Recommended # Practicum Hours

[korio1990]

My Psy.D. program requires 1900 hours for our practicum placements before we apply for our predoctoral internship. I also have the option to do elective practicum placements. I would love to do them for roughly 2 extra semesters, but they would be an extra $2,100-$2,300 in loans per course each semester that I'd do the elective practicum. Right now, I am looking at a total of $15,000-$20,000 debt right now for my total loan amount for the program due to funding. Would it be worth it to take out 1-2 extra semesters of practicum (an extra $4500 to $5000 in loans) to bump me to the roughly 2150 (if i did one extra semester) to 2400 (if I did 2 extra semesters) range?

I do not want to take out extra loans if it isn't necessary, but I would like to maximize my ultimate predoctoral internship and career prospects.

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[cara susanna]

1900? I matched with barely 1000.

 

[haRtwin]

1900 hours seems like a lot already

 

[korio1990]

Thank you for your feedback. It helps to get a frame of reference. If 1900 is already good, then it doesn't seem worth it to take our 1-2 elective practicums to bump up hours, then? How many direct client hours is generally recommended?

 

[smalltownpsych]

I am thinking that this is one more cost of the internship shortage/student surplus - practicum hours inflation.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I am thinking that this is one more cost of the internship shortage/student surplus - practicum hours inflation.

It definitely has been of late in the last couple rounds of internship applications I've reviewed. And it's also why at least the folks I know who review applications have started shifting more toward looking at the quality and diversity of the hours (gauged by the person's essay responses, how they respond to interview questions regarding their training and processes of conceptualization, etc.) rather than the quantity of hours.

To the OP: I wouldn't take extra practica just for the sake of gaining extra hours. However, if those extra practica will provide you with unique training opportunities (e.g., with novel populations and/or in novel settings), particularly if said opportunities directly relate to your ultimate career goals, then I'd say they would be worthwhile.

 

[korio1990]

smalltownpsych- I agree. The shortage of internship spots compared to the # of psychology students admitted is a disgrace to our profession, particularly many grad students who have sacrificed a lot of time and money to become a psychologist. To partially solve the problem, I wish schools- in particular, Psy.D. programs (and I am from a smaller university-based Psy.D. program)- would admit less applicants.

AcronymAllergy- Thanks for your insight. It is really helpful to hear that. Just knowing about the competitive nature of APPIC has resulted in me stressing about the number of hours that I have. I just want to make sure that I'm not markedly behind the average # of hours, which would put me at an immediate disadvantage. Also, you made a great point about the value of the extra practica. I wouldn't want to do them just to accrue hours, but, rather, engage in meaningful training related to my ultimate career goals.

Thanks! I really appreciate the feedback.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I can say that at least from my perspective, the actual number of hours a person has (assuming they're not severely out of proportion, either very low or very high) is of minimal importance when I'm reviewing an application, assuming they've met whatever minimum requirements the site might have. Also, I took into account things like the ratio of supervision hours (individual and group) to claimed hours of practicum, and as smalltownpsych mentioned, there definitely seems to be a trend toward inflation of reported hours (both genuinely and disingenuously, I'm sure).

The application as a whole is the important part, and things should be balanced and in proportion to one another.

 

[WisNeuro]

To be honest, when I see a ridiculous number of hours reported, it's usually a red flag. The rest of the application is generally wholly lacking in breadth. You should be spending time to be well-rounded, not to see how many hours you can report.

 

[G Costanza]

Are those contact hours or total practicum hours? With 1900 contact hours, how does one have time to do anything else? That's two years of full time practice.

 

[PsychBoxe]

I have the same question as G Costanza. There is a different between contact hours and total on-site hours during practica. 1900 sounds more like total hours, rather than contact hours. I just want to make sure the OP is aware of this distinction to avoid incorrectly documenting hours on the application.

 

[cara susanna]

I had barely over 1000 total prac hours.

 

[psychgirl77]

I had barely over 1000 total prac hours.

What did your direct hours look like cara susanna? Just wondering because I have an abundance of assessment hours with way fewer therapy hours, but am not sure if that's going to be an issue.

 

[cara susanna]

I had 350 intervention and 150 assessment hours. I did apply to more research-y sites that didn't care as much about hours, but I ended up matching at a research-friendly (not research-oriented), APA-accredited VA.

 

[Psychwomen]

Are those contact hours or total practicum hours? With 1900 contact hours, how does one have time to do anything else? That's two years of full time practice.

I have the same question. I'll be applying for internship in the fall and it looks like I will have slightly over 750 hours face to face. I'm getting worried now, that I should have more than that...what's the average number of face to face hours?

