rate this applicant

[Chalazion12]

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Step 1: 211
Step 2: not taken yet
No AOA
Couple of case reports published
Honors in ophtho, peds, psych, family
Good LOR
American MD school

Say I apply 50+...any chance I'll get any interviews and perhaps even match despite the low step 1?

 

[jbloggs]

you need to take step2 and improve by at least 15 points. the more you can improve, the better. other things that would help:

change good letters of rec. to stellar letters of rec. if possible
do more things ophtho related. (research, school club, schedule international elective, etc.)

if you really want to do this, you still have time to make this happen.

 

[Iron123]

when's a good time to take step 2?

 

[wei_c25]

.

 

[eyerepairman]

The rank list of the program that I saw did not have a good correlation between step I scores or other factors.

Think of foreign medical school graduates, particularly those who aren't US citizens. Should they be given a position resulting in denying a qualified US citizen the chance to become an ophthalmologist? That's a question which could be posed as a separate post. Anyway, those successful foreigners don't always have the best qualifications but usually have some edge, for example connections or something unusual.

Other times, being an attractive girl or very business-like guy helps a whole lot. I've seen not too qualified but very good looking people get ahead in the rank list......even my numbers are not the best but either a few unbeatable qualifications OR just my looks got me in 😱

 

[Chalazion12]

Thanks everyone for the advice!

 

[rubensan]

change good letters of rec. to stellar letters of rec. if possible
do more things ophtho related. (research, school club, schedule international elective, etc.)

if you really want to do this, you still have time to make this happen.

👍 👍

 

[Olddog1]

Think of foreign medical school graduates, particularly those who aren't US citizens. Should they be given a position resulting in denying a qualified US citizen the chance to become an ophthalmologist? That's a question which could be posed as a separate post. Anyway, those successful foreigners don't always have the best qualifications but usually have some edge, for example connections or something unusual.

Actually many of the FMGs would crush many US 4th years on paper, ie a dozen publications (not 10th name on a poster), possibly been in practice and/or have done a clinical fellowship in the US (you don't need to complete a US residency to do a US clinical fellowship). The reason many don't get a spot is either poor fit for the program, language barrier, or the perception that they are not "trainable" because they are already stuck in their way of doing things.

With a ~90% match rate for US grads I don't think there is a great conspiracy to keep out US grads out of Ophthalmology.

 

[Olddog1]

Think of foreign medical school graduates, particularly those who aren't US citizens. Should they be given a position resulting in denying a qualified US citizen the chance to become an ophthalmologist? That's a question which could be posed as a separate post. Anyway, those successful foreigners don't always have the best qualifications but usually have some edge, for example connections or something unusual.

QUOTE]

Actually many of the FMGs would crush many US 4th years on paper; ie, number one in a class of 300, great letters from well known people, a dozen publications (not 10th name on a poster), possibly been in practice and/or have done a clinical fellowship in the US (you don't need to complete a US residency to do a US clinical fellowship). The reason many don't get a spot is either poor fit for the program, language barrier, or the perception that they are not "trainable" because they are already stuck in their way of doing things.

With a ~90% match rate for US grads I don't think there is a great conspiracy to keep US grads out of Ophthalmology.

 

[Wolverine98]

Actually many of the FMGs would crush many US 4th years on paper; ie, number one in a class of 300, great letters from well known people, a dozen publications (not 10th name on a poster), possibly been in practice and/or have done a clinical fellowship in the US (you don't need to complete a US residency to do a US clinical fellowship). The reason many don't get a spot is either poor fit for the program, language barrier, or the perception that they are not "trainable" because they are already stuck in their way of doing things.

With a ~90% match rate for US grads I don't think there is a great conspiracy to keep US grads out of Ophthalmology.

I completely agree. What you left out is scores. Almost all of the 270+ USMLE scores I've seen have been from FMGs.
Often the bigger question for the program director is how many less qualified US applicants they're willing to rank above an FMG just to avoid having an FMG.

