Reference Question - Grad Student vs. Professor

[Kuhdaytee]

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Hey everyone,

I posted earlier about my physics professor not responding to my calls/emails, but I don't know any other professors that well.

All of my classes had grad students that taught the labs, so I know some of them pretty well. I was wondering if grad students will count as a "professor" reference. I'm pretty sure that they don't, but I was also wondering if anyone has gotten a professor to officially submit the reference on PTCAS, but have the grad student help with the reference (as in, grad student writes the letter and recommends personality numbers, and the professor makes the final call).

I'm not sure what else to do, since I don't know any professors well enough.

Thanks!

 

[davidtheusername]

I'd be hesitant to do that. I don't think that would count as a professor. Even if it did, I'd be worried that the schools would look down upon it. If you have any way to get an actual science professor to write one, I'd do that. If you got a good grade in a class, most professors would still be willing to write you a letter even if they don't know you well. I'd include a resume and a letter about yourself or something so they'd have something to talk about. It won't be the best reference ever, but it tops not having one. I've been a teacher for a long time and those were always helpful to me when I wrote letters. Good luck. I'm non-traditional so I was stressed about academic references as well since most of my schooling was a 10-13 years okay. If my a and p teacher didn't send one in for me, I was going to be in the same boat as you hoping a teacher who I didn't know well would write me one.

 

[Kuhdaytee]

I'd be hesitant to do that. I don't think that would count as a professor. Even if it did, I'd be worried that the schools would look down upon it. If you have any way to get an actual science professor to write one, I'd do that. If you got a good grade in a class, most professors would still be willing to write you a letter even if they don't know you well. I'd include a resume and a letter about yourself or something so they'd have something to talk about. It won't be the best reference ever, but it tops not having one. I've been a teacher for a long time and those were always helpful to me when I wrote letters. Good luck. I'm non-traditional so I was stressed about academic references as well since most of my schooling was a 10-13 years okay. If my a and p teacher didn't send one in for me, I was going to be in the same boat as you hoping a teacher who I didn't know well would write me one.

Yeah, I asked my physio professor but she's going out of town, and my psych professor was only interested in co-signing a letter written by the grad student. I've been sending my personal statement, a link to my LinkedIn account, and offering to drive two hours to meet with them if they want to talk in person. I'll probably ask my anatomy professor next, as I've taken three classes with him, but I didn't do so well in one of the classes so I'm a little hesitant. I also think that he writes a lot of letters for students, so I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing.

 

[davidtheusername]

Cosigning a letter written by the grad student probably counts, I'd think. A lot of letters probably means he writes pretty general letters. If you are hoping your letters push you over the edge to acceptance, then that's really bad. However, if you have really good stats, a merely okay reference like that probably won't hurt you.

 

[davidtheusername]

At the school that I'm applying for they wanted a reference from "a basic science professor or your academic advisor." What do your schools say? There might be an alternative for you like an advisor that you know well.

 

[Kuhdaytee]

Cosigning a letter written by the grad student probably counts, I'd think. A lot of letters probably means he writes pretty general letters. If you are hoping your letters push you over the edge to acceptance, then that's really bad. However, if you have really good stats, a merely okay reference like that probably won't hurt you.

At the school that I'm applying for they wanted a reference from "a basic science professor or your academic advisor." What do your schools say? There might be an alternative for you like an advisor that you know well.

I have decent grades and a much better GRE score, and I know my other two references are strong. I just emailed the anatomy professor because I feel like I don't have many other options. I worked a lot with one of his grad students and a women who works for the biology department, and the professor knows them well, so hopefully he will talk to them to get a better idea of what I'm like.

I also know that at least one school does not allow an academic reference, so I'm assuming that they won't want a grad student or my other academic reference.

 

[davidtheusername]

If you have two strong references, I wouldn't sweat one weaker one too much. At this point anybody who says yes should be good enough as long as they don't hate you.

 

[davidtheusername]

Have them put a good word in for you with the anatomy professor if you can.

 

[Kuhdaytee]

Thanks! 🙂 This is the only thing that has been stressing me out, so I appreciate the reassurance.

 

[ptlover]

Thanks! 🙂 This is the only thing that has been stressing me out, so I appreciate the reassurance.

