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Reapplying with a 33N and 3.89
- Thread starter ironlionzion
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~4 interviews sounds lowish for 16 applications given your stats, but the late completion date probably played a role. Also, do you only have one summer of clinical exposure? I don't think you need a thousand hours or anything, but many schools might prefer to see more than three months duration.
It also sounds like you might not be making the most of your interviews, if you have a .000 batting average with a 33/3.9. Have you done any mock interviews? Gotten feedback from schools that interviewed but rejected you?
You're probably fine just reapplying now, but if you're taking another year you might as well try to improve those two areas. As far as the MCAT goes I'd be cautious about retaking unless your score is expiring. You'd likely need to get at least a 36 to improve your chances any, (I think a 33... 33 is probably marginally worse than a single score of 33) and a 36+ is hard to count on, unless you're regularly scoring 39+ on practice exams. (My n=1 data: practice tests of 38-40 but ended up with a 36.)
Good luck!
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Well I figured I have a summer of clinical research which included a lot of shadowing in a variety of fields, like oncology, pathology, radiology, GI. About half day in each. My summer clinical volunteering involved a lot of shadowing of surgeons. But yeah I should probably add onto that in the upcoming year.
As for interviewing, I had practice interviews, one of which was with a former med school dean of admissions. According to him I interviewed very well. Of course maybe I was more relaxed because it was not the "real thing." I had 4 interviews and waitlisted at all 4, and haven't been rejected yet but it's looking that way. From what I hear, people get accepted to about 25% of the schools that they interview at.
As for MCATs, I studied very little the first time around and was getting 36-38s. But when the real thing came along I knew it was going to be bad. And I took it in the summer, so there was not really any time to retake it, otherwise I would have voided it. This time around I've already started studying for a January test date. That way, if I feel uncomfortable with my test performance, I can void it and have another chance (albeit $240 poorer).
I would say I'm very likeable and personable, but I'm definitely not at the level that some people are at. Certain people exude brilliance and passion and instantly connect with others - that's just not me. I guess I just need get more interviews, work on my interview skills, and hope for the best.
Thanks for the tips!
As for interviewing, I had practice interviews, one of which was with a former med school dean of admissions. According to him I interviewed very well. Of course maybe I was more relaxed because it was not the "real thing." I had 4 interviews and waitlisted at all 4, and haven't been rejected yet but it's looking that way. From what I hear, people get accepted to about 25% of the schools that they interview at.
As for MCATs, I studied very little the first time around and was getting 36-38s. But when the real thing came along I knew it was going to be bad. And I took it in the summer, so there was not really any time to retake it, otherwise I would have voided it. This time around I've already started studying for a January test date. That way, if I feel uncomfortable with my test performance, I can void it and have another chance (albeit $240 poorer).
I would say I'm very likeable and personable, but I'm definitely not at the level that some people are at. Certain people exude brilliance and passion and instantly connect with others - that's just not me. I guess I just need get more interviews, work on my interview skills, and hope for the best.
Thanks for the tips!
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Did you apply too top-heavy? An applicant with your stats and decent interviewing skills should definitely have found their way in.
I'd advise against retaking the MCAT, the 33 definitely was not the reason you didn't get accepted. Do you have any misconducts or red flags you're not telling us about?
I'd advise against retaking the MCAT, the 33 definitely was not the reason you didn't get accepted. Do you have any misconducts or red flags you're not telling us about?
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Your MCAT or GPA is not the problem. What is your essay like? If it is "I want to be doctor, cuz" then that is a red flag. Can you write? Is the grammar bad?
You applied way too late, and secondaries super late.
I agree it could have been your interiview too. Plus as another said, may be some background thing that is giving red flag too? Definitely not your numbers. Could just be timing.
You applied way too late, and secondaries super late.
I agree it could have been your interiview too. Plus as another said, may be some background thing that is giving red flag too? Definitely not your numbers. Could just be timing.
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Sounds fishy. Shouldn't your school give you Summa Cum Laude for gpa > 3.6 ?
Just saying.
