READ THIS: you think you can't get accepted, you're wrong.

[bm0839]

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This is a PM I sent to someone asking me about some info......I've decided to post it as a little confidence booster to many of you. I know that there are going to be people who have overcame greater odds than I, but mine were pretty bad nonetheless. Enjoy......

Well, here's my story:

Graduated high school in 1993
Attended Indiana State University from 1993-1998 without graduating. I had a couple of good semester and mostly average ones with a couple of really bad ones. I repeated Math 4 times b/c I never went.....always partying. Finally I was in my last semester of nursing school and just quit going....got all F's b/c of it.....my final GPA for 140-ish credit hours at ISU was 2.78.

After dropping out I moved to Indianapolis and sold cars for a while.....all while continuing to party my ass off.

Finally decided to finish my nursing degree online......finished it in Nov of 2000 with all C's. never really studied very much.

Okay.......that was my imature years....I was always pretty smart, but just never would apply myself.

Now, started working as a nurse.....i got real interested in science and medicine.

Toyed around with becoming a perfusionist, CRNA, or even going to the Carribean to medical school.

End result.......Got married, had 2 kids, and enrolled at IUPUI in Indianapolis in fall of 2002. I knew I wanted to become a Physician and also knew that I would have to completely prove my dedication and intelligence.

Plan.....I started a Biology major from scratch.....took me 3 years to complete it including all prereqs for medical school. My GPA was 3.74. Took the MCAT.......9,9,9 =27Q

I applied only to IU school of medicine....because I knew a few people in high places at IU, I was told that they were told by a few important people that I would most likely be accepted due to my impressive perserverance and comeback performance.

Went to my interview.........the individual I interviewed with was a surgeon.....anyways, I did not know at the time that he used to work at the same hospital I did but was basically required (strongly urged) to quit practice and do mostly research b/c he wasn't a very good surgeon (I was told this by several of my Staff physician friends after they found out who I had interviewed with....they actually apologized to me for having to even meet that man and joked around with eachother about him being on an admissions committe....enough said........they also told me that this individual had a history of being notoriously mean and hateful to Nurses)......Okay.....so back to the interview with this guy. He absolutely REAMED ME!!! He was so fixated on me being a nurse and emphasizing that my role was to be inferior to a physician that he could not get past it and failed to recognize that I was actually a prospective medical student. He actually told me that Nurses are not Doctors and Nor should they be. End result....horrible interview with him and I arguing back and forth about his belief that physicians are basically GOD. I basically called him out on it and said Bull****.

Okay........finally in may.....rejection letter.......One of my close friends at IU took up my situation with someone else important and this person was appalled by my interview experience.....so, got another interview letter in July.

Next step....August, reinterviewed and I started the 1 year MS in biology: 15credit hours of pure masters level classwork.....pretty intense. Retook MCAT= 10,10,10 = 30P

Reapplied to many schools......interviewed ..........accepted by the 1st school I interviewed at within a week......withdrew all other apps except for IU.........accepted at IU in February.

So, as you see.....there are very few people who have ever had to overcome what I have to get accepted to medical school. In light of this....IT CAN BE DONE.

You don't need a 34 MCAT with a 4.0 GPA to be accepted to an allopathic medical school. You have what they want......maturity, determination, dedication to education, and intelligence. Try to do as well as you can, but if you get some A-'s or a B+ don't beat yourself up. If you have to, take an extra year of pure science.....aka upper level courses that interest you. Also, when you go back to do pre-reqs......read this carefully......MAKE SURE YOU ARE ENROLLED FULLTIME.....AT LEAST 12 CREDIT HOURS......this is VERY important as taking 1 or 2 premed courses at a time and getting an A is easy. Taking several at the same time with a full course load and getting A's is indicative of being able to successfully handle the workload of medical school. Also, don't discount osteopathic medicine, especially if you want to do a primary care or noncompetitive field such as internal medicine and some of it's subspecialties. You will get just as good of an education whether you do MD or DO. I went MD because it was my state school and tuition was lower.....however my second choice school (yes, even over other MD schools) was an osteopathic shcool.....and coincidentally, that was the other school I was accepted to. So since it was my second choice, I threw out all my other apps excpet for my 1st choice of IU.....luckily, it all panned out and IU accepted me.

Well, food for thought hopefully.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

This is a PM I sent to someone asking me about some info......I've decided to post it as a little confidence booster to many of you. I know that there are going to be people who have overcame greater odds than I, but mine were pretty bad nonetheless. Enjoy......

Well, here's my story:

<snip>

Well, food for thought hopefully.

So what I took from your story (good one by the way) was that to get into an allopathic medical school are...

