Refusal to write letter of recommendation

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Hello all,
I need your advice on this matter and would appreciate all your suggestions. I recently shadowed a DO in the hopes of obtaining a recommendation letter. After my three days experience, I politely asked the DO for a letter of recommendation. A minute later, the DO responded by saying that he didn't know me well enough to write me a letter (To be fair, I only got the opportunity to shadow him through the AOA mentor program. So he really doesn't know me). I was very shocked and I am still trying to figure out if that was his way of refusing to write me a letter. I am in desperate need of a letter and the thought of going through the whole process of trying to find another DO is just very discouraging right now. What do I do? How do I make him know me fast enough to get a letter?

 

[Bacchus]

Do you have a resume, personal statment, and transcript? Those would be good places to start.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

His reaction is understandable and reasonable, albeit disappointing for you.

You can appeal to him by offering a detailed CV/transcripts/etc, as well as offering to buy him coffee/lunch/dinner in order to talk with him for 15 minutes about your application, etc. This would give him the ammo needed for a letter, but he might not want to do this.

If that doesn't work, tell him that you really need a letter with a DO signature on it. Ask if he knows anyone that would be willing to write a very brief letter so that you can meet the requirement of a couple of unyielding schools.

 

[RySerr21]

you can expalin to him your situatino (aka you NEED this) and you can give him lots of ammo about yourself like pesronal statment, AMCAS, cv, or whatever....OR you can offer to write the letter for him. THis is not uncommon. You write the letter, show it to him and he edits it as he sees appropriate, signs it and then turns it in. I would go with that.

 

[J1515]

Hello all,
I need your advice on this matter and would appreciate all your suggestions. I recently shadowed a DO in the hopes of obtaining a recommendation letter. After my three days experience, I politely asked the DO for a letter of recommendation. A minutes letter, the DO responded by saying that he didn’t know me well enough to write me a letter (To be fair, I only got the opportunity to shadow him through the AOA mentor program. So he really doesn’t know me). I was very shocked and I am still trying to figure out if that was his way of refusing to write me a letter. I am in desperate need of a letter and the thought of going through the whole process of trying to find another DO is just very discouraging right now. What do I do? How do I make him know me fast enough to get a letter?

I know some doctors will write a letter after talking with a premed for 15 minutes, but realistically speaking it's not really the right thing to do and defeats the purpose of LOCs in the first place. 3 days isn't enough time to get to know someone. The doctor's name and reputation is on the line. Why should he chance it?

 

[213965]

I agree with what ryserr21 and Chocolate Bear posted. I got 2 D.O. LOR's that way (providing CV, personal statement, secondary essays, and brief 20min meeting).

Good luck!!!

 

[NontradICUdoc]

you need to know where the Doctor is coming from. For years, medical school applicants have not been serious about pursuing a DO degree and have used the DO schools as a backup for MD schools. As a result, seats that would have gone to students who wanted to be DOs went to those that were just using them as place holders. So this physician may want to ensure that you are serious about becoming a DO and not just a place holder until MD schools accept you.

In addition, lets look at it from the perspective of this is in your best interest. Adcoms get thousands of applications each year. In order to put together not only the best class they want to show that their program is attracting the best and the brightest. This will increase the competition for seats to that school, increase the school's reputation, and increase revenue. As you know, one of the requirements is a letter of recommendation from a DO just like a letter of recommendation from a professor or from a Pre professional committee. Well, imagine you have an applicant that received a letter from a professor that they do not really know. The letter will sound like this:

"John came to class every lecture. He was always ready to tackle the day's assignment and he passed this course with flying colors. I recommend him for medical school"

Or, from a DO that you just met and only spent a few hours with:

"John came to my office and spent a few days with me. During that time, he was able to see me and my partners perform various exams. He is enthusiastic about becoming a doctor and I recommend him."

Does not really jump out at you as a "star applicant" nor an applicant the adcom would remember. Now let us take a letter of recommendation from a professor with whom the applicant worked with outside of class:

"Over the last year, I had the pleasure of having John Q. Public in my laboratory. His project involved determining how Serotonin is regulated in response to an anti depressant drug in mice. In order to prepare for his project, John learned all that he could about Obsessive Compulsive disorder as well as the Serotonin related neuro pathways. I was able to see first hand his love of science and medicine. He has told me on more than one occasion about his passion to become a physician. I believe that John not only has the academic strength to tackle any medical program, but the passion for medicine as well."

Imagine what the DO would say about this applicant if he knew him even more. I think you get the picture and I do not have to write a "letter".

This doctor did you a favor. He wants to get to know you better in order to write you the best possible letter of recommendation he could so that you can be a more competitive and unforgettable applicant.

