Reasons a professor wouldn't accept you for research

[bea524]

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A few days ago I met with two professors (made an appointment) and asked about research opportunities. They asked why I wanted to do research and I said something to the effect that I was just interested in it. I also never mentioned that I was pre med, though I did not say I wanted to pursue research as a career either. While they never explicitly said no, they didn't say yes either which put me in an awkward situation (and I never flat out asked "can you take me on for next semester?" or anything like that).

What are your thoughts on this?

What SHOULD you say in a meeting about potential research? Is it necessary to impress them by finding info about the projects they work on?

 

[ReptarBar]

you should have said you wanted to pursue research as a career + learned about them.

 

[deleted357625]

Just say you want some exposure and experience in research because you plan on maybe applying to future research programs or research positions that you intend to apply to in the future. Also, you can say that your a pre-med wanting to do some research so it will help you in the future of medicine because research is what keeps medicine thriving..

 

[NickNaylor]

Just say you want some exposure and experience in research because you plan on maybe applying to future research programs or research positions that you intend to apply to in the future. Also, you can say that your a pre-med wanting to do some research so it will help you in the future of medicine because research is what keeps medicine thriving..

If you say the second bit you'll likely get laughed at.

 

[dbeast]

A few days ago I met with two professors (made an appointment) and asked about research opportunities. They asked why I wanted to do research and I said something to the effect that I was just interested in it. I also never mentioned that I was pre med, though I did not say I wanted to pursue research as a career either. While they never explicitly said no, they didn't say yes either which put me in an awkward situation (and I never flat out asked "can you take me on for next semester?" or anything like that).

What are your thoughts on this?

What SHOULD you say in a meeting about potential research? Is it necessary to impress them by finding info about the projects they work on?

There's your problem... Just ask. Seems obvious to me.

 

[Mazdave]

Before meeting with the prof, try to find out what specifically they research (might be on the departmental website) and when you meet with them, don't just discuss a general interest in research, but express an interest in what the professor is actually researching.

Also there are many reasons why they wouldn't take you on that don't have anything to do with you or that you're pre-med (already have enough students, going on sabbatical soon, etc.)

 

[Perrotfish]

1) Make it clear that you know what his research entails and tell him why you're interested in his lab. Make it clear that you're looking for a long term commitment rather than one semester in the lab.

2) Ask if he has an opening. No need to beat around the bush. If he doesn't give you a yes or no, send a follow up email. Otherwise what you take for rejection might really just be the professor forgetting about you.

3) Be prepared for him to say no. Some professors don't take undergrads: they rarely stay long enough to make a meaningful contribution and training them means saddling an already overworked and underappreciated grad student with yet another voluntold responsibility. For professors can't think of a good use for an undergrad at the moment. Some professors already have too many undergrads and are full up. Some might not like you, or might (this IS frustrating) not want to deal with someone who has never done bench research before. If you knock on enough doors, though, you will eventually find a lab.

 

[IlDestriero]

WTF? Are you serious?
You asked for a research position in their lab and you don't even know what their research involves? Real compelling reason to accept your offer. "I'm just interested in learning about research."
Your professors are passionate about what they are doing, show some interest in their projects and you might have a chance.
And learn to be direct.

 

[BiopsychStudent]

I think most professors are pretty understanding about the fact that you're not going to know exactly what you want to do as an undergrad. I think its generally acceptable to say you'd like to get some research exposure and ask if you can volunteer on one of their projects. That being said you should see what kind of research the professor does before you walk into the meeting. You don't need to be an expert, but you should at least know that the biology professor you're talking to is studying oncogenes, and not maternal behaviors in rats.

The way to go, especially if you've never really done research before, is:

"I don't yet have any experience, but I really enjoyed my neurobiology class and I see you're looking at such and such about neurons, do you think you have a place for me in your lab?"

What you shouldn't do is:

"I want to do research. I don't really know what about but can I work with you?"

You're going to need a bit more of an introduction and going to need to do more research if you're meeting with professors you've never met. If you've had a class with a professor, earned an A, and went to their office hours they at least know your face and would be more liable to give you a shot. If you've never met the professor... you'd better sound passionate about what they're doing and want in.