1. Decent showing of academic prowess in a post bacc/graduate work.
2. Competitive MCAT
3. And the most important thing for a non-trad: connections

I fear that those of us who don't already know somebody on the inside, such as knowing the dean personally, somebody who works there, or know somebody on the admissions committee, then our chances of getting in as non-trads is nigh on impossible. At least for allopathic schools. Osteopathic is a different story.

 

[Benna]

^ Mmmkay. I got out of the story that the OP wanted it badly, had a rotten experience, and kept going anyway. The inside connections thing annoys me a little bit because he didn't address the problematic interview with the school until after he'd been rejected, at which point he had to revert to channels not available to the average applicant.

Because of that, I don't think this story speaks very well to the experience the rest of us are likely to have. It's a good story, and congrats on getting in, but the advice that came out of it (about DO, post-bac, etc) is the same stuff we've heard all along. It's just coming from a student who got past bigger odds.

 

[gotmeds?]

My take on the story wasn't about how the OP scammed his way into med school through inside connections. It was about how he worked his butt off to get into med school despite very crappy odds. He also got into his second-choice school without any connections. So my hat is off the the OP. Congratulations!

 

[deleted125964]

I have a question for the OP. Do you think you could've been accepted into an MD school without having to go back and do another degree? Could you have just taken all the necessary courses and then some upper levels in order to boost your GPA?

I'm just asking because I'm in a somewhat similar situation such as your own. I took no science courses in undergrad, so I don't know if you had, but I was just planning on taking the pre reqs and perhaps some more courses to boost the GPA. But is a whole new degree a better idea? I'm kind of iffy on spending the time and money on another bachelor's.

But yeah, good for you for overcoming the odds!

 

[smugtroll]

i was pretty inspired....and then....my shoulders slumped when I read about the your inside relationship.

 

[notdeadyet]

I fear that those of us who don't already know somebody on the inside, such as knowing the dean personally, somebody who works there, or know somebody on the admissions committee, then our chances of getting in as non-trads is nigh on impossible. At least for allopathic schools. Osteopathic is a different story.

Nah. If you have good grades, a good GPA, and good clinical experiences, you have the same shot as a 21 year old, if not better.

Where I think many nontrads have problems is when they apply with weaker applications and expect being a nontrad to compensate. You can have a wonderful 10 year career as a nurse behind you, but it won't compensate for a lack of preparation to nail the MCAT or poor grades.

Osteopathic schools are great in the sense that they cut a lot more slack than allopathic ones for applicants that don't have the numbers (and I respect the hell out of osteopathic schools for that). But if you have the numbers, there's nothing stopping you from an allopathic education.

 

[kemper]

First off Lifetime Doc I sympathize with you and I know that I would feel awful if in your situation. I live in Texas and that may change my situation from yours but:
I'm 44 yrs. old, no contacts, but my wife is a physician
No high school diploma but started and eventually sold a construction business
began my undergrad. at junior college at age 39, went for 2yrs and took both physics and chemistry, later graduated from 4 yr. university with 3.65 gpa
took the mcat 3 times 25,26, and 30
applied to 5 allopathic schools, recieved 5 interviews, and 3 acceptances
my personal statement was mentioned by each school as a big reason I was chosen for an interview....it's very, very important. I had a company help me write mine and it was worth every penny. I would be glad to share it with you just pm me with an e-mail address.
As you can see i'm an average applicant, but I had an interesting story that was well told and it helped me stand out.

 

[bm0839]

#1----my inside connections did not help me in any way shape or form be accepted, they only allowed to find out what the admissions committe MIGHT think.....

After all, the woman I married was the grandaughter of a very prominent political figure.........and I got denied with that in mind......so as you see, who you know does NOT help in the least.

Also, I was enraged by the interview and wanted to appeal, however, when I spoke to my friend they advised me to just let it go, reapply, and try again......most likely I would not get the same interviewer.....also, this person said that when someone makes an appeal such as this, physicians tend to stick together and may blackball the applicant. This person told me I was VERY LUCKY to even get the second interview the next year b/c of what my 1st interviewer thought about me.

Here's my point.......all in all, if you work hard enough, PERSERVERE, keep your head up, and be willing to take chances, apply to many places, you WILL most likely be accepted.

I'm sorry if I came across as scamming my way, that's not what I intended to do.....I was just meaning to imply that I had someone who was able to communicate to me what the committee MIGHT (I stress this word) be likely to do with me.

So basically, the only advantage I had was not being completely in the dark.....although in the end, I actually was in the dark even though I knew people......after all, look at the end results the first time through.

Had my connections had been an influence, I would've been accepted the first time through.

I worked hard, kept chuggin' away, and did the types of things that made me a strong applicant......THAT IS WHY I WAS ACCEPTED.

As far as completing another degree.....some people just have too, you could probably answer that question yourself b/c you know where you stand. In my case, it was the only way. And as you noticed, I actually had to get 2 degrees.....my BS in biology followed by my MS in biology.

