Re-apply with DO acceptance? (not again!!)

[AgirlfromHawaii]

I'm sure people are getting tired of these posts but this pre med needs some questions answered!
Here are my stats:
3.41 overall
3.37 sgpa with an upward trend to 3.62 my last few years
MCAT:512
I applied to about 23 MD schools, (about 12 in September, the rest in October) and 6 DO (older schools in the Midwest and northeast)
Results: no MD ii or acceptances
2 DO acceptances, fairly good schools
Should I reapply? I'm interested in relatively competitive specialties and from wjat I've learned in the past couple months it's harder for DOs to get certain residencies (I didn't know this when I applied)
Since applying, I have improved my ECs a lot and have been a part of a few research projects, increased volunteer hours, clinical hours and participate in women's health outreach in my local community.
What are my odds of gaining an MD acceptance this time around if I apply on time and more broadly?
P.S. I can't afford an SMPso it's either reapply or take the offer.
Thanks every one : p

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[el_duderino]

Absolutely do not turn down a medical school acceptance if you want to be a physician. Period, end of story. Never ever.

This gets posted a hundred times a year. Never do it.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

Absolutely do not turn down a medical school acceptance if you want to be a physician. Period, end of story. Never ever.

This gets posted a hundred times a year. Never do it.

My post was more about the likelihood of me being accepted into md if I reapplied

 

[Faha]

The GPA-MCAT grid shows your chances for a MD acceptance are only a little over 50%. Where did you apply this past cycle ?

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

The GPA-MCAT grid shows your chances for a MD acceptance are only a little over 50%. Where did you apply this past cycle ?

IS, some reaches and mid-low tier.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

Where can i see that grid?

 

[Faha]

Where can i see that grid?

It is from the AMCAS data section.

 

[el_duderino]

My post was more about the likelihood of me being accepted into md if I reapplied

I know what it was about. Turning down a DO acceptance to reapply MD is extremely foolish.

 

[Goro]

I'm sure people are getting tired of these posts but this pre med needs some questions answered!
Here are my stats:
3.41 overall
3.37 sgpa with an upward trend to 3.62 my last few years
MCAT:512
I applied to about 23 MD schools, (about 12 in September, the rest in October) and 6 DO (older schools in the Midwest and northeast)
Results: no MD ii or acceptances
2 DO acceptances, fairly good schools
Should I reapply? I'm interested in relatively competitive specialties and from wjat I've learned in the past couple months it's harder for DOs to get certain residencies (I didn't know this when I applied)
Since applying, I have improved my ECs a lot and have been a part of a few research projects, increased volunteer hours, clinical hours and participate in women's health outreach in my local community.
What are my odds of gaining an MD acceptance this time around if I apply on time and more broadly?
P.S. I can't afford an SMPso it's either reapply or take the offer.
Thanks every one : p

You can't get into a residency if you don't go to medical school.

I recommend that you dump the acceptance because it's clear that you don't want to be a doctor now. I'd rather your seat go to someone who does.

And med schools do ask if "Have you been accepted elsewhere?"

Your cGPA is 0.3 basis points below the national median.

 

[mwsapphire]

To add on to everything else that's been said in this thread, you were also complete at those MD schools way too late. If you were really serious about MD, you would have been complete sooner.
Take the DO acceptance, man.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

You can't get into a residency if you don't go to medical school.

I recommend that you dump the acceptance because it's clear that you don't want to be a doctor now. I'd rather your seat go to someone who does.

And med schools do ask if "Have you been accepted elsewhere?"

Your cGPA is 0.3 basis points below the national median.

I do want to become a dr!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

With your GPAs no you should not turn down an acceptance. If you are interested in competitive specialties as a DO I suggest learning what you need to do in school to be able to get there, and then work every single day in medical school towards building the kind of app that those specialties require.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

And med schools do ask if "Have you been accepted elsewhere?"

