Read this: Your Med School name does matter

[Qpworueury]

Hello,

I rarely post on the premed page, but I just wanted to add my perspective on this form for aspiring premedical students. I was a very competitive candidate in medical school. I did very well on my first set of interviews for residency - but ended up matching low when it was all said and done. I tried to figure out why this happened. I literally did everything right but some how didn't stick the landing, and ended up at a very mediocre spot. I've come to the conclusion at this time that it was the fact that I didn't go to a well-known medical school. I just wanted make sure to pay it forward and let you all know you should try and get into best named med school possible. I strongly discourage you for taking the DO route if you have other options (primary care aside). Still be a great physician, however have to recognize the role your school name plays in residency admissions. Don't be afraid to retake the MCAT if you're not content, don't be afraid to do GPA repair if you're not content with where you at. I hope people here find this advice valuable.

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[Arabia Magna]

Ok. What specialty?

 

[Medologist342]

Yeah it does absolutely matter where you go, but it certainly isn’t make or break. It’s just good to keep all your doors open, or as open as possible. For instance, let’s say you went to a T100 and want to do something like ophthalmology. You can absolutely match from a T100, but going to a T20 will make that a much easier feat. You have far better connections, opportunities, and a strong brand name vouching for you.

If DO is your only option, go for it, but it makes life much harder and you’ll have to do more in medical school than your MD counterparts to match into competitive specialties. I’d rather do the work in undergrad or before applying to get into the best school I can than have to work extra hard during medical school which is hard enough as is.

 

[Qpworueury]

Ok. What specialty?

A non family med specialty

 

[lumya]

I remember your post about the inappropriate email you sent a PD so I doubt that med school prestige was the only factor that hindered your match.

To my premed friends: yes med school prestige and the type of program helps. I go to a mid tier school and my chances of matching Harvard neurosurg are pretty much slim to none. But we had 2 neurosurg matches last year and a handful of other ROAD specialities. Only 40% of MD applicants get in every year and it feels like that percentage gets lower each year. You can be a perfect fit stats wise for a higher tier school, but with thousands of applicants, sometimes a bit of luck is involved too. You’re not entitled to an acceptance at a T30 school so take whatever is given to you and run with that.

 

[Goro]

Oh my! The denial is strong in this this one.

I suggest that you reas his post history and draw your own conclusions as to the validity of his logic.

Accidentally sent inappropriate email to program

Hello, Throwaway for very obvious reasons. Please DO NOT quote. Accidentally sent inappropriate email to progam

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[GoSpursGo]

I think at this point it is well established that med school prestige matters, particularly in the P/F step 1 universe. However, the outcome from just about any US MD/DO school is still going to be good. And at the end of the day, not everyone gets to go to their dream school, and not everyone gets to match your preferred specialty or location. So as @wysdoc says (or some variant), don’t let perfectionism steal the joy of getting something that is still pretty good.

 

[Qpworueury]

I remember your post about the inappropriate email you sent a PD so I doubt that med school prestige was the only factor that hindered your match.

To my premed friends: yes med school prestige and the type of program helps. I go to a mid tier school and my chances of matching Harvard neurosurg are pretty much slim to none. But we had 2 neurosurg matches last year and a handful of other ROAD specialities. Only 40% of MD applicants get in every year and it feels like that percentage gets lower each year. You can be a perfect fit stats wise for a higher tier school, but with thousands of applicants, sometimes a bit of luck is involved too. You’re not entitled to an acceptance at a T30 school so take whatever is given to you and run with that.

That was after the match not before

 

[Goro]

That was after the match not before

Based upon your post history, we can definitely rule out school name/prestige as a reason as to why you matched so low on your list.

 

[karaya]

That was after the match not before

I don't think we're talking about an event as much as underlying character traits. And boy, do you have 'em. Even after everything that happened, you're still badmouthing your residency in public?

 

[grilledcheese]

I tried to figure out why this happened. I literally did everything right but some how didn't stick the landing, and ended up at a very mediocre spot. I've come to the conclusion at this time that it was the fact that I didn't go to a well-known medical school.

Hey dude, not to be mean or anything but I can think of one more reason: you're not as uber-intellegent as you think you are, and I'm sure it showed in your interviews.

 

[Med Ed]

I've come to the conclusion at this time that it was the fact that I didn't go to a well-known medical school.

After your two instant classic threads in the med student forum, this one feels like The Godfather 3.