Any other questions let me know. Good luck to all of you.

 

[bm0839]

Where I think many nontrads have problems is when they apply with weaker applications and expect being a nontrad to compensate. You can have a wonderful 10 year career as a nurse behind you, but it won't compensate for a lack of preparation to nail the MCAT or poor grades.

This is absolutely correct!!!!

 

[bm0839]

I understand your frustration about hearing the same old stuff over and over again. But that is exactly the point. The reason you hear the same stuff over and over again is because it flat out works. There is no magic formula to follow just because you're a non-trad. Also, I don't care if you know elvis or the president.....it will not get you in. Bottom line.......you gotta do what everyone else is doing but work a little harder because you are non-trad. The same ole same ole that you've constantly been hearing is what you have to do. Believe me, when I was trying to get in I was always on this board for the first couple of years until it dawned on me that I just gotta do what I keep hearing......aka the same thing you always hear....good grades, decent MCAT, good life experiences= winning formula = MD or DO.

 

[smugtroll]

#1----my inside connections did not help me in any way shape or form be accepted, they only allowed to find out what the admissions committe MIGHT think.....

...I like the story and I believe you......however I can't get over your "connection" part.

If I were in management and my buddy's application came across my desk, I'd adovate for him with management.

Sorry dude. I don't buy your 100% merit sell.

 

[smugtroll]

what was your cum GPA? Before and after post-bac 3.78 gpa?

 

[NonTradMed]

Also, when you go back to do pre-reqs......read this carefully......MAKE SURE YOU ARE ENROLLED FULLTIME.....AT LEAST 12 CREDIT HOURS......this is VERY important as taking 1 or 2 premed courses at a time and getting an A is easy. Taking several at the same time with a full course load and getting A's is indicative of being able to successfully handle the workload of medical school.

This is a very good point and easily missed. I had a friend who took only one or two science courses at a time and then added 'music appreciation' and 'piano lessons' as her other classes. She did well on all her classes but had a hard time getting acceptances because (I believe) her schedule courseload was perceived as 'too easy'. Students need to keep that in mind when they're picking out courses.

And it's always good to hear of success stories. The admissions game can be tough on nontrads, we all need to hear about what works and what doesn't more than a few times so it doesn't get lost in all the other garbage we have on these threads. Great story, OP! 👍

Where I think many nontrads have problems is when they apply with weaker applications and expect being a nontrad to compensate. You can have a wonderful 10 year career as a nurse behind you, but it won't compensate for a lack of preparation to nail the MCAT or poor grades.

Osteopathic schools are great in the sense that they cut a lot more slack than allopathic ones for applicants that don't have the numbers (and I respect the hell out of osteopathic schools for that). But if you have the numbers, there's nothing stopping you from an allopathic education.

Alot of nontrads do believe that their previous experience should 'count' for something. The thing is, from my experience, you're previous experience is seen as a boon, an extra goody similar to doing summer research or volunteer work at a hospital, but it's not a REPLACEMENT for your grades. Your stats will almost ALWAYS be given a higher priority than your previous job (unless your previous job was involved in academia....).

I'd have to disagree with you on the DO school. DO schools don't cut you slacks on stats, they just have lower stat cutoffs than allo schools. I think it feels easier as a result. They're also not as random about their applicants, i.e they don't reject people who are qualified in every way but the interviewer hated how they dressed or whatnot and they were rejected. However, I feel that the fast growth of DO schools will mean less qualified individuals will enter med school who may or may not be ready for med school. But that's for another thread. 🙄

 

[Nasrudin]

What do yall think about 3 science classes and full-time work. The thing is I could take 15 or more units and get maybe a 3.5 at least but I've got to pull up my gpa from the high 2's to atleast 3.3-3.4 and that means 4.0's as opposed to 3.5's might make a huge difference for me. thoughts? thanks.

great story OP!

 

[bm0839]

#1----my inside connections did not help me in any way shape or form be accepted, they only allowed to find out what the admissions committe MIGHT think.....

...I like the story and I believe you......however I can't get over your "connection" part.

If I were in management and my buddy's application came across my desk, I'd adovate for him with management.

Sorry dude. I don't buy your 100% merit sell.

I can certainly see your point but you gotta remember....I was connected the first time I applied......didn't help me one bit. I got rejected flat out....not even wait-listed. By the way my connection was NOT on the admissions committee and NOT in administration.....it was simply a respected faculty member. I also had a recommendation letter from a nationally renowned neurosurgeon on faculty there as well......that didn't get me in the first time either. I'm just trying to put to rest the fact that there is a fasle belief that you have to know someone to get in. If I had gotten rejected from IU you would be thinking differently about my story. However since I got in.......it must be partially because I knew someone. This is a misconception. In retrospect, I probably should have worded my original post better because what I wanted people to understand is that it takes nothing short of HARD WORK to get in and that no matter how bad you have done in the past.....you can do it.

