Reasons why you should NOT go into medicine

[Nilf]

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Recent Forbes article. Read and cry.

http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/05/physicians-training-prospects-lead-careers-cx_tw_0505doctors.html

 

[Del Griffith]

a- nothing earth shattering
b- career decisions aren't always based entirely on money
c- lots of docs don't have to be on call

 

[nu2004]

the first paragraph of that article already calls its credibility into question.

DOCTORS FACE LIFE AND DEATH DECISIONS DAILY! maybe the exceedingly small majority. making sure mrs. jones gets her glucagon could be a life or death decision, but it's also sort of a no-brainer.

 

[Phillykid162]

Skipped the article and went straight to the comments.




However, I get to pick my own poison and medicine is it.

 

[WellWornLad]

Asking Forbes why you shouldn't be a doctor is like asking an Anglophile why you shouldn't live in France. Their perspective is irrelevant to anyone not entering medicine for financial reasons.

This figure struck me, however:

In 2007, OB/GYNs paid on average $275,466 annually for malpractice insurance. That number is a slight drop from 2006, when the average cost was $299,000

Can that be right?

 

[Dendrite]

Part of that is due to the aging population and a stagnant number of medical-school applicants.

Haven't there been a record number of applicants this cycle?

 

[Rikkye]

Haven't there been a record number of applicants this cycle?

That's what I thought too. The number of applicants always seems to be the same every year.

 

[Wylde]

Asking Forbes why you shouldn't be a doctor is like asking an Anglophile why you shouldn't live in France. Their perspective is irrelevant to anyone not entering medicine for financial reasons.

This figure struck me, however:



Can that be right?

I was going to quote the same thing. That is crazy?!?!?!?! All of the salaries for OB/GYNs i see are around 225-275 range.

Something doesn't add up, or are physicians really THAT financially constricted.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Didn't you know Forbes hates doctors? Their editor must have gotten rejected from medical school, sucker.

 

[MsJLewis]

http://www.nejmjobs.org/career-resources/physician-compensation-trends.aspx

 

[the donkey]

now, admittedly there is a lot about healthcare that i don't yet understand, but i do know that medicare is facing a crisis in the future. still, how can they possibly cut reimbursement by so much?? 40% seems more than ridiculous! how is that possible? how reliable is this forbes ****e?
money isn't everything to me, and making a little less would certainly not affect my choice to pursue a career as a physician, but hell, i would like to one day be able to support a family and live comfortably!

 

[EpiPEN]

I have a feeling I will still make more money than most of my Ph.D friends.


and isn't that what TRULY matters?


oh yeah and the helping people thing... can't forget about that i suppose 😀

 

[Nilf]

now, admittedly there is a lot about healthcare that i don't yet understand, but i do know that medicare is facing a crisis in the future. still, how can they possibly cut reimbursement by so much?? 40% seems more than ridiculous! how is that possible? how reliable is this forbes ****e?
money isn't everything to me, and making a little less would certainly not affect my choice to pursue a career as a physician, but hell, i would like to one day be able to support a family and live comfortably!

People,

Heed the handwriting on the wall. The society as a whole has decided that it's paying TOO MUCH for healthcare, and decided to pay less. And now everyone's looking where to save a buck. Doctor's reimbursements are the easiest picking; physician political power is nil, and there is prevalent view that they're making a lot.

Expect 40-50% decrease in physician reimbursements in next 10 years.

 

[Jolie South]

People,

Heed the handwriting on the wall. The society as a whole has decided that it's paying TOO MUCH for healthcare, and decided to pay less. And now everyone's looking where to save a buck. Doctor's reimbursements are the easiest picking; physician political power is nil, and there is prevalent view that they're making a lot.

Expect 40-50% decrease in physician reimbursements in next 10 years.

not that i don't respect your perspective, but if IIRC aren't you already a physician?

the US will always need doctors and people always will want to be doctors, so wouldn't your efforts be better spent trying to band together with other physicians to stop this crap? you're already stuck. telling us to get out isn't going to do much to change things.

 

[Nilf]

not that i don't respect your perspective, but if IIRC aren't you already a physician?

the US will always need doctors and people always will want to be doctors, so wouldn't your efforts be better spent trying to band together with other physicians to stop this crap? you're already stuck. telling us to get out isn't going to do much to change things.

