Real Doctor?

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Pharos

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I'm new to SDN - can someone tell me, is it true that D.O.s are real doctors?


....Ha - just kidding. Now that I have your attention (and some of you are about ready to squeeze your mouse like a stress ball to the point of rupture) I just wanted to make my first post. Not trying to draw negative attention... just being a fool (please bare with me). I've actually been following SDN for about 6 mos now, but haven't posted anything yet. Sorry, but after reading all of the trolling, flaming, etc, etc, over the last 6 months, I simply couldn't help myself. (Have kind of a sick sense of humor).

Anyway, I am a non-trad (32yrs old) pre-med who is currently working as a chemist at a pharmaceutical company. I have been following the osteo and allo forums, as I will be applying to both DO/MD schools based on geographic location. However, I am taking a special interest in the osteo forums, as I think that out of the half dozen or so schools that I will be applying to - that my best shot will be with the one osteo school of the group. I really don't have a strong preference DO vs MD. I do have to say though, after learning much about the osteopathic profession/history over the past year, that I am absolutely stunned at the number of people in the general population who do not know what a DO is. Or shall I say, I can't believe who how many people don't realize that there are two different degrees earned by U.S. physicians (I guess really three if you want to count podiatrists - hope I'm not missing any other groups). I don't view either philosophy (DO/MD) as better or lesser, but I have to say that I am disheartened by this lack of awareness. In fact, I myself had a DO as my FP for several years about 5 yrs ago - but never even realized it myself until I began seeking information about medical education. When I think back, he even used the "name, followed by initials" format on his name tag, so the DO heritage was obvious. Strange.... I think that maybe it simply just doesn't register with some people that the initials are different than the traditional MD initials, or maybe some even some think it has to do with their specialty instead (there are so many acronyms and abbreviations used in medicine, its almost impossible to keep them all straight). I have to say it doesn't appear that the AOA does much to help this out. (I wonder why?) Well, maybe the public awareness will eventually take care of itself, as the numbers are on the rise and will eventually reach the practicing physician ranks and attain greater public exposure (out of the 2004 med school graduates, just under 15% were from DO schools - so there is a definite upward trend forming).

The knock about the trolling and flaming aside... I wanted to thank all of you on SDM (or at least those who have made it this far reading through my mostly meaningless post) that I have learned much about medical education (and the career thereafter) here on SDN. It's very nice that people take the time to organize and moderate a collective tool such as this (kudos to the moderators, et al). I'm looking forward to being an active participant in the future.
 
Hey Pharos... trying to start a war? :meanie:

Yes my mouse is now a little smaller... but that is ok...

I think the differences between the allo and Osteo are important enough to award special recognition. We all follow the medical model and treat patients; however, in my bias opinion, Osteopathic Physicians have a few extra tricks up our sleeves.

Feel free to post again... and good luck on your applications.

-Ben
TUCOM-NV OMS(-1/2)
 
My personal beliefs are more in line with osteopathy. The difficulty of getting in some highly competitive specialties does concern me somewhat. I don't want to close any doors.

The ability to help people feel better and get well through manipulation is an incredibly serious tool. Just ask a MD to help you with that back pain. Their only option is a Rx, which just masks the problem.
 
fruit fly said:
Some of my friends do not believe that DOs are real doctors. They ask me, "Why don't you try to be a real doctor?".

Too bad some people are ignorant. I guess we'll just have to take our real paycheck and go to the real lakehouse in our real Ferrari Modena 360.
 
I don't understand some people either.

Luckely most people I told about US trained DOs responded positively. And asked why not all physicians can be this way.

I know in the back of some of their heads, there is always that "DO is not a real doctor"...

But... I try to be clear about the qualifications and ACGME residency available to DOs and the use of surgery and medication. Also the fact that they earn the same amount. Also I use back pain, heart disease, other diseases as an example where allo branch doesn't have a sure remedy.

The best example, as someone else already noted on SDN... it is similar to MD or MBBS (UK) or MDMS or Dr.Med (germany) or any other medical degree. And no it is not like DPM or DC or DDM or OD.
 