Remember, there are usually 20-30 people on a committee and they all have to vote.

 

[bm0839]

What do yall think about 3 science classes and full-time work. The thing is I could take 15 or more units and get maybe a 3.5 at least but I've got to pull up my gpa from the high 2's to atleast 3.3-3.4 and that means 4.0's as opposed to 3.5's might make a huge difference for me. thoughts? thanks.

great story OP!

Definitely do at least 12 credit hours no matter what. 3 sciences is fine.....just add another course in there like sociology or something. It is much better to put in the class time to do it right the first time than to rush through and get rejected. This is your future, so plan carefully. Full-time work is favorable as my interviewers the 2nd time were very impressed that the entire time I went back to school and even through my masters degree I worked full-time and was a full-time father and husband as well. However what impressed them most was my ability to take 15-17 credit hours every semester at the same time.

By the way, even though my Biology BS and MS GPA was 3.74, my total cum for all time including my horrible past was only a 3.2. The interviewers told me for a nontraditional student like myself, the admissions committee didn't care about that......what they cared about was my RECENT good performance over an EXTENDED period of time. They could definitely see a change and desire in me to be a physician. To them, that's what mattered most. I had the passion.

 

[AdroitDarkHorse]

MAKE SURE YOU ARE ENROLLED FULLTIME.....AT LEAST 12 CREDIT HOURS......this is VERY important as taking 1 or 2 premed courses at a time and getting an A is easy. Taking several at the same time with a full course load and getting A's is indicative of being able to successfully handle the workload of medical school.

That is your opinion, not FACT. I know several who took less and longer to graduate and got accepted to allopathic schools. They had other activities, i.e., full time work.

Moral of the story: Just do well in your pre requisites.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

I'd have to disagree with you on the DO school. DO schools don't cut you slacks on stats, they just have lower stat cutoffs than allo schools. I think it feels easier as a result. They're also not as random about their applicants, i.e they don't reject people who are qualified in every way but the interviewer hated how they dressed or whatnot and they were rejected. However, I feel that the fast growth of DO schools will mean less qualified individuals will enter med school who may or may not be ready for med school. But that's for another thread. 🙄

Not exactly true. DO schools do cut you slack by replacing grades instead of averaging them... a HUGE difference.

 

[MJB]

Hmm..guess where I screwed up was not calling up my buddy on the adcom at MD State School 1 and 2.

🙂

Congrats on your acceptance, but we all don't know someone on the adcoms...

 

[MJB]

That is your opinion, not FACT. I know several who took less and longer to graduate and got accepted to allopathic schools. They had other activities, i.e., full time work.

Moral of the story: Just do well in your pre requisites.

I agree..I assure you if I had taken 12 hours and not worked, it would have been like vacation compared to what I've been doing.

 

[Maigret Man]

Third that here.

My post-bacc program is based on students taking two classes per semester (8 credits) over two years. I took two and worked full-time, which was killer. Most students work or volunteer part-time at most. Our program has a high success rate.

The point is you need to get the grades and learn the material for the MCAT.

 

[NonTradMed]

Not exactly true. DO schools do cut you slack by replacing grades instead of averaging them... a HUGE difference.

Only if you've retaken classes, which not everyone applying to DO schools have. For people who have not retaken any classes, I don't believe DO schools treat their applicants any different than allo schools, they just have a lower cutoff point.

 

[NonTradMed]

Dp.

 

[NonTradMed]

That is your opinion, not FACT. I know several who took less and longer to graduate and got accepted to allopathic schools. They had other activities, i.e., full time work.

Moral of the story: Just do well in your pre requisites.

No, moral of the story is: nothing is for certain.

But I agree with the OP that, generally speaking, taking a full courseload is preferable to doing it part time or one class at a time approach. From my experience, rule of thumb seems to be that just trying to have an easy schedule is not looked upon on equal footing as with someone who had a full courseload.

Now, some med schools may cut people some slack as long as they maintained good grades while going to school part time while working fulltime. They understand not everyone can drop everything and do classes. But I thinks schools *prefer* to see students handle a full load of undergraduate classs.

From what I've been told and experienced, med schools want to make sure you can carry on a significantly heavy workload. If you just took one prereq at a time and that's all you did, and it took you four years of being a fulltime student to finish your pre-reqs and you got all A's, I'm willing to put good money that many schools will reject you on the basis that they don't know if you can handle the rigors of med school simply because they've never seen you handle a ton of work.

However, I'm sure not all schools look that way. But we don't approach med schools based on exceptional cases, we make plans on how *most* schools approach the admissions process and I'm willing to bet that most schools *still* prefer a full load of science courses rather than taking it in small increments.