Jolie,

You're correct, I am a physician (in training). I have posted this link because as far as I know this is the most frequented premedical forum on the internet. I believe that telling you this has the potential to change things, namely it may decrease the number of medschool applicants. As a result of that, maybe the voters, and subsequently folks in Washington will begin to pay attention to what is happening.

 

[hra87]

With less than half of applicants being accepted, I think maybe, just maybe, the reason for physician shortage has to do with the # of med schools rather than the malpractice insurance.


i stopped reading after the first paragraph.

 

[WellWornLad]

Jolie,

You're correct, I am a physician (in training). I have posted this link because as far as I know this is the most frequented premedical forum on the internet. I believe that telling you this has the potential to change things, namely it may decrease the number of medschool applicants. As a result of that, maybe the voters, and subsequently folks in Washington will begin to pay attention to what is happening.

But the number of med school matriculants is already tightly controlled (and is the trump card of the medical profession). You could cut applications in half and the matriculant numbers would stay the same.

Which begs the question - how can increasing demand for doctors lead to decreased reimbursement rates?

 

[BigRedder]

Jolie,

You're correct, I am a physician (in training). I have posted this link because as far as I know this is the most frequented premedical forum on the internet. I believe that telling you this has the potential to change things, namely it may decrease the number of medschool applicants. As a result of that, maybe the voters, and subsequently folks in Washington will begin to pay attention to what is happening.

Medical schools will never fail to fill their classes, and decreased applications won't make anyone change their mind. With stagnant supply and increasing demand, something will have to budge. The more articles I see in the popular press about the plight of doctors, the more it enters into the public consciousness, the more I am inclined to believe that something will change. IMO, the most likely prospect is tort reform, which will have a ripple effect through the healthcare industry as malpractice rates go down and doctors spend less time and money on defensive (worthless) tests. That is what we should be working for.

 

[Doublecortin]

Recent Forbes article. Read and cry.

http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/05/physicians-training-prospects-lead-careers-cx_tw_0505doctors.html

how do you like this quote:
"The most lucrative specialties--radiology, oncology, anesthesia and dermatology--require the most training, and that means many physicians can't pay off their student loans and earn a substantial paycheck until well into their 30s."

that just goes to show they are absolutely clueless about the medical field. Derm requires the most training😱, I bet cardiothoracic and neurosurgeons would beg to differ.

What a ***** this Tara Weiss is 😡👎

 

[45408]

Oh, look, another Nilf thread.

Expect 40-50% decrease in physician reimbursements in next 10 years.

Yeah, right.

 

[Doublecortin]

Recent Forbes article. Read and cry.

http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/05/physicians-training-prospects-lead-careers-cx_tw_0505doctors.html

the article is complete garbage 👎

 

[nonesuchgirl]

Oh, look, another Nilf thread.


Yeah, right.

qft

 

[ChubbyChaser]

a- nothing earth shattering
b- career decisions aren't always based entirely on money
c- lots of docs don't have to be on call

hahah i love your avatar

 

[Doublecortin]

People,

Heed the handwriting on the wall. The society as a whole has decided that it's paying TOO MUCH for healthcare, and decided to pay less. And now everyone's looking where to save a buck. Doctor's reimbursements are the easiest picking; physician political power is nil, and there is prevalent view that they're making a lot.

Expect 40-50% decrease in physician reimbursements in next 10 years.

 

[Chuckwalla]

They are also wrong saying most medical students are women. In fact there are slightly more men in America, in other industrialized countries it is a very different story.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2007/schoolgrads0207.htm

 

[AggieMD]

this article is a joke

 

[Chuckwalla]

Which begs the question - how can increasing demand for doctors lead to decreased reimbursement rates?

This is actually true. It has to do with medicare and managed care not paying up. A single doctor cannot take on the US government or a giant insurance company, and it is illegal for doctors to unionize.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Every time I see an article/thread like this I imagine myself in a white lab coat on the corner of a freeway exit with four day beard growth, oily hair, and a cardboard sign with the the scribbled words "Will work 2 feed caffeine addiction, no $ needed."

