Recently Graduated, Kinda Lost

[ein the corgi]

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Hello all,

I recently graduated from UCLA with a major in Microbiology, Immunology, and Molecular Genetics. I want to attend pharmacy school but with my cumulative and science GPA it's hard to imagine any school really wanting me. I don't really have any excuses other than the competition got the best of me and I didn't rise up to the challenge. I became satisfied with just "passing" because getting "ok" grades was considered not that bad in a classroom full of intense pre-meds. Basically it all snowballed for me from there. Anyways, now that I've graduated I've had time to re-evaluate what I really want to do and I'm set on pharmacy. I took the PCAT and scored an 89 cumulative. I'm going to apply to some schools that have lower GPA requirements but I'm honestly not very optimistic on my chances.

Cumulative GPA: 2.857
Science GPA: 2.590

PCAT:
Verbal Ability: 87
Biology: 89
Reading Comprehension: 68
Quantitative Ability: 88
Chemistry: 81
Composite: 89

I'm going to be applying for the 2013 cycle and in my year "off" I'm registered to take classes at a community college like Statistics, Speech, and Economics. I will also be retaking Organic Chemistry and Calculus (and possibly Biology) to show admissions boards that I can handle the classes (By the way I never failed any of my core classes, I got B- or C+). Would it benefit me to re-take those courses and have PharmCAS average out the grade? I'm really just wondering what the best thing to do is. I honestly feel like my B.S. I just received from UCLA was all for naught considering that my GPA is so *****. Sorry for being a debby downer guys and thank you all in advance for any advice you can offer.

 

[Member 5149]

You're comp is good, and the bachelors is a leg up, but not w that GPA. If you retake the courses and do well, make it known what was going on in your undergrad in your personal statement and you should a least get a couple interviews.

 

[confettiflyer]

As an aside, the median GPA for MIMG at UCLA was about 2.9. So our OP was average in a highly competitive major at a hypercompetitive school that only takes like 10% of the students who apply, which makes them pretty smart (before y'all jump all over him or her).

Unfortunately, the reality of pharmacy school admissions is that knowledge of this is pretty limited and your raw GPA numbers will turn off a lot of programs...probably even disqualify you.

Plan 1 is to find a job and start retaking classes -- either informally at a community college if you're starved of funds, going for a post-bacc, or fully enrolling in a master's program (I have friends that did the master's in health science at Western). Once you've got some classes under your belt, reapply.

Plan 2 can be done concurrently with plan 1, you're basically going to have to start over and try to apply to schools with an academic forgiveness policy so that all of your grades prior to this can be "ignored." USN is the only school I can think of that offers this (double check that they still do).

 

[ein the corgi]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the responses. @Member 5149- Yeah I've already addressed my situation on my personal statement. @confettiflyer- Thanks for the advice. Were you a UCLA student as well? I think the whole hypercompetitiveness from UCLA kinda shocked me and I never really recovered. Oh yeah lol I'm a guy.

As for the academic forgiveness from USN/Roseman, I just read on their website that they will take grades of 5 years and before. So that doesn't really help me since I'll be applying within 5 years for sure so all of my grades will be factored. If I re-take all of my pre-req classes and assume that I get A's, then PharmCAS will average out say an A and a C to a B. So if I do these with O-Chem, Bio, Calculus, do you think after I do these I'll be able to apply and be competitive? I'm honestly thinking of just applying to out of state schools that have a minimum GPA req of 2.5 or 2.75. Am I just wasting money in this regard too?

Thanks a lot again everyone.
-Justin

 

[confettiflyer]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the responses. @Member 5149- Yeah I've already addressed my situation on my personal statement. @confettiflyer- Thanks for the advice. Were you a UCLA student as well? I think the whole hypercompetitiveness from UCLA kinda shocked me and I never really recovered. Oh yeah lol I'm a guy.

As for the academic forgiveness from USN/Roseman, I just read on their website that they will take grades of 5 years and before. So that doesn't really help me since I'll be applying within 5 years for sure so all of my grades will be factored. If I re-take all of my pre-req classes and assume that I get A's, then PharmCAS will average out say an A and a C to a B. So if I do these with O-Chem, Bio, Calculus, do you think after I do these I'll be able to apply and be competitive? I'm honestly thinking of just applying to out of state schools that have a minimum GPA req of 2.5 or 2.75. Am I just wasting money in this regard too?