 

[smugtroll]

Hey guys...the OP is right!!

I had subpar grades and did above average on the MCAT. I volunteered a ton of hours just told the adcomms how bad I wanted to be a doctor. I worked FT and did great in my post bacc and then I got ACCEPTED. Its is just a matter of how much you want it and how bad your willing to go.


Oh...and I forgot to say that my older brother is an adcomm there. But hey...that doesn't mean anything. I suppose some say it would because I applied to 30 schools and failed to get interviews at any but the med school my brother is at. But hey......total merit on my part....I mean just because my brother is on the adcomm...er, well okay guys...I confess he is the Dean of the medical school....but wait!!!!! That does not mean anything.

Yeah, its just about wanting it!

 

[Meatwad]

Wow, that is smug.

 

[Faze2]

No, moral of the story is: nothing is for certain.

But I agree with the OP that, generally speaking, taking a full courseload is preferable to doing it part time or one class at a time approach. From my experience, rule of thumb seems to be that just trying to have an easy schedule is not looked upon on equal footing as with someone who had a full courseload.

Now, some med schools may cut people some slack as long as they maintained good grades while going to school part time while working fulltime. They understand not everyone can drop everything and do classes. But I thinks schools *prefer* to see students handle a full load of undergraduate classs.

From what I've been told and experienced, med schools want to make sure you can carry on a significantly heavy workload. If you just took one prereq at a time and that's all you did, and it took you four years of being a fulltime student to finish your pre-reqs and you got all A's, I'm willing to put good money that many schools will reject you on the basis that they don't know if you can handle the rigors of med school simply because they've never seen you handle a ton of work.

However, I'm sure not all schools look that way. But we don't approach med schools based on exceptional cases, we make plans on how *most* schools approach the admissions process and I'm willing to bet that most schools *still* prefer a full load of science courses rather than taking it in small increments.

I definately understand this, cause I know that most adcoms do like trad students that graduated in four years with 8 semesters of full time courses. That I think is obvious, but I do have a few questions/comments about this.

1) As a pre med undergrad, you are required to take a certain amount of "general courses" like art, sociology, history, etc. Every schedule that has been given to me by pre med advisors have had the student taking ONE or TWO sciences at the most during the semester. A "heavy science semester" I saw consisted of something like, CHEM I with lab, BIO I with lab, somtimes a math course if needed, and then something like ART or American history to make them full time. Now I have about 130 undergraduate credits just from my first degree. So now that I am taking the sciences, I have already taken all of those "Bull***" classes that most undergrads take during those semesters. A lot of people write that you should take upper level sciences along with you pre reqs, but a lot of those classes require completion of BIO and CHEM, which I have not completed yet, so how would adcoms expect me to take Genetics or BioChem when I haven't cmpleted Chem or Bio yet. Believe me that I have looked for good classes to take with my sciences, but I am not lying when I say that the ones i am "allowed" to take I have already taken in my undergrad, like Physio, Human Health, and all of the maths. So am I just supposed to waste money and sign up for other classes just to make me full time.

2) I simply cannot afford this semester to be full time right now. But explain to me why adcoms looks down on something like this.

8 credits this semester while working full time in and inner city ER where I've been for over a year now, hopefully will soon be working/volunteering for a research project at Jefferson Hosp one or two days/week, have earned over 100+ hours volunteering at HUP (UPENN's Hospital) starting last year.

Now this is just this semester. I plan to take 2 summer classes, which is pretty much full time cause it is every day. Next fall and spring I plan to take 12 credits cause I do know that it looks better. I will also be studying for the MCAT's as well. Plus I am going to gain more research and shadowng experience between now and then too.

3) I understand that adcoms want to see if you can handle a full course load, because it is a lot of info all at one time, more like what med school will be. But I agree with whoever said that if they were a full time student that did not have to work, my life would be much easier compared to what it is now. I am not saying it would be a breeze by any means, but I have been a full time student in my undergrad, and I had much more time to devote to class than I do now with just 2 classes and work. What some people do not realize is that when you work full time, that is 40 hours less per week that you can study. That's a lot. If I took the "hours I study/week+the hours I work/week", I would bet it equals a lot more than the amount of hours studied/week by a full time student. I know studying and working are two different things, but I definately have less time to study for those two classes than a student taking a full course load would for the same two classes.

All this being said, if I could do things differently I would have been a full time undergrad pre med student. But hindsight is blah blah blah......

And I am by no means saying that a full time student is not working their ass off, cause they are. And I agree that if I could I would not work and enroll full time, but I would do that only because I knwo that's what adcoms look for. My point of this LLLLOOOONNNNGGGG post is that I don't fully understand why adcoms would look down on someone in my situation.

