reference letter

[sp1023]

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hi my daughter did a summer internship with an equine vet (unpaid). Daughter sent vet an email asking him if he would be willing to write her a letter of recommendation - it's been over a month with no reply, daughter also called and left message with no response - any suggestions or guidance would be appreciated or should she consider this a write off. Thanks.

 

[FutureDVM2016]

hi my daughter did a summer internship with an equine vet (unpaid). Daughter sent vet an email asking him if he would be willing to write her a letter of recommendation - it's been over a month with no reply, daughter also called and left message with no response - any suggestions or guidance would be appreciated or should she consider this a write off. Thanks.

That's tough... maybe try going in person to ask? Sometimes, they are super busy. Might be a silly question, but she had a "good internship" right? Totally positive experience for both your daughter and the vet? No tardiness, or personal issues? Hopefully it is just a misunderstanding and they are very busy.

 

[Bisbee]

I agree with FutureDVM2016 that dropping in to see the vet in person would be a good idea. Your daughter could just say, "I sent you a letter a few weeks ago, but I know how busy you are, so I thought I'd just drop in to make sure you got it and to see if you'd be willing to write me a recommendation." This way the vet is on the spot and will probably say yes. If the vet balks at all about the letter, though, when your daughter talks to him/her in person, then I think it's a no (even if he/she agrees to do it but without any enthusiasm).

 

[su_grad2007]

Also, make sure you ask for a positive letter of recommendation just to make sure.

 

[sp1023]

Thanks, i will pass that on to her - as far as I know it was positive, she really enjoyed it and the vet let her do a lot, very hands on.

 

[sp1023]

hi just thought i would let you know outcome - vet finally got back to my daughter after 4 months, said he could not write a letter - my daughter asked why - was it something she did or did not do? the vet did not reply - we then sent vet a very nice letter outling everything my daughter did for him for 11 weeks unpaid - and thanking him for his kindess etc....and letting him know how important it was to my daughter to have a letter. the vet left a voicemail on my daughters phone saying she was very nice and enjoyed time spent over the summer but could not write a letter as he felt she was unenthusitic (my daughter is somewhat shy) and that he did not feel she would be a exemplary candidate for Vet School. That still stings. This seems unprofessional and unethical on their part (if they had an issue with daughter should have talked to them about it or dismissed, not kept them on for 11 weeks working unpaid).

Is it really that hard to get a LOR -

 

[ouijetaime]

hi just thought i would let you know outcome - vet finally got back to my daughter after 4 months, said he could not write a letter - my daughter asked why - was it something she did or did not do? the vet did not reply - we then sent vet a very nice letter outling everything my daughter did for him for 11 weeks unpaid - and thanking him for his kindess etc....and letting him know how important it was to my daughter to have a letter. the vet left a voicemail on my daughters phone saying she was very nice and enjoyed time spent over the summer but could not write a letter as he felt she was unenthusitic (my daughter is somewhat shy) and that he did not feel she would be a exemplary candidate for Vet School. That still stings. This seems unprofessional and unethical on their part (if they had an issue with daughter should have talked to them about it or dismissed, not kept them on for 11 weeks working unpaid).

Is it really that hard to get a LOR -

No, it really shouldn't be that hard to get an eLOR. I'm assuming your daughter is applying next cycle?
For the moment, make sure she has good academic references, at least 3 since she doesn't have any vet references. Next, she needs to get in with another vet. Have her ask at local clinics if she can shadow (unpaid work, again, but a way to get in the door). Note, it is important that SHE ask, herself. You can't ask for her, or they won't take her seriously. I contacted about 10 clinics before I finally got a response - just one, but that was all it took. I'm shy, too. It's hard, but it can be done! Plus, once you're working with the animals and around the people, you get better about the shyness. I'm actually working reception right now to get a better idea of the business as a whole, which is not something I would have believed I could do before I started working as a tech. Once she is in at a vet clinic, it's easier to find opportunities through networking. After a month or two, she could ask if anyone knows a large animal vet she can shadow/ride along with.

Overall, just keep trying. Persistence pays off.

EDIT: Also, don't get a letter from the vet she interned with. It would be a less than flattering letter, and impact her application negatively. It's hard enough to get into vet school without building obstacles like that into your application.

