Reapplicant: Waitlisted last cycle & looking for experience and insight!

[deleted1006692]

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Hi everyone. Last cycle, I had a few early interviews for CA allopathic schools which resulted in waitlist positions. Since then, I continued my various jobs and activities hoping to receive some good news later in the cycle. Unfortunately and fortunately, I found myself reapplying this Summer after consulting others regarding my application. After talking to the adcoms of schools I interviewed with, it seemed that a waitlist position could best be interpreted as "you were good enough to not let you go, but not good enough to stop us from seeing what's out there."

About myself: I am a ORM applicant who studied integrative/systems biology at a UC. My two main ECs reside in research and teaching. After graduation, I spent the following 2 years gaining clinical experience.

I am currently about to start an unplanned gap year and I should've assumed the worst with the waitlist positions. However, my focus stays the same. That is, looking for opportunities (via work or volunteering) to expand my experience in the medical field.

That being said, I have some questions that I hope this community could shed some light on for me.
1. How do adcoms view re-applicants who were waitlisted in a previous cycle? (Positively? Negatively? Somewhere in between? Likelihood of being interviewed again?)
2. I completed secondaries in August. Learning from last year's mistake of being too optimistic, is there a time (month) I should begin the process of applying to a post-bac, re-taking the MCAT, or doing a graduate program?
3. If anyone has experience with this particular situation, do you have any advice/insight to share that you found helpful?

Thank you in advance 🙂

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

Hi everyone. Last cycle, I had a few early interviews for CA allopathic schools which resulted in waitlist positions. Since then, I continued my various jobs and activities hoping to receive some good news later in the cycle. Unfortunately and fortunately, I found myself reapplying this Summer after consulting others regarding my application. After talking to the adcoms of schools I interviewed with, it seemed that a waitlist position could best be interpreted as "you were good enough to not let you go, but not good enough to stop us from seeing what's out there."

About myself: I am a ORM applicant who studied integrative/systems biology at a UC. My two main ECs reside in research and teaching. After graduation, I spent the following 2 years gaining clinical experience.

I am currently about to start an unplanned gap year and I should've assumed the worst with the waitlist positions. However, my focus stays the same. That is, looking for opportunities (via work or volunteering) to expand my experience in the medical field.

That being said, I have some questions that I hope this community could shed some light on for me.
1. How do adcoms view re-applicants who were waitlisted in a previous cycle? (Positively? Negatively? Somewhere in between? Likelihood of being interviewed again?)
2. I completed secondaries in August. Learning from last year's mistake of being too optimistic, is there a time (month) I should begin the process of applying to a post-bac, re-taking the MCAT, or doing a graduate program?
3. If anyone has experience with this particular situation, do you have any advice/insight to share that you found helpful?

Thank you in advance 🙂

Almost the exact same boat as you, except I'm going into my first gap year now. My issue was last cycle I was low on clinical volunteering and took the year after the cycle to beef that up. I got one early II this cycle so we'll see where that goes next week.

You've got quite decent stats, if you took time to focus on clinical exposure, the issue must have been 1. school list was too high 2. low volunteering hrs 3. you didn't do well on those interviews.

Have you practiced for interviews this cycle? Also, have someone read your secondaries, even post facto they can tell you if you're totally off or to get your hopes up.

Reevaulate why you think you have a shot at every school you applied to this cycle. I had to do this and found a big issue with my list last cycle was that many of them were very low on apps:acceptance ratio. Go onto the MSAR and find the II:app ratio (assume acceptances are ~2-3x class size#) and see what the average is for the schools you applied to is. I was actually shocked to see that most of my in state schools only interview 10-14% of IS applicants.

Out of curiosity, what are your hours for EC's standing at now?

Good Luck!

 

[Goro]

That being said, I have some questions that I hope this community could shed some light on for me.
1. How do adcoms view re-applicants who were waitlisted in a previous cycle? (Positively? Negatively? Somewhere in between? Likelihood of being interviewed again?)
2. I completed secondaries in August. Learning from last year's mistake of being too optimistic, is there a time (month) I should begin the process of applying to a post-bac, re-taking the MCAT, or doing a graduate program?
3. If anyone has experience with this particular situation, do you have any advice/insight to share that you found helpful?