Did calling the department work???

 

[davidtheusername]

Get a nice bottle of scotch, go into the faculty lounge, offer to give the bottle to the first person who writes you a letter. It will be submitted into PTCAS in an hour. 🙂 Joking... Well, maybe, heck, that might work.

 

[Kuhdaytee]

Did calling the department work???

No. The problem is that he mostly does research, and only taught that one class, so there isn't a department to call. I called human resources for his lab, and tried calling one of his colleagues, with no luck. I'll try again tomorrow morning, but I've pretty much given up on him.

Get a nice bottle of scotch, go into the faculty lounge, offer to give the bottle to the first person who writes you a letter. It will be submitted into PTCAS in an hour. 🙂 Joking... Well, maybe, heck, that might work.

Haha I would if I lived closer! Should have tried that sooner.

 

[ktachiba]

Yeah I'm stressing about my professor writing my letter as well. He agreed to do it, but he hasn't responded to my last few emails. In my last one, I pretended I was applying for early decision (Aug 15), so that it could motivate him to answer me. I told all my other references the deadline is August 15th too so they won't lag.

I was wondering, can I e-submit my application even if I don't have all the references? I want to submit my application as early as possible so I have a better chance of getting into a school.

 

[davidtheusername]

Yes you can submit before the references are all in.

 

[Paulynices]

Yeah I'm stressing about my professor writing my letter as well. He agreed to do it, but he hasn't responded to my last few emails. In my last one, I pretended I was applying for early decision (Aug 15), so that it could motivate him to answer me. I told all my other references the deadline is August 15th too so they won't lag.

I was wondering, can I e-submit my application even if I don't have all the references? I want to submit my application as early as possible so I have a better chance of getting into a school.

If you don't have a backup plan, make one now. I just had to find another PT to write a reference for me and verify some hours because the original PT just wouldn't do it after he said he would and trying to contact him for a month. I have no idea why it happened, but crap happens and sometimes people just suck (to be perfectly honest). So make sure you have a plan b so someone else's choices don't affect your application and future.

 

[Kuhdaytee]

Yep, I agree. I'm on plan D right now because three professors have fallen through. It's incredibly frustrating.

 

[ptlover]

Maybe the anatomy professor ? He has seen your strengths and weaknesses which can be a good thing sometimes!

 

[Kuhdaytee]

Maybe the anatomy professor ? He has seen your strengths and weaknesses which can be a good thing sometimes!

I sent him an email earlier today. I never spoke to him, and the classes had hundreds of students so I'm not sure if he will recognize me, but I know my anatomy lab teacher and the lab support woman really well, so I'm hoping he can speak to them about me.

 

[ktachiba]

yeah its sad to me that professors can't take the time to write a letter for their students, especially if you got a good grade in the class. I thought the reason they got into the profession is to help students reach their dreams.

 

[ktachiba]

Luckily my anatomy professor wrote me one already. But I need 2 letters from professors in a few schools, so I'm trying to find another one. I think I will go to school and personally ask instead of doing the email thing.

 

[Kuhdaytee]

Yeah, I live two hours away so it's easier to email, unfortunately. I wish I could go in person.

I think I've just been really unlucky. Most professors are very willing to help out.

 

[Watson27]

Were there any professors that you spoke to outside of class? Office hours, review sessions/appointments, organizations, etc? Those might be your best bet. If the program doesn't specify what type of professor, don't be afraid to ask professors from different disciplines. My second academic reference is from my physics professor! I didn't do incredibly well in his class (B, A-), but he also happens to be the faculty adviser for an organization that I have been extremely involved in (officer position, etc). I know that he can speak well about my leadership and organizational abilities. Think outside the box.

If you do not have any profs you are close with, and you are emailing them, be sure to mention what classes you took, when you took them, what grade you got, and why you enjoyed the class. I think it would be reasonable to cc TA's or lab instructors who might have known you better. That way the professor can easily speak to them. Also make sure to include either your resume/CV or write a short synopsis of your qualifications (GPA, GRE, etc). And make it a little more personal by telling them why you want to go to PT school and what schools you are applying to.

At this point you can't go back in time and become BFFs with your profs. But I'll share my experience. Perhaps it will be helpful to those applying in future cycles.