 

[Atlas80]

you need to know where the Doctor is coming from. For years, medical school applicants have not been serious about pursuing a DO degree and have used the DO schools as a backup for MD schools. As a result, seats that would have gone to students who wanted to be DOs went to those that were just using them as place holders. So this physician may want to ensure that you are serious about becoming a DO and not just a place holder until MD schools accept you.

In addition, lets look at it from the perspective of this is in your best interest. Adcoms get thousands of applications each year. In order to put together not only the best class they want to show that their program is attracting the best and the brightest. This will increase the competition for seats to that school, increase the school's reputation, and increase revenue. As you know, one of the requirements is a letter of recommendation from a DO just like a letter of recommendation from a professor or from a Pre professional committee. Well, imagine you have an applicant that received a letter from a professor that they do not really know. The letter will sound like this:

"John came to class every lecture. He was always ready to tackle the day's assignment and he passed this course with flying colors. I recommend him for medical school"

Or, from a DO that you just met and only spent a few hours with:

"John came to my office and spent a few days with me. During that time, he was able to see me and my partners perform various exams. He is enthusiastic about becoming a doctor and I recommend him."

Does not really jump out at you as a "star applicant" nor an applicant the adcom would remember. Now let us take a letter of recommendation from a professor with whom the applicant worked with outside of class:

"Over the last year, I had the pleasure of having John Q. Public in my laboratory. His project involved determining how Serotonin is regulated in response to an anti depressant drug in mice. In order to prepare for his project, John learned all that he could about Obsessive Compulsive disorder as well as the Serotonin related neuro pathways. I was able to see first hand his love of science and medicine. He has told me on more than one occasion about his passion to become a physician. I believe that John not only has the academic strength to tackle any medical program, but the passion for medicine as well."

Imagine what the DO would say about this applicant if he knew him even more. I think you get the picture and I do not have to write a "letter".

This doctor did you a favor. He wants to get to know you better in order to write you the best possible letter of recommendation he could so that you can be a more competitive and unforgettable applicant.

What you are saying is true. But the fact of the matter is that it is not easy to find a DO is doing research much less work with them in a way that will allow them to see you in all your glory.

The point of getting a DO letter is because it is mandatory or highly recommended at most DO schools. As long as it is not derogatory you will be fine.

There are some DO's who would be happy to get to know you and write you a letter. I know it is difficult but you should find another DO. If you manage to get a letter from this person it will probably not be good.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

I would suggest that your request to shadow should always be in writing and that you state up front that at the end of the week or month you will ask for a letter of recommendation. If the DO tells you that can't be enough time to form an opinion, find someone else to shadow.🙂

 

[Chocolate Bear]

I would suggest that your request to shadow should always be in writing and that you state up front that at the end of the week or month you will ask for a letter of recommendation. If the DO tells you that can't be enough time to form an opinion, find someone else to shadow.🙂

This could work, but I wouldn't suggest it for everybody. The problem is that it's already so hard to find DOs to shadow in certain areas, and this adds yet another obstacle between the applicant and the coveted DO shadowing experience/LOR. Except for the few schools that require a DO letter, I'd say it's more important to at least shadow one, as opposed to putting up this screening mechanism to expedite getting a letter.

However, since the OP already has the shadowing experience, this would work as an improved filter for getting that letter.

 

[Jack Daniel]

I'd be annoyed and I think it's a bunch of bunk.
It's ridiculous for this doc not to write a recommendation letter because, even if he didn't know you well, he could still write a letter to reflect what he did know: "This student spend the afternoon with me, etc. etc."

Of course it would be a near worthless rec, but whatever, it's a rec and it meets the silly requirement. I think recs are generally worthless, unless you have a big name who's willing to go beyond the usual formal, stiff language and really put their name on the line for you. Then you have something golden.

Other than that, the whole rec process is arbitrary, IMO. I fully sympathize with you.

With that said, I agree with Bacchus that you should submit your resume, personal statment, and transcript when asking for a rec because it will give the doc something to go on.

 

[silas2642]

Hello all,
I need your advice on this matter and would appreciate all your suggestions. I recently shadowed a DO in the hopes of obtaining a recommendation letter. After my three days experience, I politely asked the DO for a letter of recommendation. A minutes letter, the DO responded by saying that he didn’t know me well enough to write me a letter (To be fair, I only got the opportunity to shadow him through the AOA mentor program. So he really doesn’t know me). I was very shocked and I am still trying to figure out if that was his way of refusing to write me a letter. I am in desperate need of a letter and the thought of going through the whole process of trying to find another DO is just very discouraging right now. What do I do? How do I make him know me fast enough to get a letter?