 

[Silverfalcon]

If you say the second bit you'll likely get laughed at.

Ditto. Too bad the poster was serious about that comment.

 

[30Percent]

Next time look up their name through your university's website. You'll find their faculty page and can read up on their research. Sometimes they'll provide a link to their laboratory website where there's even more information about their research and current graduate/undergraduate students at the lab.

 

[Residual]

Next time look up their name through your university's website. You'll find their faculty page and can read up on their research. Sometimes they'll provide a link to their laboratory website where there's even more information about their research and current graduate/undergraduate students at the lab.

Yeah---this is the best way to go about it. Just find someone who's doing something that interests you, maybe read some of the things they've published. They won't necessarily expect you to know everything about their work (if you did, you wouldn't need them!), but definitely go in knowing what they do and just as importantly, that you really want to be involved with that specifically.

At my school at least there are also lists of professors accepting undergrads on some of the department websites.

 

[URHere]

There are many reasons why a PI would not accept a potential undergrad researcher into his/her lab. There are the main ones that come to mind:

1) Not enough funding
2) Not enough of some other resource - bench space, postdocs capable of teaching, etc
3) Personal bias against undergraduates (bad past experience, research area that is very training-intensive, etc).
4) Finding a particular undergrad flaky, douchy, etc.
5) Not knowing that an undergrad wants a position

If the PIs fell into camps 1-3, I doubt that they would have even met with you. So, I would guess that the PIs either didn't know what you were looking for, or they were turned off by your lack of experience and specific interest in their labs.

My advice would be to try to salvage these meetings. Go look up some of the labs' articles and read them. Then, send an email to the professors who met with you. Thank them for meeting with you, and let them know that you've been reading a few of their papers. If the papers are interesting to you, then let them know, and ask if there are any open lab spots for next term/semester/month/etc. If you find the papers painfully boring then go hunt for some new labs.

 

[bea524]

Some of you guys are misunderstanding. I didn't go in there completely clueless about their projects. I had some idea (checked their website).

They both said they'd be interested in taking me on, but where it got rocky I think was when they asked WHY I wanted to

a) do research
b) do research for them (as opposed to the other profs)

What are you supposed to do here?

 

[Barcu]

Some of you guys are misunderstanding. I didn't go in there completely clueless about their projects. I had some idea (checked their website).

They both said they'd be interested in taking me on, but where it got rocky I think was when they asked WHY I wanted to

a) do research
b) do research for them (as opposed to the other profs)

What are you supposed to do here?

You are supposed to answer why you want to do research and why you want to research for them and not other labs.

Have more concrete reasons why you want to do research. If you need help answering that question (aka you only want to use it for your app), you should probably just skip it. If you are actually interested in research, you need to show them that and be able to coherently explain it to them. It's good to practice because that is all med school interviews are.

And don't go in with a vague idea of what they do in the lab. Actually figure out what you like about their lab. Do you like the applications, the methods, etc.

 

[cheesier]

You are supposed to answer why you want to do research and why you want to research for them and not other labs.

Have more concrete reasons why you want to do research. If you need help answering that question (aka you only want to use it for your app), you should probably just skip it. If you are actually interested in research, you need to show them that and be able to coherently explain it to them. It's good to practice because that is all med school interviews are.

And don't go in with a vague idea of what they do in the lab. Actually figure out what you like about their lab. Do you like the applications, the methods, etc.

I can see where the OP is coming from here. As an undergrad, you really don't have the knowledge to formulate a super compelling reason for choosing one lab over another. I'm assuming that the OP is a sophomore or a freshman. What are they supposed to say beyond "because it sounds interesting" or "because cancer research sounds cool"?

 

[Barcu]

I can see where the OP is coming from here. As an undergrad, you really don't have the knowledge to formulate a super compelling reason for choosing one lab over another. I'm assuming that the OP is a sophomore or a freshman. What are they supposed to say beyond "because it sounds interesting" or "because cancer research sounds cool"?

