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Reference letter for shadowing? please help!
- Thread starter ojy77511
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I hope this is a troll.
If you had no connection to this doctor, then what you did was strange. A random doctor's office is a place of business, it really isn't appropriate for random premeds to wander in off the street and try to solicit shadowing experiences. Frankly, it is a little off-putting. I probably would react that way too. Would you want to set a precedent and have random people you don't know or trust coming into your clinic, asking if they can start hanging out and taking up your time? It is a little bit suspicious and lacks social grace.
You need to reach out to an advisor or premed group affiliated with your school, even family friends - organizations and people that can vouch for you and communicate with professionals who may have already agreed to let students shadow. Even volunteering at a hospital or clinic and getting to personally know a doctor before asking is much more appropriate.
When I was working in a lab, some random student from college came into the building and began wandering down the lab hallways handing out his CV/contact info flyers to random post docs and PIs looking for a research job. It was totally inappropriate and invasive.
If you had no connection to this doctor, then what you did was strange. A random doctor's office is a place of business, it really isn't appropriate for random premeds to wander in off the street and try to solicit shadowing experiences. Frankly, it is a little off-putting. I probably would react that way too. Would you want to set a precedent and have random people you don't know or trust coming into your clinic, asking if they can start hanging out and taking up your time? It is a little bit suspicious and lacks social grace.
You need to reach out to an advisor or premed group affiliated with your school, even family friends - organizations and people that can vouch for you and communicate with professionals who may have already agreed to let students shadow. Even volunteering at a hospital or clinic and getting to personally know a doctor before asking is much more appropriate.
When I was working in a lab, some random student from college came into the building and began wandering down the lab hallways handing out his CV/contact info flyers to random post docs and PIs looking for a research job. It was totally inappropriate and invasive.
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For the lab assistant positions, I know people usually email the faculty that they are interested in doing research with (no affiliation is needed, could be different school also) and then get the positions after interviews and such. I guess just walking around might be invasive for some faculty members.
I thought shadowing was also contacting the person you are interested in shadowing and asking that person whether they are okay with it. I guess what you are saying is that I need some organization or faculty members that can "vouch" for me, right?
I thought shadowing was also contacting the person you are interested in shadowing and asking that person whether they are okay with it. I guess what you are saying is that I need some organization or faculty members that can "vouch" for me, right?
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^^^Agreed. If you have connections to particular physicians, that's great and will probably help. But if not, you should either email or call. Whether a particular doc will say yes or not just depends on the person. I know some docs who almost always say yes and others who really only allow students they know to shadow them. It can be somewhat of a liability when you're just a stranger walking in off the street, asking a doctor to take the time to let you follow them around and observe their patients' private health information. That's why some hospitals require that you complete a brief training (mostly HIPAA related) before you shadow.
Just be polite and mindful when you ask that these docs are doing you a favor. 🙂
Just be polite and mindful when you ask that these docs are doing you a favor. 🙂
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Asking for a reference letter was him telling you, "hey IDK know you, I need some way to verify that you aren't a serial killer." You don't need an organization, but having a method of validation is preferable. Also, a premed organization or professional office at a school just has more resources. Worse comes to worse, you can try to randomly email docs, but don't show up at clinics.
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Please don't intrude and solicit without a decent reason. This is why networking is so important since cold calls are bad enough as is.
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I've never heard of anyone asking for a reference letter before. It's likely that this was just his way of saying no since he doesn't know you at all. I agree with others: reach out to your premed advisor, talk to other premeds and see if you can contact docs they've shadowed, ask friends/family if there are doctors they know that could you shadow. And if none of that pans out, you can start sending emails. It's not that sending emails is bad; it's just less likely to be fruitful because docs are busy! You'll need some sort of clinical experience for med school so that's also a good place to connect with doctors you could potentially shadow.
References are essential. You need someone to vouch for your sense of responsibility.
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For jobs, yes. But I've never heard of anyone asking for a reference letter to shadow for a couple of shifts. Perhaps that's more common in private practice? I work in a hospital and students looking to shadow are treated basically the same as volunteers. They go through training with HR but aren't asked to provide references or anything.
