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exPCM

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Posted here for educational purposes:

Please visit the AACOM website for further details here:
http://www.aacom.org/about/fastfacts/Documents/Summaries/2009MatriculantSummary.pdf
They have posted extensive data on GPAs, MCAT scores, demographics, etc. This is the most current and up to date data and may be useful to potential applicants.
I think this is a good way to see the real stats rather than relying on anecdotal information.
 
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scaredoflife

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Wow that is crazy the MCAT average was about 25 a few years ago if I don't recall. The scores will increase and then just steady out because the median will be so high that it will be hard for everything to ultimately achieve the score.

Should be at 28 or 30 in about 4-6 years maybe?
 

CaptainSSO

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What the ****? Would these people even be able to check a pulse?
 

elftown

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Interesting. Thanks, exPCM.

If you look at the PDF file, women have a better GPA and men have a better MCAT.
 

exPCM

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I predicted 26.2 in a previous post in early January and was lambasted.
I think I will now say I got it pretty close.

Here was my previous prediction which I have cut and pasted with the link to the original post at the bottom:
Why, because it says 26.12 in 2008? Assuming the same trend from 07-08 (which I shouldn't because everything seems to be expanding in a non-linear fashion and the numeric difference between the 07 -> 08 data was greater than that of the 06 -> 07 data), then 09 MCAT would be a 26.7 (aka, 27), and the 10 data (those getting geared up to apply right now), would be well into 27+, pushing into 28 category. Plus, the GPA will be well over a 3.5. Also, this is being quite conservative.
You never give up. By the way you also need to get a non-smoking avatar if you want to be a physician.

From 24.98 in 2000 to 26.12 in 2008 is an average increase of 0.13 per year. Since 2008 there have been multiple new schools and enrollment expansions which will apply braking pressure on the numbers. My bet for 2009 is 26.2 and for 2010 26.3.
Why don't you place your bet here right now and in a few months we can see who was a better trend analyst?
You're a pathologist, right??? I hope I'm not getting any medical exams done by you for a LONG time. Hahahaha ... kidding.
I hope not either. You are much too young to die and I think Congress is also passing a new law that death will not be a valid excuse for not repaying student loans.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9069003&postcount=85
 

JaggerPlate

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Buahhh I don't even know where you're grabbing these quotes from me from.Or remember what we were even talking about.


I predicted 26.2 in a previous post in early January and was lambasted.
I think I will now say I got it pretty close.

Here was my previous prediction which I have cut and pasted with the link to the original post at the bottom:

You never give up. By the way you also need to get a non-smoking avatar if you want to be a physician.

From 24.98 in 2000 to 26.12 in 2008 is an average increase of 0.13 per year. Since 2008 there have been multiple new schools and enrollment expansions which will apply braking pressure on the numbers. My bet for 2009 is 26.2 and for 2010 26.3.
Why don't you place your bet here right now and in a few months we can see who was a better trend analyst?

I hope not either. You are much too young to die and I think Congress is also passing a new law that death will not be a valid excuse for not repaying student loans.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9069003&postcount=85
 

exPCM

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Buahhh I don't even know where you're grabbing these quotes from me from.Or remember what we were even talking about.
I have posted the link above to my post which links back to the thread if you want to go back and reread it.
Here is a link to the entire thread if you don't remember:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=690233
Anyhow the AACOM website data has the data broken down in greater detail and I recommend going to the site which I have linked to above if interested.
 

JaggerPlate

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I have posted the link above to my post which links back to the thread if you want to go back and reread it.
Here is a link to the entire thread if you don't remember:

Anyhow the AACOM website data has the data broken down in greater detail and I recommend going to the site which I have linked to above if interested.
Ah, gotcha. Yeah I looked at it a little. I've also deeply expressed my opinion regarding the overall 'DO average.' Don't want to re-read the thread.
 

Everglide

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Well that's interesting data. Is there any way to see distribution of total scores, similar to the writing scores table?
 

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"So why are you applying to our school with your 3.63/36T?"

"Well, I didn't have enough clinical experience, so the MD schools kicked me out T_T"
 

thegame11

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Wow that is crazy the MCAT average was about 25 a few years ago if I don't recall. The scores will increase and then just steady out because the median will be so high that it will be hard for everything to ultimately achieve the score.