That's a bold generalized claim for someone who hasn't applied in 72 years!
I believe most of them ask if you plan on being a student over the application cycle if I remember correctly from a few months ago.

 

[Hi_I'mPaul]

Your GPA is a major problem. Without improvement here, I don't see why you would think that you would magically go from 0 MD II this cycle to interviews next cycle. Again, interviews don't equate to acceptances either...

 

[Osteosaur]

You're not good enough for MD. The fact you have no interviews indicates your application was likely not up to snuff. What has changed to make you more competitive?

It might be possible you had a bad school list. Or there were other factors in your application or ECs at play.

This might be the closest you get to being a doctor.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

You're not good enough for MD. The fact you have no interviews indicates your application was likely not up to snuff. What has changed to make you more competitive?

It might be possible you had a bad school list. Or there were other factors in your application or ECs at play.

This might be the closest you get to being a doctor.

A lot has changed.
I've added a few hundred hours of research (from almost none), volunteering, shadowing, and several poster presentations

 

[Hi_I'mPaul]

A lot has changed.
I've added a few hundred hours of research (from almost none), volunteering, shadowing, and several poster presentations

Can you give us some hours for each of those from last cycle vs next cycle? Research, clinical experience, non-clinical volunteering, shadowing, leadership/teamwork experiences, etc.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

Can you give us some hours for each of those from last cycle vs next cycle? Research, clinical experience, non-clinical volunteering, shadowing, leadership/teamwork experiences, etc.

Research: 25 hours->1000+
Nonclinical: 200->500
Clinical: 200-> 500
Shadowing: 300-> over 600 (about 3 years of shadowing total)
Posters/presentations/conferences attended: 0-> many
Abstracts/manuscripts submitted: 0-> several

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

My honest question to you guys is, would these improvements likely be enough? Do schools care?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

A lot has changed.
I've added a few hundred hours of research (from almost none), volunteering, shadowing, and several poster presentations

My honest question to you guys is, would these improvements likely be enough? Do schools care?

No they won't care. Your problem is the GPA and none of these things address that.

 

[Sephirakra]

That's a bold generalized claim for someone who hasn't applied in 72 years!
I believe most of them ask if you plan on being a student over the application cycle if I remember correctly from a few months ago.

Arguing with the adcom and showing your ignorance of their background might not be the best way to respond to advice...

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

Arguing with the adcom and showing your ignorance of their background might not be the best way to respond to advice...

Oops

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

You can't get into a residency if you don't go to medical school.

I recommend that you dump the acceptance because it's clear that you don't want to be a doctor now. I'd rather your seat go to someone who does.

And med schools do ask if "Have you been accepted elsewhere?"

Your cGPA is 0.3 basis points below the national median.

I forgot to add another thing..to be honest one of the things that irks me a bit about DO school is the fact that they do teach some OMM that appears to be basically pseudoscience (I know some OMM helps with back pain). As an evidence based DO (presumably), how do you deal with this and what is your opinion?

 

[el_duderino]

Arguing with the adcom and showing your ignorance of their background might not be the best way to respond to advice...

Which is exactly the problem with the whole thread. OP doesn't want advice but comfort and encouragement.

The thought process that would lead to someone rejecting a DO acceptance in favor of reapplying MD is the exact same thought process that makes them argue with people who tell them things they don't want to hear.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

Which is exactly the problem with the whole thread. OP doesn't want advice but comfort and encouragement.

The thought process that would lead to someone rejecting a DO acceptance in favor of reapplying MD is the exact same thought process that makes them argue with people who tell them things they don't want to hear.

What have I argued so far?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I forgot to add another thing..to be honest one of the things that irks me a bit about DO school is the fact that they do teach some OMM that appears to be basically pseudoscience (I know some OMM helps with back pain). As an evidence based DO (presumably), how do you deal with this and what is your opinion?

