recommendation writer can only write three

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biscuitsbiscuits

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I'm applying to doctoral programs this fall and I just heard from one of my key LOR writers that he is only willing to send three letters for me. He said that this semester has been busier than he had anticipated and he just can't send any more.

We actually discussed the letters last spring and he seemed enthusiastic about it, but he's very set on this now. I tried to discuss ways to make it easier for him, but he is solidly on three only. So I will have to respect that.

This is kind of an unexpected blow, especially because I am ten years out of my master's and 13 years out of my BA. He was my only academic reference- I'm not in contact with anyone else. I'm pretty sure this means I can apply to only three programs now.

I am... extremely bummed.

Does this happen often? And to those who have written letters: is the process such that additional letters require significant extra time? I understand from him that it must, but I've never been on the writing side of this so I don't know. All of the schools I'm applying to request that letters be sent electronically.

I'm mostly commiserating here because the answers to the above won't change anything for me. It is what it is. 🙁 Anyone else have this happen?
 
I've never heard of someone saying that, especially given the limitations of programs due to competitiveness. It would make more sense to me if he was not in academics and didn't understand the competitiveness; however, even then.... it seems as though it would be easy to use the same letter (with changed headers) to send in to other schools.

I cant help but wonder where he came up with 3.
 
So it is odd, then? It seemed strange to me because they're just electronic uploads, but I didn't want to assume because I'd never been in his shoes.

Four of them are not due until March 1! I don't get it.

I've wondered if maybe I did/said something wrong? I can't figure this out and I can't ask him about it again. It's very frustrating and confusing.
 
Yeah this is very odd, once he has one letter, it doesn't take much effort to submit the rest, maybe 5 minutes of his time per letter. I worry knowing this that the letters he did agree to submit won't be very strong any way. I can't imagine doing this to a student - I'd much rather say I can't do it, then tell them I'll only do it half-ass. So I wonder if there is some passive-aggressiveness on his part sending the "I don't want to write your letter" vibes without actually telling you no.

Why can't you talk to him again? I'd actually be straight up and ask him that you are worried he isn't in a position to write a strong letter for you and if this is true, you would rather find out now.
 
biscuitsbiscuits said:
So it is odd, then? It seemed strange to me because they're just electronic uploads, but I didn't want to assume because I'd never been in his shoes.

Four of them are not due until March 1! I don't get it.

I've wondered if maybe I did/said something wrong? I can't figure this out and I can't ask him about it again. It's very frustrating and confusing.
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Agree with @Justanothergrad and @psycscientist and @entitlement.

Many times, I have been asked to prepare multiple LORs (greater than 10 LORS) for students, graduates, residents, fellows, colleagues, etc. In this ubiquitous electronic age, it's simple and straightforward: I simply change each addressee's name and send the same LOR to each addressee. In fact, many times, the LORs are submitted online.

Seriously, if I agree to prepare a LOR on behalf of an individual, it is *because* I am fully prepared to compose a LOR that is 100% positive and strong for the individual. Otherwise, I would not agree to prepare a LOR.

With that in mind, are you confident this particular letter writer is truly prepared to provide you with a strong LOR?
 
entitlement said:
Yeah this is very odd, once he has one letter, it doesn't take much effort to submit the rest, maybe 5 minutes of his time per letter. I worry knowing this that the letters he did agree to submit won't be very strong any way. I can't imagine doing this to a student - I'd much rather say I can't do it, then tell them I'll only do it half-ass. So I wonder if there is some passive-aggressiveness on his part sending the "I don't want to write your letter" vibes without actually telling you no.

Why can't you talk to him again? I'd actually be straight up and ask him that you are worried he isn't in a position to write a strong letter for you and if this is true, you would rather find out now.
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These were my concerns as well. Truly, he seemed very enthusiastic about this up until a week ago when he said that he was just too busy and he could only provide three. This was in the same email that he gave me some positive feedback on my personal statement. I was confused and dismayed and tried to very gently ask him to reconsider, or to submit five (I'm applying to nine). I didn't hear from him for a week. Today, I called him. He was very firm. Three.

I feel like I can't bring it up again because I made two attempts and it would just be badgering him at this point.

I have been thinking this over so much and I can't figure out what happened between then and now. Did I say/do something? I have no idea. This is just so strange and disappointing.
 
