Please share why the THINKING thread was locked.
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Read This thread was locked, why?
Started by Gastrapathy
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Actually, no idea why its showing as closed. There isn't a mod action listed on it. That's strange, because it should automatically log when a mod or admin takes an action. Perhaps the OP closed it?
I'll reopen until we can get some clarity on what's up with it.
Tagging @AvoidMilitaryMedicine to see if he closed it, since he’s the op.
Occam's Razor - that's what I was thinking. And, in my uninformed opinion, I would actually think to reopen it might be infringing on that user's privilege.
It could also just be a glitch. Happens every once in a while. If OP wants to close it, he is free to do so. But we wanted to keep it open in case he didn’t actually want it closed. If it is closed again without a mod action, we’ll assume it was OP.
As I said, Occam's Razor. A glitch is definitely not the most likely.
And yet somehow it happens. Not sure why you’re trying to turn this into something more than what it is.
I don't know why you are perseverating. For my 16 years on SDN, I am quite confident the OP closed it. Ascribing it to a glitch is turning it into something more than it is.
You win.
My guess is the OP closed it. Someone recently posted the thread on the official Army Medical Corps facebook group, an audience which includes the Army MC's senior most leadership. Therefore, I would imagine the OP closed it out of fear for his/her anonymity and potential for retribution.
A good reminder for those of us still active duty. Don't post anything here you wouldn't feel comfortable saying in real life, because no one is truly anonymous.
A good reminder for those of us still active duty. Don't post anything here you wouldn't feel comfortable saying in real life, because no one is truly anonymous.
It looks like the op edited his/her posts yesterday as well, so my bet is on the OP closing it. It’s sad that fear of retribution might be a contributing factor.
I wouldn’t recommend mil med, you can quote me on that, and I’m way out of their reach. 😉
I wouldn’t recommend mil med, you can quote me on that, and I’m way out of their reach. 😉
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Yeah, it's a $#!t deal. If Army med wants to quote me in person, they can PM me. Happy to tell them to $%^& right off face-to-face.
This is why I think it can be somewhat unrealistic to expect that potential military applicants, at the age of 20-something, can be expected to "know what they're getting in to." Army med is censoring the information that's out there.
And I get it. He's still on active duty. He's still under the wing, and therefore only allowed to post the party line. And I also get the idea that a lot of the changes are in flux, and that ultimately we don't know how things will shake out, and that most of the discussions are speculative.
However, the changes are happening. It will effect incoming students. No one knows more about where things are at the moment than people in uniform. So telling them not to talk about it, or telling them that they can't express their opinion about it really is suppressing information.
He wasn't leaking the names of CIA operatives. He certainly had a fairly negative opinion, but the only reason to squash that thread is for PR reasons. Which means they're trying to prevent that information from disseminating to potential applicants. They don't care what I think. They got the pound of flesh from me.
This is why I think it can be somewhat unrealistic to expect that potential military applicants, at the age of 20-something, can be expected to "know what they're getting in to." Army med is censoring the information that's out there.
And I get it. He's still on active duty. He's still under the wing, and therefore only allowed to post the party line. And I also get the idea that a lot of the changes are in flux, and that ultimately we don't know how things will shake out, and that most of the discussions are speculative.
However, the changes are happening. It will effect incoming students. No one knows more about where things are at the moment than people in uniform. So telling them not to talk about it, or telling them that they can't express their opinion about it really is suppressing information.
He wasn't leaking the names of CIA operatives. He certainly had a fairly negative opinion, but the only reason to squash that thread is for PR reasons. Which means they're trying to prevent that information from disseminating to potential applicants. They don't care what I think. They got the pound of flesh from me.
HighPriest, your DD-214 must feel nice. I can't imagine you'd feel so emboldened just a few years ago.
Here is a separate follow-up post (after the initial SDN thread was posted) demonstrating a bizarre show of hostility by fellow MC officers.
Here is a separate follow-up post (after the initial SDN thread was posted) demonstrating a bizarre show of hostility by fellow MC officers.
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I did feel emboldened at one point, and then had a phone call from a JAG officer.
I get the situation they're in. I sympathize with guys like Avoid with that respect. My hostility on this thread is less about milmed and more about the control of information spreading to potential applicants. I certainly don't see them asking the unrealistically positive people on this forum (and they do exist) to tone down their rhetoric.