OrthoFixation said:
My personal beliefs are more in line with osteopathy. The difficulty of getting in some highly competitive specialties does concern me somewhat. I don't want to close any doors.

The ability to help people feel better and get well through manipulation is an incredibly serious tool. Just ask a MD to help you with that back pain. Their only option is a Rx, which just masks the problem.

OrthoFixation said:
My personal beliefs are more in line with osteopathy. The difficulty of getting in some highly competitive specialties does concern me somewhat. I don't want to close any doors.

The ability to help people feel better and get well through manipulation is an incredibly serious tool. Just ask a MD to help you with that back pain. Their only option is a Rx, which just masks the problem.

I think I'd fit in nicely as well with the heightened sense of community service, etc that it seems most osteo schools strive for. I'm not sure what to think of the manipulation yet.... time may tell. I am eager to learn more, as I myself am not a huge pharmaceutical fan (ironic seeing that I work for a pharm company, isn't it). Medicines definitely, definitely have thier place and are the only real option in many cases - but it would be nice to have other modalities to help reduce and/or eliminate the need for pharms in some cases. (Let's face it, every medicinal product you take is somewhat hard on the body through the course of metabolism, elimination, etc). I guess you really need to weight the benefits vs the costs and make a decision from there.

I've toured the campus and sat in on a few classes at UNECOM this past spring. In fact, one of the classes was an OMM class/lab. In the lab, the students were performing gait analysis and such. The principles behind it made very much practical sense to me (it seems like to just don't realize it until it is pointed out). There was no actual manip going on that day... if I do end up at a DO school I am going to be interested to learn more about it. Some of the more controversial methods (cranial et.al.) tend to scare me a bit right now, but I will wait to draw conclusions until I have the opportunity to learn more. The one nice thing about it is that, yes you will need to learn each method to get through the educational process, but later once in practice you can deside what methods you feel comfortable with and which ones you don't.

My only real concern going DO is that I would like to get into a allo residency close-by to where I currently live (location is the only reason here... if an osteo residency was closer - I'd see no reason why it wouldn't be an option if it was a decent program). Oh well, I don't think I should worry too much about it though, it seems that if I do well academically, etc, that my chances will be good. That, and with all of the possible combined match talk going on right now, it may be different by the time I get there (there's obviously a few years to go yet).
 
OrthoFixation said:
My personal beliefs are more in line with osteopathy. The difficulty of getting in some highly competitive specialties does concern me somewhat. I don't want to close any doors.

The ability to help people feel better and get well through manipulation is an incredibly serious tool. Just ask a MD to help you with that back pain. Their only option is a Rx, which just masks the problem.

QUOTE=Shinken]OMM shouldn't be performed at all on anybody. Nobody knows why OMM works, it just seems to work and that's just not acceptable scientific evidence. Besides, OMM has been linked to birth defects and risks of heart attack.

Oh, wait...never mind. I was confusing OMM with drugs. Oops.[/QUOTE]

Hee, Hee...

I think that the whole lack of scientific evidence argument is a bit off-base. Yes, methodology like OMM can be hard to test scientifically, but it can be done. And let's face it, if it works (for whatever reason), it works, right? It doesn't mean it's the gosphel... it's just another tool to use. (Don't mean to offend anyone here who is really hooked on it... it doesn't hurt to really believe in somehing). Besides, do you think there was any real "scientific evidence" when people learned that chewing on the bark from a willow tree helped to alleviate pain (i.e. the discovery aspirin). No, I'm sure they didn't... but they kept on using it... why? - because it worked.

Life is too short and there are far to many other important things to argue about - I don't see why there have been some many heated arguments here about it. It's another tool. If you like - use it, if you don't... then don't.

Well, I have to go for awhile… I have work to do. I could have never imagined how “addicting” being part of a forum could be. It was very different following the forum as an outsider – becoming part of the action makes it hard to pull yourself away.
 
OrthoFixation said:
Too bad some people are ignorant. I guess we'll just have to take our real paycheck and go to the real lakehouse in our real Ferrari Modena 360.
Are you going to be doing Plastics in Miami or what?? the money is great, but you better take some other route if you want that Ferrari. A used ferrari from the 90's............maybe.
 
