Realistic chance of young non-US IMG matching to Pathology without a grad degree or research

[Agua15]

Greetings,

I am a recently graduated (2018) non-US IMG interested in applying to a Pathology residency in the next match season. I understand I might get my fair share of "search the threads" replies, but I believe this is a specific enough question that deserves to be asked.

What is the REALISTIC typical route for non-US IMG's before applying to residency?

I ask this because though most people tell me I am at an advantage for being freshly out of med school (and also because of the program cutoff rules), what I usually see is that most IMG's in Pathology program websites seem to be slightly older people with at least a few years of graduate medical education/graduate degree/research etc. Besides that, I've only taken Step1 so far with a score that is not very impressive (221), but doesn't put me out of the game either.

I feel really silly trying to push myself to take all the steps in 2019 and squeeze observerships into such a tight schedule only to find that matching in the specialty I always wanted actually takes a few more years acquiring experience in in the US in an unpayed position (the aforementioned post-MD-pre-residency thing most people seem to do). And I don't see myself investing more years of my life without a stipend (and I'm not talking of a three digit figure, I'm just talking about being able to live without asking my parents for money).

The thing is, I'm highly adaptable. Though I certainly prefer Pathology, I wouldn't mind working in primary care. Hospitalist Pediatrics seem like a career I would also like. Should I try to diversify my observerships this year and apply for both? Or should I keep an application for Peds for next year in case I don't match in Pathology on first attempt?

To summarize, what's the chance of a non-US IMG freshly out of school with a 221 score on Step1 match to Pathology without any type of post-graduation activities/research (only a decent amount of observerships)? Should this person make plan B become plan A?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Unty]

Never understood how people can apply to both Pathology and a clinical field like a pediatric hospitalist.

Can you see yourself looking at slides for the rest of your life without having any patient contact? Studying pathology is completely different than learning clinical medicine.

This is something you have to do the rest of your life and the two fields are completely different and if you can see yourself doing both I wonder where your heart really is?

I myself could never practice clinical medicine and everything that comes with it like rounding, etc. I just don't LOVE it enough to do it.

We see some applicants who have a clinical background and that's a red flag when we see them applying for Pathology. I know I'm sounding judgmental but that's unfortunately the reality in Pathology. Some apply to Path as a backup (not saying you are) or apply to path just for the sake of getting a job.

I would recommend you to apply to the field you LOVE and can see yourself practicing for the rest if your life. I just can't see how someone can choose to apply to both Pathology and a clinical field as both are very different.

If any program director would hear that you are deciding between Pathology and being a pediatric hospitalist you will not get an interview.

Sorry to sound so harsh and negative but it's unfortunate Pathology as a field has come to the state it is where applicants can freely apply to it like a field like family medicine(numerous spots/many unfilled programs). Pathology needs applicants who are hell bent on becoming a damn good pathologist and have their heart completely in it. Saying you can also see yourself as a pediatric hospitalist will automatically end an interview for a Pathology spot (although I can see a program still take you).

 

[Agua15]

The main point of my post is not whether or not pathology is what I really want to do. That is something I'm already certain of. I don't know if I made it clear, but going to a clinical specialty in my case is the actual backup and not the other way around. That is what would actually take a great deal of adaptation, though I'd be grateful for the opportunity if it were given to me. And I don't see why I would mention to anyone that might grant me an interview that any other specialty has crossed my mind.

What I really want to adress is wether or not it is actually possible for a non-US IMG to get to a pathology residency without a PhD, research fellowship, home country residency or something of that sort. My preference for pathology is undisputed.

 

[Unty]

The main point of my post is not whether or not pathology is what I really want to do. That is something I'm already certain of. I don't know if I made it clear, but going to a clinical specialty in my case is the actual backup and not the other way around. That is what would actually take a great deal of adaptation, though I'd be grateful for the opportunity if it were given to me. And I don't see why I would mention to anyone that might grant me an interview that any other specialty has crossed my mind.

What I really want to adress is wether or not it is actually possible for a non-US IMG to get to a pathology residency without a PhD, research fellowship, home country residency or something of that sort. My preference for pathology is undisputed.

The answer to your question is yes. Apply to as many programs as you can afford you will get in somewhere.

 

[Pathbusiness]

Fresh graduate, decent scores, and interest in Pathology, makes you a good candidate.

 

[Agua15]

The answer to your question is yes. Apply to as many programs as you can afford you will get in somewhere.

Thank you for your input.

Fresh graduate, decent scores, and interest in Pathology, makes you a good candidate.

But is it safe to say that programs would generally consider a candidate like me (fresh graduate IMG) as at least "equal" to another IMG with roughly the same step scores but a lot more experience just for the fresh graduate advantage? Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting your info, I'm just in a very tough place mentally right now...

One thing that makes me wonder is that excluding the top tier programs, that tend to show their resident credentials in detail and everything they did between graduating and PGY1, most programs don't open this info to the public. I believe it might have to do with a portion of these IMG's actually not being people with stellar curriculums... 'cause if they were, it would mean that there's such a big crowd of good IMG candidates for pathology programs that none should go unfilled (which does happen).

Maybe I will be a good candidate just for not having red flags and I'm overreacting... But at this moment I'm finding it a bit hard to believe that even if I had 260+ on all steps it would still be almost impossible to compete in this field against people with home country residency or US experience other than observerships. And, again, it's a really hard place to be, mentally...

 

[Pathbusiness]

Years of experience after the med school and before residency = Time wasted. That's how most PD's look at it. You are on right track.

 

[mestielest]

Never understood how people can apply to both Pathology and a clinical field like a pediatric hospitalist.

Can you see yourself looking at slides for the rest of your life without having any patient contact? Studying pathology is completely different than learning clinical medicine.

This is something you have to do the rest of your life and the two fields are completely different and if you can see yourself doing both I wonder where your heart really is?

I myself could never practice clinical medicine and everything that comes with it like rounding, etc. I just don't LOVE it enough to do it.

We see some applicants who have a clinical background and that's a red flag when we see them applying for Pathology. I know I'm sounding judgmental but that's unfortunately the reality in Pathology. Some apply to Path as a backup (not saying you are) or apply to path just for the sake of getting a job.

I would recommend you to apply to the field you LOVE and can see yourself practicing for the rest if your life. I just can't see how someone can choose to apply to both Pathology and a clinical field as both are very different.

If any program director would hear that you are deciding between Pathology and being a pediatric hospitalist you will not get an interview.

Sorry to sound so harsh and negative but it's unfortunate Pathology as a field has come to the state it is where applicants can freely apply to it like a field like family medicine(numerous spots/many unfilled programs). Pathology needs applicants who are hell bent on becoming a damn good pathologist and have their heart completely in it. Saying you can also see yourself as a pediatric hospitalist will automatically end an interview for a Pathology spot (although I can see a program still take you).

Thanks for your harsh but very informative and valuable post

 

[Iceman24]

No need to worry.

You'll do just fine.

Visa status?

 

[Agua15]

Years of experience after the med school and before residency = Time wasted. That's how most PD's look at it. You are on right track.

That's reassuring!

No need to worry.

You'll do just fine.

Visa status?

In need of sponsoring for either J1 or H1B visa.

 

[Iceman24]

Ok, then if you need visa you should be concerned about what to do after residency and fellowships. To find a job on visa is an extremely difficult task, unless you have very strong connections.