I wonder if you could ask him to address two letters to specific programs (and, of course, choose your favorites), and request the third letter be addressed to "Dear Selection Committee," if he doesn't oppose you scanning/copying and sending to the other 7 programs yourself. Often times, this is not acceptable, but perhaps you could mention in those 7 programs' cover letters that "Due to unforeseen circumstances, one recommender requested an 'original copy' be directed to the admissions departments on my [the student's] behalf."

I had a somewhat similar situation: My LOR writer went on medical leave (for cancer treatment), but beforehand, emailed me the letter, and gave me authorization to submit with my applications on her behalf. These were for postdoc applications. Her original letter was very favorable, and everything was so unexpected (I'm happy to say she is doing well, but it was a very grave time).

What do others think? Specifically, those on selection committees? Would it be a poor reflection on the applicant, or just a poor reflection on the letter writer? Hoping the latter.

A major problem lies with not being able to get interviews, if your application is not complete (i.e., if you don't have your 3 requested LOR, then the application packet is not complete and does not get forwarded from the Graduate Offices of the Universities to the Departments of Psychology, at most places... meaning they won't even review an incomplete packet).

Sorry to hear this, @biscuitsbiscuits.

I usually adhere to non-violence, but this makes me wanna smack that one letter writer. :slap:
 
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First, I think it is extremely important to remember that this person is doing you a huge favor. It is in your own best interest to handle this as delicately as possible.

Second, it sounds like this person is drafting recommendation letters unique to each program. This is awesome. Asking to create a generic letter may be a great compromise.

Third, I would offer something to help. For example, "I know I put a lot of extra work on your plate by asking you to write these letters. Can I do something to help ease the load like doing some clerical work for you while you do the letters?"
 
I did the clerical work recommendation that PSYDR's suggesting, especially for one of my recommenders. I went to his office, he dictated the letter, I typed it up/printed on his letterhead, got his signature, stuffed them in the pre-addressed, stamped envelopes and put in his dept mailbox. (And for this one person, I did this twice! For masters apps, and doctoral apps). Oh, this pre-dated electronic uploads, but I would've figured that out, too. If he's not in the same proximity, you'll have to get creative...maybe go old-school and ask the grad office, if you can mail in hardcopies, and then FedEx pre-addressed/stamped envelopes for each program, in one big, neat packet.

I agree. It is delicate so if you can offer to bend over backwards, it may help.

Good luck!:luck:
 
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It's more of a pain to write letters when so many programs have their own little forms and such that need to be sent in along with a letter. I wish programs would just take a single letter instead of asking for a million little checkboxes.

That being said, I know I'm signing up for checking off a million little boxes when I agree to write a letter, so OP's frustration is reasonable. I agree with PSYDR on how to handle.
 
There is some great advice here and possibilities I hadn't thought of. Thank you all!

It is very delicate indeed. I feel like if I make any additional appeals at this point, I would risk annoying him and losing those three. It was clear from our phone conversation that he didn't want to talk about it anymore and I really don't know where this change in tone came from. We haven't had that many interactions in that time and I can't place it. It is possible that he is experiencing personal difficulties and that this has nothing to do with me. But without knowing what's going on, it's very hard to know how to proceed.

When I responded to his email about only being able to write three letters, I opened with "I understand that you are very busy during the semester and are probably pulled in many directions. I am grateful to have even one letter, so I do not intend to sound demanding. But I actually don't have another academic reference and I was hoping to see if there was a way that we could break it down so it does not take too much time for you. If this still seems like too much, please tell me and I will understand."

I went on to ask whether it would be feasible to send the same electronic letter to five schools between December-January and then to check back in next winter to see if his workload would allow sending that same letter to the four that are due in March. He didn't respond to that email and when I called him, he was very firmly still at three.

Maybe I didn't handle it well. I really can't tell and it's upsetting to me. I might try what CheetahGirl and PSYDR suggested and offer to take some work off of his plate, but I worry about offering something like that because the only work I could do for him at the moment would have to be from home because of where I live. I'm not sure how much help that would be. And I am wary because he really doesn't seem to be open to discussing it any further.
 
I hope that when folks are suggesting doing some "clerical work" in exchange for the letter, you all mean clerical work related to writing these letters, right? Because if not, how is that any different than offering money/goods in exchange for your rec letter and how many ethical principles are being broken here. Just want to make that perfectly clear because no one should be doing any extra work, paying money, or giving goods in exchange for that letter.