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Summa cum laude is top 2% - that is 3.95 and above on average. The only red flag is an alcohol warning that was never listed on my transcripts or recorded. AMCAS mandated reporting it even if it is not on my file. I explained it, and without getting too deep into the details, I was warned for having an empty bottle. When I told the story to my interviewers they laughed it off and told similar stories in their youth. My essay was revised several times by fellow writing tutors and my premed advisor, and I was told that I wrote it very well and that it was not a typical essay. I wrote about drug addiction and the frailty of the human mind and body.
I applied to Jefferson, BU, UR, Tufts, Harvard, Colorado, UCSD, UCI, UCLA ,UVM, Einstein, Sinai, Columbia, Hawaii (instate), USC, and a couple others I can't remember. So I probably aimed too high 🙁
I'll try to get that alch warning off completely, as technically empty bottles are not an offense at my college. Anything else you can add now that I've given a bit more info? thanks for the advice so far guys.
I applied to Jefferson, BU, UR, Tufts, Harvard, Colorado, UCSD, UCI, UCLA ,UVM, Einstein, Sinai, Columbia, Hawaii (instate), USC, and a couple others I can't remember. So I probably aimed too high 🙁
I'll try to get that alch warning off completely, as technically empty bottles are not an offense at my college. Anything else you can add now that I've given a bit more info? thanks for the advice so far guys.
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Like the others said, your 3.89/33 aren't holding you back. People get in with much worse all the time. Your list of ECs is pretty lacking, though. If I were the interviewer, I would see you as a very intelligent person aiming to get into medical school simply because they're smart. You need to prove to them through ECs that you have an interest in medicine
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True, do you guys have any suggestions for clinical volunteer work? I volunteered in a hospital for a couple summers during high school, and I remember it vividly as a lot of filing, paperwork, and spreadsheets; things that hospitals should be paying someone to do. I recently looked up a couple volunteer opportunities at hospitals nearby, and things haven't changed much - the list includes moving around a coffee cart, paperwork, cleaning, etc. I don't see how this can give me any valuable experience towards becoming a doctor, even though apparently it's "clinical volunteering." I'm not opposed to volunteering my time, but if I do I'd rather it be for something valuable like tutoring refugee students. I'm a college graduate with a respectable job, I'd hope to volunteer my time doing something respectable, not just pushing around a coffee cart. Most hospital volunteers are premeds looking to boost their ECs and the elderly looking to keep busy and stay social with their friends. There's a reason why you don't see middle aged professionals volunteering at hospitals to do these duties, although you do see them at soup kitchens, habitat for humanity, etc. Do you guys have any suggestions? Do I need to be slightly pushy with the hospitals to get a worthy position with valuable patient and doctor contact? Or should I look elsewhere to get clinical exposure? Thanks, and sorry for my cynical rant.
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Hospice.
I've learned a lot through my experience with Hospice, often times I found I was the primary source of support for the person I was volunteering for. Taking care of the dying will teach you a lot about life and how to interact with people in this state. Also you will see the stages of dying play out and be better suited on how to deal with these stages for future patients because of it.
Honestly hospice is something every pre-med should involve themselves with.
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Just as an FYI being a doctor is 90% paperwork anymore, EMR, coding, dictations, proofing, signing, prescriptions, DME, Oxygen, sleep studies, radiology orders. You go to school to learn the medicine and why you need to order certain things and then have to justify your decsion based on criteria deemed necessary by Medicare/Medicaid before the insurance company will pay for anything. If you think that you won't have to do paperwork as a doctor then don't go to medical school because anymore that's the majority of your day. Best thing I ever did for myself before medical school was be a ward secretary, learned all the lingo, who you go to in the hospital for discharge planning, how to get patient's into long term care or extended hospitals like Kindred. Rehab planning, home medical equipment, home health care, etc. Made me light years ahead of my fellow interns because they realy had no clue about discharge planning and how extensive the paperwork can be to get people out of the hospital and on the road to recovery.
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Hospice sounds like a great idea. I'll probably do that.