The key for me was to nail down who I was going to use and let them know in April or May. I specifically let them know that the application opens on July 1 and I would be contacting them at that time. Because it is summer, I asked for their personal cell phone numbers so I could call them if there were any changes or to remind them.

 

[Kuhdaytee]

Were there any professors that you spoke to outside of class? Office hours, review sessions/appointments, organizations, etc? Those might be your best bet. If the program doesn't specify what type of professor, don't be afraid to ask professors from different disciplines. My second academic reference is from my physics professor! I didn't do incredibly well in his class (B, A-), but he also happens to be the faculty adviser for an organization that I have been extremely involved in (officer position, etc). I know that he can speak well about my leadership and organizational abilities. Think outside the box.

If you do not have any profs you are close with, and you are emailing them, be sure to mention what classes you took, when you took them, what grade you got, and why you enjoyed the class. I think it would be reasonable to cc TA's or lab instructors who might have known you better. That way the professor can easily speak to them. Also make sure to include either your resume/CV or write a short synopsis of your qualifications (GPA, GRE, etc). And make it a little more personal by telling them why you want to go to PT school and what schools you are applying to.

At this point you can't go back in time and become BFFs with your profs. But I'll share my experience. Perhaps it will be helpful to those applying in future cycles.

The key for me was to nail down who I was going to use and let them know in April or May. I specifically let them know that the application opens on July 1 and I would be contacting them at that time. Because it is summer, I asked for their personal cell phone numbers so I could call them if there were any changes or to remind them.

Thanks for replying. I did exactly what you recommended, and the first few professors were just unable to fit it into their schedule for other reasons. This is really helpful advice, by the way. I never thought of asking for personal cell numbers.

 

[Kuhdaytee]

Hey everyone! Thanks for all the advice. The physics professor was on vacation, and finally replied this morning. So much stress taken off my plate now haha

 

[davidtheusername]

Great to hear! Now to find the next part of the process to stress out over. Not making fun, that's exactly what I'm doing. 🙂

 

[ktachiba]

Does it matter which professor gives you a letter? For example, do they only want letters from the core pre-requisite classes (Anatomy, physics, etc), or can it by from any class you took (Speech, Zoology, Calculus, etc)

 

[davidtheusername]

That depends on the school. My school wants a basic science professor. Others want something else.

 

[Kuhdaytee]

Yeah, it depends on the school. I think that some prefer it being a professor for a pre-req class, some require it to be from your major, etc. I don't think any of my schools cared, as long as it was a professor.

Great to hear! Now to find the next part of the process to stress out over. Not making fun, that's exactly what I'm doing. 🙂

Oh, I'm back to stressing about my essays again! They're almost done though. 🙂 I'm so ready to submit everything.

 

[ktachiba]

Thanks for the replies...I can't wait for this application process to be done haha

 

[navybluedreams]

Does anyone have any good recommendations as to how to ask PTs/professors for references? And by a timely manner?

 

[Kuhdaytee]

Does anyone have any good recommendations as to how to ask PTs/professors for references? And by a timely manner?

Are you applying this year?

I moved out of town once I graduated, so I asked a PT and professor in person, and emailed my old supervisor sometime in May (she had moved towns). I told them when the application opened, and that they wouldn't have to write it for a while. It was terrifying to ask the professor haha but just do it as soon as possible, if you're applying right now. It will give them more time to write the letter, and it also gives you time to find a backup if someone declines.

At the beginning of July, I sent them all an email with my personal statement, my LinkedIn address, and told them that I'd like the letter to be in by the end of the month, if possible.

 

[navybluedreams]

Yes, I'm applying this year! I know a couple of PTs and supervisors who will definitely write me references but I was a bit confused as to whether or not they send their letter back to me. I was reading PTCAs yesterday and I interpreted it as PTCAs will be contacting my evaluators, so they can directly receive my letters from them.

 

[davidtheusername]

PTCAS does send a form to the evaluators after you enter the information into PTCAS. You never see the letter (unless the reference sends it to you on their own.)

 

[Schland]

Haven't read the whole thread but back when I applied... 4 years ago.... I used a letter from a grad student. The school I applied for accepted it. If it isn't listed anywhere on the schools websites I'd call and ask if they accept it.