1) The stigma against reapplicants is mostly SDN hype. What we look for is improvement; filling the holes in the apps.
2) What were your stats? If you were good enough to get IIs, your stats weren't the reason you got rejected. Better to work on interview skills.
3) Have DO schools on your list the next time around for insurance. Take a critical look at your ECs and improve upon them.

 

[deleted1006692]

1) The stigma against reapplicants is mostly SDN hype. What we look for is improvement; filling the holes in the apps.
2) What were your stats? If you were good enough to get IIs, your stats weren't the reason you got rejected. Better to work on interview skills.
3) Have DO schools on your list the next time around for insurance. Take a critical look at your ECs and improve upon them.

Goro, I've been following your posts for so long without an SDN account that it is sort of legendary for me to have received a response from you. Thank you for your punctual responses as always and I'll take them to heart.

To answer your question:
MCAT: 513 (with the CI max/min 511/515)
cGPA: 3.76 sGPA: 3.78

 

[candbgirl]

Well it took 5 posts to get your stats. Would you mind sharing your clinical experience hours, shadowing hours, nonclinical volunteer hours. How have you significantly improved your application this year? Where did you apply last year, where did you apply this year? Your stats seem fine. Do you have access to interview help?

 

[Goro]

Goro, I've been following your posts for so long without an SDN account that it is sort of legendary for me to have received a response from you. Thank you for your punctual responses as always and I'll take them to heart.

To answer your question:
MCAT: 513 (with the CI max/min 511/515)
cGPA: 3.76 sGPA: 3.78

Your stats are not the problem. No retake or SMP!!!

 

[MyOdyssey]

Hi everyone. Last cycle, I had a few early interviews for CA allopathic schools which resulted in waitlist positions. Since then, I continued my various jobs and activities hoping to receive some good news later in the cycle. Unfortunately and fortunately, I found myself reapplying this Summer after consulting others regarding my application. After talking to the adcoms of schools I interviewed with, it seemed that a waitlist position could best be interpreted as "you were good enough to not let you go, but not good enough to stop us from seeing what's out there."

About myself: I am a ORM applicant who studied integrative/systems biology at a UC. My two main ECs reside in research and teaching. After graduation, I spent the following 2 years gaining clinical experience.

I am currently about to start an unplanned gap year and I should've assumed the worst with the waitlist positions. However, my focus stays the same. That is, looking for opportunities (via work or volunteering) to expand my experience in the medical field.

That being said, I have some questions that I hope this community could shed some light on for me.
1. How do adcoms view re-applicants who were waitlisted in a previous cycle? (Positively? Negatively? Somewhere in between? Likelihood of being interviewed again?)
2. I completed secondaries in August. Learning from last year's mistake of being too optimistic, is there a time (month) I should begin the process of applying to a post-bac, re-taking the MCAT, or doing a graduate program?
3. If anyone has experience with this particular situation, do you have any advice/insight to share that you found helpful?

Thank you in advance 🙂

Your stats are fine but probably aren't so high as to open the doors to T20 type medical schools.

However, your primary ECs are teaching/research which best fits the mission of T20 research powerhouse type medical schools.

Other medical schools care less about having lots of research than they do about a more balanced application that includes nonclinical volunteering to the underprivileged and clinical experience (paid or volunteer), which you may be lacking relative to what these other schools would deem above average or outstanding.

So you may be perceived as a 'tweener - stats not quite high enough to win an acceptance from research powerhouses and other metrics not quite impressive enough to win an acceptance from other medical schools.

What are you planning to do during your gap year?

What leadership roles have you undertaken?

Given the competitiveness of CA medical school admissions, it'll be important for you to apply to a wisely chosen range of out of state medical schools for which you're a good match.

 

[Faha]

I suggest applying more broadly and add these schools:
Vermont
New York Medical College
Albany
Hofstra
Seton Hall
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
NOVA MD
Oakland Beaumont
Wayne State
Western Michigan
Medical College Wisconsin
Rosalind Franklin
Loyola
TCU-UNT

 

[Goro]

I’m sorry about that, I thought they were visible in the signature (MCAT and GPA), but perhaps not. Thanks for taking your time to read and help me out, I really appreciate this.

Clinical work/experience hours: approximately 1000 hours over 2 years.

Shadowing: 0 hours considering a position only for shadowing (above clinic hours required shadowing as part of training - I don’t know if this counts).

Non-clinical volunteer hours: approximately 100 hours, as part of my undergraduate institution’s honors program.