 

[SpunkyMaddie]

hi just thought i would let you know outcome - vet finally got back to my daughter after 4 months, said he could not write a letter - my daughter asked why - was it something she did or did not do? the vet did not reply - we then sent vet a very nice letter outling everything my daughter did for him for 11 weeks unpaid - and thanking him for his kindess etc....and letting him know how important it was to my daughter to have a letter. the vet left a voicemail on my daughters phone saying she was very nice and enjoyed time spent over the summer but could not write a letter as he felt she was unenthusitic (my daughter is somewhat shy) and that he did not feel she would be a exemplary candidate for Vet School. That still stings. This seems unprofessional and unethical on their part (if they had an issue with daughter should have talked to them about it or dismissed, not kept them on for 11 weeks working unpaid).

Is it really that hard to get a LOR -

I had a hard time getting an eLOR from a vet. So what I did which I don't really recommend it if you have another option but I got a professor who has a DVM to write me a letter. I didn't know if the vet schools that required a vet as an evaluator would just throw out my application but they didn't because so far this cycle I have gotten 5 interviews and one acceptance so far and no rejections yet (I applied to 7 schools). And the first equine vet I worked with pretty much told me that I would not make a good vet because I am too shy and that since I am a girl I won't have enough strength to pull shoes and float teeth and I got into vet school this year. So tell her not to be discouraged by what that vet thought. I am now working with a different equine vet at the same office and she is really nice and she told me that I won't have any problem pulling shoes and floating teeth and she has been really supportive while I've been waiting to hear back from the schools. If only I had just worked with her first she could have written me a letter. And before I started working with this office I called over 50 small and equine vets before I found someone to take me so yeah just don't give up. 🙂

 

[TigerWillow]

This is just my two cents about being shy. I was born an extreme introvert and wouldn't even socialize with kids my own age for many many years. However, after being nagged by my mother about my shyness I made it a conscious effort to really become extroverted. Apparently it worked, because people I know say I can make friends anywhere I go. However, this took A LOT of effort to overcome.

Unfortunately in this day and age shy people are overlooked. We can't have an entire world of extroverted bubbly people, but most employers and schools in all industries look for people who are outgoing, enthusiastic, and communicative. It IS something that can be practiced. Your daughter just needs to continue at it. It definitely is a step out of your comfort zone, but well worth it. Great life lesson.

On a side note, shouldn't she be on here? It might be good for her to be proactive also. This is her future!! 🙂

 

[TigerWillow]

But on another side note, that vet sounds douchey. More like just wanted the free labor. I had a really easy time asking my vets for LORs. The professors felt like pulling teeth, and had to nag one of them until 12 hours before!!!

 

[jmo1012]

hey now, there is a big difference between extroversion, introversion, and shyness. 🙂 http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/26/shhhh-the-quiet-joys-of-the-introvert/

 

[TigerWillow]

Haha ok. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being an introvert. I'm just saying generally people look for extroverts in interviews. I should know; I helped interview people for scholarships at my UG

 

[sp1023]

Thanks for all the input - i will pass it along to my daughter - and you are right she should be on here! - she is so busy with school and extracurriculars for building resume etc. as i know you all are... i sometimes try to help her with leg work. I have a totally new respect for Vets and how hard the whole process is. She has LORs from professors and advisors at school. She sent out 10 letters to large animal vets (not many were we live) and has heard back from two who are willing to take her on over the summer. She has shadowed at our own Vet (cats/dogs) on and off for over 3 years - maybe 100 hours but she feels they don't really know her as she is not allowed to actually do anything just observe. I guess she should ask all they can say is no.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Honestly do you really want someone writing an LOR that is unenthusiastic for your daughter. And, no it is not unprofessional not to provide one. I have written LORs (in biz) and I can tell you, it can really hurt asking the wrong person. Better they decline, and she find a better choice, than getting a bad one.

Even if a lukewarm letter will look bad next to all the glowing letters of other candidates. Don't blame the vet, help her working on improving herself. Vet Med is very people oriented, you need to work with clients, or colleagues, even lab work requires social skills, so don't discount the need to overcome shyness.

 

[that redhead]

Instead of unprofessional and unethical, I think they were being honest. I'd much rather someone tell me they didn't feel they could write me a positive letter than agree to write a letter and say just how I felt (negatively overall, in this case). Plus, now that she knows of a weak spot, she can address it in hopes of having a better experience with another vet. I grew up as a shy kid but I made myself get out there and be talkative and enthusiastic and engaging. Not to say that she can't be a vet and be shy but the process will certainly be more difficult, in my opinion.