Another option is that a lot of universities now have systems in place to "bank" your recommendation letter. So in other words, all they need to do is write one letter, submit to that department, and they will take care of "personalizing" that letter for all requesters. Also, Interfolio and other web services will also allow you to do this (but these will cost you $$$). May be worth it to pay for a subscription or however they work, for this one letter writer. However, I would still make sure he is able to write a strong letter.
 
Sorry, just noticed your post - do not do extra work that has nothing to do with that letter in order to "earn" that letter. The letter should have been earned already. It would be highly unethical on that rec letter writer's part to agree to do this.

Look to see if the university your letter writer is affiliated with has such a service. Its pretty amazing and saves ton of time. My students just fill out a request, the folks at this service sends me an email asking for a generic letter, and then the rec letter writing service takes care of the rest.

Looked into Interfolio and it sounds like the service is only available for applications through Interfolio (wish all my job search apps were through here!), so that won't be helpful.
 
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I just looked into Interfolio (thank you entitlement!)- the "dossier" service would bank these letters and cost $19 (unless there are additional fees). Totally worth it and more if it could solve this problem.

Does anyone have any experience with a service like this? Would an admissions committee look unfavorably on using this system?
 
Good points @psycscientist but from my understanding, the university ref letter services actually have rec letter writers fill out standard forms that are asked by most grad/med school programs. The service then uses those responses to fill in any cover sheets that are needed with the rec letter. However, there is always that odd program that has a weird requirement, so definitely something to take into consideration. Great service if your university has it, but yeah, not going to be 100% helpful in this case.
 
Just to give everyone an update, I actually ended up looking into Interfolio a little further. It's really a hail mary for me at this point because I don't think I can make another appeal for more letters, nor do I have any other academic references because of how long it has been. But I've been working so hard on this goal and it is so long in the making that I have a hard time accepting this and moving on. At the same time, I have to respect my professor's wishes.

I actually contacted each school I'd like to apply to, told them about the situation (my professor has unexpected circumstances and very limited ability to write letters) and asked whether they would accept letters through Interfolio. Of the five I've been able to reach, three said yes.

I'm still concerned about the additional questions that seem to appear on the individual school forms. I don't know how they would handle this. My biggest worry is that it will turn out to be even more difficult doing it this way. But I really can't think of another option other than just choosing the top three and crossing my fingers. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

And if there's anyone out there who has actually used Interfolio for grad school applications, I would love to hear about how that went.
 
I really don't mean to be a jerk here, so I apologize if it comes off that way. However, what is more concerning to me is the fact that you only have one academic letter writer and you have been out of the programs for many many years (and a lot has changed since that time). When did you work with this person? Was it in the last year? Does he know you from your previous coursework 10 years ago? I remember someone tried to contact me to write a letter of recommendation several years after I had stopped working with them. I had absolutely nothing to say about them, mostly because I barely knew them in the first place and so much had changed since our initial interactions. What type of a program are you looking to go to? What have you been doing since you finished school? Do you have recent research experience? I ask this information because , in my own opinion, it will be very challenging to be considered for a PhD program with only one academic letter writer/having been out of the field for many years without an academic tie-in.
 
FionaGoode said:
I really don't mean to be a jerk here, so I apologize if it comes off that way. However, what is more concerning to me is the fact that you only have one academic letter writer and you have been out of the programs for many many years (and a lot has changed since that time). When did you work with this person? Was it in the last year? Does he know you from your previous coursework 10 years ago? I remember someone tried to contact me to write a letter of recommendation several years after I had stopped working with them. I had absolutely nothing to say about them, mostly because I barely knew them in the first place and so much had changed since our initial interactions. What type of a program are you looking to go to? What have you been doing since you finished school? Do you have recent research experience? I ask this information because , in my own opinion, it will be very challenging to be considered for a PhD program with only one academic letter writer/having been out of the field for many years without an academic tie-in.
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I understand your concerns and the expectations of doctoral applicants. I've been working in research in varying capacities over the last decade. I'm "non-traditional," but I hope my experience and education will be the right fit for one of the programs I'm applying to.
 
biscuitsbiscuits said:
So... Turns out he had confused me with another student, which explains the abrupt change in tone. Phew! I was really sweating it there for a couple of weeks. thanks for hanging with me, sdn!
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Uh...

