepted to. MD or DO doesn't really matter, simply pick the cheapest alternative
2. Cost: see above, do not discount the importance of this, you have been warned. Only exception to this is if you really want something completive, by this I basically mean Derm or Ophtho, if that's the case go MD.

3. If cost is equal then go to the school with the best clinical rotations. For DO schools this means try to find one with an associated hospital, as most MD schools are affiliated with an attached hospital.

All other considerations are basically worthless. If you are picking what school to attend based off of some crap "ranking" and are not considering the above you will be sorry. I promise.
Click to expand...
I could have saved a lot of money by going to LECOM-B, for instance, but I'd have been miserable. I picked a place that was close to home, and it's helped me maintain my relationship with my girlfriend (we're going on 3 years now and happy as ever, something I doubt would have happened if I'd gone thousands of miles away) and my sanity (I visit my friends back home every other weekend). Money isn't everything, and the debt really isn't that bad if you know how to manage it.
 
Mad Jack said:
I could have saved a lot of money by going to LECOM-B, for instance, but I'd have been miserable. I picked a place that was close to home, and it's helped me maintain my relationship with my girlfriend (we're going on 3 years now and happy as ever, something I doubt would have happened if I'd gone thousands of miles away) and my sanity (I visit my friends back home every other weekend). Money isn't everything, and the debt really isn't that bad if you know how to manage it.
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You must not have read the part about geographic preference in my post. :whistle:
 
Mad Jack said:
I could have saved a lot of money by going to LECOM-B, for instance, but I'd have been miserable. I picked a place that was close to home, and it's helped me maintain my relationship with my girlfriend (we're going on 3 years now and happy as ever, something I doubt would have happened if I'd gone thousands of miles away) and my sanity (I visit my friends back home every other weekend). Money isn't everything, and the debt really isn't that bad if you know how to manage it.
Click to expand...
damn man, u got time to see friends and your gf every other weekend??
 
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