I agree to some extent, but you should be able to articulate something. Labs within my department varied greatly in topics and in methods (as in genetics vs. molecular bio). Yes, as an ugrad, it may be hard to know you would prefer to do one thing over another. It's not really saying that you want to do their lab over another (because you never know), but you give a reason why you are interested in THEIR lab and not just any research in general. You can't be too specific but don't be generic either.

 

[Slowpoke]

there are professors at my school that flat-out avoid you if you mention the words "pre-med" together with "looking for research experience".

 

[raltima07]

there are professors at my school that flat-out avoid you if you mention the words "pre-med" together with "looking for research experience".

+1 - here it is if you want to go to graduate school in the sciences

 

[bea524]

In response to what dbeast posted, I kind of assumed that the entire point if me setting up an appointment with them and discussing the details of their projects was so that I could get a position somehow.

If we've gotten through 5-10 minutes of just discussing and the professor hasn't really made it clear what their decision is, do you guys just point blank ask "Do you have an opening for me next semester?"

I just assumed they'd offer you one (if they wanted to) if you bothered to talk to them about it.

 

[Musclemass]

In response to what dbeast posted, I kind of assumed that the entire point if me setting up an appointment with them and discussing the details of their projects was so that I could get a position somehow.

If we've gotten through 5-10 minutes of just discussing and the professor hasn't really made it clear what their decision is, do you guys just point blank ask "Do you have an opening for me next semester?"

I just assumed they'd offer you one (if they wanted to) if you bothered to talk to them about it.

If you clearly stated your objective for the meeting and it didn't come up again before you left, it could mean you didn't make a good impression, or he didn't want to commit, or he was waiting for you to ask again and you never did. Or a dozen other things.

If you didn't clearly state your objective, how would he know what you did or didn't have in mind?

Profs have meetings every day. You expected him to be grateful that you came to talk to him? He probably had the opposite expectation, that you should be grateful he made time in his busy schedule to talk to you. You need him, he doesn't really need you.

 

[bea524]

Grateful?

I don't care how he feels. I'm just interested in the research. He happens to be the professor in charge.

I felt the objective was very clear (specifically said I was interested in a research position for next semester at the beginning of the meeting).

Either I made a bad impression or he was waiting for me to flat out ask him if he had an opening for me (latter seems weird because why else would I even be there?)

 

[Procyon]

I've gotten rejected for a couple reasons -- one said their lab was full, the other said they didn't want an underclassman. Now I'm just gonna ask the PI again this semester since I'll be a junior next year. XD

But yeah, definitely show interest in their research in particular if you want to work with them. At the very least, it makes them happy to know even undergrads are interested in what they're doing. 🙂

 

[circulus vitios]

If you've taken one of his classes maybe you sucked in lab?

 

[Spin]

A few days ago I met with two professors (made an appointment) and asked about research opportunities. They asked why I wanted to do research and I said something to the effect that I was just interested in it. I also never mentioned that I was pre med, though I did not say I wanted to pursue research as a career either. While they never explicitly said no, they didn't say yes either which put me in an awkward situation (and I never flat out asked "can you take me on for next semester?" or anything like that).

What are your thoughts on this?

What SHOULD you say in a meeting about potential research? Is it necessary to impress them by finding info about the projects they work on?

This. But don't do it to impress them. Do it so you can find a project or subject area you're interested in. Professors' classes are often only tangentially related to their research, so don't ask your anatomy professor if you can get involved in his research because you "liked anatomy."

Think about it this way. Would you date a girl without ever seeing her face or talking to her or finding out what she's like from her friends? If you would, you'd come across as a desperate creeper who just wants to get laid. That's how you come across to professors when you say you want to "do research" without knowing what the research is on.

 

[Spin]

Grateful?

I don't care how he feels. I'm just interested in the research. He happens to be the professor in charge.

I felt the objective was very clear (specifically said I was interested in a research position for next semester at the beginning of the meeting).

Either I made a bad impression or he was waiting for me to flat out ask him if he had an opening for me (latter seems weird because why else would I even be there?)

Personally, I would have asked directly. "I'm interested in a research position for next semester. Do you have any openings in your lab?" Then if he/she gets awkward and evasive, mention that you'd be willing to work for free; you just want the experience. That usually eases the tension.