You ignore it, remember it for COMLEX, and then forget about it. Yes it is stupid but it's a reality you will have to deal with if you want to be a doctor, because you won't get an MD acceptance without revamping your GPAs.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

You ignore it, remember it for COMLEX, and then forget about it. Yes it is stupid but it's a reality you will have to deal with if you want to be a doctor, because you won't get an MD acceptance without revamping your GPAs.

Thanks. Makes sense, just not really sure why it's still being taught. Kinda seems like a tradition thing that doesnt belong in medicine

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Kinda seems like a tradition thing that doesnt belong in medicine

Most of medicine is a tradition thing that has little data behind it. OMM is generally garbage, and I won't defend it, but it would be remiss to not point out the fact that most of medicine has very little data behind it.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

Most of medicine is a tradition thing that has little data behind it. OMM is generally garbage, and I won't defend it, but it would be remiss to not point out the fact that most of medicine has very little data behind it.

Really? Like What? Surely most medical schools stay away from teaching methods that have been shown to be ineffective

 

[Goro]

I forgot to add another thing..to be honest one of the things that irks me a bit about DO school is the fact that they do teach some OMM that appears to be basically pseudoscience (I know some OMM helps with back pain). As an evidence based DO (presumably), how do you deal with this and what is your opinion?

An excellent question!
1) PhD here
2) If you have mindset that about OMM/OMT, why did you apply to DO schools in the first place?
3) I always tell my students to suspend their disbelief and see if they can learn something useful.
4) There are OMM modalities that do work
5) I prefer to think of a lot of OMM as "unproven claims" rather than pseudoscience. That said, there are no such things as Chapman's points, and those cranial bones do NOT move.
6) Think of OMM/OMT as the tax you have to pay for not having an app that was competitive enough to get you into an MD school.
7) Some DO schools give mere lip service to OMM/OMT, and others are more devoted to it.
8) Every DO school has its share of True Believers, for whom Osteopathy is a belief system. We PhD faculty treat them like beloved but very eccentric relatives.

I reiterate my advice that you should drop the acceptance and re-apply. Students like you make life miserable for my DO faculty colleagues, and it's not due to a devotion to the Scientific Process and critical/skeptical thinking skills. Self-hating DOs are a real thing.

My honest question to you guys is, would these improvements likely be enough? Do schools care?

You are mostly likely to be crowded out by candidates with stronger apps.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Really? Like What? Surely most medical schools stay away from teaching methods that have been shown to be ineffective

Pelvic and prostate exams are big ones. Spine surgery in general, followed quickly by knee scopes. I suspect in the near future we will find that statins have been significantly overhyped and this is already begun to be seen in the literature. Once you actually look at the literature there are a lot of things in common practice that don't make it through the scrutiny of scientific study, yet we continue to do them.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

An excellent question!
1) PhD here
2) If you have mindset about OMM/OMT, why did you apply to DO schools in the first place?
3) I always tell my students to suspend their disbelief and see if they can learn something useful.
4) There are OMM modalities that do work
5) I prefer to think of a lot of OMM as "unproven claims" rather than pseudoscience. That said, there are no such things as Chapman's points, and those cranial bones do NOT move.
6) Think of OMM/OMT as the tax you have to pay for not having an app that was competitive enough to get you into an MD school.
7) Some DO schools give mere lip service to OMM/OMT, and others are more devoted to it.
8) Every DO school has its share of True Believers, for whom Osteopathy is a belief system. We PhD faculty treat them like beloved but very eccentric relative

I reiterate my advice that you should drop the acceptance and re-apply. Students like you make life miserable for my DO faculty colleagues, and it's not due to a devotion to the Scientific Process and critical/skeptical thinking skills. Self-hating DOs are a real thing.


You are mostly likely to be crowded out by candidates with stronger apps.