The other thing that can happen is that, as mentioned, an FMG will do a pre-US residency fellowship, and then will stay at the same institution. That program knows that they are a good person to work with, good at what they do, etc. So it's an option of taking a known good applicant versus an unknown.

If this is an issue for you, make sure when you're at a program that you're right about FMGs. Don't assume that someone with an accent is an FMG, and don't assume that an American is a US grad. When I was a resident, we had an "all-American" boy who had gone to foreign medical schools. We also had two residents who were born and raised outside the US, had definite accents, but went to US undergrad and med schools; most people incorrectly assume they're FMGs.

Dave

 

[Wolverine98]

when's a good time to take step 2?

It depends on your step I score. If you did well on step I, take step II later. If you didn't do well on step I, make sure you take it in time to have your scores back before all the applications are reviewed.

Dave

 

[MR1]

It depends on your step I score. If you did well on step I, take step II later. If you didn't do well on step I, make sure you take it in time to have your scores back before all the applications are reviewed.

Dave

I did pretty well on step 1 but no exceptional (230), so I wanted to take step 2 early and hopefully improve. I took it right at the end of July and got my scores back about 4 wks later and that was just in time for my application since SFMatch target date is usually the first wk of Sept.

If you have a low score I would say take step 2 early for sure. If you have an average score like me I would say it is a gamble. If I hadn't done better it could have hurt me. I am pretty sure though that improving by like 10 points or more will help you.

Also if you don't improve you can always not include it in your app. But this is an ethical problem because on the app it asks if you have taken step 2 and when you expect your scores back. With me I decided no matter what I would report it because getting caught lying would be really bad.

 

[eyerepairman]

Actually many of the FMGs ...... possibly been in practice .

I know of one (possibly 2, depending on what they said behind closed doors) FMG's who appears to have falsely claimed that they wanted to get training and then go back to their home country to practice. However, it seems that they were just lying. In that case, it was a disservice to the few Americans who were displaced by those FMG's.

There are other FMG's who are already trained in their home country. After fellowship in the US, they should go back

Other countries make it hard for Americans to practice in their countries. With the worsening practice of medicine in the US, I briefly considered what countries I could eventually practice. A lot of them slam the doors on Americans. Even Canada! The UK is not too bad to get training but to practice there, very difficult. That's the way the US should be.

I believe in reciprocity. They erect barriers against us, we do the same. They welcome us, we reciprocate....not we help you, you kick us in the face. The issue about people with ethnic roots elsewhere but are US citizens and US medical graduates, they're one of us now. The FMG who are native Americans, they're one of us, too and the quality of their medical school is a separate issue.

 

[WhiteDots]

.

 

[WhiteDots]

I believe in reciprocity. They erect barriers against us, we do the same.

I completely disagree. Regarding honesty/integrity issues of lying-- that's wrong for people to do period- US or FMG alike. As for reciprocity, I disagree. Sure, there are people who take advantage of the system. However, the US has the best medical system and training in the world. There is no reason for us to be greedy about it and not share it with others. Plus, it's already built into the system that it's harder for FMG's to get a residency position than US medical graduates.. so why make it worse. If in the end, a FMG gets top quality training and they do go back to their home country- I think that's great because it's one more qualified ophthalmologist trained in the world. If they stay in the US, that's fine too.

Sure, there are more developed westernized countries in the world who may not be so different from the US (Canada, Europe, parts of South America)... but then there are many other parts of the world at a severe disadvantage to the US.

The world is turning global and trying to close international borders is not a solution to a more global community. Even if countries don't reciprocate. Being a physician is a priviledge and not a right. Even if it does take someone umpteen years to become a physician.

I'm surprised to hear that Canada has closed doors for US physicians to practice there.. because Canada is facing a huge brain drain..and so, they need more physicians than what's currently available.