Reapply again or wait a year? No significant difference in application?

[ambassador6]

Hello all! First time poster so bear with me.

Sadly after my second cycle I did not get accepted again. I applied very very late my first application cycle and it went as you would expect. No surprises there. But I applied on time in august on my second cycle to 6 schools. I technically sent in 12 primaries but for personal/family reasons, I only completed 6 apps to local-ish schools. I definitely understand that applying to such a small number effected my success this past cycle, but what can you do. From those six, I received one II to my state school, which turned into an R. Interestingly enough, during my first cycle the exact same thing happened. This is where we run into my problem...

I decided after applying to take a non-clinical gap year job and effectively not work on improving my application at all during that time. I was beyond confident that I was going to get into school this time around, but here we are. Now I'm at the point where I have to decide if I am applying again this cycle or the next. Here are my stats:

Major: Comp Sci (2021)
MCAT: 512 (127,127,127,131)
GPA: 3.61
Publications: Two 5th author, one 1st author, one 1st author poster
Research: 1500hrs over 3 years in a cybersecurity research lab
Clinical: 950hrs split between one scribing job in college and one after graduating
Volunteering: 1400hrs over 5 years split between a debate club, and two organizations that hosted debate conferences for high schoolers
Clinical Volunteering: 125hrs at a hospital
Shadowing: 25hrs split between two surgeons
EC: Multiple leadership positions over 4 years split between the debate club and student government
Hobbies: DJing
Work: Two tech internships and one full time position at a startup

It should be noted that if I wait a year to reapply that I'll have to retake the MCAT, which would not be fun. Also, I've decided that if I do reapply regardless if it's this cycle or the next, I would like to be 100% complete by July 31st of that year. This means I would need to send in my primary to be verified fairly early. I plan on applying to 20-25 schools and am confident that it is a broad school list.

Looking at my app, I have no clue what I can do that will effect it in any meaningful way. I feel as if I check each box more than sufficiently. Also, if I were to apply this cycle, I would only really be able to add one month of non-projected hours for whatever activity that I would be doing in that month before I submit/verify my primary.

So here are a variety of questions...
Do I wait a cycle?
What can I do the improve my app?
Should I try to add clinical volunteering and or shadowing and their projected hours to my app? Does that even look meaningful to adcoms?
Do I say screw it and apply with the same app (numbers wise) but focus on my writing?

It is interesting that I have had received an II from my state school two years in a row, so I might need to take a look at my interview skills. Another odd tidbit is that I would be a third time re-applicant at the six schools I applied to but only a second time re-applicant at the rest. I say that because there is a very significant difference between my first and third apps but not so much between my second and third, if that makes sense.

Any comments/thoughts would be appreciated!

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[chilly_md]

Where did you apply and what is your state of residence?

Volunteering: 1400hrs over 5 years split between a debate club, and two organizations that hosted debate conferences for high schoolers

This is unfortunately not what the category is really meant for. You should have community service to outside an academic setting to those less fortunate (such as populations experiencing homelessness). Being part of a debate club is really for your own benefit or enjoyment. It would be better suited for leadership if you helped organize high school conferences or competitions.

For shadowing, you can subtract 50 hours from your scribe job and add it to the list with your existing entries for the surgeons.

You don’t need any additional clinical experience but do make sure you have a convincing reason for why you want to pursue medicine. With your research being cybersecurity, 2 CS internships from college and now a startup job, it may be hard to convince admissions that there is a good reason for you to change careers. That could have been what held you back at your state school.

 

[ambassador6]

Ah thank you for pointing that out. That is definitely a typing error on my part. It should just be...

Volunteering: 1400hrs over 5 years split between two organizations that hosted debate conferences for high schoolers

Idk why I put the debate club in that part. Regardless, why would that not be considered general volunteering? We were teaching hundreds of kids across the state about policy/public speaking and giving them a place to practice it?

Where did you apply and what is your state of residence?

Schools: UTHSC, Carle, VCU, Albany, Oakland, Drexel
State: TN

 

[chilly_md]

Ah thank you for pointing that out. That is definitely a typing error on my part. It should just be...

Volunteering: 1400hrs over 5 years split between two organizations that hosted debate conferences for high schoolers

Idk why I put the debate club in that part. Regardless, why would that not be considered general volunteering? We were teaching hundreds of kids across the state about policy/public speaking and giving them a place to practice it?



Schools: UTHSC, Carle, VCU, Albany, Oakland, Drexel
State: TN

Because while it technically is you volunteering your free time, it is within your comfort zone and the typical school environment. It does not speak to your altruism of helping people, and in medicine, patients will come from a wide range of backgrounds. Major reason you got no interest from Oakland and Drexel. Many schools targeting students with an MCAT and GPA similar to yours will value non clinical volunteering to the underserved like those two schools. And since you have 0 hours outside the debate club, schools may think you have a narrow view of the world.

1400 hours across 5 years also comes out to about 300 a year. That does not really make sense from what you shared the activity was about hosting a conference to teach high school students and let them practice. Perhaps if these were weeklong things that you did multiple times during the year, but even then, it comes across as an overestimation to a reader.

Have you asked UTHSC for feedback? Sometimes, public schools will offer specific details to IS applicants, especially if they interviewed.