Thanks a lot again everyone.
-Justin

It's tough to say...including newer schools in your application mix would be prudent as their GPA requirements/average matriculating GPA's. Use PSAR Table 8 as a general guide to pick schools that match your stats (ie you probably shouldn't apply to all hypercompetitive schools where the average GPA is 3.8 and there are 15 applicants per spot) to target your schools. Do note that this is not an exhaustive list and there are really new schools that don't have any data.

Applying isn't cheap, which is why you need to target. Pick 1-2 reach schools and 1-2+ brand new schools. You should probably get a job first, or move back home...or something, anything. Application + supplemental fees, travel, hotel, maybe you even need a new suit...all that adds up.


Also for academic forgiveness...that's kind of the secondary plan, so you retaking classes to average out your GPA is good, but it also serves a dual purpose by allowing you to use the "new" grade as your older grades start to fall off.

Since USN does a 5 year look back thing, assuming you graduated in 2012 from UCLA and your first class was fall quarter 2008, those won't fall off until December 2013. Winter & spring 2009 fall off by summer 2014. If you find yourself applying in 2014, all your gen chem and freshman bio courses will have "fallen off" so your strategy should be to retake classes at community college (if you want to do that vs. going into a master's) in chronological order that you took them in undergrad.

In that way, in fall 2014, you get to replace an entire year's worth of classes from your freshman year with classes you took recently. That'll give your GPA a huge boost. This assumes you don't get into a school in 2013, hence why it's a secondary "bonus" goal.

Anyway, glad you made it this far in this post, but going from 2.5 to 2.75 isn't that impressive. The goal should be to get you to the minimum GPA so they'll actually look at your application. What WILL be impressive is your "trend up" but this is subjective and based on who reviews you.

Bottom line, if I were in your shoes...
I would personally enroll in a master's program to start fall 2012, look for a pharmacy technician job for relevant experience, and squeeze in an additional remedial class at the local community college for fall and spring semesters.

Actually, I would enroll NOW in some random class if there's a 2nd half summer semester JUST so I could have a better registration window come fall.

If I had enough LOR's, I'd actually apply to 2-3 programs NOW. You have a good PCAT score, you have pretty much all the classes done... why not? If it's still $40...might as well do it and see what happens.

But I wouldn't expect much, so I'd bide my time and work/take classes/reapply in 2013...and 2014 if needed (using academic forgiveness). But, hey...by then, you'll have a master's, and if things don't work out, you can possibly parlay that into another rewarding career. I love back up plans, everyone should have one.

Good? Good. Goodluck.

 

[The Recoverer]

It's tough to say...including newer schools in your application mix would be prudent as their GPA requirements/average matriculating GPA's. Use PSAR Table 8 as a general guide to pick schools that match your stats (ie you probably shouldn't apply to all hypercompetitive schools where the average GPA is 3.8 and there are 15 applicants per spot) to target your schools. Do note that this is not an exhaustive list and there are really new schools that don't have any data.

Applying isn't cheap, which is why you need to target. Pick 1-2 reach schools and 1-2+ brand new schools. You should probably get a job first, or move back home...or something, anything. Application + supplemental fees, travel, hotel, maybe you even need a new suit...all that adds up.


Also for academic forgiveness...that's kind of the secondary plan, so you retaking classes to average out your GPA is good, but it also serves a dual purpose by allowing you to use the "new" grade as your older grades start to fall off.

Since USN does a 5 year look back thing, assuming you graduated in 2012 from UCLA and your first class was fall quarter 2008, those won't fall off until December 2013. Winter & spring 2009 fall off by summer 2014. If you find yourself applying in 2014, all your gen chem and freshman bio courses will have "fallen off" so your strategy should be to retake classes at community college (if you want to do that vs. going into a master's) in chronological order that you took them in undergrad.

In that way, in fall 2014, you get to replace an entire year's worth of classes from your freshman year with classes you took recently. That'll give your GPA a huge boost. This assumes you don't get into a school in 2013, hence why it's a secondary "bonus" goal.

Anyway, glad you made it this far in this post, but going from 2.5 to 2.75 isn't that impressive. The goal should be to get you to the minimum GPA so they'll actually look at your application. What WILL be impressive is your "trend up" but this is subjective and based on who reviews you.

Bottom line, if I were in your shoes...
I would personally enroll in a master's program to start fall 2012, look for a pharmacy technician job for relevant experience, and squeeze in an additional remedial class at the local community college for fall and spring semesters.

Actually, I would enroll NOW in some random class if there's a 2nd half summer semester JUST so I could have a better registration window come fall.

If I had enough LOR's, I'd actually apply to 2-3 programs NOW. You have a good PCAT score, you have pretty much all the classes done... why not? If it's still $40...might as well do it and see what happens.