I wouldn't have him write the letter. First of all, someone saying that he/she will not write a letter is not a good sign in and of itself. To persist and keep asking that person is just asking for trouble-- it's unprofessional and probably going to get you (at the very least) a lukewarm lor.

Secondly, this person has a point. You only shadowed him for three days, which is not enough for him to write you a letter of rec. I'm not sure I would feel comfortable recommending someone for a spot in professional school based on like 18 hours of interaction with them.

Thirdly, this might not actually be the reason why he/she won't write the letter. There may be other reasons that he doesn't want to tell you. My advice is that if you can't get a very strong letter of recommendation, especially coming from a clinical mentor, do not get it.

 

[engineeredout]

You just have to get lucky and find a DO who is willing to write one. The younger the DO the better, because they'll be that much closer to remembering what a **** process the med school applications can be and how you need all the help you can get.

 

[213965]

You just have to get lucky and find a DO who is willing to write one. The younger the DO the better, because they'll be that much closer to remembering what a **** process the med school applications can be and how you need all the help you can get.

Or find one who's on an admissions committee at one of the medical schools -- they know the "in's and out's" of the application process, know what a pain it is, and I was able to get 2 within the same week that way 👍

 

[smtort]

I don't buy the "I don't know you well enough to write you a letter" explanation. I shadowed a DO for a half day and he said he would absolutely write me a letter. He understood the requirements more than he knew me per say. However, he did ask me a lot of questions and made me fill out a form before I left to assist him with the letter. I would move on to another DO mentor relationship right away. And remember that you can still reflect on this experience in your secondaries and interviews. I don't think it was a waste of time. Best of luck 👍

 

[The Letter J]

I don't buy the "I don't know you well enough to write you a letter" explanation. I shadowed a DO for a half day and he said he would absolutely write me a letter. He understood the requirements more than he knew me per say. However, he did ask me a lot of questions and made me fill out a form before I left to assist him with the letter. I would move on to another DO mentor relationship right away. And remember that you can still reflect on this experience in your secondaries and interviews. I don't think it was a waste of time. Best of luck 👍

I agree with this. I work in a hospital and I've had D.O.s that I just met offer to write me a letter. Granted I shadowed the D.O. I got an LOR from twice a week for a month or so. Still, I'd move on and find someone else to shadow.

 

[Terpskins99]

Some people take rec letters very seriously and are only willing to provide them for those students they believe really distinguish themselves. Others are willing to write letters for anyone they think can hold a decent conversation. Every doc is different. Its their right.

What is stupid is the whole DO letter requirement to begin with. It killed my application to VCOM (who wouldn't waive the DO letter requirement even though I had two MD letters in addition to undergrad faculty letters). I still ended up at a fine school (and most DO programs do not have this requirement).

That all said, I don't think it would hurt to ask again. You have nothing to lose, but your pride. Just phrase it in a very tactful and polite manner. Like previous people mentioned... express the circumstances for the letter (that a school requires a DO LOR and that the letter can be very simple).

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

I'd thank him for his frankness, explain my situation then ask "I would love to spend more time learning about osteopathic medicine. If you are amenable, what type of engagement would give you enough information to write a positive LOR."

 

[engineeredout]

I'd thank him for his frankness, explain my situation then ask "I would love to spend more time learning about osteopathic medicine. If you are amenable, what type of engagement would give you enough information to write a positive LOR."

I disagree. At this point its not going to help by constantly pestering him. He already said no, let it go at that. Try to find someone else.

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

I disagree. At this point its not going to help by constantly pestering him. Try to find someone else.

You'd have to read the situation. It may or may not be pestering. Not being in the room, I wouldn't make that assumption. But that could be the case.

 

[Terpskins99]

I disagree. At this point its not going to help by constantly pestering him. He already said no, let it go at that. Try to find someone else.

You don't know that. The OP isn't asking for anything fancy, just trying to fulfill a requirement. (And a very stupid requirement at that... not unlike the bogus "rotating osteopathic internship" year that DO's must complete to practice in 5 states. 😡)

Frankly, I'd think the doc would have to be a complete jerk to turn you down a second time after explaining your situation. Even offer to shadow for additional time. And yeah, if the doc still turns you down... then go hunting for a second doc.

 

[rddoms]

I had a similar situation, and went about it with a combo of the above ideas. I shadowed a doc and told him my situation (applying soon for DO matriculation). I asked him if he would be willing to write me a letter, and what steps needed to be completed before he did. He then proceeded to tell me the amount of hours he wanted me to shadow, as well as the documents he wanted to see. If you have already shadowed the doc, bring him all ammo (paperwork) you have, and ask him if he would be willing to write you a letter following some more shadowing.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

 

[scpod]

If someone is hesitant to write you an LOR but you push him or her into it....well, they very well might write you one. But, that LOR might be the one thing that keeps you OUT of medical school instead of helping you to get in. A good LOR rarely makes an admissions committe change their mind and give you a spot because thousands of people have great LORs. It's really just a formality. But, a bad or mediocre one will certainly keep you out.

