Re-apply or go Caribbean (AUC)?

[mangohead]

Hey everyone this is my first time posting. Currently deciding whether to go to AUC this fall or re-apply to mainly DO and some MD either this summer or next. My stats are:

3.6 cGPA
3.3 sGPA
31 MCAT

Have a decent amount of ECs but not particularly stand-out (scribe in ER x 1 year, volunteer at hospitals x 3 years, research in 2 labs and 1 clinic). I applied only MD this past year with no luck, and ended up applying to AUC as a backup and got in. I'm pretty eager to start med school, but after looking around on these forums Caribbean seems to be looked down upon by many in the US, including residencies which seems to make it pretty hard to compete with US grads. Looking for some advice/perspective of which option you think would be the most beneficial in the long run. Thanks!

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[Faha]

Reapply to at least 15 DO schools. You are competitive for most DO schools if you apply in June and submit all your secondaries by July. Where did you apply to MD this year ?

 

[mangohead]

Do you think DO grads have a significant advantage over Caribbean MD grads? I'm a Maryland resident and went to UMD for undergrad. Applied to UMD, Georgetown, GW, EVMS, Penn State, Drexel, Jefferson, stony brook, Miami, South Carolina, and Hopkins (which was obviously a reach but I did some volunteering and research there)

 

[deleted480308]

Yes because most DO students actually graduate and actually get residency

Don't go to the carrib

 

[mangohead]

Ah okay, understood. I just don't want to risk going through another app cycle with no luck and back to the same spot. With my stats would it be worth my time taking a year of classes to slightly boost my GPA, or just go ahead and apply DO and some MD this next cycle?

 

[Faha]

Go ahead and apply but concentrate on DO schools (at least 15 ). You should receive several DO interviews if you apply in June. For MD consider these schools in addition to UMD:
Quinnipiac
New York Medical College
Albany
Hofstra
Penn State
Commonwealth (PA)
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Oakland Beaumont
Western Michigan
Loyola
Rosalind Franklin
St. Louis
Creighton
Tulane
Any new private MD schools that open in 2016.
For this past cycle only the first 7 schools on your list were realistic and that is too few with your stats.

 

[Goro]

Agree 100% with Faha and sb. I suggest skipping Hofstra, as their average MCAT scores are 3 points above yours.

Also, contact U MD and see if the Admissions Dean will share feedback on why you were rejected. Also consider Netter, VCU, U WV, and EVMS.

Go ahead and apply but concentrate on DO schools (at least 15 ). You should receive several DO interviews if you apply in June. For MD consider these schools in addition to UMD:
Quinnipiac
New York Medical College
Albany
Hofstra
Penn State
Commonwealth (PA)
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Oakland Beaumont
Western Michigan
Loyola
Rosalind Franklin
St. Louis
Creighton
Tulane
Any new private MD schools that open in 2016.
For this past cycle only the first 7 schools on your list were realistic and that is too few with your stats.

 

[referee3]

OP I had similar numbers to you and got a lot of love from DO schools this cycle. Never go Carib. That's worse than going full ******.

 

[mangohead]

Agree 100% with Faha and sb. I suggest skipping Hofstra, as their average MCAT scores are 3 points above yours.

Also, contact U MD and see if the Admissions Dean will share feedback on why you were rejected. Also consider Netter, VCU, U WV, and EVMS.

I contacted UMD which defers basically all questions to "ask your premed advisor". And yeah thats my plan now, apply to pretty much all DO schools and some MD with lower averages. Don't know if I mentioned above but I applied to EVMS and VCU last cycle with no luck

 

[mangohead]

OP I had similar numbers to you and got a lot of love from DO schools this cycle. Never go Carib. That's worse than going full ******.

good to know, and thats pretty harsh haha, I actually work with an ER doc who is a Caribbean grad which was some of my motivation for applying, but yeah I agree which is why I'm applying DO/MD this next cycle

 

[mangohead]

Agree 100% with Faha and sb. I suggest skipping Hofstra, as their average MCAT scores are 3 points above yours.

Also, contact U MD and see if the Admissions Dean will share feedback on why you were rejected. Also consider Netter, VCU, U WV, and EVMS.

Sorry for the second reply, just wondering if you think re-applying to schools I applied to last cycle (VCU, EVMS, UMD, Drexel & Jefferson) that I'm somewhat competitive at would be worth it? given the fact that I didn't even get interviews this past cycle at any

 

[Goro]

It will be important to identify your weaknesses that kept you out of those schools, and improve upon them. The key is to target schools strategically.