Nevertheless, OP, if you find that many doctors you're approaching are asking for reference letters, then get one. But I honestly suspect that this was that doctor's way of telling you to get lost.
True, you need a lot of responsibility to stand back and watch 🙄
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I will summarize my thoughts because others have chimed in with similar things.
You are asking someone to do you a favor by asking them if you can shadow. You provide nothing to them and are getting a lot in return. You may not realize this, but shadowing is not as simple as showing up and watching a few shifts. The easiest to understand is the amount of paperwork that goes into allowing students into the clinical setting, which will vary depending on the clinical site. But, it is also a physician's time and energy that you are using. You seem to feel entitled to other's time/energy/resources just because they are of benefit to you. Getting to know you takes time. It takes energy. There are many of us (myself included) that enjoy having students around and see it as an essential part of what we want as a part of our practice/life. But, even with that perspective, I would never expect that others would sacrifice their business/time/energy for random strangers. You can say, "oh but it isn't really that much time/responsibility etc." and we can argue it for a while. But, at the end of the day, you are expecting someone to do you a favor in exchange for essentially nothing.
References are a standard component of virtually every application process. Want to work at a soup kitchen around here? You need 3 references. Want to volunteer at the zoo? You need 3 references AND letters from them. Want a job? References. We are in the middle of our residency application cycle. We require 3 letters of recommendation, but we make numerous phone calls to vet people that we really like. If someone came from my medical school, you bet that I've texted their clerkship directors before they show up for an interview. People's impression of you means a lot.
Again, you guys may not consider it a big deal, but inviting someone into a clinical setting is not a nothing. Bigger institutions may have established protocols and/or an HR department/education departments to support it, but certainly most individual physicians do not and all of the responsibility for that pre-med falls on them. Which they get nothing in exchange for. All of the proper credentialing, potential liability, etc. We just had a discussion on SDN about shadowing sites being shut down because of pre-meds acting inappropriately. It happens. And it is definitely on the minds of people when shadows approach them, whether the headache is worth it.
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OP walks in off the street and asks to shadow a doctor with CV in hand.
Sure they'll let you be privy to all kinds of personal , sensitive and confidential conversations with patients without any form of references or background check...
I'm sorry op, but i don't believe you even put ten minutes of effort in online to find the office phone number.
Sure they'll let you be privy to all kinds of personal , sensitive and confidential conversations with patients without any form of references or background check...
I'm sorry op, but i don't believe you even put ten minutes of effort in online to find the office phone number.
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Students who shadow are a huge potential liability for the physician. The student might say something inappropriate to a patient, or worse, describe or name patients and their medical conditions to outsiders. This exposes the physician to charges of violating confidentiality,which could result in lawsuits or licensing issues.
In his/her defense, your physician would be able to say, " Some kid came in off the street and said he wanted to watch, so I let him. I have no idea who he was, but he had a CV he typed up. "
In his/her defense, your physician would be able to say, " Some kid came in off the street and said he wanted to watch, so I let him. I have no idea who he was, but he had a CV he typed up. "
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That's why I always shut up and kick myself out of the patient rooms even when the attendings/residents and patients themselves say it's fine for me to enter.
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It's also possible OP is simply just unaware of the sacrifice a physician must make to take on a student in this fashion.
I think what OP did was highly unprofessional, but I also think if I was that doc I may have been a bit more accommodating simply just out of respect for the level of interest displayed by paying me a personal visit.
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I cold emailed a physician because they specialize in treating patients of a specific community, which aligns directly with my interest and goals. He was polite and declined a shadowing opportunity because he doesn't know me and patient confidentiality is crucial in these cases. Turns out, we both sit on the same committee and had I had an opportunity to pick his brain about the field. After getting to know him, he offered to let me shadow him during a couple operations.
I totally get where physicians are coming from with the hesitancy to allow students to shadow. Your best bet is to ask doctors at a teaching hospital. Just remember you aren't entitled to anyone's time.
I totally get where physicians are coming from with the hesitancy to allow students to shadow. Your best bet is to ask doctors at a teaching hospital. Just remember you aren't entitled to anyone's time.