 

[bea524]

Personally, I would have asked directly. "I'm interested in a research position for next semester. Do you have any openings in your lab?" Then if he/she gets awkward and evasive, mention that you'd be willing to work for free; you just want the experience. That usually eases the tension.

I wasn't aware that you could get paid for it during the regular school semesters. Doesn't it usually count as credits instead?

 

[Spin]

I wasn't aware that you could get paid for it during the regular school semesters. Doesn't it usually count as credits instead?

It really depends on your preferences and the professor's preferences. If you can get a research scholarship, that sometimes counts as your "pay" if it's not enough money to really fund a project. If you're willing to work regular hours, you can also get a job doing research. I went to a big university, and in my major's newsletter there were always professors asking for someone to come organize papers or run tests 10 hours/week for minimum wage. They were specifically looking for undergrads, and they often specified "Fall semester only" or "two year commitment including summers," etc.

As far as credit hours... I personally chose to NOT do research for credit, because then you have to pay to do research, which is even less money-smart than doing it for free! If your parents or some scholarships are paying your tuition, then by all means go for the credit hours.

 

[luke587]

Well you should go to the departmental website and look up what professors are doing and then do some basic research on the project, like say a biology professor is studying some sort of enzyme or something like that, do some basic research approach them and tell them hey i saw your researching such and such I'd be really interested in working with you or assisting you in your research, state your future plans and how research will be beneficial to you as a student or something like that

 

[bea524]

Well you should go to the departmental website and look up what professors are doing and then do some basic research on the project, like say a biology professor is studying some sort of enzyme or something like that, do some basic research approach them and tell them hey i saw your researching such and such I'd be really interested in working with you or assisting you in your research, state your future plans and how research will be beneficial to you as a student or something like that

Does it really matter what your future plans are? If it isn't to get into an MSTP program then how is it that useful for your future (and for obvious reasons it'd be idiotic to tell them it's so that you can get into medical school).

What if you just want to do research because you're interested (even though you probably aren't looking for a future in it) and because you want some type of experience before you graduate?

 

[Spin]

Does it really matter what your future plans are? If it isn't to get into an MSTP program then how is it that useful for your future (and for obvious reasons it'd be idiotic to tell them it's so that you can get into medical school).

What if you just want to do research because you're interested (even though you probably aren't looking for a future in it) and because you want some type of experience before you graduate?

Don't lie by omission. Say the thing about wanting experience and being interested, but also tell them that at this point, you envision yourself going to medical school after graduation. If you don't tell them now, you'll find yourself having a lot of awkward/secretive conversations with the PI and PhD students in the future. "Future" is one of those things that eventually tends to come up in small talk.

EDIT: If they don't ask about your future plans, you don't have to tell them; just don't evade answering if they ask you straight up "What are your career goals? Where do you see yourself in 10 years?" You don't have to tell them you're pre-med when they ask why you want to do research.

 

[Moebius]

Sometimes, they just don't like you and they have better candidates who are more competitive than you. Research isn't for everybody. It is CERTAINLY not a tool to get into medical school.

 

[MegMurry]

What SHOULD you say in a meeting about potential research? Is it necessary to impress them by finding info about the projects they work on?

Not to be rude, but what else would you talk about in a meeting with professors about potential research besides the projects they work on?

Sorry, I work as a tech at a huge research university and I just saw a bunch of summer students come and go. From my perspective, a lab does underclassmen a huge favor by taking them on, particularly if you have little to no previous experience, because they have to train you and explain everything to you. For example, how to use a pipet...(yes, I saw this a few weeks ago - at the END of the summer session). Rising juniors and seniors were a lot more autonomous and therefore a lot more useful, so clearly it's an investment. But initially, it's a risk because who ever knows how steep the learning curve will be with a student? Or how to weed out the flakes/douches from the legit students? A few slip into med school classes every year and we all know how intense THAT vetting process can be.

tl;dr:

whooops, just saw OP date. any reason for reviving this Moebius? at any rate, I hope the OP ended up landing a spot in a good lab with a nice PI...

 

[blahblahblagh]

I would probably say that I want to work for free and that I have at least 6 hours of free time in my schedule/week. It's also important to say that you're looking for something long term (assuming that you are).