 

[eatfresh]

Hello,

I rarely post on the premed page, but I just wanted to add my perspective on this form for aspiring premedical students. I was a very competitive candidate in medical school. I did very well on my first set of interviews for residency - but ended up matching low when it was all said and done. I tried to figure out why this happened. I literally did everything right but some how didn't stick the landing, and ended up at a very mediocre spot. I've come to the conclusion at this time that it was the fact that I didn't go to a well-known medical school. I just wanted make sure to pay it forward and let you all know you should try and get into best named med school possible. I strongly discourage you for taking the DO route if you have other options (primary care aside). Still be a great physician, however have to recognize the role your school name plays in residency admissions. Don't be afraid to retake the MCAT if you're not content, don't be afraid to do GPA repair if you're not content with where you at. I hope people here find this advice valuable.

what was your step 1 and step 2ck score?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Yes it does matter a lot but it’s not just due to school name. Many lower tier schools have faculty that barely ever publish and are not well known in their field. This makes it extremely tough to be productive research wise and difficult to make connections with people who can vouch for you during match. For example, I know somebody who goes to Hopkins who apparently has like 10+ publications as an M3 because many PIs let her just edit/write part of the manuscript and get her name on it.

 

[Qpworueury]

what was your step 1 and step 2ck score?

Upper percentile on both

 

[lal4life]

Look through this guy’s post history. It’s pretty apparent it’s not about his school or his scores but lack of teachability and self introspection that has landed him in trouble.

The med school you go to and scores you get matter, but can’t overcome certain personality trait issues. I’d rather have a humble self-learner from the newest DO school at my program than the top student at the top med school if that student exhibited the lack of humility and ability to change/learn when poor behaviors are repeatedly pointed out.

 

[Qpworueury]

Look through this guy’s post history. It’s pretty apparent it’s not about his school or his scores but lack of teachability and self introspection that has landed him in trouble.

The med school you go to and scores you get matter, but can’t overcome certain personality trait issues. I’d rather have a humble self-learner from the newest DO school at my program than the top student at the top med school if that student exhibited the lack of humility and ability to change/learn when poor behaviors are repeatedly pointed out.

All that came after. My evals were great, scores were outstanding. Thought I was going to do very well in the match

 

[drthedude]

aren't you the guy that literally said "I was hacked" to sending an inappropriate email LMAO

 

[LizzyM]

Was your match better than that of all your classmates? If not, do you really think that it was the school name that did you in?

 

[Qpworueury]

Was your match better than that of all your classmates? If not, do you really think that it was the school name that did you in?

The places I was interviewing at for sure were. I got high interview numbers but fumbled on the match. Did excellent prelim wise. However our school generally puts out unimpressive match lists.

 

[LizzyM]

The places I was interviewing at for sure were. I got high interview numbers but fumbled on the match. Did excellent prelim wise. However our school generally puts out unimpressive match lists.

Unless you had the best match of any member of your graduating class, I would not point the finger at the school but look within yourself. There may be reasons unrelated to the school you attended that resulted in the match outcome you experienced.

 

[Goro]

Unless you had the best match of any member of your graduating class, I would not point the finger at the school but look within yourself.

We've been trying to tell him that, ad nauseum.

There may be reasons unrelated to the school you attended that resulted in the match outcome you experienced.

See above.

 

[pierty]

SIncere question - have you ever considered therapy? You've been ruminating over this for a year now. I also don't think anyone here adding input to the situation is helping - even if some prior and current advice is great and well-intentioned, the additional attention and focus is likely enabling this behavior further.

I think you will have to do some work in your personal life and off-line to get over this chip on your shoulder - the answer isn't here. There is so much in how you speak about your life, your decisions, and your interpretations of situations that leaves a lot room for growth. I hope you can bridge that gap with time.

 

[Rside]

I believe this is called believing in an external locus of control.

 

[RangerBob]

After your two instant classic threads in the med student forum, this one feels like The Godfather 3.

Agree! But this is actually part 4 now, isn't it? The first two threads were truly entertaining (and appeared to be possibly genuine).

The 3rd just didn't live up to the hype and creativity of the first two, and made it more and more apparent the OP is either a troll or the worst case of selective hearing and lack of introspection I've ever seen.

This thread looks like he/she's acknowledged that like some Marvel series they've run their franchise as far as they can go but are now looking to reboot with a younger audience in hopes of restarting with a blank slate.

