? re: couples matching & contacting programs

[mwalker394]

My fiance and I are couples matching.

We're from a smaller school with no home residency program. He's currently doing his second away rotation. He got a letter from the first place's chairman and three from our home (we have a dept, just no residency).


Now I have heard of and been told by previous matching couples to contact programs where one partner got an interview to try and get the other partner an interview. Questions:
1) Who should be doing the contacting? Should I contact programs or should he?
2) What should he or I say exactly? I don't want to overstep bounds, but I also don't want to seem like we're not really interested.

I don't know how to do this and it frankly makes me uncomfortable, but everyone I've talked to says lots of couples do it. I just hate passively sitting by and waiting while I keep getting offers, especially because I have no interest in interviewing somewhere if he never does.

Thanks in advance for any help!

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[Raryn]

Competitive specialties tend to give out interview invites later than less competitive specialties. It might just be a matter of time.

(For example, last year, I had friends applying to family medicine who had heard from every program they applied to by the end of September. Versus friends applying Derm who started hearing back in early Nov)

 

[FloatOn]

People I've talked to, including previously matched couples and my program director, have said that the one who hasn't gotten the interview should email the program director in his/her respective specialty at the program of interest. For example, if you've gotten an interview at program X and your fiance hasn't, he should email the neurosurgery program director at program X and mention something along the lines of "My fiance has recently received an interview in ob/gyn at program X. We're doing couples match. Would you consider reviewing my application and offering me an interview?" I'm not sure how you would word asking for an interview without being awkward but you get the idea.

Since I am doing couples match too, I have a follow-up question to the original post. When would it be appropriate for the partner who hasn't gotten the interview to email the program director and ask for one? Are we talking a week? A month? My partner and I also applied very broadly but the paranoid side of me is afraid that all of the interview spots are going to be taken if we don't act quickly and like mwalker, I wouldn't interview in a city that he wouldn't potentially live in too.

 

[Andyg83]

I have all the same questions as the above posters! Funny how today I was just talking about this with other students but we all don't really know how to go about it (or even to go about it at all). We don't want to seem desperate but as mentioned above, I wouldn't want to interview at a program where my SO wouldn't be getting an interview as well.

 

[b-real]

Not to be a downer, but I don't see what either program has to gain by this tactic. Perhaps aPD or another PD can shed light on this, but to me, it smacks of presumptuousness. If I'm a PD and I get a call from an applicant or SO of an applicant that basically says "Take him or I'm not ranking you," you're going to the bottom of my list. Especially in a field like neurosurgery, where the vast majority of applicants are academic superstars. I would be especially frustrated if another program's PD called me and told me to interview someone. Also, you guys are med students. What influence or benefit do you bring to a program by your presence, so much so that a PD must exert his influence to get another PD to consider interviewing someone that they otherwise would not?

 

[drk]

Well, I think it's just because everyone knows how tough it is to maintain a relationship over a distance and PD's understand this and IF possible they will help. I don't think anyone is suggesting they would go out of their way and force someone to get an interview but if it keeps a couple together and both applicants are acceptable, why not? It will give you 2 strong residents who will have each other for support.

I believe aPD posted that they wouldn't mind at least shooting an e-mail to another program that someone applying to his program is couples matching with someone applying to that other program. I may be mistaken and I apologize if I am misquoting.

Anyways, I'm also couples matching though in a much less competitive field. Good luck, hope everything works out.

 

[Thama]

Not to be a downer, but I don't see what either program has to gain by this tactic. Perhaps aPD or another PD can shed light on this, but to me, it smacks of presumptuousness. If I'm a PD and I get a call from an applicant or SO of an applicant that basically says "Take him or I'm not ranking you," you're going to the bottom of my list. Especially in a field like neurosurgery, where the vast majority of applicants are academic superstars. I would be especially frustrated if another program's PD called me and told me to interview someone. Also, you guys are med students. What influence or benefit do you bring to a program by your presence, so much so that a PD must exert his influence to get another PD to consider interviewing someone that they otherwise would not?

Except in big cities with lots of other options, "take him or I'm not ranking you" is pretty much assumed in the couples match. That's just how the thing works. If it's something a program isn't comfortable with, they should just not bother interviewing people who indicate they're in the couples match.

 

[shopsteward]

I have no interest in interviewing somewhere if he never does.

Are you sure about this? You might end up with neither of you matching, which would be the worst of all worlds. Wouldn't it be better for at least one of you to match? To maximise your chances of matching, a couple should both be looking at several programs within a manageable distance of somewhere your other half might match. Then you list every possible combination of the two of you together, and then (just in case one doesn't match) you separately list every program you have interviewed at. Then the one that does match can support the other through SOAP or a year of research etc before they try the match again.

In other words, you should each only be limiting your number of interviews/rank list once you have got past the magic number at which you are 99% likely to match your specialty if you are matching as a single person.