 

[lilnoelle]

A "heavy science semester" I saw consisted of something like, CHEM I with lab, BIO I with lab, somtimes a math course if needed, and then something like ART or American history to make them full time.
.

Really? My sophomore and junior year were FULL of science. I guess that might have been due to a change of majors (needed to make up time) but for the most part, I was taking 5 science courses at a time and maybe one blow off course.

I do understand your point though. Its hard to understand why an adcomm would think the non traditional has an easier load when they would've had a full load without the courses (job, kids, mortgage, etc) where the undergrad student likely has no concept of responsibility and gets to spend most of their time in the social scene. I worked hard in undergrad, but not really in comparison to life after college.

 

[spicedmanna]

1) A lot of people write that you should take upper level sciences along with you pre reqs, but a lot of those classes require completion of BIO and CHEM, which I have not completed yet, so how would adcoms expect me to take Genetics or BioChem when I haven't cmpleted Chem or Bio yet. Believe me that I have looked for good classes to take with my sciences, but I am not lying when I say that the ones i am "allowed" to take I have already taken in my undergrad, like Physio, Human Health, and all of the maths. So am I just supposed to waste money and sign up for other classes just to make me full time.

No, that's a misunderstanding. When people say to take upper-level science courses, they are presuming that you have already taken the premedical prerequisites at some point in your educational career. If you haven't, then you should, of course, concentrate on doing that. You are not completely barred from more advanced courses for very long, however. For instance, you can take some advanced biology courses, such as genetics, or cell and molecular biology, after just one semester of a premedical prerequisite, such as General Biology I. You often don't need General Biology II, to take the aforementioned advanced classes.

Basically we are just saying that you should strive for full time, which if you are taking all science/math courses, will be basically like 12 semester-credit hours. You are in no way obligated to do so, but it will be toward your benefit. An example of fulltime with just premedical prerequisites will be something like General Biology I + Lab (4 credits), General Chemistry I + Lab (4 credits), and General Physics I + Lab (4 credits); the total number of credits will be 12, and believe me, if you take just those three classes together in one semester, it should be difficult enough! It is possible, though. I did it and received all A's, but I'd be lying if I said it was anything but challenging.

2) I simply cannot afford this semester to be full time right now. But explain to me why adcoms looks down on something like this.

It's not that they look down on less than full time work, it's that they are looking for consistantly good work across a difficult schedule (which they perceive as being fulltime work). They want to predict how you will do in the intense academic environment of medical school. Receiving A's while taking one to two classes per semester doesn't necessarily show them that. Many schools will take into account what you can afford and if you have to work, so don't fret if taking a less-than-fulltime load is the consequence of such things. Just do as much as you can with what you have, given your life circumstances.

 

[kemper]

There was a couple of semesters that I only took one class, when I was asked about it I told my interviewer that getting my degree was not my first priority at the time---my daughter/family was and that I would apply to medical school when she went to college ( I will actually be starting with her still having 1 more yr.) ....I also explained that medical school would be a priority since my daughter would be away at school and my wife who is a physician understands the time commitment that medical school demands and she supports my dream. I had over 30 hrs. of classes ( I had 1/2 of those drops in one semester) that I withdrew from because of family commitments/wife's practice, I thought it would be a problem but everyone seemed to understand. The people interviewing us have families and they understand that older students with families and jobs will differ from the norm...Honesty is the best policy.

 

[MJB]

Its hard to understand why an adcomm would think the non traditional has an easier load when they would've had a full load without the courses (job, kids, mortgage, etc) where the undergrad student likely has no concept of responsibility and gets to spend most of their time in the social scene.

I don't know either, but that's certainly the impression given.

 

[Faze2]

Appreciate the responses. But again I don't want to make it sound like a full time student is any less hard workng than someone like me. I fully admit that I wish I would have acted like a full time student when I was instead of just being a jackass. But hey, live and learn.

I do want to be full time next year as I said before. Would doing well with 12 credits per semester for two semesters show adcoms that I can handle the work? Bear in mind that I will still be working, just probably more part time, and shadowing an hopefully doing some more reasech.

 

[spicedmanna]

Appreciate the responses. But again I don't want to make it sound like a full time student is any less hard workng than someone like me. I fully admit that I wish I would have acted like a full time student when I was instead of just being a jackass. But hey, live and learn.

I do want to be full time next year as I said before. Would doing well with 12 credits per semester for two semesters show adcoms that I can handle the work? Bear in mind that I will still be working, just probably more part time, and shadowing an hopefully doing some more reasech.

Well, obviously, I'm not an adcomm member, so I can't say for sure, but it is my impression that if you are taking all science classes, 12 credits is good. It's the fulltime credit requirement at my school, anyhow.

