Really old non-traditional applicant needs input

[yingbby]

Hi, all,

I'm in my early 40s with BS in Comp Sci, BA in Econ, MS in Comp Sci and a JD. I've been practicing technology law in California for more than a dozen years, and a software developer before that. I've achieved financial freedom, fully funded my children's college tuition, survived cancer. I'm happy with my career but I really want to use the rest of my life to do something that matters more to me.

I have zero psychology experience, never took a course in psychology, except that I've spent the past 18 years raising my autistic son and 2e son. Over the years, I have improved my son's condition from severe autism to HFA. I want to knock open the door to a PhD in clinical psychology specializing in neuropsych. Specifically, I want to use my experience in machine learning, as well as connection to VC firms and autism society to explore innovative and effective ways to help autistic children and adults to communicate in their daily life.

FWIW, my GPA is 3.42 from engineering undergrad; 3.58 from Master's; and 3.67 from law school (top 15%, law review, national essay winner, worked for a federal judge, big law experience, invited speaker at numerous conferences, national prize in my practice area, etc). Just attempted GRE last weekend with no prep and got V159+Q170(W pending). English is my second language, so given time to memorize vocabs, I should be able to raise my GRE score if needed.

I signed up for some psychology courses at local community college, and plan to volunteer at UC Davis MIND Institute where we were participants of multiple ongoing research trials, and maybe getting a part-time MA in psych from a research focused program or the postbac program from UC Berkeley. But when all these preparation work is done, I will be well into mid-40s looking at internship matching at 50+ years old. Neuropsych is extremely competitive. Will my age be too much of a barrier?

I also have been doing pro bono work at local VA hospital, so I've dealt lots of PTSD patients. I enjoy listening to their stories and helping them out, but I don't think I can do that as a full-time job. So other than Neuropsych, I really haven't found anything else that I am passionate about to pursue.

Could you please share your insights? Is it practical for me to attempt a psych PhD degree at this point in my life? Are there any programs known for their friendliness to non-traditional applicants? Thanks so much!

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[ClinicalABA]

Your goals are also (maybe moreso?) in-line with a non-clinical degree, such as in neuroscience or even developmental. In the realm of autism treatment, a lot of communication technology and AAC research falls within the realm of Communication Disorders (I.e.speech pathology) programs so be sure to research that area. In my experience, neuropsychology has little to do with wahat you’re talking about.

As far as the “practicality “ of it all, that depends. It’s for sure not practical from a financial standpoint. You’ll most definitely encounter some bias regarding your age as well as your career accomplishments, so it may take a few application cycles to find the right fit. Even a non-clinical, funded Ph.D program is going to be minimum 5 years and come with huge opportunity costs- not just financial (which sounds like it may not be an issue) but countless hours spent in labs and classrooms instead of being out enjoying the fruits of your previous labors.

All that said, if it’s what you really want to do and you’re set up good financially, why not go for it! It’ll be frustrating and challenging, but also interesting and likely fulfilling if it all works out. I guess, ultimately, it comes down to what you would be doing instead do pursuing this. What is plan B?

 

[deleted343839]

I've met quite a few successful psychologists who came into the field as a second career, so your age need not be a barrier. More important is whether the pursuit of a Ph.D. is necessary for your career goals, namely...

Specifically, I want to use my experience in machine learning, as well as connection to VC firms and autism society to explore innovative and effective ways to help autistic children and adults to communicate in their daily life.

This goal needs fleshing out, but on its face I'm not sure how a clinical psychology Ph.D. will help you achieve this. I suggest you spend some time learning more about what that training entails and what most neuropsychologists do with their training. I agree with ClinicalABA's suggestion to consider a non-clinical degree. In addition to communication disorders, another field that comes to mind is cognitive/cognitive neuroscience. It really depends on what exactly you want to do.

I would also push back on the idea that you need a Ph.D. Given the skills and resources already at your disposal, why not pursue this work with a scientific partner, or a group of scientific advisors?

 

[Sanman]

I've met quite a few successful psychologists who came into the field as a second career, so your age need not be a barrier. More important is whether the pursuit of a Ph.D. is necessary for your career goals, namely...



This goal needs fleshing out, but on its face I'm not sure how a clinical psychology Ph.D. will help you achieve this. I suggest you spend some time learning more about what that training entails and what most neuropsychologists do with their training. I agree with ClinicalABA's suggestion to consider a non-clinical degree. In addition to communication disorders, another field that comes to mind is cognitive/cognitive neuroscience. It really depends on what exactly you want to do.

I would also push back on the idea that you need a Ph.D. Given the skills and resources already at your disposal, why not pursue this work with a scientific partner, or a group of scientific advisors?

I agree that you may want to re -consider your academic goals given what you have stated. A degree or education in linguistics or human factors psychology maybe more helpful in designing products related to communication than a neuropsychology degree.

 

[PsyDr]

Given your stated goal, experience, connections, education, and the pace of technological advancement (whatever that exponential maxim law thing is), it may be the case that approaching the subject from the tech end would be much more productive. Finding a data set, and dumping things in, while having a peds neuropsych on as a consultant would be a lot faster. The fear is that your connections, expertise, etc would be old news or not accessible by the time you get to the research part.

A decent analog would be that dermatology app.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Unlike the other posters, I'm going to advocate for sticking with a clinical degree because it's necessary/at least very helpful if you want to work with patients/do clinical trials of interventions and because the job market is much, much friendlier for clinical psychology academic aspirants.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I'm happy with my career but I really want to use the rest of my life to do something that matters more to me.

I want to use my experience in machine learning, as well as connection to VC firms and autism society to explore innovative and effective ways to help autistic children and adults to communicate in their daily life.

So other than Neuropsych, I really haven't found anything else that I am passionate about to pursue.

How will a doctorate help you achieve your goals? Specifically, what do you imagine will happen once you complete a doctorate (if you tell us exactly what you imagine we can provide more direct feedback if that is doable)?

My concern is that you have no academic experience with Psychology (not even an undergrad course) up to this point but already know you are interested in neuropsychology. For all you know, you have an inaccurate view of what a psychologist or a neuropsychologist does. I would take some courses to better understand what Psychology, as a field, is all about. Learn what a doctorate will do for you and whether this will achieve your stated goals. If you are just needing more academic knowledge, perhaps a good masters program will suffice. Are you looking to become a clinician? If that is the case, again a license-eligible masters may be better. Are you looking to become a researcher? Do you want to have a lab at a top tier university? That is a very difficult mountain to climb and you might find that you didn't want that halfway through grad school. Are you looking to work in the private sector? Perhaps teaming up with a psychologist would be better.

I have seen numerous people pursue a second career in clinical psychology. The oldest I came across was in their 40s in grad school. I knew one computer person to do it as well. So, it isn't out of the ordinary. Any high quality school will consider age and outside experience as a benefit. They will also want to make sure that you know what you are getting into.

 

[Jegg]

Go for it.


That’s all I got....