If he doesn't want to write you one, find someone who will.

Admissions committes know it is tough to get a DO letter sometimes. In the state of Louisianna you probably have a better chance of being eaten alive by an alligator than finding a DO to write you a letter. Yet, thousands of people find a way to get it done every year. Getting into med school isn't supposed to be easy. If you think this is hard....just wait. You ain't seen nothin' yet 🙂.

 

[Terpskins99]

If someone is hesitant to write you an LOR but you push him or her into it....well, they very well might write you one. But, that LOR might be the one thing that keeps you OUT of medical school instead of helping you to get in. A good LOR rarely makes an admissions committe change their mind and give you a spot because thousands of people have great LORs. It's really just a formality. But, a bad or mediocre one will certainly keep you out.

If he doesn't want to write you one, find someone who will.

Admissions committes know it is tough to get a DO letter sometimes. In the state of Louisianna you probably have a better chance of being eaten alive by an alligator than finding a DO to write you a letter. Yet, thousands of people find a way to get it done every year. Getting into med school isn't supposed to be easy. If you think this is hard....just wait. You ain't seen nothin' yet 🙂.

I doubt a mediocre LOR would do anything to damage a solid application.

And I have a hard time buying that there are thousands of people obtaining D.O. LOR's in the state of Louisiana every year.

Getting into medical school isn't supposed to be "hard". Its supposed to be competitive. But not for trivial reasons like this. Applicants from Pennsylvania and Michigan are better candidates for D.O. schools because there are more D.O.s available to write letters? Hogwash.

 

[scpod]

I doubt a mediocre LOR would do anything to damage a solid application.

And I have a hard time buying that there are thousands of people obtaining D.O. LOR's in the state of Louisiana every year.

Getting into medical school isn't supposed to be "hard". Its supposed to be competitive. But not for trivial reasons like this. Applicants from Pennsylvania and Michigan are better candidates for D.O. schools because there are more D.O.s available to write letters? Hogwash.

You've just gone semantics crazy in this argument. If you have a letter that says "Johhny made C's in my class and was there most of the time" you're gonna draw a red flag. And don't think that there aren't recommendations out there like that because I've seen them. And I'm not talking about literally thousands just from the state of Louisianna. There are plenty of states out there that have few DOs yet a whole lot of people manage to get a DO letter anyway. The big problem is that so many applicants don't plan ahead, wait until the last minute, and try to get out of the reqirement any way they can. Simply put, a whole lot of them are too lazy to make the effort. Not everyone is, but a lot of them are.

And who said PA or MI students were better? They have it a little easier, but they still have to put in the effort. It's a requirement at some schools just like any other requirement. Some schools require extra English or Statistics class. Others require verifiable clinical experience. OK, you think it's stupid. So what? If you don't want to go do it, pick another school.

 

[Wylde]

Hello all,
I need your advice on this matter and would appreciate all your suggestions. I recently shadowed a DO in the hopes of obtaining a recommendation letter. After my three days experience, I politely asked the DO for a letter of recommendation. A minutes letter, the DO responded by saying that he didn’t know me well enough to write me a letter (To be fair, I only got the opportunity to shadow him through the AOA mentor program. So he really doesn’t know me). I was very shocked and I am still trying to figure out if that was his way of refusing to write me a letter. I am in desperate need of a letter and the thought of going through the whole process of trying to find another DO is just very discouraging right now. What do I do? How do I make him know me fast enough to get a letter?

If he says he doesnt know you well enough and does not want to write you a letter, then do you think this letter will be any good!!!

You want LORs from people that know you personally, so that they can write something substantial. LORs from people that do not know you or do not want to write you letters is only going to hurt your application.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

If he says he doesnt know you well enough and does not want to write you a letter, then do you think this letter will be any good!!!

You want LORs from people that know you personally, so that they can write something substantial. LORs from people that do not know you or do not want to write you letters is only going to hurt your application.

I definitely agree with this, but in this case I have to throw in a big HOWEVER.

Only because if a DO LOR is required at a certain school, and securing a crap DO letter is the only alternative to withdrawing from that school, then what's the harm? Of course I would definitely not submit said letter to my other schools because it could severely damage an otherwise good application.

I'm making the assumption that the applicant would be unwilling to continue trying to get a better letter if this doesn't work, due to any number of reasons (getting later in the season/doesn't care about this school that much/holds attractive interviews or acceptances already/etc).