HoodyHoo said:
Are you going to be doing Plastics in Miami or what?? the money is great, but you better take some other route if you want that Ferrari. A used ferrari from the 90's............maybe.

First of all . . . who are you to tell me what I can achieve. 😡 😕 +pissed+

I know of many doc's making $300K-$750K/yr and a few makin large 7 figures. Good god man, I know an optometrist who makes over $500K.

That is not why I'm in the game, but just remember "your altitude is only restricted by your attitude."

Now that we understand each other, check out this fine ride, 2000 Modena right here in the great state of Texas for a measley $125K. You can buy a sweet used Viper for $40K. Or you could succomb to the American mediocrity path and buy a new car for $50K, pay for it over 6 years, and be upside down for 4.5 years.

Not only can I see myself in one, I will pay CASH 👍 Maybe a new Z06 Vette in 2010, or a Porshe GT3. Maybe you could tell I like racing cars 😱
 
OrthoFixation said:
First of all . . . who are you to tell me what I can achieve. 😡 😕 +pissed+

I know of many doc's making $300K-$750K/yr and a few makin large 7 figures. Good god man, I know an optometrist who makes over $500K.

That is not why I'm in the game, but just remember "your altitude is only restricted by your attitude."

Now that we understand each other, check out this fine ride, 2000 Modena right here in the great state of Texas for a measley $125K. You can buy a sweet used Viper for $40K. Or you could succomb to the American mediocrity path and buy a new car for $50K, pay for it over 6 years, and be upside down for 4.5 years.

Not only can I see myself in one, I will pay CASH 👍 Maybe a new Z06 Vette in 2010, or a Porshe GT3. Maybe you could tell I like racing cars 😱

Hey OrthoFixation, you can make enough to buy a 360 and a second car for the weekdays if you work hard and put some business into it. Why buy used though?
 
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OnMyWayThere said:
Hey OrthoFixation, you can make enough to buy a 360 and a second car for the weekdays if you work hard and put some business into it. Why buy used though?


I'm frugal and I like a bargain, even in high priced toys 👍
 
dude go for the porche. ferrari = italien trash to quote from kill bill. Not to pull the "i-know-a-person thing" but ferraris are notorious for breaking down. now maybe they have improved on the modena (hopefully more so for the enzo)

Also have you checked the price per quart for oil on a ferrari? there are lots of hidden costs, which although if one can afford to pay for it, still makes you wonder why?

better yet just buy a ducati 900 series, more power, more acceleration less gas and CO2 emissions (well and life expectancy too)

anyways back do DO vs MD stuff....
 
I used to drive a 996 / 911 and it wasn't cheap to fix. The clutch cost me $2k so Porsches arent cheap to fix/maintain either. If I could go back, I'd choose Ferrari over Porsche and will in the future (hopefully I will be given the opportunity again).
 
ferraro f430 modena....now thats sweeeeeeeeeeet. maybe i can pick up a used one in about 10 years. LOL.
 
Nothing about being a DO bothers me (as compared to MD), but I am prepared to have to explain it 10 million times to everyone I know, what it is. I can just hear the questions now . . .

"So you're not a real doctor?"

"Where are you allowed to practice?"

"Is that a nurse?"

I'm already calming myself so when I hear all this (and more) I don't lose it. I wouldn't want everyone thinking that DO's are short tempered and angry all the time! :laugh:
 
Khenon said:
Nothing about being a DO bothers me (as compared to MD), but I am prepared to have to explain it 10 million times to everyone I know, what it is. I can just hear the questions now . . .

"So you're not a real doctor?"

"Where are you allowed to practice?"

"Is that a nurse?"

I'm already calming myself so when I hear all this (and more) I don't lose it. I wouldn't want everyone thinking that DO's are short tempered and angry all the time! :laugh:
Don't forget after explaining, getting the "So it's basically a chiropractor" 😱 and saying to yourself DID THIS PERSON NOT HEAR ANYTHING I JUST SAID???? 😕
 
When a patient will ask me what a DO is, I'll look around to make sure nobody is within earshot, bend down and whisper in the patient's ear: "Don't tell anyone, but we're not real doctors." Then flash a thumbs up sign, wink and walk away whistling while flipping through the patient's chart and writing things down in it.
 
