I had finished my undergrad with a horrible science and cumulative gpa while making a mediocre to decent MCAT score of 28 with all areas about even. However, since graduation I have worked a few years ems and went to PA school. After PA school my science gpa is 3.47 and my overall gpa is 3.11 since I made a few Bs and one C in the entire program. I have been practicing as a PA for a couple years. I obviously need to retake my MCAT and redo my physics that was so cruddy. Any other ideas?
Reapplying years later
- Thread starter ck18
- Start date
Just a couple of things.
Do your best. The process is unpleasant and draining by nature, so just accept it for what it is. Also, you may or may not make it. So as long as you don't have any regrets either way, you should be good to go.
Lose the ego. I don't know if this applies to you, but I've been on this board long enough to see barely marginal candidates thinking they're too good for DO programs or "lower-tiered" MD applicants. Same applies for very average candidates shooting for Top 20 programs. Very tiresome to read frankly.
Best.
Do your best. The process is unpleasant and draining by nature, so just accept it for what it is. Also, you may or may not make it. So as long as you don't have any regrets either way, you should be good to go.
Lose the ego. I don't know if this applies to you, but I've been on this board long enough to see barely marginal candidates thinking they're too good for DO programs or "lower-tiered" MD applicants. Same applies for very average candidates shooting for Top 20 programs. Very tiresome to read frankly.
Best.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2013
- Messages
- 176
- Reaction score
- 15
The 3.11 GPA makes it significantly more difficult to get into a MD program. I'd imagine it'd be similar for DO.
Give yourself plenty of time to study for the MCAT, take plenty of full-length practice tests before the real thing, and look into programs fro grade-repair. Good luck!
Give yourself plenty of time to study for the MCAT, take plenty of full-length practice tests before the real thing, and look into programs fro grade-repair. Good luck!
I think you're going to have to make sure you have to thoroughly plan out the way you will package yourself and spin your story.
Valid or not, it kind of looks like you used a PA program as a stepping stone to getting an MD, which is not the purpose of those programs and may be off-putting to some adcoms given the nation's provider shortage--especially since less selective programs (and especially DO programs) tend to be in areas most affected by these shortages. How will you address that?
How/why will being an MD/DO satisfy you when being a PA could not?
Also, I would double check how your GPAs are going to be calculated/reported and which courses are going to be classified as science, etc. I believe graduate/professional school GPAs are reported entirely separately, not averaged with your undergraduate grades, so I think you might still have trouble securing interviews due to automatic screening if your undergrad GPA is as low as it sounds like it is -- MD programs don't allow grade replacement, so an extra physics course will barely make a dent, & even if you apply DO, is retaking physics enough to get the GPA up to a point where you can secure interviews?
Valid or not, it kind of looks like you used a PA program as a stepping stone to getting an MD, which is not the purpose of those programs and may be off-putting to some adcoms given the nation's provider shortage--especially since less selective programs (and especially DO programs) tend to be in areas most affected by these shortages. How will you address that?
How/why will being an MD/DO satisfy you when being a PA could not?
Also, I would double check how your GPAs are going to be calculated/reported and which courses are going to be classified as science, etc. I believe graduate/professional school GPAs are reported entirely separately, not averaged with your undergraduate grades, so I think you might still have trouble securing interviews due to automatic screening if your undergrad GPA is as low as it sounds like it is -- MD programs don't allow grade replacement, so an extra physics course will barely make a dent, & even if you apply DO, is retaking physics enough to get the GPA up to a point where you can secure interviews?
QofQuimica
Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2004
- Messages
- 18,899
- Reaction score
- 4,295
Why do you want to go to medical school at all? You're already doing the bulk of the same job as a PA. You already have the option to change specialties if you'd like, without having to do four more years of school and 3+ years of residency. And if you say it's because you want more "autonomy," I'll....I don't know what I'll do, but it will be something bad. 
Seriously, though, med school sucks. Residency really sucks. And in your case, they're both probably unnecessary. What's the point?
Seriously, though, med school sucks. Residency really sucks. And in your case, they're both probably unnecessary. What's the point?
- Joined
- May 15, 2008
- Messages
- 5,089
- Reaction score
- 55
I think I agree w/Q of Quimica.
There are not THAT many things you can do as a physician that are THAT different than what you are doing as a PA. Yes, you would have slightly more clinical autonomy, but not even that much. And is it really worth the extra time and expense. You are going to be giving up 7 years of PA salary, at minimum, plus whatever extra money you have to spend on the whole admissions process (and your time, which is worth money). You will get no salary for 4 years plus have med school expenses, and then 3 years of residency salary which is probably 1/2 of what you are getting as a PA.