 

[smugtroll]

I'm taking 16 hours this semester with 3 sciences and working 20 hours a week.

It has proven to be more difficult than I anticipated however I remain committed to a 4.0.

Still, it is going to be a bit_h!

 

[bm0839]

That is your opinion, not FACT. I know several who took less and longer to graduate and got accepted to allopathic schools. They had other activities, i.e., full time work.

Moral of the story: Just do well in your pre requisites.

I would agree with you on this only if those people you know didn't have any baggage associated....such as a history of bad grades, etc. When I stated the above, I meant it toward people who might not have done so well with their past grades, etc.

 

[Faze2]

I would agree with you on this only if those people you know didn't have any baggage associated....such as a history of bad grades, etc. When I stated the above, I meant it toward people who might not have done so well with their past grades, etc.

That's a good point too. I think the reason why a lot of formal post bacc programs that have only two classes per semester is becuase the students they accept into the program usually have a decent gpa. >3.3

That is one of the main reasons why I want to have at least 2 semesters where I have at least 12 credits, cause I do come with "baggage" (Bad undergrad GPA) So I agree with you on that. If I had graduated college with a 3.9, two classes at a time would not be such a big deal, but that is not the case with me.

 

[Nonnahs]

BM was accepted to schools other than the one he had a connection with, so he/she should be given credit. Don't discount their story.

It was great, made me all hopeful and such. 🙂

Off topic, sorta, what does OP mean? I see it everywhere and can't figure out what it stands for. Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanks.

to us all

 

[Quix]

OP = Original Poster (person starting the thread)

 

[RPCVGuy]

As a fourth-year medical student who was a a nontrad (9 yrs b/w univ and medical school) and took 3 tries to get in, I have to agree with the multiple posts here re: grades and MCATS. Bottom line: if you want a 'sure ticket' to medical school, take out the loans, do a post-bac program and kick ass. I wish there was a simpler answer to it, but at the end of the day, your life experiences really are the icing that set you apart from younger applicants. Admin committees will not cut people slack for poor GPA/MCATs - end of story.

I wish someone I trusted had took me aside and told me to take the plunge and go into a little debt for what I really wanted. As it was, I got lucky to get into medical school and would have fared much better had I enrolled in a post-bac program, worked my butt off and earned A's.

 

[Benna]

I think the argument over the number of post-bac hours to take will probably never be settled because every case is different, especially with non-trads. I'm taking 10 hours and working 30. This is fine with me because my program doesn't allow a full-time science load unless you really really beg for it, and the bottom line is that I *have* to work. I don't have undergrad baggage and have proven myself in graduate work, so I'm not worried.

Kudos to the people who have the means (in both time and money) to take a full course-load. You'll finish faster, and I wish that was me. But we'll all eventually get to the same point, and as long as we can prove we used our time wisely and can handle hard work, I doubt those who take a few extra semesters to do it will fare too badly.

 

[gotmeds?]

If you're in school, you don't have to work. You can take out loans. Yes, it's a scary, dangerous gamble, but if you can work your butt off to get the A's, it's worth it. I made that choice almost two years ago when I enrolled in a post-bacc program. I cashed out my 401k and took out tens of thousands of dollars in loans. Now I'm sitting on a small mountain of debt, but I'm also sitting on some med school acceptances from schools that I really like. If you're sure that med school is what you want and you're willing to work for it, you have to take the plunge at some point.

 

[RPCVGuy]

have to agree with GotMeds

biggest gamble I made was assuming that I could do it while working. ended up that it just wasnt what admit committees at the places I was applying were looking for. almost ended up not getting to pursue my dream b/c of it. ended up having to go back and do post-bac work at the end of the day in order to 'prove' I was academically competent.

if you have any doubt about your academic record (or fear that it is what is holding back your application), my sincere advice is to fix it by showing schools you can succeed in basic science courses at a major institution (ie no community colleges) at more than 1-2 classes per qrt. that is what most SOMs are looking for, right or wrong.

funny thing is, I have found medical school to be far easier than undergrad - state of mind is everything....

 

[1Path]

If you're in school, you don't have to work. You can take out loans. .

This is by far the biggest mistake I see nontrads make. At interview time, adcoms don't want to hear that your grades are low because you had work while taking classes to feed your 2 kids. Another common error folks make is earning B's in your coursework when you're doing damange control. B's are just OK and won't cut it.

 

[NineShadows]

It's not that they look down on less than full time work, it's that they are looking for consistantly good work across a difficult schedule (which they perceive as being fulltime work). They want to predict how you will do in the intense academic environment of medical school. Receiving A's while taking one to two classes per semester doesn't necessarily show them that. Many schools will take into account what you can afford and if you have to work, so don't fret if taking a less-than-fulltime load is the consequence of such things. Just do as much as you can with what you have, given your life circumstances.