Significant improvements/changes:
1. Re-writing primary essays and secondaries to showcase maturity and provide evidence where appropriate to justify statements. In the first cycle, I realized that I didn’t convey how important my research was in helping me choose medicine as a professional career, so I focused on discussing this more in depth for the current cycle. After re-reading my first application, I also wrote from an emotional place which may have conveyed a different message then I intended to my disadvantage.

2. Another full year of teaching. As a TA at my alma matter, I toned down the overconfident attitude I had as a “successful” undergraduate, changed my perspective/tactics on how to interact with a diverse student population, and ultimately learned how to deal with uncertainty and anxiety through a variety of methods which I shared with my students when appropriate. This is all reflected more heavily in my writing.

3. This summer while beginning the reapplication process, I picked up a medical assistant position. As expected, this ultimately revamped my excitement and interest to pursue medicine.

Last year:
Applied to all CA schools, 5 IS & OOS DOs, and 10 OOS public schools all within my GPA and MCAT ranges. I also optimistically applied to two Ivy League schools after receiving emails to submit applications, but realized they were automated emails sent to all individuals that fit a generally desired applicant portfolio.

This year:
(IS)
UCI
UCR
UCSD
USC
UCD
CUSM
CNUCOM
KP

(OOS)
Colorado
GW
Tufts
Rush
Frank H. Netter
Tulane
Emory
Creighton

Access to interview help:
Fortunately, I do. My classmates from undergrad who are currently MS1s have been very kind in offering interview help for me. I’ve also been shown online resources as well!

No shadowing was lethal. You need to show that you know what a doctor's day is like.

Forget U CO and CNU.
Skip UCR is you're not from the Inland Empire.
Add Touro-CA, AZCOM, TUNCOM, both Westerns, PacNW. As a reapplicant, beggars can't be choosy....especially if you want to stay on the West coast.

 

[deleted1006692]

I suggest applying more broadly and add these schools:
Vermont
New York Medical College
Albany
Hofstra
Seton Hall
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
NOVA MD
Oakland Beaumont
Wayne State
Western Michigan
Medical College Wisconsin
Rosalind Franklin
Loyola
TCU-UNT

Thanks for the tip! Would now be too late though if I haven’t applied to these schools primarily?

 

[Faha]

Thanks for the tip! Would now be too late though if I haven’t applied to these schools primarily?

No, it is not too late. Just submit the secondaries by mid September.

 

[gyngyn]

I’m sorry about that, I thought they were visible in the signature (MCAT and GPA), but perhaps not. Thanks for taking your time to read and help me out, I really appreciate this.

Clinical work/experience hours: approximately 1000 hours over 2 years.

Shadowing: 0 hours considering a position only for shadowing (above clinic hours required shadowing as part of training - I don’t know if this counts).

Non-clinical volunteer hours: approximately 100 hours, as part of my undergraduate institution’s honors program.

Significant improvements/changes:
1. Re-writing primary essays and secondaries to showcase maturity and provide evidence where appropriate to justify statements. In the first cycle, I realized that I didn’t convey how important my research was in helping me choose medicine as a professional career, so I focused on discussing this more in depth for the current cycle. After re-reading my first application, I also wrote from an emotional place which may have conveyed a different message then I intended to my disadvantage.

2. Another full year of teaching. As a TA at my alma matter, I toned down the overconfident attitude I had as a “successful” undergraduate, changed my perspective/tactics on how to interact with a diverse student population, and ultimately learned how to deal with uncertainty and anxiety through a variety of methods which I shared with my students when appropriate. This is all reflected more heavily in my writing.

3. This summer while beginning the reapplication process, I picked up a medical assistant position. As expected, this ultimately revamped my excitement and interest to pursue medicine.

Last year:
Applied to all CA schools, 5 IS & OOS DOs, and 10 OOS public schools all within my GPA and MCAT ranges. I also optimistically applied to two Ivy League schools after receiving emails to submit applications, but realized they were automated emails sent to all individuals that fit a generally desired applicant portfolio.

This year:
(IS)
UCI
UCR
UCSD
USC
UCD
CUSM
CNUCOM
KP

(OOS)
Colorado
GW
Tufts
Rush
Frank H. Netter
Tulane
Emory
Creighton

Access to interview help:
Fortunately, I do. My classmates from undergrad who are currently MS1s have been very kind in offering interview help for me. I’ve also been shown online resources as well!