Shinken said:
When a patient will ask me what a DO is, I'll look around to make sure nobody is within earshot, bend down and whisper in the patient's ear: "Don't tell anyone, but we're not real doctors." Then flash a thumbs up sign, wink and walk away whistling while flipping through the patient's chart and writing things down in it.
that is awesome! hahaha...
 
Pharos said:
I've actually been following SDN for about 6 mos now, but haven't posted anything yet.


I admire your self-restraint. When I found this website it was like a 5 year old stumbling upon a big pile of candy. 🙄
 
I had to share this story with you guys...I know you will all appreciate it! During my finals week I ran into a girl I work with in the library and we started talking about applying to medical school, since she is also pre-med. She hasn't started applying (due to her low gpa) and she was asking how my app process was going. I told her that I was applying to a lot of DO schools instead of MD and she said: "DO, is that Doctor of Obstetrician ( and yes that is exactly how she said it). I responded with "No, but they can specialize in obstetrics." And she responds with "Oh, so is DO for old people then?"

I had to share with you folks, since I definitely got a kick out of it!

Here's to the effort of re-educating the public on the usefulness of DO in the treatment of "old people" :laugh:
 
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OrthoFixation said:
First of all . . . who are you to tell me what I can achieve. 😡 😕 +pissed+

I know of many doc's making $300K-$750K/yr and a few makin large 7 figures. Good god man, I know an optometrist who makes over $500K.

That is not why I'm in the game, but just remember "your altitude is only restricted by your attitude."

Now that we understand each other, check out this fine ride, 2000 Modena right here in the great state of Texas for a measley $125K. You can buy a sweet used Viper for $40K. Or you could succomb to the American mediocrity path and buy a new car for $50K, pay for it over 6 years, and be upside down for 4.5 years.

Not only can I see myself in one, I will pay CASH 👍 Maybe a new Z06 Vette in 2010, or a Porshe GT3. Maybe you could tell I like racing cars 😱


first of all, I believe (correct me if i'm wrong) you've not set one foot into medical school yet so don't get an attitude with me, i wasn't starting a war with you.

second of all, yes you can make that much money, so i hope you start working your ass off and make top 1% of your class...........

hope you make it cause that modena is a nice frickin' ride.....i personally like that new bently sportscar, i forgot what it's called.....someone was trying to convince me that the new S2000 takes just about anything off the line but i'm having a hard time believing that.
 
Dood~! I ran into an old face from High School just this evening. He's going to an allopathic school and I told him I will be going to a DO school. he said, "DO....hmm, what kind of DENTIST is that again? there are so many...."


WHAAAAAAAAAT!????? (I thought to myself) and AIYAA!
😱 😕

Whatevers...as one person wrote, "DO is short for DOCTOR!" Awesome!
 
Well the problem is equally due to the name and not just people's ignorance.
 
jUxTaPoSiTiOn said:
Dood~! I ran into an old face from High School just this evening. He's going to an allopathic school and I told him I will be going to a DO school. he said, "DO....hmm, what kind of DENTIST is that again? there are so many...."


WHAAAAAAAAAT!????? (I thought to myself) and AIYAA!
😱 😕

Whatevers...as one person wrote, "DO is short for DOCTOR!" Awesome!

I don't know why people are so worried about other students' opinions. What is important is how you will be percieved in the professional world, and D.O.s & M.D.s are equally respected.

Ignorant students shouldn't phase you.
 
its cool dood... ive told many many ppl im going DO. like many friends, my entire family, coworkers, other students, other medical students, professors, doctors, etc.

the only time i was even slightly questioned about going DO instead of MD was when a premed that was gunning for some california school said it.

this has been nothing but totally awesome for me....



carz - dood porsche is the best. most reliable and nearly the fastest stock, though you can mod it to easily be fastest. plus so many versions to be the best car for your environment, simply the best. now the best of the best would be the nest porsche GT not the GT3, though it is a close 2nd. however this is only if you have a $400k+ budget for a car 😀
 
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