An excellent question!
1) PhD here
2) If you have mindset that about OMM/OMT, why did you apply to DO schools in the first place?
3) I always tell my students to suspend their disbelief and see if they can learn something useful.
4) There are OMM modalities that do work
5) I prefer to think of a lot of OMM as "unproven claims" rather than pseudoscience. That said, there are no such things as Chapman's points, and those cranial bones do NOT move.
6) Think of OMM/OMT as the tax you have to pay for not having an app that was competitive enough to get you into an MD school.
7) Some DO schools give mere lip service to OMM/OMT, and others are more devoted to it.
8) Every DO school has its share of True Believers, for whom Osteopathy is a belief system. We PhD faculty treat them like beloved but very eccentric relatives.

I reiterate my advice that you should drop the acceptance and re-apply. Students like you make life miserable for my DO faculty colleagues, and it's not due to a devotion to the Scientific Process and critical/skeptical thinking skills. Self-hating DOs are a real thing.


You are mostly likely to be crowded out by candidates with stronger apps.

I certainly wouldn't be a self hating DO. Appreciate the response, interesting to know that you're a phd
And to answer your question about why i applied to DO school: I want to be a Dr. Not sure why you are under the impression that I dont.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

I was also not very aware on the lack of science for omm

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I was also not very aware on the lack of science for omm

I mean... you applied to DO schools without even looking into OMM at all? Because it's pretty hard to not realize that most of OMM is BS if you have spent even 5 minutes searching on SDN...

 

[Goro]

I certainly wouldn't be a self hating DO. Appreciate the response, interesting to know that you're a phd
And to answer your question about why i applied to DO school: I want to be a Dr. Not sure why you are under the impression that I dont.

You want to be a doctor, but you don't want to be a DO.

Hence, dump the accept.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

I mean... you applied to DO schools without even looking into OMM at all? Because it's pretty hard to not realize that most of OMM is BS if you have spent even 5 minutes searching on SDN...

Yea I know.
I guess if the consensus among most DOs and students is that most OMM is BS, the idea of it being a "tax" for having a crap gpa like goro said makes a lot of sense. It takes away from the cult-like vibe when it's admittedly BS

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

You want to be a doctor, but you don't want to be a DO.

Hence, dump the accept.

Well, if I can avoid the "tax" and bias, shouldn't I? Just trying to do my best bud

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Well, if I can avoid the "tax" and bias, shouldn't I? Just trying to do my best bud

Look, you cam in here for advice. You got great advice. You will not get an MD acceptance without changes to your GPA. You probably need to come to grips with the idea that you are a DO quality medical school candidate, and not an MD quality one. Doesn't mean you will be a poor residency candidate, but it's the hand you have now. You can sit there and wish for a full house all you want, but if all your holding is a pair of Aces you need to play the game based on that.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

Look, you cam in here for advice. You got great advice. You will not get an MD acceptance without changes to your GPA. You probably need to come to grips with the idea that you are a DO quality medical school candidate, and not an MD quality one. Doesn't mean you will be a poor residency candidate, but it's the hand you have now. You can sit there and wish for a full house all you want, but if all your holding is a pair of Aces you need to play the game based on that.

My butt hurts now. Is there an OMM technique for that?

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

Thanks for the advice guys

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

It's ok, I know how you are feeling. My stats were similar to yours with a slightly higher MCAT and slightly lower GPA. I chose DO over an SMP for personal reasons and, even though I am pretty outspoken about the downsides of DO schools, I am happy with where I'm at. I landed at a DO school run very similarly to an MD one with a teaching hospital and a whole host of residencies/fellowships, I already have multiple publications in high quality journals with 2 more submitted right now and one first author to be submitted after I take Step this week, and I am confident in my ability to do well on boards. I am one of those DOs who is entertaining competitive specialties so I understand the uphill climb, and that it can be scary. If your GPA were higher I would say to go another cycle, but it isn't so your best bet is to go to one of the quality DO schools you've been accepted to and bust your butt to get yourself in position to apply competitively to residency.

Also never fear, there is an OMM technique for everything.

