reasons for transitioning into management?

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I am wondering if anyone has any insight into the benefits of taking a pharmacy manager, director, or med safety manager position in a hospital? These are positions in our department outside of patient care or distribution roles. I have heard the people in these positions make comments about not being pharmacists anymore as I am guessing when you "don't use it you lose it." I would miss actually applying my knowledge and keeping my knowledge sharp. I would assume there is a pay bump. Anyone have any insight into why pharmacists want these roles? They usually have no problem filling them with other current pharmacists in the department as they come open.

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Higher compensation. More macro-level impact, steadier hours (but typically longer), holidays and weekends off.

You can still make time to practice as a "real pharmacist" but obviously it's not your priority as a manager.
 
Higher compensation. More macro-level impact, steadier hours (but typically longer), holidays and weekends off.

You can still make time to practice as a "real pharmacist" but obviously it's not your priority as a manager.

I like it when Directors and Pharmacy Managers still take time to help out with the order queue and filling the labels. Not just hide in the office and go from meeting to meeting.

That and when they actually think when making a schedule and try to work it so people regularly get 3 day weekends or even 4-5 day weekends when there is a holiday.
 
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I like it when Directors and Pharmacy Managers still take time to help out with the order queue and filling the labels. Not just hide in the office and go from meeting to meeting.

That and when they actually think when making a schedule and try to work it so people regularly get 3 day weekends or even 4-5 day weekends when there is a holiday.

People complain and are unhappy no matter how good of a manager you are so I think the good ones don't last long or just dgaf after a while..
 
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People complain and are unhappy no matter how good of a manager you are so I think the good ones don't last long or just dgaf after a while..

The good ones get promoted to higher levels in the hospital or pharmacy director of the whole health system. At least around here, nobody every stops talking about how good the last director was.

The one main thing for me as what I want in a supervisor/director is someone who has your back and takes your side no matter what. I want a pharmacy director who will tell an attending physician, nurse or a nursing manager to go fk themself when they complain about something that as a pharmacy director, and past staff pharmacist, they should know is the fault of nursing or medicine.

Example: for some reason a patient name isn't popping up in the Pyxis machine because admitting used the wrong medical ID number or they discharged the patient in the Pyxis or their orders aren't translating over from Meditech/Epic.

That is an admitting/registrar/IT problem, not a pharmacy problem. Nurse calls down and asks pharmacy for help. We say can't do a thing about it and they have to contact registrar/admitting to readmit the patient under a new medical id number and have the physician reenter the orders/chart. Nurse freaks out and complains that pharmacist refused to help.

A good director would tell them that registrar/admitting has to do their job properly. Not tell the pharmacist that they should print out every label and send up everything from the pharmacy.
 
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People complain and are unhappy no matter how good of a manager you are so I think the good ones don't last long or just dgaf after a while..
Completely agree. In government, most of the truly good managers find sinecures. When you figure out how soulless the place is, you find a place where you have a loyal tribe, a good paycheck, and plenty of opportunities for night work.
 
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Completely agree. In government, most of the truly good managers find sinecures. When you figure out how soulless the place is, you find a place where you have a loyal tribe, a good paycheck, and plenty of opportunities for night work.
As a government employee, it took a long time to figure this out.
 
Thanks for your replies. Appreciate. I thought i may try it later in my career, just to switch it up if possible. In the last few years we have had pharmacists that were in management in our department take other jobs over multiple depts in the hospital and the other switched to be head of quality assurance. Neither position requires a pharmacy degree. Kind of interesting.
 
One possible motivation is a vacancy/retirement, and the person does not want to work under the leading candidate (or a potential unknown/outside one), so they throw their hat in as well.
 
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One possible motivation is a vacancy/retirement, and the person does not want to work under the leading candidate (or a potential unknown/outside one), so they throw their hat in as well.
Yeah I’ve known people who accept promotions out of fear of who might get the job otherwise.
 
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So here's the deal, I have a great supervisor right now. As a simple example, if someone calls out or is on leave my sup will cover their shift themselves. In the past, I've had managers who force other people to cover the undesirable shifts while they themselves cover the cush shifts.

But everything the supervisor does makes their own life harder, and as a result are people happier? Do they call out less? No they do not.
Would I ever do that job? Dark side cookies for <10k extra with the loss of differential opportunities? Maybe for a 50k pay increase. :cautious:
 
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But everything the supervisor does makes their own life harder, and as a result are people happier? Do they call out less? No they do not.

No, they continue whining (pharmacists and techs alike)

That's why the easiest (and to other people sociopathic) approach is not give a crap about others
 
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No, they continue whining (pharmacists and techs alike)

That's why the easiest (and to other people sociopathic) approach is not give a crap about others
I was going to say that pharmacists complain the most but after giving it some thought I decided both groups complain the most.

And if you do give a crap about others people will accuse you of playing favorites. Heck they will probably accuse you of that either way.