Sorry for the second reply, just wondering if you think re-applying to schools I applied to last cycle (VCU, EVMS, UMD, Drexel & Jefferson) that I'm somewhat competitive at would be worth it? given the fact that I didn't even get interviews this past cycle at any

 

[Danny McBride]

Absolutely no Caribbean. You should apply DO and MD. Does the DO philosophy appeal to you? It's not necessarily easier to get into. You should have great chances at either if you pick up more clinical or research experience, delve into a hobby to make yourself unique. Get some publications etc. I took three years off and will be attending an MD program this year. The past few years were more than worth it. Travel! Enjoy the time to grow as a person before reapplying... Just don't do the Caribbean unless it's to lay by the beach with a piña colada.

 

[xffan624]

OP I had similar numbers to you and got a lot of love from DO schools this cycle. Never go Carib. That's worse than going full ******.

Please take this time to educate yourself on the implications of that word. http://www.r-word.org/

 

[DrMidlife]

Please take this time to educate yourself on the implications of that word. http://www.r-word.org/

Please take this time to watch Tropic Thunder.

Regardless, for the thread audience, note that just as you wouldn't freely quote movies in a clinical setting, you wouldn't use coarse language such as the R word in a clinical setting. Usage of it here on an anonymous internet forum is only concerning because we have no idea if you're smart enough to not use it elsewhere. Cringeworthy.

 

[mangohead]

Absolutely no Caribbean. You should apply DO and MD. Does the DO philosophy appeal to you? It's not necessarily easier to get into. You should have great chances at either if you pick up more clinical or research experience, delve into a hobby to make yourself unique. Get some publications etc. I took three years off and will be attending an MD program this year. The past few years were more than worth it. Travel! Enjoy the time to grow as a person before reapplying... Just don't do the Caribbean unless it's to lay by the beach with a piña colada.

Congrats on getting in! And thanks for the advice. The only reason I'm swayed towards applying this next cycle is I would have to re-take the MCAT, get new lettes, ect ect ect. I know not great reasons but something on my mind. And yes, the DO philosophy is right down my alley which is why I'm kicking myself I didn't apply to any last cycle.

 

[mangohead]

One thing that AAMC, AACOM, NRMP and all the other acronyms have is data. http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/ADT2015_final.pdf (see Table 4)

In 2014, for US citizens who were graduates of International Medical College (IMG) here is a breakdown of the numbers

6,917 Total who submitted the ERAS application for NRMP.
691 Withdrew, which is mostly and automatically done if they did not pass STEP II exam
1,796 Did Not submit a ranking list, which is mostly done because they did not get any interviews at a residency program
2,354 Did Not match into any residency slot
2,660 Matched into a slot

The above indicates that upwards of 3,000 graduates of International Medical Schools who likely passed STEP II did not get a slot in the main match for residency. There is a supplement match (SOAP) for unfilled open slots which this year included 1,193 of the 1,306 slots. Yet there were 1,093 senior US-MD graduates who did not match and another 60 who did not rank. These students are automatically entered in this supplemental round, as I assume are the seniors at the international school . So you can see even in the SOAP match, there is intense competition.

I also like to note that this table includes DO graduates who matched in the “MD” slots. It does not include the DO graduates who matched in the DO/AOA slots. Combining NRMP, AOA, Military and Supplemental/Final Opportunity, DO match at 99.45% (see http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/medical-students/aacom_match2014_infographic_finalv2.pdf)

wow didn't know that, rough stats for IMGs. didn't think of that, DOs in a way have an upper hand attaining residency. thanks for the info

 

[bruwin2011]

DO is better than Caribbean with residency matching which matters more than the letters behind your name.

 

[referee3]

Please take this time to educate yourself on the implications of that word. http://www.r-word.org/

You are clearly retarted. Very sad. Hope you can still manage to live a fulfilling life.

 

[xffan624]

You are clearly retarted. Very sad. Hope you can still manage to live a fulfilling life.

I managed to comment on your post without a personal attack. Apparently you cannot do the same. How very sad.

 

[mangohead]

Agree 100% with Faha and sb. I suggest skipping Hofstra, as their average MCAT scores are 3 points above yours.

Also, contact U MD and see if the Admissions Dean will share feedback on why you were rejected. Also consider Netter, VCU, U WV, and EVMS.

Also regarding UMD, I purchased the MSAR just to better scale my stats against possible MDs to apply to, and UMD didn't accept anyone below a cGPA of 3.65 this past cycle, so I most likely won't apply again there which sucks because its my only in-state school

 

[Goro]

U WV, VCU, WVSOM, The Philly triplets, EVMS and VCOM are right next door!

 

[IslandStyle808]

I like that 99.45% match rate far more than the 82% that AUC puts out. Their match went down from 87% from 2 years back (probably due to the all in policy) and their top choice picks for PGY-1 is at 38% and PGY-2 is at 13%. This means they are getting pigeon-holed into primary care. One may think these numbers are still good, but don't forget about the attrition and the fact that US schools are being made and expanding. These numbers will only drop.