But I wouldn't expect much, so I'd bide my time and work/take classes/reapply in 2013...and 2014 if needed (using academic forgiveness). But, hey...by then, you'll have a master's, and if things don't work out, you can possibly parlay that into another rewarding career. I love back up plans, everyone should have one.

Good? Good. Goodluck.

dang, burrito cat pretty much just summed up my life in a post. kudos

 

[mbpuffer]

It's tough to say...including newer schools in your application mix would be prudent as their GPA requirements/average matriculating GPA's. Use PSAR Table 8 as a general guide to pick schools that match your stats (ie you probably shouldn't apply to all hypercompetitive schools where the average GPA is 3.8 and there are 15 applicants per spot) to target your schools. Do note that this is not an exhaustive list and there are really new schools that don't have any data.

Applying isn't cheap, which is why you need to target. Pick 1-2 reach schools and 1-2+ brand new schools. You should probably get a job first, or move back home...or something, anything. Application + supplemental fees, travel, hotel, maybe you even need a new suit...all that adds up.


Also for academic forgiveness...that's kind of the secondary plan, so you retaking classes to average out your GPA is good, but it also serves a dual purpose by allowing you to use the "new" grade as your older grades start to fall off.

Since USN does a 5 year look back thing, assuming you graduated in 2012 from UCLA and your first class was fall quarter 2008, those won't fall off until December 2013. Winter & spring 2009 fall off by summer 2014. If you find yourself applying in 2014, all your gen chem and freshman bio courses will have "fallen off" so your strategy should be to retake classes at community college (if you want to do that vs. going into a master's) in chronological order that you took them in undergrad.

In that way, in fall 2014, you get to replace an entire year's worth of classes from your freshman year with classes you took recently. That'll give your GPA a huge boost. This assumes you don't get into a school in 2013, hence why it's a secondary "bonus" goal.

Anyway, glad you made it this far in this post, but going from 2.5 to 2.75 isn't that impressive. The goal should be to get you to the minimum GPA so they'll actually look at your application. What WILL be impressive is your "trend up" but this is subjective and based on who reviews you.

Bottom line, if I were in your shoes...
I would personally enroll in a master's program to start fall 2012, look for a pharmacy technician job for relevant experience, and squeeze in an additional remedial class at the local community college for fall and spring semesters.

Actually, I would enroll NOW in some random class if there's a 2nd half summer semester JUST so I could have a better registration window come fall.

If I had enough LOR's, I'd actually apply to 2-3 programs NOW. You have a good PCAT score, you have pretty much all the classes done... why not? If it's still $40...might as well do it and see what happens.

But I wouldn't expect much, so I'd bide my time and work/take classes/reapply in 2013...and 2014 if needed (using academic forgiveness). But, hey...by then, you'll have a master's, and if things don't work out, you can possibly parlay that into another rewarding career. I love back up plans, everyone should have one.

Good? Good. Goodluck.

Great explanation and planning laid out, confettiflyer. That's pretty much what I did since I didn't graduate with a competitive GPA.

 

[brwnricecracker]

ein the corgi,

Your PCAT scores are hot...My cumulative science GPA was around a 2.9 but my PCAT scores sunk. I know why, too. I graduated with a BS in Chemistry and I have to admit I forgot most of what I learned. It's really sad. When people ask me what I majored it I don't say BS in Chemistry because BS sounds like... "b.s." and since it's true I avoid saying it (lmvl). TOTALLY off-topic but yes, forge on, send in a personal statement if you can as well.

confettiflyer,

Back-up plans... they make me cry and smile at the same time. I've been through my share of back-up plans. I never wish to fall back on my back-up plan because that means by initial plan foiled. It makes me depressed. I never want to think of back-up plans because it tells me I'm going to fail and I hate that. It's foolish, I know. Ugh! But it kills my pride!

 

[scienceguy13]

As an aside, the median GPA for MIMG at UCLA was about 2.9. So our OP was average in a highly competitive major at a hypercompetitive school that only takes like 10% of the students who apply, which makes them pretty smart (before y'all jump all over him or her).

So I never really understood this. Students from schools like this are always saying "well I have a low GPA but that's just because I go to this school". I mean, aren't you learning all the same basic things as students at other universities? We all have tough professors too. I don't think you can use the excuse that it's competitive; you're the one earning your grades.

 

[474671]

So I never really understood this. Students from schools like this are always saying "well I have a low GPA but that's just because I go to this school". I mean, aren't you learning all the same basic things as students at other universities? We all have tough professors too. I don't think you can use the excuse that it's competitive; you're the one earning your grades.