 

[Qpworueury]

Agree! But this is actually part 4 now, isn't it? The first two threads were truly entertaining (and appeared to be possibly genuine).

The 3rd just didn't live up to the hype and creativity of the first two, and made it more and more apparent the OP is either a troll or the worst case of selective hearing and lack of introspection I've ever seen.

This thread looks like he/she's acknowledged that like some Marvel series they've run their franchise as far as they can go but are now looking to reboot with a younger audience in hopes of restarting with a blank slate.

The purpose of this thread has nothing to do with that. I simply wanted provide my perspective to premeds how school name factors into the match

 

[Angus Avagadro]

The purpose of this thread has nothing to do with that. I simply wanted provide my perspective to premeds how school name factors into the match

School name really doesn'tmatter that much.. Of course coming from UPenn might get you an interview, but you still have to seal the deal. A 99% tile Step 2 from U Toledo still counts the same as if you come from Hopkins. I used to sit on our uni resident selection committee. I'd far rather take one of our own med students who rotated on our service and demonstrated a work ethic along with being teachable, than an unknown from an Ivory Tower med school. We had 2 duds, one from UCSF and the other from JHU that cause me to be triggered today even thinking about them. If you are not matching at an upper level program, it ain't the med school that's the problem.

 

[lacrossegirl420]

Won’t speak to this particular situation, but yes in general med school name does matter. It’s naive to pretend that it doesn’t or that the opportunities from more reputable schools aren’t different. Even within the “brand name schools”, there are more opportunities the higher you go. That being said, one can accomplish most of what they want from any school (they just might have to put in more effort/be more proactive)

 

[Mr.Smile12]

The purpose of this thread has nothing to do with that. I simply wanted provide my perspective to premeds how school name factors into the match

I acknowledge that perception, but I don't think you are a PD. Have you served on selection of residents for your program? How much does this come up in your deliberations or feedback to the faculty making the final decisions? I'm of the impression this information is generally blinded or inconsequential post-interview.

I acknowledge that the rewards of being in a highly selective program in higher education generally remain with "the club." Nobel and Lasker laureates generally come from a lineage of higher-education programs and elite secondary schools. So much comes from the luck of your birthplace zip code and parental income getting you access to education and opportunity.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

School name really doesn'tmatter that much.. Of course coming from UPenn might get you an interview, but you still have to seal the deal. A 99% tile Step 2 from U Toledo still counts the same as if you come from Hopkins. I used to sit on our uni resident selection committee. I'd far rather take one of our own med students who rotated on our service and demonstrated a work ethic along with being teachable, than an unknown from an Ivory Tower med school. We had 2 duds, one from UCSF and the other from JHU that cause me to be triggered today even thinking about them. If you are not matching at an upper level program, it ain't the med school that's the problem.

It definitely matters a lot. If you look at Harvard’s most recent match list, the “lowest” internal medicine match is university of Maryland. This was also probably just due to some applicant preference. From a low tier MD school or DO school that would be a pretty difficult match and places like MGH/JHU/UCSF are pretty much non starters

 

[eatfresh]

It definitely matters a lot. If you look at Harvard’s most recent match list, the “lowest” internal medicine match is university of Maryland. This was also probably just due to some applicant preference. From a low tier MD school or DO school that would be a pretty difficult match and places like MGH/JHU/UCSF are pretty much non starters

i think this is obvious to anyone applying from a lower tier school. i hope the OP wasn't entitled expecting their 240 step 1 score to get them into residencies like MGH

 

[Qpworueury]

i think this is obvious to anyone applying from a lower tier school. i hope the OP wasn't entitled expecting their 240 step 1 score to get them into residencies like MGH

I never said that. I do think however interviewing at several high tier residency programs and then falling below all of those is problematic

 

[GoSpursGo]

I never said that. I do think however interviewing at several high tier residency programs and then falling below all of those is problematic

When I was applying to residency from my T30 school, an applicant famously received 20+ interviews including from high tier programs in a competitive specialty, then failed to match. Anyone who met this person knew it had to do with their personality and clearly not the quality of our school.

Not to invalidate the point that med school prestige matters, or that your school may have played a role in your match. But it's also overly reductive to blame your school solely for that outcome.

 

[Qpworueury]

When I was applying to residency from my T30 school, an applicant famously received 20+ interviews including from high tier programs in a competitive specialty, then failed to match. Anyone who met this person knew it had to do with their personality and clearly not the quality of our school.