 

[lisichka]

physician shortage is artificial. there is some group of docs(??? is it AMA) out there who are interested in keeping number of doctors artificially low. this way their salary will always be even (or so they thought). little did they know that an FMG would be willing to work for much less in any area in the US.

there is a solution, increase medical school spots. this will solve two problems: decrease midlevels and improve the shortage of doctors.
there are many talented American applicants who applied, and never even got a chance to be a doctor. why does our country reject american citizens who would love to be any kind of doctor (primary care, family med, rural med), and in its place they are willing to hire FMGs and midlevels (NPs, PAs)??? Why?

my other question is: who is DIRECTLY responsible for increasing the number of medical student class spots??? AMA??? why not graduate 400 people per class instead of hundred? why not do this?

 

[Chuckwalla]

my other question is: who is DIRECTLY responsible for increasing the number of medical student class spots??? AMA??? why not graduate 400 people per class instead of hundred? why not do this?

Because they would have to quadruple their facilities. Medical schools like money (have you seen the application fees?), they would take more people if they could.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

ok...I give in..you win Nilf...I wont be a doctor..

 

[lisichka]

Because they would have to quadruple their facilities. Medical schools like money (have you seen the application fees?), they would take more people if they could.

i doubt there is a shortage of doctors because of facility shortage... it is simply an excuse.

many medschools have facilities to graduate > 1000 students per class. rich institutions like harvard, hopkins, ucla, nyu... for some reason all medical schools (large and small) in the US have similiar number of class spots (100-160 people/class). i think there is another reason for such low student number per class🙁

 

[ChubbyChaser]

i doubt there is a shortage of doctors because of facility shortage... it is simply an excuse.

many medschools have facilities to graduate > 1000 students per class. rich institutions like harvard, hopkins, ucla, nyu... for some reason all medical schools (large and small) in the US have similiar number of class spots (100-160 people/class). i think there is another reason for such low student number per class🙁

Ive talked to a few deans that think the Physician shortage is being blown out of proportion.

Plus on top of that...it costs alot of money to educate a medical student...I dont think most schools have the money to quadruple there class size.

 

[DBR]

Recent Forbes article. Read and cry.

http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/05/physicians-training-prospects-lead-careers
-cx_tw_0505doctors.html

I think all of you are terrible people for wanting to make more than the national average salary. (unless you are catholic)

When I become a dermatologist I plan on giving out free pimple cream to all my poor patients at a retail value of up to 20% of my yearly income.

I also plan on donating at LEAST 35% of my national salary to animal shelters and also starting a scholarship fund for Vietnamese and other mongoloid peoples.

 

[Isoprop]

11 real reasons why you shouldn't go into medicine

 

[eeyoreDO]

I'm not tying to be rude, but if being a doctor wasn't a good idea, why are there thousands of Indian, Asian, and Jewish kids applying to medical school?? I doubt those kids' parents would set them up knowing they'll get railroaded down the line.

Face it, I do make a good point. I'm also Jewish, so don't flame me.

 

[badasshairday]

actually the plan really is to cut medicare reimbursements gradually which will eventually lead to a 40% cut in reimbursements via medicare by the year 2015 or 2016. Hopefully it doesn't happen, but the plan is really there.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/17649.html

Next year's 10 percent cut is just the tip of the iceberg. Over nine years the cuts total about 40 percent, while the government estimates that the cost of caring for patients will increase 20 percent. Over the life of the cuts, 77 percent of physicians say they will be forced to limit the number of new Medicare patients they treat.
"As physicians brace for nine years of steep payment cuts, it will be extremely difficult for them to continue accepting new Medicare patients into their practices," cautioned Dr. Wilson. "The baby boomers begin entering the program in 2010, and the Medicare cuts increase the likelihood that there may not be enough doctors to care for the huge influx of new Medicare patients."

 

[154465]

This is my favorite comment. The fact that I have also heard this from my friends and classmates deeply disturbs me.




Doctors make absorbent amounts of money for the work they actually do. Sure it is intense from a load perspective, however, it's not dangerous by any means, your work environment is very comfortable, and you have loads of job security, mobility and flexibility. So yes you have to sacrifice up front a few years to make 5 times the national wage average. Giving up 5-10 years for a 5x multiple in wage over your working life is a small sacrifice. I find it funny doctors complain about having to sacrifice a few years when you get a much better life than the rest of society out of it. Stop being hypocritical and take a hard look at your life some time.
I personally would like to see a better policy put in place that would further protect doctors from lawsuits with the trade off for a ceiling on doctor pay (similar to the systems in the UK and Canada). Nobody deserves to make 5, 10 or 20 times the national average on pay unless they are truly special and add considerable value to mankind. Just because you went to school for 5 extra years hardly justifies that. The rest of the world does not compensate doctors in such a way and neither should we. It's a job and you should earn your money and quit complaining about compensation until you actually earn that additional value through innovation and expertise. You are no expert just out of school and should not be compensated as such.