Are you aware that Northstate does not allow its students access to federal loans and payback mechanisms?
I count 6 schools on your list where you have a fair to good chance at an interview.
That's not often enough for a CA applicant.

 

[deleted1006692]

Are you aware that Northstate does not allow its students access to federal loans and payback mechanisms?

I was not aware of that. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, @gyngyn.


This is directed towards everyone: With my stats not being the main issue after reading, would it be helpful for me to do the following?
1. Improve writing
2. Increase volunteering
3. Apply more broadly

Thanks again everyone for the time and constructive criticism.

 

[Faha]

I was not aware of that. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, @gyngyn.


This is directed towards everyone: With my stats not being the main issue after reading, would it be helpful for me to do the following?
1. Improve writing
2. Increase volunteering
3. Apply more broadly

Thanks again everyone for the time and constructive criticism.

Apply more broadly.

 

[candbgirl]

If you haven’t submitted your secondary to Rush, skip it. They expect insane amount of service. Add more schools and Look at OOS private schools. And get some shadowing. You really need this, especially in primary care. If you can increase your nonclinical volunteering that would be good. Your new med assist job will add to your application. I like that you changed the tone of your application. Good luck.

Oh, and all of that stuff might be in your signature. I probably have my settings messed up.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Thanks! I’ve definitely felt like a “tweener” for a while now.

Leadership roles?
1. Would teaching count? Some of these sessions would have 50-100 students and usually involved reviews for biology and chemistry exams. Encouraging discussions, presenting novel scenarios for students to apply fundamental concepts, and redirecting student questions using the Socratic method for an optimal learning experience.

2. During my final undergraduate year, I was the oldest non-graduate lab member and was responsible for training younger members in laboratory work. I often answered and explained why we were doing experiments and how those results could shed light on the next step we needed to take in our research.

Plans for this gap year?
This medical assistant job is temporary unfortunately. So I’ll probably move back home to save on rent and further my volunteer experience/community service which seems to be an agreed response from everyone who has replied to this thread (thanks by the way!). In my hometown, there are a variety of organizations that help/teach disabled individuals how to surf, so I may be able to participate in that. Regardless, I’ll most likely try to improve my resume/application moving forward and stay open minded to other activities/job ops. I do have undergraduate loans to pay off, so I may even pick up a weekend job to help support that.

When I asked whether teaching = leadership, I was told no by various ad coms on SDN.

However, your mentorship role in the lab does not as leadership even if it didn't come with a title. Taking the initiative, contributing your creative ideas to a community service project can be billed as leadership.

Add leadership level contributions to your planned community service if you can.

Consider applying to AmeriCorps positions if any are available within commuting distance of your home:

Serve

www.nationalservice.gov

Make sure to get some shadowing hours in - at least 50 overall with many of those in primary care.

Also you need a better school list.

 

[deleted1006692]

When I asked whether teaching = leadership, I was told no by various ad coms on SDN.

However, your mentorship role in the lab does not as leadership even if it didn't come with a title. Taking the initiative, contributing your creative ideas to a community service project can be billed as leadership.

Add leadership level contributions to your planned community service if you can.

Consider applying to AmeriCorps positions if any are available within commuting distance of your home:

Serve

www.nationalservice.gov

Make sure to get some shadowing hours in - at least 50 overall with many of those in primary care.

Also you need a better school list.

Thank you!

 

[MyOdyssey]

Thank you!

I meant to say your mentorship role in the lab DOES count as leadership.

 

[deleted1006692]

When I asked whether teaching = leadership, I was told no by various ad coms on SDN.

However, your mentorship role in the lab does not as leadership even if it didn't come with a title. Taking the initiative, contributing your creative ideas to a community service project can be billed as leadership.

Add leadership level contributions to your planned community service if you can.

Consider applying to AmeriCorps positions if any are available within commuting distance of your home:

Serve

www.nationalservice.gov

Make sure to get some shadowing hours in - at least 50 overall with many of those in primary care.

Also you need a better school list.