Should be at 28 or 30 in about 4-6 years maybe?
Maybe it will decrease as more new schools open and existing schools increase their enrollment.
 

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Good find exPCM, I have been looking for up-to-date stats, since the CIB is always 3 years behind.

Speaking of the CIB, why don't they just put the stats you posted information in the CIB? If I hadn't been bored today and browsing this site, I would have missed your post....and many applicants don't even know what SDN is.
 

Harry Bahgina

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Good find exPCM, I have been looking for up-to-date stats, since the CIB is always 3 years behind.

Speaking of the CIB, why don't they just put the stats you posted information in the CIB? If I hadn't been bored today and browsing this site, I would have missed your post....and many applicants don't even know what SDN is.
I don't think he was trying to be helpful. I think he was just taking a jab at Jager about MCAT stats and a prior disagreement they had between each other.
 

exPCM

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Good find exPCM, I have been looking for up-to-date stats, since the CIB is always 3 years behind.

Speaking of the CIB, why don't they just put the stats you posted information in the CIB? If I hadn't been bored today and browsing this site, I would have missed your post....and many applicants don't even know what SDN is.
Thanks Dr. Dre. I think it is important to get students looking at real data rather than relying on often inaccurate anecdotal unformation.
There is a lot of other data that AACOM and the NBOME do not release which would be helpful but apparently they do not want transparency.
I would like to see recent individual school by school COMLEX pass rates/average scores, residency match rates, individual school matriculant data rather than just aggregate data.

I don't think he was trying to be helpful. I think he was just taking a jab at Jager about MCAT stats and a prior disagreement they had between each other.
OK- I'll bite
If you actually go back and read the prior thread I am only pointing out that my 26.2 MCAT call for 2009 was much closer than his 26.7 call and his call for 'pushing 28" for 2010 is total fantasyland IMO.
I wish him well in his career as a physician but it is valuable for a physician to learn to recognize what they know well and to get a consult when they are out of their area of expertise.
 
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OK- I'll bite
If you actually go back and read the prior thread I am only pointing out that my 26.2 MCAT call for 2009 was much closer than his 26.7 call and his call for 'pushing 28" for 2010 is total fantasyland IMO.
I wish him well in his career as a physician but it is valuable for a physician to learn to recognize what they know well and to get a consult when they are out of their area of expertise.
Im pretty sure thats right behind 'learning to let go of petty things' on the list of skills you need to learn
 
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exPCM

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Im pretty sure thats right behind 'learning to let go of petty things' on the list of skills you need to learn
Look - I long ago jumped through these hoops. I think it is a shame that we have so-called "experts" here advising students to spend lots of money retaking courses and retaking the MCAT when it is unnecessary in many cases.

Many of these students will be graduating with big time loan debt and I hate to see them wasting money today that they may need tomorrow.

The pettiness involves people who basically try to act like gurus before they have even set foot in medical school. I will be the first to admit when I am wrong on an issue but I am not wrong about the plethora of inflated anecdotal numbers and faulty advice being given here.
 
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mechanictodr

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Glad to see the number steadily rising even with all of the new schools in the past 8 years.
 

MLT2MT2DO

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Look - I long ago jumped through these hoops. I think it is a shame that we have so-called "experts" here advising students to spend lots of money retaking courses and retaking the MCAT when it is unnecessary in many cases.

Many of these students will be graduating with big time loan debt and I hate to see them wasting money today that they may need tomorrow.

The pettiness involves people who basically try to act like gurus before they have even set foot in medical school. I will be the first to admit when I am wrong on an issue but I am not wrong about the plethora of inflated anecdotal numbers and faulty advice being given here.

Yet if somebody is on the lower side of the statistics, you tell them "you'll be just fine"


Apply with what you have and you should be fine. Even a 23 MCAT is within one standard deviation of the mean for entering students and a science GPA of 2.95 is within one standard deviation of the mean for entering students. Basically I think it is not necessary to worry much about GPA unless your science GPA is under 2.9 or overall GPA is under 3.0 and to not worry about the MCAT unless it is under 23.
If someone asks, "how do I boost my application" when they waltz into the forums with a 3.02 cGPA, a 2.98 sGPA and a 24 MCAT the advice to now give is "nothing, you're stats are uber competitative for D.O. schools and you will have no trouble whatsoever getting into a school".

