Really need some feedback here.

[lsuhockeyplayer]

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Alright I was one of the unfortunate ones who did not pass my CS the first time. That being said I took it in the beginning of October and did not receive my score until December 9th. I promptly scheduled a retake (costing me another $1055) on February 2nd, which is the earliest I could find an open date. After the initial depression that I was in after failing the "1000 speed bump" I was hit with some terrifying news yesterday. I am scheduled to interview at Birmingham tomorrow and I was told that I could come if I wanted to but they could not rank me because my scores from a retake would not be in yet. At that point I tried to schedule my test earlier to which I learned I would have had to take my test prior to Dec 30 to even get my grades back before the match!!!! To that end is this an universal policy? Then taking it a step further if it is than non of my interviews would matter because no school will rank me than I am screwed! I make no excused why I didn't pass this stupid waste of my time but the delay is not only is screwing me by finding out my grade early so that I can correct it (not to mention they dont tell you what you did right or wrong). It is also screwing me by the fact that even if I did find my grade out I would still probably not have made the deadline before the next set of grades would come back prior to match.

First off do any of you know if this is a universal policy?

Secondly this may sound crazy but is there legal action that could be taken against the USMLE? I am really trying not to sound lawsuit happy but (if this is universal) they have effectively talent me out of the match.

It is insane that someone who has done every thing right (with the exception of a test that has NO bearing on how I will perform as a pathologist) will be punished by this. Please I would really love some sincere opinions. Thanks

 

[TMZ2007]

That's how it is. You will not match without a passing CS grade. However unfair you may perceive this to be, it might have been a good idea to figure this out before you took the (expensive and important) exam.

 

[Art]

You should do a search. This has happened to other candidates and they were still able to match. I believe that Artic Char had the same problem in the recent past.

 

[Thrombus]

Since you asked for honest advice, here it is: I would go into something other than pathology. If it is tough for you to get a residency spot, it could be even more difficult for you to land employment. Other specialties do not have this problem and this may save you much stress in the future.

 

[lsuhockeyplayer]

That's how it is. You will not match without a passing CS grade. However unfair you may perceive this to be, it might have been a good idea to figure this out before you took the (expensive and important) exam.

This is what I was referring to as unhelpful opinions. Thanks any way

 

[lsuhockeyplayer]

Since you asked for honest advice, here it is: I would go into something other than pathology. If it is tough for you to get a residency spot, it could be even more difficult for you to land employment. Other specialties do not have this problem and this may save you much stress in the future.

Again not reallly helpful. So let me get this straight your saying since I didn't pass a CLINICAL Exam I should not go in to pathology but something CLINICAL? Very unhelpful

 

[lsuhockeyplayer]

You should do a search. This has happened to other candidates and they were still able to match. I believe that Artic Char had the same problem in the recent past.

Thank you I know I will get people that are jaded (like the other two posters) but I am just looking for some other people who have had similar problems. It seems absurd to imply that I not go into pathology just because I didn't pass a CLINICAL test. Thank you for your advice.

 

[yaah]

If it is a program you are really interested you might want to just be up front and honest with them that your score may not be in before the match (it might be though since the match is at least a month after that date). I do not think this is a universal policy, but some programs do have it. It often includes programs in states which require passing Step II exams in order to get the educational license to practice and be a resident. But not all states are like this. And if programs like you enough they may be willing to take a chance on you and assume you will pass the second time.

If they aren't going to rank you without the score, then you really aren't losing anything by talking to them directly and explaining your dilemma.

 

[lsuhockeyplayer]

If it is a program you are really interested you might want to just be up front and honest with them that your score may not be in before the match (it might be though since the match is at least a month after that date). I do not think this is a universal policy, but some programs do have it. It often includes programs in states which require passing Step II exams in order to get the educational license to practice and be a resident. But not all states are like this. And if programs like you enough they may be willing to take a chance on you and assume you will pass the second time.

If they aren't going to rank you without the score, then you really aren't losing anything by talking to them directly and explaining your dilemma.

I did rotate and get along very well with the school that is #1 on my list. So I'm hoping they will take a chance. I'm just terrified that all the schools that I have applied to will take this stance and I will be screwed for the future. Thanks for your advice.