Just did some research into AmeriCorps volunteering opportunities and was impressed. Given the wide range of opportunities in multiple locations, I am surprised that I didn't hear about it from my undergraduate institution. It's also great that some of these contracts cover living expenses. Thanks @MyOdyssey for the tips and recommendation. 🙂

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

Wow this thread blew up since I was here last.
I definitely agree you should apply to a handful more school. Like 4-7 more. From the criteria I looked at (looking out of a very similar boat to yours) I sent late primaries to EVMS, Jacobs/Buffalo & Einstein - these have good OOS acceptances, within our stat range, good app:II ratio and short secondaries. If you haven't finished any secondaries, I would be glad to give them a look over!

 

[bluepeony]

Wow this thread blew up since I was here last.
I definitely agree you should apply to a handful more school. Like 4-7 more. From the criteria I looked at (looking out of a very similar boat to yours) I sent late primaries to EVMS, Jacobs/Buffalo & Einstein - these have good OOS acceptances, within our stat range, good app:II ratio and short secondaries. If you haven't finished any secondaries, I would be glad to give them a look over!

Are you sure SUNY Buffalo has good OOS acceptances? Doesn't seem the case based on MSAR data.

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

Are you sure SUNY Buffalo has good OOS acceptances? Doesn't seem the case based on MSAR data.

Jacobs School of Medicine and Biomedical Sciences at the university at Buffalo:
184 interviews attended/1678 OOS applications = 10.97% which is about the rate for most IS public schools (at least the ones I've looked at)

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Get more nonclinical volunteering. Also, how did interviews on the DO side of things shake out? You’re a very strong DO applicant.

 

[deleted1006692]

Get more nonclinical volunteering. Also, how did interviews on the DO side of things shake out? You’re a very strong DO applicant.

Thanks for the advice in regards to volunteering!

I really thought so too, but I didn’t receive any interviews from DO schools. It’s possible that classes I thought that counted as humanities were not accepted as the required humanities coursework for each respective school.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Yeah, the humanities courses might’ve been a problem. Get a DO LOR; that might help. Check the schools’ requirements; different schools might be different. Also, you might look into professional interview coaching, if you can afford it. Good luck; you’ve got a shot.

As for retakes: I’d agree with the wise adcoms’ advice here, unless you’re confident you can get a 518 or better. If you’ve been breaking 520 on multiple full-length AAMC exams and can keep your anxiety under control on Test Day, you have an excellent shot at that. A retake with a 516 or less might make you look like a bit of a perfectionist.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Thanks for the advice in regards to volunteering!

I really thought so too, but I didn’t receive any interviews from DO schools. It’s possible that classes I thought that counted as humanities were not accepted as the required humanities coursework for each respective school.

I can share my experience with my MD interviews though:

I had 3 interviews total last year with results of 2 WL and 1 R. If I recall correctly, the interview that resulted in the R didn’t go so well. It was 1 on 1, and when it started rough, it was difficult for me to come back on a confident note. The R was heavy, but no surprise.

I felt outgunned by the other candidates at my other interviews. I remember a few people mentioning how this particular interview was “the last one of their cycle”, yet September 2018 had just begun and this was my first. Regardless, toured the campus, and portrayed the qualities that represented me best (outspoken, positive, relatable - personal qualities anyone gains after working in the customer service industry).

My interpretation of the interviewers’ reactions at the WL’d schools?
- 1/2 seemed uninterested at first, but after personal anecdotes that related to their main question, I broke a smile and sometimes even a soft laugh.
-1/4 had no time (or just didn’t react...I was super impressed by the emotional control) for fluffiness and just wanted a straight answer.
-1/4 totally loved the anecdotes, dove into them, asked details, wanted an ending and what I learned from it.

A great experience overall, but looking back, I could have toned down my excitement and answered the questions just as passionately without the same demeanor that may have portrayed immaturity.

IF you have to reapply next cycle, will your MCAT have to be retaken?

 

[deleted1006692]

IF you have to reapply next cycle, will your MCAT have to be retaken?

I took it in 2018, so I don’t think so given the 3 year timeframe.

To be honest, I feel that re-learning all that material could be beneficial if offered a position at a program.

 

[MyOdyssey]

I took it in 2018, so I don’t think so given the 3 year timeframe.

To be honest, I feel that re-learning all that material could be beneficial if offered a position at a program.

Schools have 3 years from matriculation or 2 years from matriculation expiration dates for MCAT scores.

Did you take it early or late 2018?

 

[deleted1006692]

Schools have 3 years from matriculation or 2 years from matriculation expiration dates for MCAT scores.

Did you take it early or late 2018?

Early!