If this is the case, then I really hope the economic factors are considered against the number of credit hours per semester. Otherwise, I am really wasting my time and my VERY hard-earned money working towards a goal that is going to be denied me, and nevermind the high GPA I've earned, it's not valid simply because I can't afford more than two classes per semester? It really sucks to be an out-of-state student, especially when something so important is on the line.

I started to panic once this idea was posted in the thread. I went home last night, and I started freaking out and seriously considering quitting my job, selling my car and jumping into debt just so I can have a better chance at med school. Thank God my husband gave me a mental shake.

I still have hope. It may take me a bit more work than those of you fortunate enough to have the option to quit and dedicate full time attention to coursework at this point, but I can't give up. I've worked too hard, I've bent as far as flexibility allows, I've done without a lot of things I wanted to do or have, I've disagreed with family and friends in order to pursue this goal. That's what the real waste would be, I think. Hopefully, I am not the only one in the same boat who feels the same way.

 

[QofQuimica]

If this is the case, then I really hope the economic factors are considered against the number of credit hours per semester. Otherwise, I am really wasting my time and my VERY hard-earned money working towards a goal that is going to be denied me, and nevermind the high GPA I've earned, it's not valid simply because I can't afford more than two classes per semester? It really sucks to be an out-of-state student, especially when something so important is on the line.

I started to panic once this idea was posted in the thread. I went home last night, and I started freaking out and seriously considering quitting my job, selling my car and jumping into debt just so I can have a better chance at med school. Thank God my husband gave me a mental shake.

I still have hope. It may take me a bit more work than those of you fortunate enough to have the option to quit and dedicate full time attention to coursework at this point, but I can't give up. I've worked too hard, I've bent as far as flexibility allows, I've done without a lot of things I wanted to do or have, I've disagreed with family and friends in order to pursue this goal. That's what the real waste would be, I think. Hopefully, I am not the only one in the same boat who feels the same way.

Do you have a state school nearby? I would advise you to make an appointment with the admissions director there, and get some advice about this issue from the horse's mouth. There is no one size fits all formula to get into medical school, and you have to do the most you can with what you have. If you can only take two classes but you are working full time, that is not a "light schedule," IMO. However, I'm not the adcom, and in the end, my opinion doesn't matter. Neither does anyone else's here. 🙂

 

[gotmeds?]

If this is the case, then I really hope the economic factors are considered against the number of credit hours per semester. Otherwise, I am really wasting my time and my VERY hard-earned money working towards a goal that is going to be denied me, and nevermind the high GPA I've earned, it's not valid simply because I can't afford more than two classes per semester? It really sucks to be an out-of-state student, especially when something so important is on the line.

I don't think that it will be held against you as long as you are doing well in your classes. When I started taking classes before my formal post-bacc program, I was also working full-time and taking 1-2 classes per semester. What will absolutely kill your application, however, is the combination of a reduced courseload with mediocre grades. If you have to work and can only take 2 classes, that's fine. Just get As in those classes.

As usual, Q gave the best advice: call the schools you're interested in and get it straight from the source. As helpful as we all try to be, no one can tell you what they're looking for better than the school itself.

 

[NonTradMed]

The thing is, the admissions game is still geared with the traditional applicant in mind. For those of us who had previous jobs and/or families to contend with, it can be a difficult choice to make, between focusing on school or keeping our jobs.

I tried to do both at first but I took the plunge and quit school to focus completely on the MCAT and the application process. Many people thought I was crazy to do it, particularly since I had already taken the prereqs in college AND I had done the MCAT gig as a sophomore. However, my score expired since then and I needed to go back and relearn stuff that I hadn't looked at in four years and do well on an exam which I only did so-so on the first time around.

I had no family to support/uproot and my parents were willing to let me move back in with them and foot the bill for some extra bio classes I could take. Looking back, I was extremely fortunate to be in the position I was in. I have nothing but complete respect for the nontrads on the boards here who have to juggle fulltime work/family with their prereqs/MCAT are. Adcoms are not looking for people who can juggle fulltime work and school, they're looking for people who have proven themselves with good academic science coursework, which can be hard to do if you have a job. However, I think as long as you have no history of poor academic performance, and you do well on your MCAT and prereqs, you have a good chance of getting in. At least at my med school, the adcom look for dedication as much as good academic performance when looking at applicants.

 

[NineShadows]

There goes that work thing again eating my time and not letting me reply.

Anyway, thank you for the advice, and I certainly will be getting in touch with the schools I am interested in to get their POV. The thing about it is that I am usually on track and try to keep a positive attitude about my abilities and limitations. I guess that I shouldn't have been reading the thread after finding out that some of the classes I was planning to take in the summer are being given 'vacation' until the fall, leaving me only with a bunch of 'easy' ones to pick from.