Not to invalidate the point that med school prestige matters, or that your school may have played a role in your match. But it's also overly reductive to blame your school solely for that outcome.

I know that's the first thing people expect - but I really don't believe personality was an issue for me. In undergrad I even one a humanitarian award. I'm on the quieter side and have been told me I'm modest. Hence that's why I deduce school name played a row.

 

[Sidus1011]

I know that's the first thing people expect - but I really don't believe personality was an issue for me. I'm on the quieter side and have been told me I'm modest. Hence that's why I deduce school name played a row.

I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but badmouthing your residency publicly and repeatedly throwing a tantrum on a public forum is anything but quiet and modest. While I do agree school name plays a role, majority of people do not have the prestige chasing mindset. Many just want to match near home or want a good QOL.

 

[lal4life]

To all: med school name matters, but to a degree. What matters most is the individual. Had I done better on my MCAT, I would have gone to a better med school. Had I done better in med school, I could have gotten better interviews. I still went to a solid program and ended up where I wanted to. It worked out great! The limiting step wasn’t my school, but was me. Likewise, my friends that went to better schools might have had improved resources and better access to research, extracurriculars, etc to get them where they wanted.

What the OP is neglecting to recognize is in exactly what he said. Interviewing at several high places shows that statistics and extracurriculars met the criteria to get in at those high places. Usually once you interview at a location you’ve met the programs qualifications and the interview is more of a personality match. Interviewing at several high places then falling well below that means that stats and numbers aren’t the issue, but personality is. Which has been exhibited time and time again in OP’s posts.

Moral of the story is do a good job and be good. Be teachable. Analyze yourself before looking for outside reasons. I’ve gotten a long way in life by doing what I’m supposed to do and being nice to those I work with.

 

[Goro]

I know that's the first thing people expect - but I really don't believe personality was an issue for me. In undergrad I even one a humanitarian award. I'm on the quieter side and have been told me I'm modest. Hence that's why I deduce school name played a row.

10/10!

 

[Med Ed]

It definitely matters a lot. If you look at Harvard’s most recent match list, the “lowest” internal medicine match is university of Maryland. This was also probably just due to some applicant preference. From a low tier MD school or DO school that would be a pretty difficult match and places like MGH/JHU/UCSF are pretty much non starters

And when someone comes on here crying about how they turned down Harvard for Drexel, this will mean something.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

Holy **** was this a wild 15-minute ride of reading through past threads. I'm inclined to agree that you in some way f'd up the interviews to those top programs. If you are this delusional and clueless about how you're coming across on this forum, I wouldn't be surprised if you let this show in your interviews. Think of it this way, they interviewed you. You already passed the screen where they were okay with your med school, especially if you scored in the top 1% of both Step 1 and Step 2 (see below). Sure you may be in a slightly lower rung of the ladder than others going into the interview, but there are overwhelming evidence that suggests your character and personality traits are the problem not your school. As someone else mentioned, if you did not match as high as other people from your school with similar achievements, the problem is you.

Upper percentile on both

No one says upper percentile (which means 1%). I think you mean upper quartile. Someone who is a super-intelligent, super competitive applicant would know that. Maybe you were really a "run-of-the-mill" candidate. How geographically distant do programs have to be in order to justify transferring?

 

[GoSpursGo]

I know that's the first thing people expect - but I really don't believe personality was an issue for me. In undergrad I even one a humanitarian award. I'm on the quieter side and have been told me I'm modest. Hence that's why I deduce school name played a row.

No one is arguing that school name played a role. But if that was the end all be all you wouldn’t have gotten the interviews in the first place. In fact being quiet, in some situations and especially in certain fields, may have meant you didn’t have a great interview.

Regardless, there is no value at this point in ruing the quality of your school because you can’t change that. You do potentially have an opportunity to consider if there were other modifiable aspects that held you back from matching at a preferred spot and change that for the better going forward.

Frankly, the idea that you are a humble person is incongruent with all of your prior posts, so I am not holding my breath. Yet here I am still hoping you will gain some self introspection and learn from this experience.

 

[MCAThiccy]

If we keep this going, it’ll spill into another 7 page thread that goes nowhere. To OP, grow up, be humble, learn from your mistakes, blame others less for your own undoings, and get to practicing medicine. Highly recommend just locking this thread up for real.

 

[Medologist342]

If we keep this going, it’ll spill into another 7 page thread that goes nowhere. To OP, grow up, be humble, learn from your mistakes, blame others less for your own undoings, and get to practicing medicine. Highly recommend just locking this thread up for real.