I am not familiar with the OPs school but competitiveness can matter in a class where they alter the scores based on how everyone else does, rather than hard lines... My biostats professor down scaled the class. He set the test average as a C. The problem with that was that the test average was a 82. The way he did the math, a D spanned for like 30 points, and 45% of the class wound up with a C- overall with averages spanning from a 73-81. (With his class 40% landed within ten points of the average but were below it, 15% were below that, 35% were at average or within 5 points higher, and 10% were above that.

 

[ein the corgi]

So I never really understood this. Students from schools like this are always saying "well I have a low GPA but that's just because I go to this school". I mean, aren't you learning all the same basic things as students at other universities? We all have tough professors too. I don't think you can use the excuse that it's competitive; you're the one earning your grades.

Hi scienceguy13,
If there is one thing I've learned from being in UCLA and talking to my peers who went to say, SJSU, or UCSC, is that what you accomplish is up to you, the individual. I never used my school as an excuse, but just for background. Another poster just cited the mean avg for my major to help prevent the trolls from ragging on me as a *******, which I appreciate. I have peers that got straight A's at UCLA so I know that it's possible, I just didn't rise up to the challenge. I said that UCLA was competitive not as an excuse for my low grades, but as a reason as to why I got so down on myself, which led me to not try as hard as I needed to to get those A's. Because at that point, I felt like I was so far below the "average" student at LA that it was not worth it to try and bring myself up. Anyways, thank you all for the advice and good luck on your future endeavors.

 

[ein the corgi]

Oh and scienceguy13, you make a good, valid point that every school is competitive so you make the grade you want. I completely agree with that statement. Especially in professional schools that we are all aspiring to be at, it will be even more competitive. That was something I wasn't prepared for and I never recovered during my undergrad, but looking to the future.."Hey, it was a good learning experience." Good luck to you.

 

[scienceguy13]

Oh and scienceguy13, you make a good, valid point that every school is competitive so you make the grade you want. I completely agree with that statement. Especially in professional schools that we are all aspiring to be at, it will be even more competitive. That was something I wasn't prepared for and I never recovered during my undergrad, but looking to the future.."Hey, it was a good learning experience." Good luck to you.

And good luck to you too. I didn't mean to tear you down or anything, really just curious more than anything else.

 

[confettiflyer]

So I never really understood this. Students from schools like this are always saying "well I have a low GPA but that's just because I go to this school". I mean, aren't you learning all the same basic things as students at other universities? We all have tough professors too. I don't think you can use the excuse that it's competitive; you're the one earning your grades.

There have been published reports of grade inflation at many universities, it's a pretty hot topic in academia. Conversely, grade depression does exist and UCLA does publish mean GPA data by school/major like many other schools, so it's easy to compare. MIMG is a subspecialty major (microbiology, immunology, molecular genetics) and doesn't necessarily cover the same classes/topics as a general biology major.

Short version: MIMG has a reputation of getting your ass ripped apart, whereas the general biology major is just plain normal competitive. To answer your question, yes, it's a valid excuse and understood by most people who deal with/hire UCLA grads.

 

[scienceguy13]

There have been published reports of grade inflation at many universities, it's a pretty hot topic in academia. Conversely, grade depression does exist and UCLA does publish mean GPA data by school/major like many other schools, so it's easy to compare. MIMG is a subspecialty major (microbiology, immunology, molecular genetics) and doesn't necessarily cover the same classes/topics as a general biology major.

Short version: MIMG has a reputation of getting your ass ripped apart, whereas the general biology major is just plain normal competitive. To answer your question, yes, it's a valid excuse and understood by most people who deal with/hire UCLA grads.

Hmm, interesting, that's basically what I'm majoring in at my university. I'm pretty sure the average GPA's for those that make it through are not that low though. And I feel like there really isn't too much grade inflation because people always seem to do well on standardized tests for professional or graduate schools. I guess I just don't understand how grade depression works, unless the university says only the top 35% can get A's or something. I had one or two classes that worked that way, definitely a pain.

 

[confettiflyer]

I guess I just don't understand how grade depression works, unless the university says only the top 35% can get A's or something. I had one or two classes that worked that way, definitely a pain.

My university was like that (sister school to UCLA basically). The top 17% of the class would get A's -- that's IT. Standard bell curve, 17-34-34-17. So, you could theoretically get 93% raw on an exam but if 17% of the class did better than you, you'd get a B+.

This also resulted in chapters being torn out of the textbooks on reserve at the library and people purposefully giving wrong information out to classmates in order to keep you from the top 17%