Saying it's cowardice not to come out is just ridiculous nonsense. That's like telling someone in Moscow in 1950 to just come out and tell Stalin how they feel about him. I mean, what are you, a coward?
Yeah, with the OP edits, looks like he was outed or feared he would be.
AvoidMilitaryMedicine
Full Member
Fellow SDNers -- I locked the 'Thinking' thread after a colleague discovered it and posted it on the Army Medical Corps Facebook group. A result, I was hoping to avoid as I expect now that some of the members of the MC group will start posting 'information' consistent with 'drinking the Kool-Aid,' but to my surprise, it seems that even the most die-hard in the group agree with a good amount of what I originally posted. More people are upset with my decision to stay anonymous. Regardless, I decided to remove my original post and have locked the thread.
This is a conversation that needs to happen, I think I've done my part. Good luck to everyone.
This is a conversation that needs to happen, I think I've done my part. Good luck to everyone.
@AvoidMilitaryMedicine So you are the one trying to censor half of the overall debate?! “I was hoping to avoid...members...posting information consistent with drinking the Kool-aid.”
So you want to make sure people in the Facebook group only discuss the negatives? Real nice. But, I’m actually not surprised.
So you want to make sure people in the Facebook group only discuss the negatives? Real nice. But, I’m actually not surprised.
Certainly, both sides should be argued.
At the same time, the burden of proof is on the military/those with kool-aid stained lips, not on the people criticizing it simply because
1- The military is much more powerful
2 - The inherent benefits of HPSP (debt avoidance) don't need as much explaining. So students don't need as much information about why they should join as they do why they should not. The former has a very expensive marketing campaign and a literal cadre of recruiters
3 - If you sign your life away for 7+ years and find out after-the-fact that things are better than you expected, that's no big deal. The reverse is.
But I wouldn't have ever deleted my post out of fear of counter-points. Just out of fear of being stuffed into a closet office on some Aleutian island.
At the same time, the burden of proof is on the military/those with kool-aid stained lips, not on the people criticizing it simply because
1- The military is much more powerful
2 - The inherent benefits of HPSP (debt avoidance) don't need as much explaining. So students don't need as much information about why they should join as they do why they should not. The former has a very expensive marketing campaign and a literal cadre of recruiters
3 - If you sign your life away for 7+ years and find out after-the-fact that things are better than you expected, that's no big deal. The reverse is.
But I wouldn't have ever deleted my post out of fear of counter-points. Just out of fear of being stuffed into a closet office on some Aleutian island.
Anyway, I've seen Wrath of Khan. I know they stuffed one of those brainstem-eating worms into @AvoidMilitaryMedicine's ear.
I hear what you’re saying and agree for the most part, but there is more to this forum than join or don’t join. I came back on to try to help future MilMeds and even current ones understand the system a bit better so they can make sure they are doing the right things to maximize their chance of success/happiness.
Just telling people don’t do it because there are potential bad things that can happen isn’t very informative.
There was a ton of valuable information in that thread. It was referenced often when people reach out to me and made them think twice or three times before joining. That is so important because they need to understand the negatives and accept them fully.
I understand wanting to maintain anonymity. I don’t understand or agree with censoring half of a discussion. Censoring is cowardice. Anonymity is not cowardice.
I understand wanting to maintain anonymity. I don’t understand or agree with censoring half of a discussion. Censoring is cowardice. Anonymity is not cowardice.
Of course not. You tell them don't do it and WHY. Just like telling them what they can do to be happy and to avoid pitfalls if they do join. But it really is, ultimately, a join or don't question for potential applicants, at least initially.
Once you're in, you can talk all day about how to stay happy, but you're stuck. I do think it's important to talk ahead of time about what the best mindset is and how to avoid some of the issues that plague the system. The burden of proof is still on the military. I don't think anyone gives a ton of credence to people who just say "don't dot it. it sucks. the end." If they do, they probably make a lot of bad decisions.
Agree with that. Also true to the military.
@AvoidMilitaryMedicine
Dude. Stopping posting is one thing. Erasing your posts is another.
Dude. Stopping posting is one thing. Erasing your posts is another.