AUC 2014 Match.
http://aucmed.edu/AUC/media/PDF/residency/Residency-Match-2014.pdf

 

[bruwin2011]

Also regarding UMD, I purchased the MSAR just to better scale my stats against possible MDs to apply to, and UMD didn't accept anyone below a cGPA of 3.65 this past cycle, so I most likely won't apply again there which sucks because its my only in-state school

MSAR doesn't give lowest accepted but rather percentiles, just fyi (there are acceptances of people with low GPAs in every class, but they tend to be outliers so it wouldnt really affect the 10th percentile range).

 

[IslandStyle808]

Not very long ago, the USA "imported" 8,000 foreign docs a year into residency. So if you made it thru an off shore school, and did okay on your boards, you would likely get a residency slot somewhere. With the increase in US grads and no increase in residency slots, the numbers just work so hard against the off shore grads and this has changed in less than a decade. 4 years from now, there are likely to be half the effective slots available as there are today for off shore grads. Some researchers even predict almost vanishing numbers. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4370780/)

The truly sad part is none this helps produce more physicians in the US.

This is correct. As for the merger helping DO students, this is only true for those who are both talented and hard working (even just hardworking also). The merger combined with the increasing schools will pigeonhole those who are sub-par DO graduates into residencies that they don't want. Without and increase in residency position, there will be people in US medical school who will lose too. They may match, but not to the same quality residencies as in the past.

 

[FutureMDiA]

US MD > US DO > Caribbean top 4 > AUA/MUA > SMU > everything else.

 

[mangohead]

Hoping this post will help other pre-meds in a similar position that I was a few months ago. After deciding not to go to the AUC/Caribbean and re-apply, I have been accepted to multiple DO schools and am waiting on decisions from a few MDs that I interviewed at. Re-applying multiple times is definitely the right move for anyone, after a lot of research and advice it seems Caribbean should be last resort for many reasons. If anyone has any questions about my re-application experience or just wants some advice ask away!

 

[IslandStyle808]

Congrats, you had the stats, you just needed the patience. And it paid off.

 

[mangohead]

as I've said often, before considering any offshore school applicant must go through at least two application cycles for both MD and DO with a break in between for application repair and/or enhancement. the break is necessary to analyze and understand the weaknesses in an application. Repair may be as simple as reorganizing rewriting application or it may require postbacc, SMP, MCAT, or additional extracurricular such as clinical volunteering and other items. I strongly advise that no student should consider off shore schools until the above has been done.

Agreed. For some reason I felt rushed, I'm sure along with a lot of other pre-meds, to start med school as soon as I could. Definitely something not worth rushing into. The additional year off and having the experience of applying once before definitely helped me a lot.

 

[NoTownPreMed]

Agreed. For some reason I felt rushed, I'm sure along with a lot of other pre-meds, to start med school as soon as I could. Definitely something not worth rushing into. The additional year off and having the experience of applying once before definitely helped me a lot.

I wrote about a resident whom I worked with, similar stats but with a high sGPA. The resident opted to take the Caribbean route after not getting into the medical school of their choice. Very bright doc, but unfortunately that resident matched into a different specialty on their bottom list.

 

[mangohead]

Congrats, you had the stats, you just needed the patience. And it paid off.

Thanks! Patience is definitely key.

 

[GreenScrubss]

OP I had similar numbers to you and got a lot of love from DO schools this cycle. Never go Carib. That's worse than going full ******.

Forgot the "Trigger Warning"

 

[bogle8]

Forgot the "Trigger Warning"

About a year ago, I had a 70 year old plastic surgeon tell me to go Caribbean instead of DO. He said that "getting a DO degree is a waste". I do hope that some of that elitist nonsense will disappear in the coming years.

 

[mangohead]

About a year ago, I had a 70 year old plastic surgeon tell me to go Caribbean instead of DO. He said that "getting a DO degree is a waste". I do hope that some of that elitist nonsense will disappear in the coming years.

I don't know how much to take away from a 70 year old MD telling pre-meds to not go the DO route, he went through this process 40+ years ago. Slightly condescending of him to say that. Personally I know and work with multiple DO physicians who work among MDs, never seems to be an issue. The only situation where DOs still have a tough time is getting into certain specialties.

 

[mangohead]

20 years ago it was still a big issue/contention. It has only been in the past 15 years or so, as DO schools opened up at a faster rate than MD schools and that the applicant pool for both MD and DO started growing at a fast pace since its low in 2000 or so that there has been a much wider acceptance of the DO without any pejorative connotations . I think with the combined residency system, it will be an utterly non-issue in 5-10 years. For the vast majority of clinical physicians it doesnt matter

Well said. The merger will definitely continue the trend of making the DO vs MD a non-issue.

 

[FutureMDiA]

DO > Caribbean MD any day