Agreed with the first sentence. To the rest of the future applicants reading this thread, TLDR is just know the school you go to will likely not close any doors outside of a few scenarios like a DO/low tier MD applying plastics/derm. What your school prestige will affect is the amount of effort you’ll need to put in to get the specialties you want, but if you want it bad enough, you’ll do what’s necessary.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Agreed with the first sentence. To the rest of the future applicants reading this thread, TLDR is just know the school you go to will likely not close any doors outside of a few scenarios like a DO applying plastics. What your school prestige will affect is the amount of effort you’ll need to put in to get the specialties you want, but if you want it bad enough, you’ll do what’s necessary.

But low tier MD schools definitely do shut certain doors. My school barely matches anybody to derm, plastics, uro, optho because the research infrastructure just isn’t there to support the number of pubs students need to match these specialties

 

[Medologist342]

But low tier MD schools definitely do shut certain doors. My school barely matches anybody to derm, plastics, uro, optho because the research infrastructure just isn’t there to support the number of pubs students need to match these specialties

Yes this is also true. Frankly I just tried to keep the TLDR short but yes low tier MD as well as any DO may shut doors to research heavy specialties. One thing I forgot to mention is that DO will also shut the door in most cases to getting into non clinical fields like consulting at the desirable firms, so make of that what you will.

 

[Med Ed]

But low tier MD schools definitely do shut certain doors. My school barely matches anybody to derm, plastics, uro, optho because the research infrastructure just isn’t there to support the number of pubs students need to match these specialties

Well, we all make choices. And then we live with them.

 

[ohiosveryown]

But low tier MD schools definitely do shut certain doors. My school barely matches anybody to derm, plastics, uro, optho because the research infrastructure just isn’t there to support the number of pubs students need to match these specialties

So how exactly does your school "shut doors" if it still matches to those programs? Since someone mentioned UToledo earlier, take a look at their match list the past few years. They had a Yale Plastics last year! And plenty of surgical subs year in and year out. Not disagreeing that it is more difficult, but to say certain doors are shut is overly dramatic in my opinion.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

So how exactly does your school "shut doors" if it still matches to those programs? Since someone mentioned UToledo earlier, take a look at their match list the past few years. They had a Yale Plastics last year! And plenty of surgical subs year in and year out. Not disagreeing that it is more difficult, but to say certain doors are shut is overly dramatic in my opinion.

There are schools lower than Utoldedo. At least they have a university hospital. Also you can never rule out family connections for example. To give an example, somebody at a very new school matched ortho at a mayo/iowa/Minnesota/Wisconsin type place from a low tier new school. Turns out his/her mom is an orthopedic surgery PD at one of the top programs in the country

 

[ohiosveryown]

There are schools lower than Utoldedo. At least they have a university hospital. Also you can never rule out family connections for example. To give an example, somebody at a very new school matched ortho at a mayo/iowa/Minnesota/Wisconsin type place from a low tier new school. Turns out his/her mom is an orthopedic surgery PD at one of the top programs in the country

Good points, not disagreeing with any of them. Will add in UToledo does not have a home derm, plastics, or ophtho program though. I mean, even DO had 9 neurosurgery matches last year. My point is: I still think to say the door is shut is not true, it is cracked and someone who wants it bad enough can open it.

 

[Sunshine2024]

I have read through the OPs threads with intrigue.

Some have speculated the OP is a narcissist. I'd like to suggest that the OP may have a social communication disorder (ie autism spectrum). This would explain the OPs atypical responses, lack of self-awareness, and willingness for their programs to lend additional support. The OP has already stated that details of their situation have been changed in an effort to maintain anonymity, and we should not attack nor judge since we don't know the full story. Despite our attacks, the OPs responses remain measured, without counter-attacking. I cannot say the same for the SDN responders collectively.

The OP is working with their PDs to remedy their situation, and will hopefully come to a resolution on their own timeline. They are using SDN as both a sounding board and a space to gather differing opinions.

There has been a lot of helpful advice shared with the OP. We could all demonstrate empathy and grace to make SDN a safe space for all users, including those with whom we disagree.

 

[cj_cregg]

The places I was interviewing at for sure were. I got high interview numbers but fumbled on the match. Did excellent prelim wise. However our school generally puts out unimpressive match lists.

If school name was the issue why would the residency programs have bothered interviewing you in the first place? This to me suggests your interview performance was an issue.