 

[mcl]

Not to be a downer, but I don't see what either program has to gain by this tactic. Perhaps aPD or another PD can shed light on this, but to me, it smacks of presumptuousness. If I'm a PD and I get a call from an applicant or SO of an applicant that basically says "Take him or I'm not ranking you," you're going to the bottom of my list. Especially in a field like neurosurgery, where the vast majority of applicants are academic superstars. I would be especially frustrated if another program's PD called me and told me to interview someone. Also, you guys are med students. What influence or benefit do you bring to a program by your presence, so much so that a PD must exert his influence to get another PD to consider interviewing someone that they otherwise would not?

It's definitely a balancing act, and doesn't always work out the way I'd like. I lose strong applicants every year because of the couple's match, but there is only so much pressure programs will exert on each other to interview the SO. Personally, I like getting an email or voice mail from my applicant to let me know their SO has received an invitation from the other specialty. It allows me to expedite the review process (assuming the application is complete) and gives my committee an incentive to say "yes." But PDs and selection committees don't like to burn an interview spot on an applicant they aren't likely to rank.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Agree with mcl.

If one half of a couple gets an IV offer, it's reasonable for the other person to contact their program. Instead of asking for an interview, I'd simply ask when they plan to review your application and make a decision. This allows the program to 1) review it right then and make a decision; or 2) tell you that they won't be reviewing applications until mid October, etc. Either way, you hopefully have something that you can use to help decide how to go forward.

PD's talk to other PD's about ranking and the couple's match. In general, this only leads to small changes in the rank list.

 

[mwalker394]

Thanks for all the answers so far - it's a lot of good information to think about.

As far as "pressuring" the other specialty to interview the SO... that's definitely not what I was thinking. It seems smart to at least let them know that you have another really good reason to want to interview at/rank their program (i.e., because the person you refuse to leave will be doing so), in addition to your general interest in training there. It has to mean something that they know your partner already got an interview, so you're not likely to cancel/not rank them. Or maybe I am being hopelessly optimistic...

 

[mcl]

Thanks for all the answers so far - it's a lot of good information to think about.

As far as "pressuring" the other specialty to interview the SO... that's definitely not what I was thinking. It seems smart to at least let them know that you have another really good reason to want to interview at/rank their program (i.e., because the person you refuse to leave will be doing so), in addition to your general interest in training there. It has to mean something that they know your partner already got an interview, so you're not likely to cancel/not rank them. Or maybe I am being hopelessly optimistic...

No, your reasoning is perfectly sound, which is why I like to get the email/voicemail. As a coordinator, I can confirm that I love having people on my scheduled-to-interview list that I'm sure won't cancel (late cancellations increase my stress levels exponentially).

 

[b-real]

Agree with mcl.

If one half of a couple gets an IV offer, it's reasonable for the other person to contact their program. Instead of asking for an interview, I'd simply ask when they plan to review your application and make a decision. This allows the program to 1) review it right then and make a decision; or 2) tell you that they won't be reviewing applications until mid October, etc. Either way, you hopefully have something that you can use to help decide how to go forward.

PD's talk to other PD's about ranking and the couple's match. In general, this only leads to small changes in the rank list.

Do you interview people you otherwise wouldn't 2/2 couple status? Have otherwise near-equal candidates been bumped from your interview/final rank list?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I do not. If we wouldn't interview them to begin with, we don't interview them for couples issues.

Not quite sure what you mean by "near equal canddiates being bumped from interview list". I think the answer is no -- we interview whom we want, and let the couples thing sort out later. Once we've interviewed everyone, we rank everyone who is rankable.

 

[Handinhand]

Wanted to bump this. Couples matching this year in Ortho (me) and Peds (her)

Is there any utility in contacting my program, and asking them to reach out the the peds program? There are 1-2 places where I have gotten interviews, but my significant other hasn't heard anything. Should she be the one to reach out to her program?

Also, what about a place where she's already been rejected? Any history of someone getting off a rejection and given an interview in a circumstance like this? Again, should I contact the ortho department, or she the peds department?

 

[woo]

Contact both ways, can't hurt. And it has worked for me.

As for the rejections, i think its a lost cause unfortunately.

 

[22031 Alum]

The rejection is probably a lost cause, but an email from her to the program wouldn't not be unheard of. She could just mention that she is couples matching and SO already has an interview, and ask if there is a chance that she could be considered for even an alternate/waitlist interview slot.

In my experience most of the "reaching out" by programs is done after they've interviewed an applicant. If they are excited about you they're more likely to contact other departments to try and get you. (They're not helping you out, they are helping themselves out.)

 

[chronicidal]

Also, what about a place where she's already been rejected? Any history of someone getting off a rejection and given an interview in a circumstance like this? Again, should I contact the ortho department, or she the peds department?

Yes, after an interview with a strong applicant, PD contacted PD from partner's specialty, resulting in a post-rejection interview invite. They're helping themselves out as much as they're helping you out.