 

[badasshairday]

This is my favorite comment. The fact that I have also heard this from my friends and classmates deeply disturbs me.




Doctors make absorbent amounts of money for the work they actually do. Sure it is intense from a load perspective, however, it's not dangerous by any means, your work environment is very comfortable, and you have loads of job security, mobility and flexibility. So yes you have to sacrifice up front a few years to make 5 times the national wage average. Giving up 5-10 years for a 5x multiple in wage over your working life is a small sacrifice. I find it funny doctors complain about having to sacrifice a few years when you get a much better life than the rest of society out of it. Stop being hypocritical and take a hard look at your life some time.
I personally would like to see a better policy put in place that would further protect doctors from lawsuits with the trade off for a ceiling on doctor pay (similar to the systems in the UK and Canada). Nobody deserves to make 5, 10 or 20 times the national average on pay unless they are truly special and add considerable value to mankind. Just because you went to school for 5 extra years hardly justifies that. The rest of the world does not compensate doctors in such a way and neither should we. It's a job and you should earn your money and quit complaining about compensation until you actually earn that additional value through innovation and expertise. You are no expert just out of school and should not be compensated as such.

Man **** that comment. That person is an idiot. Why don't they go loud mouth about how A-Rod gets paid 25 million dollars a year for just playing freakin baseball. Or they should complain how some lawyers are getting paid millions for screwing ppl over. A physician saves your freakin life. It isn't just 5 years extra schooling, it is more like a decade of serious life or death training. Man, many people in this country takes healthcare for granted. In other parts of the world some people don't have access to a physician at all, and when they finally get the chance to see the doctor they have so much more respect for them. **** that guy, I can't wait till the doctor shortage occurs so that bastard could see exactly how important we are.

 

[45408]

This is my favorite comment. The fact that I have also heard this from my friends and classmates deeply disturbs me.

Yeah, I wanted to respond, but it's not worth it.

Doctors make absorbent amounts of money for the work they actually do.

This should be good.

So yes you have to sacrifice up front a few years to make 5 times the national wage average. Giving up 5-10 years for a 5x multiple in wage over your working life is a small sacrifice.

A few years? Idiot. My friend will be a neurosurgeon when he's 38. College, med school, PhD, lengthy residency = a few years? And 5x more money? Compared to who? Not the average college graduate, that's for sure.

Nobody deserves to make 5, 10 or 20 times the national average on pay unless they are truly special and add considerable value to mankind. Just because you went to school for 5 extra years hardly justifies that.

What other profession would be worthy? 🙄

 

[badasshairday]

What other profession would be worthy? 🙄

Major League Baseball player duh!

 

[mdgator]

Man **** that comment. That person is an idiot. Why don't they go loud mouth about how A-Rod gets paid 25 million dollars a year for just playing freakin baseball. Or they should complain how some lawyers are getting paid millions for screwing ppl over. A physician saves your freakin life. It isn't just 5 years extra schooling, it is more like a decade of serious life or death training. Man, many people in this country takes healthcare for granted. In other parts of the world some people don't have access to a physician at all, and when they finally get the chance to see the doctor they have so much more respect for them. **** that guy, I can't wait till the doctor shortage occurs so that bastard could see exactly how important we are.

Amen, brother, amen. And they're also naive about the financial aspects of the profession. In conversations I've been a part of about frivolous malpractice lawsuits resulting in hundreds of thousands or million dollar damages, I've actually had people shrug and say, "they're doctors, they can afford it."

 

[lisichka]

Ive talked to a few deans that think the Physician shortage is being blown out of proportion.