Unless you want to go do academic medicine or do a lot of surgical procedures, I can't really see going this direction. If you become a really skilled PA, I would think you will write your ticket, in terms of job offers, and then people tend to give you more autonomy as you get better at things. Of course there are some limitations to your degree, and what you will be allowed to do with it, but we (MD's) run up against that all the time as well, and I think you would find being in training another 7+ years pretty painful.
You better make sure you have a good reason before you decide to go through all this - I'm not saying you don't or it is impossible to have a good reason to do this in your situation, but I think it would be a wrong choice for many in your shoes.
There are not THAT many things you can do as a physician that are THAT different than what you are doing as a PA. Yes, you would have slightly more clinical autonomy, but not even that much. And is it really worth the extra time and expense. You are going to be giving up 7 years of PA salary, at minimum, plus whatever extra money you have to spend on the whole admissions process (and your time, which is worth money). You will get no salary for 4 years plus have med school expenses, and then 3 years of residency salary which is probably 1/2 of what you are getting as a PA.
Unless you want to go do academic medicine or do a lot of surgical procedures, I can't really see going this direction. If you become a really skilled PA, I would think you will write your ticket, in terms of job offers, and then people tend to give you more autonomy as you get better at things. Of course there are some limitations to your degree, and what you will be allowed to do with it, but we (MD's) run up against that all the time as well, and I think you would find being in training another 7+ years pretty painful.
You better make sure you have a good reason before you decide to go through all this - I'm not saying you don't or it is impossible to have a good reason to do this in your situation, but I think it would be a wrong choice for many in your shoes.
My reason for it is to gain knowledge, autonomy *no matter the other guys comment 😛*, and a wider procedure set in the emergency dept. I love emergency medicine and have no qualms with "going to a lower tier school". I went to PA school because after during my BS I had a baby. I found a job as an emt and then worked that til I was tired of toting morbidly obese people up and down stairs. From there I decided to do PA. It gave me a broad but shallow education despite doing well in class. I have educated myself further on my own, but personally, it wasn't enough. Besides, we need more physicians to support the ton of PAs being pumped out in southern WV. I personally don't like doing 80% of the job for 50% of the pa. Besides, after being out of school I would really appreciate the freedom of not having to have someone sign off on me being able to practice outside of the medical board and credentialing.
I think you should find some PAs who have become an MD and see how they were received by adcoms with regards to the reasoning you provided. I've known a few NPs who tried to make this switch, and they were treated pretty harshly in terms of receiving interviews and questions asked. I think it's going to be key for you to play devil's advocate at every step to anticipate where others might see any hint of weakness in your plan.
I'm concerned that someone would think/say you knew ahead of time it was 80% of the job for 50% of the pay and also that you wouldn't have autonomy . . . and then obviously wonder why you went for a PA if those issues are such a problem to you. I feel like your reasoning about wanting to expand your procedures is more palatable, b/c that's the kind of thing you can't know until you're on the job.
Also WV may need more DO/MDs, but it needs more providers in general -- there is no net gain in training you to become an MD when you're already a practicing PA (as you noted, you're already 80% there). I think a successful application for you will need to focus on selling *you*, personally, whereas that just convinces me that we need to admit some DO/MD students, not that I need to admit *you*. If what you said about the PA/MD ratio is accurate, I think I'd be more persuaded to admit you if you explained to me why drawing upon your experience as a PA would make you an MD/DO better equipped to work with PAs than peers without your experience.
I'm concerned that someone would think/say you knew ahead of time it was 80% of the job for 50% of the pay and also that you wouldn't have autonomy . . . and then obviously wonder why you went for a PA if those issues are such a problem to you. I feel like your reasoning about wanting to expand your procedures is more palatable, b/c that's the kind of thing you can't know until you're on the job.
Also WV may need more DO/MDs, but it needs more providers in general -- there is no net gain in training you to become an MD when you're already a practicing PA (as you noted, you're already 80% there). I think a successful application for you will need to focus on selling *you*, personally, whereas that just convinces me that we need to admit some DO/MD students, not that I need to admit *you*. If what you said about the PA/MD ratio is accurate, I think I'd be more persuaded to admit you if you explained to me why drawing upon your experience as a PA would make you an MD/DO better equipped to work with PAs than peers without your experience.