It’s a real kobayashi maru for sure.
 
I have been thinking about management positions lately. I enjoy project work and systems redesign, and haven't been enjoying "clinical work" lately and feeling like the doctors' bitch. I understand that I would lose some clinical knowledge should I get one of those positions, but I would gain knowledge in other areas, so it's a trade off. I think it's useful to practice for at least 5 years before getting a management position, so you can fully understand the operational and/or clinical side of things, but after that you'll still be a pharmacist despite being a manager, and you'll still deal with clinical issues at times.
 
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I have been thinking about management positions lately. I enjoy project work and systems redesign, and haven't been enjoying "clinical work" lately and feeling like the doctors' bitch. I understand that I would lose some clinical knowledge should I get one of those positions, but I would gain knowledge in other areas, so it's a trade off. I think it's useful to practice for at least 5 years before getting a management position, so you can fully understand the operational and/or clinical side of things, but after that you'll still be a pharmacist despite being a manager, and you'll still deal with clinical issues at times.
Clinical work at the VA isn't challenging at all. That's why its so boring
 
As somebody who is former management - for me it isn't worth the hassle.
It comes with usually a better, more consistent schedule (albiet usually more hours and often always being oncall even if unofficial)
a lot of people do it for their ego (not necessarily a bad thing, but they define themselves by their work vs other aspects of their life)
More money - generally I see 5-8% for each step up the ladder (staff rph, clinic spec, supervisor, manager, director).
Depending on the position, often a larger annual bonus.

I left mgmt for some of the reasons others stated.
I HATE complainers, you can only take it so much, and you quickly realize there are some people you just never will make happy, just too self-entitled to understand how the world works. My direct reports (I had 29 of them) all told me (as they were complaining) that I was the only manager "who got it". Now sometimes they had legit complaints, but it was often lost in all of the noise. Then when those above me made me pass something down I disagreed with, I could just say "I don't agree with this, but this is what we are doing".
Now that I left, I work less hours, and when I walk out the door, work is done, no calling me at home, no texts, etc. I make more per hour than the two (and possibly three) people directly above me (less hours, plus night shift dif, plus I have more years experience than the three of them combined).

Middle mgmt sucks, if you can deal with it for a few years, upper mgmt definitely has its perks, but most people don't necessarily make it.

And lastly, I simply missed pt care, I missed doing what I went to school for.
 
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How the world works is in part based on this (those tone-deaf people don't get this or learn the hard way):

If you whine all the time (not balanced by positive interpersonal relations), no one will like you except those crabcakes that like being negative Nancys. Then you whine some more as no one will go to bat for you (i.e., job recommendations, doing favors etc), fueling the vicious circle of suck.
 
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How the world works is in part based on this (those tone-deaf people don't get this or learn the hard way):

If you whine all the time (not balanced by positive interpersonal relations), no one will like you except those crabcakes that like being negative Nancys. Then you whine some more as no one will go to bat for you (i.e., job recommendations, doing favors etc), fueling the vicious circle of suck.
I am going to copy and paste this and send anonymously to three specific people I work worth - the yare very smart, but their own worst enemies (and three people that made me lose part of my soul)
 
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Clinical work at the VA isn't challenging at all. That's why its so boring
Clinical work isn't challenging at all to a competent pharmacist after a period of time. Boredom and occupational enrichment are reasons to consider for management as well as it's a lifetime project to figure out some people.
 
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Clinical work isn't challenging at all to a competent pharmacist after a period of time. Boredom and occupational enrichment are reasons to consider for management as well as it's a lifetime project to figure out some people.
In some settings this can be true but I have been the ED pharmacist for 3 years now (hospital pharmacist for 12 yrs, no residency, just a regular pharmD) and it is still quite stimulating. Just yesterday we saved a guy who came in V-fib, pulseless and we had to intubate and do acls and I think it wouldn't have went so well without an experienced pharmacist in the room. There was quite a bit of med interventions. We almost gave up but at one of the last rhythm checks we got a pulse. It makes you feel like you add value. The same day I also got to witness a patient who tried to kill himself, by taking 100 tables of clonazepam, be resurrected after we gave him some flumazenil. He started crying and wanted to shake our hands in thanks. I was in the room with the nurse giving her a little education on the drug and what to expect. That situation wouldn't have turned out differently if I wasn't there but it is still interesting to be involved in and make things go smoother. I am in a small-medium sized hospital. These things don't happen every day but enough stimulating things happen each week to make it enjoyable.

I remember doing clinical work in a VA for a few months as part of my school rotations and after a few weeks. It was mostly seeing patients for a very narrow part of their treatment either their diabetes meds or cholesterol. I could see that getting rather stale.
 