Do NOT use this person's letter. They are either dementing, or do not know you well enough to write a letter of rec that would really be worth anything.
 
As Erg said, that confuses me/concerns me as well. It also continues to confuse me why he would only have time for 3 letters for one person and more for you. If you are sure he can write a good letter about YOU and if there are no other options to find another one, I would use him. But be very aware of potential problems.
 
erg923 said:
Uh...

Do NOT use this person's letter. They are either dementing, or do not know you well enough to write a letter of rec that would really be worth anything.
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I hear you, honestly, and yes he is older (and this was an email exchange), but he had already written it while I was a student...it's a long story. I know it's not the best but my other two letters are more solid. It's a result of being out of school and working for so long. If it holds me back this round I'll take some classes and try to get a more recent reference for next time.
 
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As an aside, I think this culture of not letting people see their own letter in psych, and academia in general, is pointless and stupid. What's the intended purpose of doing that? It seems completely nonsensical to me. I show all of my students their letters for grad school apps, internships, awards, etc. I need feedback from them to make sure the letters are on-message.
 
Justanothergrad said:
As Erg said, that confuses me/concerns me as well. It also continues to confuse me why he would only have time for 3 letters for one person and more for you. If you are sure he can write a good letter about YOU and if there are no other options to find another one, I would use him. But be very aware of potential problems.
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The 3 letter thing is still odd, I agree. But it's all I've got in terms of an academic reference, so I'm going to have to take the chance.
 
Letter writing is a necessary and expected part of being a faculty member. His decision to impose arbitrary limits on some person's ability to apply to programs means he is either ignorant of the current process or a poor communicator. Neither of these are characteristics one wants in a letter writer. Please reconsider your decision here. Letters need to be tailored, both to the person and to the information programs need to know.

If you don't feel strongly about an applicant, just don't write one. ****ing with people about it is just dumb. I would suspect of this person and would not take the chance that he could subtly (or not so subtly?) sink/sabotage you here.
 
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MCParent said:
As an aside, I think this culture of not letting people see their own letter in psych, and academia in general, is pointless and stupid. What's the intended purpose of doing that? It seems completely nonsensical to me. I show all of my students their letters for grad school apps, internships, awards, etc. I need feedback from them to make sure the letters are on-message.
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I can understand independent submission (i.e. the applicant can't be the one submitting it) in an attempt to avoid tampering (I have zero confidence it actually achieves that purpose, but I can see how a committee would agree to it), but agree fully that it seems odd when people act like they are top-secret. There does seem to be a fair amount of misunderstanding with regards to the legalese of application materials. Signing off that you will not demand the admissions department release your letters to you is NOT synonymous with agreeing that you have never viewed the contents of the letter.

The most ironic part is once you get into grad school (and especially the professional world) you will more than likely be writing almost ALL the letters yourself and giving to others to sign. Certainly every award/grant in grad school and since then I wrote my own letters. I think I only wrote one of my internship letters (though reviewed another), but most of my post-doc letters. Now that I'm faculty, I just assume I'll have to write it myself unless told otherwise. Obviously they are free to change as they see fit, but the whole process is fairly ridiculous.
 
Ollie123 said:
I can understand independent submission (i.e. the applicant can't be the one submitting it) in an attempt to avoid tampering (I have zero confidence it actually achieves that purpose, but I can see how a committee would agree to it), but agree fully that it seems odd when people act like they are top-secret. There does seem to be a fair amount of misunderstanding with regards to the legalese of application materials. Signing off that you will not demand the admissions department release your letters to you is NOT synonymous with agreeing that you have never viewed the contents of the letter.

The most ironic part is once you get into grad school (and especially the professional world) you will more than likely be writing almost ALL the letters yourself and giving to others to sign. Certainly every award/grant in grad school and since then I wrote my own letters. I think I only wrote one of my internship letters (though reviewed another), but most of my post-doc letters. Now that I'm faculty, I just assume I'll have to write it myself unless told otherwise. Obviously they are free to change as they see fit, but the whole process is fairly ridiculous.
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That's incredible- I've never written even one of my reference letters. A few have asked me what things I'd like added, many more have asked for my edits after it's written, and I've seen almost all of my letters- but never have I had anyone make me write it. I'm just commented because I must have had an unusual grad school/post doc experience. TIL
 
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