AvoidMilitaryMedicine
Full Member
I understand your perspective and I largely agree with you. The thread was meant for prospective students and in my opinion, there was plenty of back and forth in the thread such that both sides were well represented. I didn't want the thread to be posted or shared with the MC FB group because I wanted it to be open and unfiltered and in my opinion, it could no longer be that if senior leadership was involved. I'll be a civilian again in a couple of years and I don't want to spend my last years in the Army in a "closet office on the Aleutian islands."
This will be my last post as Avoid. I'll be back.
All I’m hearing and seeing from what has happened over the last few hours are selfish reactions to things not going exactly as you had envisioned it. No wonder you are so unhappy in MilMed.
Preserving Anonymity is one thing. Filtering the discussion is another. You made it clear what your initial intent with deleting was. You do you.
The commissar vanishes.
I don’t know. I kinda see his point. I’m not familiar with the Facebook group, but if it really is all higher ups, then they are the least likely to want to admit that mistakes were made in the reformation of military medicine. They would have a strong incentive to try to block potential HPSP applicants from knowing what is going on. I don’t even think they have disclosed the reality to current USUHS students. It’s not in their best interest to have well-informed applicants. Well-informed applicants would turn and run, which would end military medicine. I think most of us already had a relatively unbiased discussion. I’m actually pretty happy with my job, but I don’t think med students should take the scholarship now. The reality is that almost no potential medical student knows what specialty they want going into medical school, so HPSP and USUHS would ultimately result in them limiting their options before they know what exists. That is undoubtedly unwise.
I don’t know about current students, but when I asked about the changes, they were pretty honest with me.
I felt like they were pretty straight with me too.
I do wish more info was available to make my decision, but it is what it is. Time to hurry up and wait!
"There are lots of changes happening. We don't want to speculate as to what things are going to look like." I don't think they could honestly give you more than that. If you're happy with that, that's fine. I wouldn't have been over a decade ago.
That being said I've gotten phenomenal training in a bucket 1 specialty and am heading to the .civ for fellowship. So my experience has worked out and been great. Ask me in 10 years after 8 deployments and that opinion may be different.
They actually told me that changes are coming and no one can be sure what will happen, but then they actually did offer some honest speculation. It’s good enough for me. I’m okay being a Naval Officer first and a physician second—at least for four years. I’ve been active duty enlisted for 7 years now, so it’s not like I don’t entirely know what I’m getting myself into. If the changes aren’t tolerable, I’ll get out when I can.
I think you're the exception rather than the rule to the average HPSP/USUHS student with your experience and your willingness to GMO and out.
Yeah probably. I think coming in fresh with no .mil experience really puts one at a disadvantage wrt satisfaction from a .mil career because of how many things are outside your control.
Twentynine Palms is only an hour from Palm Springs. Not quite the same as DG. You can't even get contact lens prescriptions filled there lol. It is warm though.
Toss up which is worse DG or Polk
Eh. I've been stationed on an island. It was bigger than DG, and I still hated it after a month. I'll take pretty much anywhere on the mainland over an island base. I've never been on an Army base though. Only Navy and Air Force.
They're ok. Depends upon how your feel about cockroaches, rats, and cholera. You ever seen Thunderdome? basically they're the city around Thunderdome, without the Thunderdome. Or Tina Turner.
Yeah, I've heard Army bases tend to be in areas where the surrounding area survives because of the base.
Army needs land, preferably cheap land. That's how you get mile after mile of strip malls filled with tattoo parlors and army/navy surplus stores.
Also...posts. We call them posts. Y'all can keep your fancy "bases".
Also...posts. We call them posts. Y'all can keep your fancy "bases".
Yeah, saying "post" just sounds weird. Also, the fancy bases are the AF bases. Ours are basically just shipyards.
Have you seen 29 Palms? It is barber shops, tattoo parlors and Thai massage places on every corner.
I don't know if you've been there, but Thule is an interesting place: wild Arctic foxes that have no fear of humans and will walk right up to you, everything built on stilts or with cold air ducts underneath to prevent melting of the permafrost and a 24-hour a day club, (the Top of the World Club). You can walk across the bay even in spring (in April, 23.5 hours of light with a token sunrise/sunset). It's a Danish home rule territory and nominally a Danish air base (with a long one-way runway painted white with orange markers to reduce heating of the permafrost beneath the pavement.)
There’s nothing wrong with 29 Palms. 1 hr or less to Palm Springs, 2 1/2 hours to Los Angeles, San Diego, or Vegas.
There are way worse places to be trapped for a few years.
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