 

[Goro]

Well, if I can avoid the "tax" and bias, shouldn't I? Just trying to do my best bud

I can see that you are unteachable. That's a trait that gets people kicked out of residencies.
Placing on Ignore now. You'll feel a slight pressure between the eyes.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

I can see that you are unteachable. That's a trait that gets people kicked out of residencies.
Placing on Ignore now. You'll feel a slight pressure between the eyes.

Maybe you should explain what you mean when you say things. Unteachable?

 

[Hi_I'mPaul]

Research: 25 hours->1000+
Nonclinical: 200->500
Clinical: 200-> 500
Shadowing: 300-> over 600 (about 3 years of shadowing total)
Posters/presentations/conferences attended: 0-> many
Abstracts/manuscripts submitted: 0-> several

Your ECs were more than fine for the last cycle. I stand by the fact that your low GPA and possibly poor writing skills in your primary/secondary app are what led to ZERO interviews. Do not be naive in thinking this time will be any different if all you did was improve already fine ECs. Good luck, I'd take your DO acceptance. Cheers ~

 

[mwsapphire]

Arguing with the adcom and showing your ignorance of their background might not be the best way to respond to advice...

I know, right? that was so rude on their part.
There's so much. you can do. as DO. I've spent a while educating myself on what would happen if I get DO and no MD ( which,, like OP, is going to be my likely outcome). Almost any type of specialty you can do as a DO. Almost.Any.Type.

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

Your ECs were more than fine for the last cycle. I stand by the fact that your low GPA and possibly poor writing skills in your primary/secondary app are what led to ZERO interviews. Do not be naive in thinking this time will be any different if all you did was improve already fine ECs. Good luck, I'd take your DO acceptance. Cheers ~

Theres also submitting my apps really late. I have to guess that played a big role too no?

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

I know, right? that was so rude on their part.
There's so much. you can do. as DO. I've spent a while educating myself on what would happen if I get DO and no MD ( which,, like OP, is going to be my likely outcome). Almost any type of specialty you can do as a DO. Almost.Any.Type.

Actually any specialty. Some will just be harder

 

[mwsapphire]

An excellent question!
1) PhD here
2) If you have mindset that about OMM/OMT, why did you apply to DO schools in the first place?
3) I always tell my students to suspend their disbelief and see if they can learn something useful.
4) There are OMM modalities that do work
5) I prefer to think of a lot of OMM as "unproven claims" rather than pseudoscience. That said, there are no such things as Chapman's points, and those cranial bones do NOT move.
6) Think of OMM/OMT as the tax you have to pay for not having an app that was competitive enough to get you into an MD school.
7) Some DO schools give mere lip service to OMM/OMT, and others are more devoted to it.
8) Every DO school has its share of True Believers, for whom Osteopathy is a belief system. We PhD faculty treat them like beloved but very eccentric relatives.

I reiterate my advice that you should drop the acceptance and re-apply. Students like you make life miserable for my DO faculty colleagues, and it's not due to a devotion to the Scientific Process and critical/skeptical thinking skills. Self-hating DOs are a real thing.


You are mostly likely to be crowded out by candidates with stronger apps.

The ( first) bolded is adorable!
Also, how are students like OP not weeded out by the interview process?
OP's EC's are more than enough, it's their GPA that is lacking.

 

[mwsapphire]

Actually any specialty. Some will just be harder

IF YOU KNOW THIS THEN WHY DO YOU WANNA DROP THE DO ACCEPTANCE AND APPLY MD!!!!?????!!!!!???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
I MEAN IF YOU HAD NO CLUE THEN MAYBE THERE WOULD BE SOMEEEEE TINNNYYY AMOUNT OF SYMPATHY BUT.IF.YOU.KNOW.THEN WHY DO YOU WANNA DROP YOUR CHANCE AT BECOMING A DOCTOR?

 

[AgirlfromHawaii]

The ( first) bolded is adorable!
Also, how are students like OP not weeded out by the interview process?
OP's EC's are more than enough, it's their GPA that is lacking.

Not weeded out by the interview process? Clearly I was for MD, not for DO