Plus on top of that...it costs alot of money to educate a medical student...I dont think most schools have the money to quadruple there class size.

our student tuition will cover it. and with each new student, they will only get more $$$ to 10X the class size. remember anything can be done if there is demand and will.😉 nobody wants change. that's all🙁

 

[tiedyeddog]

our student tuition will cover it. and with each new student, they will only get more $$$ to 10X the class size. remember anything can be done if there is demand and will.😉 nobody wants change. that's all🙁

I believe the reason this won't occur truly is within the government. American society as a whole is pulling away from paying for any education, as is evident in almost all levels of public education being less funded. People are seeing less reason to pay taxes that would benefit grade schools/high schools/colleges or any level of education. Private colleges are the exception, but state schools need tons of cash infusion from states and governments to make the individual schools stay open. For schools to open up new spots, you would need one of a couple things. 1. High tuitioner. 2. More taxes. 3. cut in academic position pay or 4. cutting programs.

Besides this, I think general care is shifting towards mid-level care management any way.

 

[lisichka]

I believe the reason this won't occur truly is within the government. American society as a whole is pulling away from paying for any education, as is evident in almost all levels of public education being less funded. People are seeing less reason to pay taxes that would benefit grade schools/high schools/colleges or any level of education. Private colleges are the exception, but state schools need tons of cash infusion from states and governments to make the individual schools stay open. For schools to open up new spots, you would need one of a couple things. 1. High tuitioner. 2. More taxes. 3. cut in academic position pay or 4. cutting programs. 😕😕😕

Besides this, I think general care is shifting towards mid-level care management any way.

gosh, this is such a PASSIVE way of going along with the tide. I for one think that any MD trained family doctor is 10X better than any mid-level. it is better for the patient, doctor, and the whole medical community. a nurse/doctor's assistant IS NOT a doctor, period. they are not trained, qualified to "play doctor" PERIOD.
i am also confued by your three step argument.??? what?

 

[154465]

our student tuition will cover it. and with each new student, they will only get more $$$ to 10X the class size. remember anything can be done if there is demand and will.😉 nobody wants change. that's all🙁

I believe it is slightly more complicated than that, but I'm no expert. Remember that there is a limited number of residency positions available, with each one requiring about 100k from the government. Schools can have 500 in each class if they wish, but the vast majority will sit the match out.

 

[lisichka]

I believe it is slightly more complicated than that, but I'm no expert. Remember that there is a limited number of residency positions available, with each one requiring about 100k from the government. Schools can have 500 in each class if they wish, but the vast majority will sit the match out.

SO WTF DO THEY HIRE FMG residents? because our American government is willing to pay for a friggin foreigner to train here to cover the shortage. your statement CONTRADICTS itself.🙁🙁🙁

BTW i have nothing against FMGs. i know many. very smart people. i do think that it is completely unfair to reject an american who wants to become a doctor, and then go behind his/her back, and hire a foreigner resident who didn;t even take MCAT/or go to college here in the US. all under the same excuse: OOPS SORRY. WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH AMERICAN DOCTORS. THAT'S ALL.

 

[154465]

SO WTF DO THEY HIRE FMG residents? because our American government is willing to pay for a friggin foreiner to train here to cover the shortage. your statement CONTRADICTS itself.🙁🙁🙁

I apologize that I upset you to this degree, perhaps I misunderstood your original argument. No matter where the medical students come from, there are only so many residency positions available. Yes, medical schools can quadruple their size and we can import thousands of FMGs, but until more residency positions are given proper funding, none of it will matter.

 

[lisichka]

I apologize that I upset you to this degree, perhaps I misunderstood your original argument. No matter where the medical students come from, there are only so many residency positions available. Yes, medical schools can quadruple their size and we can import thousands of FMGs, but until more residency positions are given proper funding, none of it will matter.

yes, you are right. this problem is a not very simple one. there are many aspects to it. it can be attacked from many sides: more residencies, more medical students. more competition between doctors is healthy and will negate midlevels and FMGs as a concept. they will go back to what they are really trained to do: TO ASSIST DOCTORS, NOT TO BE the DOCTORS.

and yes, i believe with enough effort, more medical residencies could be created in few years. everyone is so scared to be a decision-maker, and change things for once. everyone is hiding behind some silly excuse... it is so scary to live in a PASSIVE society 🙁

 

[Wylde]

With less than half of applicants being accepted, I think maybe, just maybe, the reason for physician shortage has to do with the # of med schools rather than the malpractice insurance.


i stopped reading after the first paragraph.

The problem isn't so much medical seats, but residency seats.

You already have US seniors going unmatched, so if you increase the amount of seats you will have to follow with increased residency positions (mainly for the specialties. There are a lot of FP positions that go unfilled.).