Additionally I fully plan on passing it this time (yea I know every one does) but I do have time that I can take off and I am doing that so that I might focus on the test.

 

[Thrombus]

Again not reallly helpful. So let me get this straight your saying since I didn't pass a CLINICAL Exam I should not go in to pathology but something CLINICAL? Very unhelpful

Think about it -- if you NEED a pass on this irrelevant clinical exam to get a spot, then maybe there are some certain ramifications down the line in an already way oversaturated field.

 

[2121115]

I see your dilemma and I understand how you must be feeling. There are a couple of ways to go here. One is to call every program on your list, tell them your situation and ask them what their stance will be. If enough respond that they will still rank you then you have to decide what your odds are of matching at that point given the number of programs that will rank you. I will say that I imagine that programs who will still rank you may be reluctant to rank you highly given the fact that you might not pass it the second time and then they will be stuck without a filled spot in the 1st year class. However, you are not SOL quite yet and depending on how competitive the programs that you applied to are you may find a spot. I would say if you applied broadly you can still stand a good chance of matching at a less competitive program. Most any US medical student can match into some pathology program if they apply broadly enough.

Another option is to consider Thrombus's advice more carefully. As you have seen discussed here before, the pathology job market is a 2 tiered (at least) market with some residents getting good jobs and others not. At this point if you don't think that you will match this year into a program that will set you up in the 1st tier of the market then it might be best to wait a year and either re-apply to pathology or try to match into another field. A less competitive program in a non-pathology specialty will provide much better job market aspirations than a less competitive pathology program.

I'm sorry that you didn't pass the CS exam. That exam is incredibly subjective and I don't even know what would qualify as passing or failing really. Good luck with your search and let us know how it works out.

 

[icpshootyz]

It seems a little odd to me that they won't rank you without a Step 2 CS exam, since I didn't even take my Step 2 CK or CS until a month after I matched, and I'm a 3rd year path resident in the Harvard system. I don't really have any advice, but I don't think it's a universal policy to not rank people before their Step 2 scores are in, although you may have shot yourself in the foot by failing it early enough to have the scores sent to your potential residencies.

 

[PathMD2010]

It seems a little odd to me that they won't rank you without a Step 2 CS exam, since I didn't even take my Step 2 CK or CS until a month after I matched, and I'm a 3rd year path resident in the Harvard system. I don't really have any advice, but I don't think it's a universal policy to not rank people before their Step 2 scores are in, although you may have shot yourself in the foot by failing it early enough to have the scores sent to your potential residencies.

I scheduled my exam for late Feb. I have gone on MANY interviews and only one school has had a problem with it, and even they said they would rank me.

Had I to do it again, I would have scheduled it earlier if nothing else so it would be out of the way. However, all the schools I applied to don't require it until you START working there and even if I fail it (both of us will get our scores back on April 1 - AFTER the match) we could still retake it and get scores back before we had to start in JULY.

Since I only know about the schools I applied to and since you are not pending but have failed it, I would at the minimum call the coordinator and / or program director at your top three schools. Or have your PD call for you if you feel sheepish or want an extra push.

Unless US med students start taking the CS in our 3rd year, along with the IMGs, it would be a physical impossibility for everyone to get scores in before rank order lists are finalized. You would have to take it before Dec 31 and there are only 5 centers in the US; it should only be an edge to do it early.

I think you are getting an overly negative opinion because you asked for help on a very negative board. (Harvard resident excluded) I have been very disappointed following this board. I joined it to follow fellow applicants on the trail, but ended up having only 2 (used to be) useful threads - invitations and rejections - and hearing a bunch of BS. I know the job market is not what it used to be, but the US is not populated by homeless pathologists and there are jobs outside Montana. Honestly, if things were 1/10 as bleak as people on this board say, the residents, fellows, and attendings, would be switching specialties or fields. I know people that have done this because they were unhappy.

In other words, check to see how bad it is before looking for something "medically related" to do during your year off.

 

[Tiki]

I believe the situation with Arctic Char was different, because she/he (sorry) was not an AMG. For FMGs or IMGs, you have to have step II ck and cs completed to get ECFMG certified.