Letters of recommendation are really crucial and you want them to be as supportive and enthusiastic as they can be. I would encourage her to make a conscious effort at being more personable or outgoing or less shy with the next vet she works with. It isn't easy but it's do-able 🙂

 

[2CatMatt]

It is unprofessional to not respond to someone who worked for you for 11 weeks. However, it is certainly okay for someone to not write you a LOR. Those are not a given. In any case, I think it's preferable to have that person say "no" outright versus writing a lukewarm or mediocre letter. The professional response would have been, "I appreciate the work you put in, but I cannot in good faith write you a positive letter." See, nice and quick.

She has shadowed at our own Vet (cats/dogs) on and off for over 3 years - maybe 100 hours but she feels they don't really know her as she is not allowed to actually do anything just observe.

Observing is important and the point of shadowing, not necessarily doing things. If she has 100 hours at one place with a vet or two, I think she should definitely ask if they would be willing to write her a positive rec.

 

[jmo1012]

make sure to ask if someone is willing to write you a POSITVE letter of recommendation. 🙂

 

[PetPony]

I'm also pretty shy around new people, but I have really been working on it. I offer to train people at work to put myself out there. If I'm on stations where it's possible, I try to make conversation with every person coming up. Etc. I take almost any chance I can get, because it really helps. I'm still not too comfortable around new people, but I'm better. It definitely helps when asking vets about shadowing. I'm more comfortable asking them and I think it really shows.

 

[kanderson615]

A note about the shyness and a way to maybe help your daughter seem more "enthusiastic" at her next shadow:

I shadowed at the same vet's office for two summers (with one summer in between). The first summer I was very unsure of myself and was somewhat intimidated by the whole process. I liked everyone there but because of my insecurity it wasn't a very enjoyable experience and I'm sure I didn't seem very enthusiastic. By the end of the summer I probably would not have felt comfortable asking for a LOR.

The next time I shadowed there, however, I decided to ask every single question that came to my mind (unless a question was legitimately dumb, although I'm sure I asked some of those sometimes anyway). It made the whole experience a lot more interactive and I really felt like I learned a lot and I got to know everyone better. I also brought a little notebook that I kept in my scrubs to write about every case and things that I learned from each. When there was downtime, instead of standing around bored, I asked one of the doctors if I could look through some of the books on his bookshelf (he had a big one full of vet med books in his office). I looked through all kinds - books about different breeds of dogs/cats, parasites, histology... even if I didn't understand everything in the books I still had a great time looking through them and I know I looked like a lot better shadow than I would have had I just stood around until the next client came in. I feel like from doing those three things I had a much more fulfilling summer as a shadow the second time around, and I felt comfortable enough asking for a LOR by the end (and I'm very sure I got a positive one).

Anyway, I'm sure the doctor was mistaken when he assumed your shy daughter was "unenthusiastic," but maybe you could suggest these as ways for her to be more involved in her next experience! Just my advice! 🙂

 

[bbeventer]

I don't know, this may sound harsh, but if your daughter is applying for vet school and she was unable to initially contact the vet for an eLOR (you her mother had to make the first contact), which she then followed up on, it sounds like she may need a little more practice in the world before tackling something like vet school. Don't get me wrong, I am a shy person when it comes to talking to authority figures. I always speculate how the people will react, if they like me, if something will change our relationship etc., intern this makes it challenging (scary) for me to contact others, but I still do it.

Anyways, I think if I was a doctor being asked to write a letter by someone’s mom I would probably refuse too. If the candidate could not swallow their shyness and allow their passion and drive to compel them forward and ask for what they need, then what future do they hold in this field? And still, it is you (her mom) on here seeking out advice on how to attain a good eLOR instead of your daughter. It just makes me wonder where her passion is.

Back on to the subject of the doc in question though, why try and pull teeth from a vet that does not want to write a letter? Your daughter will just end up with a bad letter. Instead of thinking that your daughter wasted 11 months because she did not get an eLOR out of the vet, think of the 11 months of vet experience she gained that she can now add to her application!

I wish your daughter luck in her pursuit.

 

[sp1023]

Hi i did not contact the vet for the LOR my daughter did! spoke with her during the internship when she said she would do a letter, then after it was over sent several emails and left a message on cell phone.

 

[sp1023]

Also when the Vet said no she could not write a LOR my daughter sent her a message asking her why and asking for feedback so that she could correct whatever issue was. To which she received no response. It was not until she sent a letter CRR to the Vet that she received any feedback.