As for paperwork, I know every profession has paperwork associated with it, including medicine. At least you get paid for it. And I've shadowed a variety of doctors, and the amount of paperwork depends on what specialty you go into and how much money you are willing to give up to pay others to do the paperwork for you. I'm sure you've filed medical records before. A volunteer will learn all there is to know about medical records in a couple days. Beyond that, the volunteer learns nothing for themself, and essentially becomes unpaid labor for the hospital. There has been recent controversy about unpaid internships. Basically, since jobs are so hard to find nowadays, college students and recent graduates are accepting unpaid internships in hopes that racking up experience will give them an edge in finding a paid position. Many unpaid internships are valuable learning experiences, but many just take advantage of desperate, free labor and have the intern doing menial duties that they should be getting paid for. It legally violates the minimum wage law. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/b...ships-dont-always-deliver.html?pagewanted=all) These clinical volunteer "opportunities" could be called internships, as they are seemingly required for entrance into medical school yet. Yet many fit into the unpaid labor described above. Looking at several large medical centers and hospitals, the amount of volunteer hours is about 10-50 thousand a year.
Interestingly, more emphasis on clinical volunteering by medical schools -> more premeds volunteering at hospitals -> more free labor -> higher profits for hospitals
You might accuse me of being hypocritical because I said hospice was a good suggestion. Well, the way I see it, the elderly and terminally ill may not have the funds available to pay for all the help they need. And volunteers can fill in gaps that insurance or government help can not provide. But many hospitals make a lot of money, and pay a lot back to the CEOs and presidents and board members. They can spare some change and hire coffee cart pushers, medical record filers, and office assistants instead of having volunteers do it for free.
As for paperwork, I know every profession has paperwork associated with it, including medicine. At least you get paid for it. And I've shadowed a variety of doctors, and the amount of paperwork depends on what specialty you go into and how much money you are willing to give up to pay others to do the paperwork for you. I'm sure you've filed medical records before. A volunteer will learn all there is to know about medical records in a couple days. Beyond that, the volunteer learns nothing for themself, and essentially becomes unpaid labor for the hospital. There has been recent controversy about unpaid internships. Basically, since jobs are so hard to find nowadays, college students and recent graduates are accepting unpaid internships in hopes that racking up experience will give them an edge in finding a paid position. Many unpaid internships are valuable learning experiences, but many just take advantage of desperate, free labor and have the intern doing menial duties that they should be getting paid for. It legally violates the minimum wage law. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/b...ships-dont-always-deliver.html?pagewanted=all) These clinical volunteer "opportunities" could be called internships, as they are seemingly required for entrance into medical school yet. Yet many fit into the unpaid labor described above. Looking at several large medical centers and hospitals, the amount of volunteer hours is about 10-50 thousand a year.
Interestingly, more emphasis on clinical volunteering by medical schools -> more premeds volunteering at hospitals -> more free labor -> higher profits for hospitals
You might accuse me of being hypocritical because I said hospice was a good suggestion. Well, the way I see it, the elderly and terminally ill may not have the funds available to pay for all the help they need. And volunteers can fill in gaps that insurance or government help can not provide. But many hospitals make a lot of money, and pay a lot back to the CEOs and presidents and board members. They can spare some change and hire coffee cart pushers, medical record filers, and office assistants instead of having volunteers do it for free.
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I don't see anything wrong with volunteering at hospice. It will only give you good experience dealing with the dying side of medicine that we all face. Just doing my usual reality check that pre-meds need to understand that medicine is mostly paperwork and for those who are dilusional to think that being the doctor exempts them from menial jobs - there is a rude awakening to behold.
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Thanks, yeah I understand how many premeds may naively think doctors are exempt from paperwork duties.
Sorry, I didn't mean you specifically when I said "you might accuse me of being hypocritical." I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not cynical of volunteering in general.
Sorry, I didn't mean you specifically when I said "you might accuse me of being hypocritical." I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not cynical of volunteering in general.
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Hospice volunteering is a great idea. And if you're a glutton for punishment go ahead and retake that 33. But just applying early and little bit more broadly (not 40 schools or anything, just make sure you have at least 10 that aren't top 20 and/or in California) should do the trick. You sound like you've got your head screwed on right, and you'll most likely do just fine the next time 'round. Good luck!
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Practically the only thing you can do at this point is continue buffing up your EC's. Your GPA is nearly flawless, and your MCAT is above the average of matriculants. I wouldn't suggest a retake since anything below a 36 would be a negligible improvement on your application.