If you are a US grad, then whether or not you need CS to match would be program dependent.

I matched in 2008 and didn't take CS till early spring and still matched fine without it.

 

[yaah]

Since I only know about the schools I applied to and since you are not pending but have failed it, I would at the minimum call the coordinator and / or program director at your top three schools. Or have your PD call for you if you feel sheepish or want an extra push.

I would also talk to your med school dean and/or advisor because they may have specific advice on how to proceed. People do not use their med school dean's office as much as they should.

I think you are getting an overly negative opinion because you asked for help on a very negative board. (Harvard resident excluded) I have been very disappointed following this board. I joined it to follow fellow applicants on the trail, but ended up having only 2 (used to be) useful threads - invitations and rejections

Unfortunately, forums are only as useful as the people who post on them. Part of the solution to overly negative or off topic threads is to have people with important things to say actually say them - to redirect conversations or start new ones. A lot of people tend to drift off into the background and feel they have nothing to contribute, even if they disagree vehemently with what is being posted. You can always ignore specific threads that aren't relevant to you personally. I totally agree that a lot of the recent activity on this forum has done very little except turn people away from visiting here. That is unfortunate. But internet forums in general tend to be a place for many of the maladjusted and pissed off to vent. Check out the anesthesia forum, for example. But I agree - I also wish we had more helpful active participants here - it tends to go in cycles. Unfortunately, a lot of people who visit during their application period disappear after the match and don't come back. It would be great to have more discussion of resident/attending issues that are about more than just the job market. But it depends on people actually posting these threads.

 

[lsuhockeyplayer]

I scheduled my exam for late Feb. I have gone on MANY interviews and only one school has had a problem with it, and even they said they would rank me.

Had I to do it again, I would have scheduled it earlier if nothing else so it would be out of the way. However, all the schools I applied to don't require it until you START working there and even if I fail it (both of us will get our scores back on April 1 - AFTER the match) we could still retake it and get scores back before we had to start in JULY.

Since I only know about the schools I applied to and since you are not pending but have failed it, I would at the minimum call the coordinator and / or program director at your top three schools. Or have your PD call for you if you feel sheepish or want an extra push.

Unless US med students start taking the CS in our 3rd year, along with the IMGs, it would be a physical impossibility for everyone to get scores in before rank order lists are finalized. You would have to take it before Dec 31 and there are only 5 centers in the US; it should only be an edge to do it early.

I think you are getting an overly negative opinion because you asked for help on a very negative board. (Harvard resident excluded) I have been very disappointed following this board. I joined it to follow fellow applicants on the trail, but ended up having only 2 (used to be) useful threads - invitations and rejections - and hearing a bunch of BS. I know the job market is not what it used to be, but the US is not populated by homeless pathologists and there are jobs outside Montana. Honestly, if things were 1/10 as bleak as people on this board say, the residents, fellows, and attendings, would be switching specialties or fields. I know people that have done this because they were unhappy.

In other words, check to see how bad it is before looking for something "medically related" to do during your year off.

First of all thank you for giving me a objective view. I was very hesitent to post my situation because like you said this board is extreamly negative. To the point of malignant. In fact when I was applying for med school I didn't get in the first time and I posted my on here looking for advice and got simular responses. "you should not go in to Medicine". I think alot of the responses I have gotten are simular to this. I agree with you when you say this may be from steming from an oversaturation in the feild. Sorry but that isn't going to sway me.

I am a US med student and I have been in cotact with my dean and they also don't understand how some places require the grades when there are almsot 15-20% of my class who have not even taken the test. Again it seems absured leting at test that has no bearing on pathology determine a place in a pathology residency.

Sorry Thrombus but I dissagree with you with the correlation bewteen passing CS and limiting the feild of pathology. If that is the case then worse case senerio I'll do research for a year then I'll be back.

Also I'll have to come back and let you guys know some (hopefully positive) news.

 

[KluverB]

[...]

Yeah, I know...

 

[lsuhockeyplayer]

Perhaps it's your dyslexia or aphasia?

Yeah, I know...

just the kind of "help" I was referring to. By the way I was typing on a phone. Did that make you feel bigger to point out spelling errors?