No interest from Carle is a bit alarming as well since you fit their mission. Review all your written materials and get some experienced eyes on them, it may not be convincing enough about why you want to pursue medicine. Overemphasizing your interest in CS and engineering could have been a problem (if that applies to you).

I only completed 6 apps to local-ish schools. I definitely understand that applying to such a small number effected my success this past cycle, but what can you do.

There seems to be family reasons for this, but the schools you listed are not local to each other in any sense and are not similar in most other aspects either. And some of them have obvious neighboring med schools due to being in a large city (eg Temple and Wayne State). On the bright side, it seems you never have applied to ETSU then and would come across as a new applicant.

If you are ok applying to DO as well, you could try this cycle with some MD schools. Otherwise, I would recommend waiting a year to bulk up your non-clinical volunteering hours. With UTHSC having a heavy IS bias, your chances at other MD schools with the same app would be slim.

 

[ambassador6]

1400 hours across 5 years also comes out to about 300 a year. That does not really make sense from what you shared the activity was about hosting a conference to teach high school students and let them practice. Perhaps if these were weeklong things that you did multiple times during the year, but even then, it comes across as an overestimation to a reader.

Hit the nail on the head. Conferences were ~4 days long each with many many hours of prep and working with the high schools, venues, and the YMCA before the conference during the year. The honest answer is that 1400 over 5 years is very accurate, it was a major part of my life for a very long time. Also, I've never at all received that type of criticism about my work with the YMCA and teaching kids as not being altruistic enough. That is very surprising to me. But fair enough. Should I try to spin my writing somehow? Should I decrease the hours to mitigate it seeming like an over estimation?

Is it worth picking up doing non-clinical volunteering, probably 30-50 over the next month (~10 hours a week doesn't sound bad at all since I have the time), and then project how many hours that would be on my application for this cycle? I'm definitely looking for ways to avoid taking the mcat again.

There seems to be family reasons for this, but the schools you listed are not local to each other in any sense and are not similar in most other aspects either.

Yeah I won't go into detail with this but I basically applied to those 5 schools, family stuff came up, and I decided I had to stick with only applying to UTHSC.

Have you asked UTHSC for feedback? Sometimes, public schools will offer specific details to IS applicants, especially if they interviewed.

I have a feedback session scheduled. Sadly it's in the middle of June, so no matter what I would have to apply after that because I want to make sure I get that feedback before I click submit.

The biggest thing for me is that UTHSC is my top choice. I am very afraid of reapplying again with an app that is not dramatically different from last years. But then again, it seems good enough to receive an II two years in a row.

 

[chilly_md]

Hit the nail on the head. Conferences were ~4 days long each with many many hours of prep and working with the high schools, venues, and the YMCA before the conference during the year. The honest answer is that 1400 over 5 years is very accurate, it was a major part of my life for a very long time. Also, I've never at all received that type of criticism about my work with the YMCA and teaching kids as not being altruistic enough. That is very surprising to me. But fair enough. Should I try to spin my writing somehow? Should I decrease the hours to mitigate it seeming like an over estimation?

To me, it comes out like this. Let’s say 5 days on average, 12 hour days, for 5 years for the events themselves. That’s 300 hours. On average, you probably spent 2 hours a week the rest of the year doing things like contacting all parties, booking the venue, modifying the materials and anything with the high schools. That’s another 500 hours. Total of about 800 seems like a good faith estimate then.

I am not sure who you’ve spoken to. This is a good passion that you have been able to share with younger students, but it doesn’t fit the altruism definition in the manner like I had previously mentioned. And if you have had someone working with you, it appears they haven’t been able to guide you the best based on the decisions and outcomes you’ve shared.

Right now, since I don’t have your written essays and materials in front of me, I see you have great clinical experience. But that is about 2 or 3 activity slots on the app. The rest, with significantly more hours cumulatively, go to computer science related things and debate. And I am unsure if you listed additional hours for your leadership position in debate in school as well as how much went to student government. Your PS and what you put for the 3 most meaningful activities could be convincing for why you want to pursue medicine, but that is one of the concerns I would have based on what I can see and the fact you got a post-II rejection from your state school despite those 1000 clinical hours and competitive stats for them.

The biggest thing for me is that UTHSC is my top choice. I am very afraid of reapplying again with an app that is not dramatically different from last years. But then again, it seems good enough to receive an II two years in a row.

Then you should wait for the feedback session and spend the year improving your app. Projected hours do not count.

Some data from a few years back indicates they interview 64% of all IS applicants, which is quite high. I would not put too much stock into the fact you got invited for an interview twice, especially when it will be much more difficult at other schools.

 

[Faha]

You had a poor application strategy both times. Ideally, you would apply to 30 MD schools and 10 or more DO schools to maximize your chances for interviews. June is the best time to submit your MD application with all secondaries submitted by July. For DO schools submit all secondaries by September. Are you willing to apply to that number of schools with that timeline ?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Definitely wait a year for all the reasons that you did not show enough service orientation as defined by the AAMC competencies (alleviate others' distress): food distribution, shelter work, job placement services, transportation services, and housing rehabilitation. Show us you can be comfortable in uncomfortable situations. Debate club tournaments are great, but it gets chalked up as hobbies unfortunately.

If you had come to us when you applied the first time, we could have saved you a lot of frustration. I will hope the one in-state school that interviewed you twice didn't have a limit on how many times they would consider you over your lifetime. I would have asked for feedback.