Ex, when looking over your post history I think you'd probably be better suited in a career as a "shock jock". Your thread started history is depressing, you need to find your happy place
 

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I find it funny that many of his posts are in the osteopathic forums giving advice when he is an allopathic physician. It's great you give numbers compared to speculation though.
 

exPCM

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Yet if somebody is on the lower side of the statistics, you tell them "you'll be just fine"




If someone asks, "how do I boost my application" when they waltz into the forums with a 3.02 cGPA, a 2.98 sGPA and a 24 MCAT the advice to now give is "nothing, you're stats are uber competitative for D.O. schools and you will have no trouble whatsoever getting into a school".

Ex, when looking over your post history I think you'd probably be better suited in a career as a "shock jock". Your thread started history is depressing, you need to find your happy place
here's more real data: 24 MCAT is competitive, not great but definitely competitive




 

JaggerPlate

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I just realized that TCOM, with a matriculation average of 28 via their own data, wasn't included in that average. Probably wouldn't make much of a difference, but interesting (maybe 26.2 to 26.3ish).
 
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JaggerPlate

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here's more real data: 24 MCAT is competitive, not great but definitely competitive




1. PSCOM is a rural, small, underserved, regionally focused med school ... no shocker with lower MCAT.

2. Ohio is a state funded DO school. These averages are always lower, even at state MD schools. Furthermore, there is a five year contract promising you'll practice for 5 years in Ohio (which can be opted out of for 50k) for OOS students. Another non-shocker.

3. Nova's average is listed as above a 26???

4. ATSU utilizes a new, unique curriculum with rotations. It's not something for everyone, and probably shouldn't be compared to your run of the mill DO school.

Cherry picking. You could have just as easily picked TCOM, Western, and UMDNJ and said 28-29 is borderline competitive, when - for the average ... which I've stated my issues with - this isn't the case.
 

exPCM

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1. PSCOM is a rural, small, underserved, regionally focused med school ... no shocker with lower MCAT.

2. Ohio is a state funded DO school. These averages are always lower, even at state MD schools. Furthermore, there is a five year contract promising you'll practice for 5 years in Ohio (which can be opted out of for 50k) for OOS students. Another non-shocker.

3. Nova's average is listed as above a 26???

4. ATSU utilizes a new, unique curriculum with rotations. It's not something for everyone, and probably shouldn't be compared to your run of the mill DO school.

Cherry picking. You could have just as easily picked TCOM, Western, and UMDNJ and said 28-29 is borderline competitive, when - for the average ... which I've stated my issues with - this isn't the case.


I just realized that TCOM, with a matriculation average of 28 via their own data, wasn't included in that average. Probably wouldn't make much of a difference, but interesting (maybe 26.2 to 26.3ish).
How about we grind through the data.

OK:
TCOM 186 students entering in 2009 with self reported MCAT mean of 28:
http://www.hsc.unt.edu/education/tcom/enteringclassstats.cfm
4771 non-TCOM matriculants with MCAT mean of 26.19.

So
186 x 28 = 5208
4771 x 26.19 = 124952.49
Total = 130160.49
Mean =l 130160.49/(186 +4771) =26.257.

I still say my earlier pick of 26.2 is a lot closer than your pick of 26.7. So you still won't admit that the "3.5/28" you post all over this site is garbage. You are the one who is doing the cherry picking.
The OVERALL average is still not 28 and I will bet it will never get there as more schools open up and existing enrollments ramp up. I stand by my prediction of a 26.3 mean for the 2010 class.
Even TCOMs average is almost sure to stagnate or possibly even drop as they are planning to grab more tuition dollars and ramp up their class size to 230 students (reference: http://www.hsc.unt.edu/Sites/StudyGroup/Documents/2009.09.25 Message from Dr. Scott Ransom.pdf ) at the same time that a new allopathic school has opened in El Paso and there are many other osteopathic and allopathic schools bumping up their enrollments:
http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/pressrel/2009/enrollmentdata2009.pdf
http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/Documents/college_growth_report_2008.pdf

You say that state funded schools always have lower scores and then write about TCOM (a state funded school) having a mean of 28. Is it possible for you to frame a coherent argument?
http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/cib/Documents/cib2010/2010-unthsc-tcom.pdf
From what I have seen most of the posters seem to ask about their prospects for getting accepted to any osteopathic medical school rather than specifically asking about their "chances" at just UMDNJ or TCOM for instance.
 
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