 

[KeratinPearls]

just the kind of "help" I was referring to. By the way I was typing on a phone. Did that make you feel bigger to point out spelling errors?

Dude the guy came here for advice and is getting a bashing. Leave the poor guy alone already.

 

[green mantis]

My residency ranked & matched w/ someone who didn't pass the Step 2 CS. He hadn't taken the exam at the time of interview. He took it a 2nd time & wound up passing. Unfortunately, he also had to take a year off, & had to re-apply for residency again the following year. He wound up matching w/ a different program.

As a program, we wound up losing a 1st year resident for most of the year. Considering that 1st years do the bulk of the grossing, this put a heavier load on the other 1st years & some of the more senior residents. It really sucks when you get pulled from another rotation because they need help. While it's highly likely that you're going to pass the exam the 2nd time, there's no reason for the program to take a chance on you when there are other less risky candidates.

At my medical school, if you didn't pass Step 2, you couldn't graduate. (This happened to at least 1 of my classmates.) That means no diploma, even though they'll let you walk during the ceremony. You can't start residency if you haven't graduated from medical school.

Just keep in mind that this is a 2-sided equation. What affects you can potentially affect your future residency program. Unfilled openings may not be the easiest to fill depending on the location & institution.


----- Antony

 

[lsuhockeyplayer]

Dude the guy came here for advice and is getting a bashing. Leave the poor guy alone already.

Thank you I appreciate it.

 

[lsuhockeyplayer]

My residency ranked & matched w/ someone who didn't pass the Step 2 CS. He hadn't taken the exam at the time of interview. He took it a 2nd time & wound up passing. Unfortunately, he also had to take a year off, & had to re-apply for residency again the following year. He wound up matching w/ a different program.

As a program, we wound up losing a 1st year resident for most of the year. Considering that 1st years do the bulk of the grossing, this put a heavier load on the other 1st years & some of the more senior residents. It really sucks when you get pulled from another rotation because they need help. While it's highly likely that you're going to pass the exam the 2nd time, there's no reason for the program to take a chance on you when there are other less risky candidates.

At my medical school, if you didn't pass Step 2, you couldn't graduate. (This happened to at least 1 of my classmates.) That means no diploma, even though they'll let you walk during the ceremony. You can't start residency if you haven't graduated from medical school.

Just keep in mind that this is a 2-sided equation. What affects you can potentially affect your future residency program. Unfilled openings may not be the easiest to fill depending on the location & institution.


----- Antony

Now this I can understand. Also all I can say is I am doing every thing that I can to ensure that I will pass this test this next time around. To that end if the worse case were to happen (GOD forbid) and I didn't pass this next time I would have at least one more chance maybe more to take and pass it before I had to graduate. Thanks for the insight.

 

[lsuhockeyplayer]

Well Match Day has come and gone and I said that I would come back to post one way or another. I would like to say that not only did I match I got my #1 choice. So if anyone out there happen to hit a bump in the road (like myself with CS) don't give up hope you can still match into one of your top spots. Don't let people discourage you what so ever pathology is indeed getting more competitive (in fact this might have been the most competitive match for pathology) but it is attainable. I am proof that! Don't let people like Thrombus tell you other wise. I am now off my soap box.

 

[path2010]

Well Match Day has come and gone and I said that I would come back to post one way or another. I would like to say that not only did I match I got my #1 choice.

Good for you!!! I am so glad to hear you got your #1 choice. I am still waiting on my CS results....just took it a few weeks ago. Although I think I passed, you just never know.

 

[Freak]

lsuhockeyplayer did you end up retaking the CS early enough for the match?

This Step II policy seems to have started this match cycle, I think precipitated by UCSF. I have heard rumours that it will spread to UW, JHU, Harvard, Duke and Pennsylvania schools.

I wonder if there is a verified list anywhere about this.

 

[lsuhockeyplayer]

lsuhockeyplayer did you end up retaking the CS early enough for the match?

This Step II policy seems to have started this match cycle, I think precipitated by UCSF. I have heard rumours that it will spread to UW, JHU, Harvard, Duke and Pennsylvania schools.

I wonder if there is a verified list anywhere about this.

I did my retake on Feb 2nd 2010 and my scores are still pending.