 

[futureapppsy2]

I have the strong impression that hours are much more about meeting cutoffs and then have quickly diminishing returns after that. A program that has students focus on that many hours is probably taking their students away from other activities, like publications and dissertation progress, that could really help their application a lot more than another 200 (for example) prac hours would.

 

[psychgirl77]

I had 350 intervention and 150 assessment hours. I did apply to more research-y sites that didn't care as much about hours, but I ended up matching at a research-friendly (not research-oriented), APA-accredited VA.

Thanks, mine are similar but in the other direction. I've got about 430 assessment and 175 intervention hours. I had some back luck with having a couple of therapy clients terminate after their first sessions and haven't gotten enough other clients to make up for it. Glad to hear it all worked out for you cara susanna!

Sorry for hijacking the OP's thread.

 

[korio1990]

It is 1900 total practicum hours. They recommend our total contact hours to be at least at the 500 mark--ideally higher.

In addition, I have been focusing on other aspects of my application to add breadth. I have leadership positions, have a part-time job to make ends meet, volunteer, & am involved in research. Focusing on hours is not my major focus, but I just wanted to make sure that 1900 is competitive.

 

[cara susanna]

Just to put this into perspective, internship training year involves around 2,000 total hours. 1,900 is only 100 less than that.

I hate what the imbalance does to applicants. I know how you all feel and I remember feeling that way myself. It sucks. But hours are just one small part of the equation. They get your app looked at, but that's about it.

 

[G Costanza]

I have not reviewed internship apps but I think evaluators care more about the contact hours rather than the total (assuming there is a normal ratio of contact to total). So instead of thinking of 1900, I'd be focusing more on getting quailty contact hours...if you still need any.

 

[korio1990]

@cara susanna- Very true. I definitely value work-life balance, but it's so hard to practice what I preach when our field seems so competitive. @G Costanza- that's good to know, also. thanks.

 

[cara susanna]

No, I totally understand. The internship app process makes you crazy. Just remember that you don't need a bazillion hours to match, because you don't. Once you clear 500 F2F, I wouldn't worry about that part anymore. There is plenty of other stuff to stress out about.

 

[futureapppsy2]

No, I totally understand. The internship app process makes you crazy. Just remember that you don't need a bazillion hours to match, because you don't. Once you clear 500 F2F, I wouldn't worry about that part anymore. There is plenty of other stuff to stress out about.

Exactly. Hours will only get you so far. It's akin to "don't sacrifice a research publication to move from a 1400 GRE to a 1450." It's just not the best use of time.

 

[erg923]

I think I had 850 contact. 1800 total.

 

[ariagirlno1]

I am also interested in this question--my program recommends at least 700-800 intervention/assessment hours by October 1 of the cycle in which you plan to apply. On the other hand, the programs I apply to seem to require 500 intervention hours (although some require 600), so I am tempted to apply if I clear 500 intervention hours (which I may be able to do). My comparatively low number is due to the fact that I have mostly individual hours (vs. groups), although luckily I have the opportunity to run groups this year. I have a good number of integrated batteries and have worked in a variety of settings, so I think these factors bolster my application. Any advice/other things I should consider?

 

[Ollie123]

Most sites don't care even slightly about "total hours" - they are largely irrelevant to the discussion. Face to face hours matter and supervision hours matter. Support hours are extremely rough guesstimates by most people and I can't imagine why sites would care how much time you spent writing progress notes anyways.

I had about 900 F2F coming from a research-heavy program, but had also stuck around longer than typical so that helps explain why. I had around 450 hours of supervision so the ratio there is pretty good, which i think also helped. I can only speak to research-heavy places, but the general consensus seemed to be that I had significantly more hours than was expected or necessary. Clinical-heavy sites may (or may not) feel differently.

 

[WisNeuro]

Many VA's have a minimum cutoff of around 500 F2F hours, though most applicants are well above the cutoff. After this, the raw numbers don't matter as much as the quality and breadth of the hours gained. If you did 200 hours at a well-known placement site with known quality supervisors, you will get more "points" than someone who did a ridiculous amount of hours at an unknown site. We like known quantities.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I am also interested in this question--my program recommends at least 700-800 intervention/assessment hours by October 1 of the cycle in which you plan to apply. On the other hand, the programs I apply to seem to require 500 intervention hours (although some require 600), so I am tempted to apply if I clear 500 intervention hours (which I may be able to do). My comparatively low number is due to the fact that I have mostly individual hours (vs. groups), although luckily I have the opportunity to run groups this year. I have a good number of integrated batteries and have worked in a variety of settings, so I think these factors bolster my application. Any advice/other things I should consider?