This may be a silly question, because I know a lot of the regulation of autonomy of PAs is done by the state, but there is surely some done within the internal regulations set by the hospital and functionally by the attitudes of whatever physicians you are working with -- could you possible satisfy some of your desire for autonomy and wider variety of procedures if you move to a different location/hospital? Might somewhere with fewer MDs/DOs relative to the number of PAs or somewhere simply so busy that they would like the PAs to attend to the most cases possible offer you a more satisfying scope of practice. Or is there further certification you can get while remaining a PA that would allow you to perform some procedures you currently cannot?
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2012
- Messages
- 2,418
- Reaction score
- 957
Are you open to the idea of DO? Because there is are bridge programs for PA -> DO in LECOM
http://lecom.edu/college-medicine.php/Accelerated-Physician-Assistant-Pathway-APAP/49/2205/612/2395
For DO, many nurses and PAs become physicians and they are receptive of people switching your careers. Tell them your story and why you'd rather be a physician over a PA. You're likely to be heard by DO adcoms. I think your GPA and MCAT are good for DO.
For MD its a little different. AMCAs separates ugrad GPA from gradGPA and they much prefer your ugrad gpa over your gradGPA. Sadly, PhDs, masters students and other health professions-turned-physician are more common than you think nowadays so it won't impress adcoms as much as you'd think. If you're not above a 3.0 undergrad then it will be a difficult process as you're looking at a lot of post-bacc and SMP work. Also your MCAT isn't good enough and needs to be retaken.
Good luck and don't listen to naysayers. You do what you want and makes you happy.
No, listen very much to the naysayers, because they also sit on adcoms. And only by listening to them can you figure out answers to satisfy their concerns and get to the point where you can do what makes you happy. All of the above is not just nay-saying, it's challenging the OP to come up with answers that will make him/her a successful applicant if she encounters one of the few but passionate primary care docs who like to point out that allowing this transition pulls a provider out of the work force for 7-8 years, unnecessarily.
It's unclear whether the bridge DO program at LECOM would even make you retake the MCAT or physics. Interesting. That would be an awesome surprise for anybody in this situation.
I'm waiting to hear from Dr. Kauffman today actually. I do like the questions that give me more to chew on for the adcoms. I didn't really plan on trying for MD as I knew my undergrad would immediately cut me. However, the DO schools admissions counselors have all been very open to the idea of me going forward. LECOM would probably want the physics but I could be wrong. Either way, I'm applying to a few schools this coming application year and will go from there. As for more procedures and such. I'm allowed to do much more at my current hospital than literally all of my class mates who also chose emergency medicine. My SP and his cohorts fully trust me to do what I'm allowed to do and would do more if I were allowed. That doesn't really satisfy me, and the more I work the more I want more procedure based medicine such as surgery. I shall see, however, for the giving up a practitioner. Believe it or not, I have a few friend who were PAs for several years first, who worked part time through school. It's not impossible.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2010
- Messages
- 75,017
- Reaction score
- 120,407
Strongly concur. If you committed to MD only, then the best thing will be a SMP, especially with one that has linkage to, or is offered by a medical school.
Failing that, a post-bac program (even one DIY) that shows you can master a bunch of difficult subjects at once.
Either way, you need an MCAT >30 for MD programs, and in the high 20s for DO.
Failing that, a post-bac program (even one DIY) that shows you can master a bunch of difficult subjects at once.
Either way, you need an MCAT >30 for MD programs, and in the high 20s for DO.
I spoke with Dr K. at LECOM. He was very positive and stated that I would likely get a 3 yr primary care spot if I applied. Unfortunately finances couldn't work after I put pen to paper in support 2 households, stopping work, etc. So local ones like WVSOM, VCOM, etc will have to do. Hope for the best I suppose.
Are you determined to go into Emergency Medicine? If you are willing to commit to primary care, there are ways to get your tuition paid for.
Really, I would like to do FP in the long run as I get older. EM isn't an old man's game. I dont see getting EM boarded and then setting up a private practice later on, unless I made it an urgent care. So, yea I would like to FP and work in some smaller ERs as an EM physician.
Alot of PA's go back and become MD's. Some do it just because of the name, and many are still waiting for a name change. Physician associate does fit much matter, but speaking of that bridge program what were the costs?
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2013
- Messages
- 22
- Reaction score
- 0
i am not good in advising. but i think you can't make it. just don't forget to pray. praying is one of the key to success.. 🙂
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2013
- Messages
- 22
- Reaction score
- 0
i mean you can..sorry for the term