Not long out of school I took a job as a retail pharmacy manager for an outpatient pharmacy at a hospital. I found out- the HARD way- that having your name on a pharmacy license when working for a large, evil corporation can be professional suicide. You- as a pharmacy manager- are liable for ALL of the poor, idiotic, greedy decisions the corporation makes pertaining to that pharmacy (at least in my state, where the laws are horrible). The pharmacy director and HR were my biggest enemies- making decisions for the pharmacy that often led to us questionably breaking the law or violating patient/employee rights. And I was the one who would be hung (big fines, loss of license) if those decisions came to light even though I had no control over their implementation and was usually not even involved in the decision making process. Needless to say, it was the LAST time I'd ever put my name on a pharmacy license as manager. The money and the title certainly weren't worth the risk. The same is true with retail chains. They go after the pharmacy manager for violations rather than the company itself.
 
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In some settings this can be true but I have been the ED pharmacist for 3 years now (hospital pharmacist for 12 yrs, no residency, just a regular pharmD) and it is still quite stimulating. Just yesterday we saved a guy who came in V-fib, pulseless and we had to intubate and do acls and I think it wouldn't have went so well without an experienced pharmacist in the room. There was quite a bit of med interventions. We almost gave up but at one of the last rhythm checks we got a pulse. It makes you feel like you add value. The same day I also got to witness a patient who tried to kill himself, by taking 100 tables of clonazepam, be resurrected after we gave him some flumazenil. He started crying and wanted to shake our hands in thanks. I was in the room with the nurse giving her a little education on the drug and what to expect. That situation wouldn't have turned out differently if I wasn't there but it is still interesting to be involved in and make things go smoother. I am in a small-medium sized hospital. These things don't happen every day but enough stimulating things happen each week to make it enjoyable.

I remember doing clinical work in a VA for a few months as part of my school rotations and after a few weeks. It was mostly seeing patients for a very narrow part of their treatment either their diabetes meds or cholesterol. I could see that getting rather stale.
"This too shall pass" for most and consider yourself fortunate if you are the exception. But, this should not be challenging does not necessarily lead to boredom, but it does for many. Ambulatory Medicine is fairly straightforward. In fact, basement can be challenging.

Occupational enrichment, what lead to you seeking ER as untrained, drives many professional decisions. I am happy for both the staff who are satisfied with their lot or want to ascend. Part of the compensation plan IS reasonable work, and we have worked hard enough that it should be available if we want it.

It's also who you work around, and they don't have to be good people. My two deputies are people that I have no guilt whatsoever feeding them to IG, Congress, or the Company because their ambition exceeds their sense of ethics, so I save all of the ethically bankrupt jobs for them where they would be happy to be the problem where I would feel terrible if they had a shred of integrity (the sort of jobs that private sector hires management consultants to do). In the VA, there are plenty of useful ways to deal with scumbags. You don't have to be a sociopath to be a good manager, but it helps. But as a manager, you have to recognize the worth of everyone, not just the good people. In the complainers case, I could see myself going further than @Sine Cura's accurate observation and turning it into a self-fulfilling prophecy as if they want to complain in all circumstances, I might as well give them something to complain about while defending my good staff, fairness and equity be damned. I also believe that if innocents want to remain that way, it is my job to keep them from the filth of the world. Management is not a game, it's a conflict that you are paid to solve.
 
In my case it was simply an opportunity that came up and I was able to do it. Although initially it wasn't necessarily an easy conversion. The main point is you have to stop caring if people like you or not, you want them to trust you, if they like you that is just a bonus. This is very important in hospital politics.

I remain in pharmacy leadership -- since late 2017 -- due to the fact that I simply do not like the day to day work of 80% of pharmacy practice. The only position I could possibly stomach in pharmacy practice is 100% order verification and those jobs only exist on night shift anymore or pharmacy IT which comes with a myriad of on-call responsibilities.
 
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Transitioned from staff to management in November 2020. Really had zero previous interest in management but took it for two reasons: 1) Better hours (M-F, normal hours, no weekends, no holidays unless emergency for staffing purposes) and 2) I didn't want to risk getting a new manager that I didn't like, and I knew that I would have to do the management duties for a while in the meantime anyways, so figured why not just take it. The pay bump is nice but not life changing. Overall I am very happy with my decision, my staff makes my life easy, and our upper management is not overbearing. I still staff when needed and I still enjoy that part of it. Haven't looked back though.
 
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Transitioned from staff to management in November 2020. Really had zero previous interest in management but took it for two reasons: 1) Better hours (M-F, normal hours, no weekends, no holidays unless emergency for staffing purposes) and 2) I didn't want to risk getting a new manager that I didn't like, and I knew that I would have to do the management duties for a while in the meantime anyways, so figured why not just take it. The pay bump is nice but not life changing. Overall I am very happy with my decision, my staff makes my life easy, and our upper management is not overbearing. I still staff when needed and I still enjoy that part of it. Haven't looked back though.
I was hoping to get some replies from those who had made the switch ,thanks
 
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