Not that you were implying this, but just to clear up any possible misconceptions--when counting group hours, you use just the running time of the group, not the running time multiplied by the number of attendees (e.g., if you run a 1-hour group with 10 participants, you'd still only count 1 hour of contact time rather than 10 hours).

And I say if you clear the minimum required, sure, go ahead and apply (assuming your DCT will approve your application). If you have fewer hours relative to many other applicants, sites will just want to see that other areas of your training indicate you've spent your time appropriately (e.g., teaching and research engagements and products, etc.). Also, the more progress you can make on your dissertation prior to interviewing, the better.

 

[PsyDr]

I had one interviewer tell me I had too many hours.

 

[ariagirlno1]

Not that you were implying this, but just to clear up any possible misconceptions--when counting group hours, you use just the running time of the group, not the running time multiplied by the number of attendees (e.g., if you run a 1-hour group with 10 participants, you'd still only count 1 hour of contact time rather than 10 hours).

And I say if you clear the minimum required, sure, go ahead and apply (assuming your DCT will approve your application). If you have fewer hours relative to many other applicants, sites will just want to see that other areas of your training indicate you've spent your time appropriately (e.g., teaching and research engagements and products, etc.). Also, the more progress you can make on your dissertation prior to interviewing, the better.

Thanks for clarifying--I know of some people (luckily not classmates) who count their hours by multiplying, which is quite frustrating...

 

[WisNeuro]

Thanks for clarifying--I know of some people (luckily not classmates) who count their hours by multiplying, which is quite frustrating...

Tsk tsk, this is clearly reporting fraud. If they get called out somehow it will sink their apps. Also, if someone has an ungodly amount of group hours, it usually looks fishy anyway, so they may be doing themselves a disservice to begin with even if they don't get caught.

 

[463951]

I am also interested in this question--my program recommends at least 700-800 intervention/assessment hours by October 1 of the cycle in which you plan to apply. On the other hand, the programs I apply to seem to require 500 intervention hours (although some require 600), so I am tempted to apply if I clear 500 intervention hours (which I may be able to do). My comparatively low number is due to the fact that I have mostly individual hours (vs. groups), although luckily I have the opportunity to run groups this year. I have a good number of integrated batteries and have worked in a variety of settings, so I think these factors bolster my application. Any advice/other things I should consider?

I had about 450 intervention hours and 200 assessment hours when I applied last year. Some sites I applied to required 500 intervention hours. I went ahead and applied to these sites and got interviews. I am sure it did help that I was doing a practicum while applying, accruing more hours and experience, although the hours after November 1st don't count, the training you are receiving is important. Like what you were saying about running groups this upcoming year, you will be able to talk about your experience running groups at your interviews. Unless a site's brochure explicitly tells you that they adhere to the strict minimums, I would go ahead and apply. There is a section on the AAPI where you can explain how many hours you expect to accrue during the year, and what kind of training you are obtaining. Also, I agree with @Ollie123 that "total hours" are not important. I couldn't even tell you how many total hours I had, because nobody cared.

 

[erg923]

How can a program require a "total" amount of hours anyway since there is obvious variability between how long people take to write notes, chart review, write reports, do case mangement, etc. I can understand requiring a certain number of face-to face (my program generaly aimed to have people between 500-800 with minimum one hour per week of individual and group supervision), but not "total hours?"

 

[EmotRegulation]

Some programs are even looking at other kinds of algorithms to get beyond the raw/sheer number of hours. I know of at least one internship that looks at the ratio of face to face hours with supervision hours, for example. My understanding is that they are concerned about people who have a large number of hours with minimal supervision, as that doesn't suggest good training. No idea how many places are doing that these days, just pointing out other methods.

 

[Terri Dactyl]

The most important aspect of hours is direct contact (e.g., assessment and intervention) and supervision; and our school also looked at the ratio of direct contact with supervision. I've heard that some local psychology schools are requiring students to participate in an advanced practicum in order to be more competitive when applying for internships. Our school only encouraged us to apply for an advanced. So if you have less than what your program is asking for, I would check to see how your hours are divided between direct contact, supervision, and support.

When I applied last year I had apx. 2250 total hours (850 dx, 950 thx, and 450 adv. thx that was in progress), and with more than half as direct-contact. I found the only benefit to having a large amount of hours was the opportunity to apply to sites that had minimum hour requirements (example: minimum 700 direct contact). However, I know plenty of colleagues that did not do an advanced practicum and that did the program's minimum requirements (e.g., 625 hrs per practicum) and matched.

In short, the more hours you have the more sites you can apply to since some have minimum hour requirements; but it's really about the quality of your hours spent than quantity. In addition, the depth and breadth of experience obtained during practica.