That being said, submit your AMCAS earlier this time and take a look at secondaries posted online from prospective schools so your turnaround time can be reduced, further expediting the process. Your list was pretty top heavy so take a look at the MSAR to broaden the range of schools you apply to. Best of luck this cycle! You got interviewed at some great schools, so you should get some love this time around if you play your cards right.
That being said, submit your AMCAS earlier this time and take a look at secondaries posted online from prospective schools so your turnaround time can be reduced, further expediting the process. Your list was pretty top heavy so take a look at the MSAR to broaden the range of schools you apply to. Best of luck this cycle! You got interviewed at some great schools, so you should get some love this time around if you play your cards right.
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Thanks for all the advice so far guys. Just a couple more questions. Would you suggest applying to DO schools? Even though I know DO schools are legitimate, have good match lists, and teach mostly the same things as a MD school, they aren't nearly as competitive. Is there a reason why? Do premeds just prefer the MD next to their name over the DO?
I don't want to sell myself short if I don't have to, but at the same time, the years are ticking and I don't want to be in my 40s when I settle down after residency. If I don't get into medical school for 2014 admissions I'll be bummed out. I have also considered DPM. My true desire is to go into surgery (I had to keep this hidden somewhat in essays and interviews) and the top DPMs are just as skilled as orthopedic surgeons, and paid almost as much. Problem is, I don't want to limit myself just to the foot if I don't have to, but I was also thinking about doing that if Spring 2014 comes around and I'm in the same situation as I'm in now.
Some people I know who went to no name colleges with mediocre grades and MCATs got into multiple top MD programs. I will never understand....
I don't want to sell myself short if I don't have to, but at the same time, the years are ticking and I don't want to be in my 40s when I settle down after residency. If I don't get into medical school for 2014 admissions I'll be bummed out. I have also considered DPM. My true desire is to go into surgery (I had to keep this hidden somewhat in essays and interviews) and the top DPMs are just as skilled as orthopedic surgeons, and paid almost as much. Problem is, I don't want to limit myself just to the foot if I don't have to, but I was also thinking about doing that if Spring 2014 comes around and I'm in the same situation as I'm in now.
Some people I know who went to no name colleges with mediocre grades and MCATs got into multiple top MD programs. I will never understand....
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Hey, I am a third year DO student. Applying to DO schools is good option. If you don't mind learning the osteopathic principles and manipulative medicine in addition to the regular core medical ciriculum, then its definetly possible to pursue your goals of becoming a surgeon in this manner. Usually, DO schools require you to get a rec from a DO physician so shadowing a DO, maybe one in your field of interest, will give you some more exposure. Hope that helps. Feel free to PM me if you have any more question!
And to your answer your question on competitiveness between DO and MD schools, I can't answer the question on behalf of other medical students but as for myself I applied to a straight BS/DO program (3+4) from high school and it was a great decision for me since the DO school was only 15 minutes away from my house.
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Hi Guys,
I already sent in my amcas app and ill be considered a re-applicant this year. My question is this:
For some schools that I applied to last year I never sent out my secondaries. So if I want to apply to the same school this year, am I considered a re-applicant this time? Even though I never sent out their secondaries?
I already sent in my amcas app and ill be considered a re-applicant this year. My question is this:
For some schools that I applied to last year I never sent out my secondaries. So if I want to apply to the same school this year, am I considered a re-applicant this time? Even though I never sent out their secondaries?
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i believe if you sent in the amcas application, you are considered as a reapplicant
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Wow, I think we were separated at birth! Except that I'm twice your age. I took the MCAT in September, did my secondaries in November/December, applied to 11 schools, interviewed at 5, waitlisted at 4. I have a 39P and 3.89 postbac. I've started doing my 24 secondaries now. I didn't do a heck of a lot to improve my ECs since I didn't expect to get rejected, but my essays are roughly a thousand times better, will be in 4 months earlier,and there are lots more of them. I hope that's enough. If not I'm off to DO or the Caribbean. Are you Columbia too, or is the iron lion a reference to something else?
One other thing that's changed: I'm hungrier and more humble now. That comes across in what I've written and hopefully will in my interviews as well.
