Regretting DO route?

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Anyways, I'm not here to start a big argument. It's just what is literally spammed on these forums by a vocal minority of members on a constant basis seems to have some ulterior motive besides "protecting students" at times which I'm sure even others have picked up on. I appreciate any advice that was made to students that came out of a place of genuinity, which is great, but I question many others. It gives SDN a bad name and the hard working physicians and colleagues that come from those schools a bad name as well. A lot of the information spread here comes from a place of ignorance as none of these "bashers" have actually been through the carib process at a big 3 school, yet here they are posting the most about them. Speaking to an actual alumni is the best way to get information, which seems to be forgotten in these comments from people. It's gotten to the point where people think it's literally someone that works for the school when something positive is posted, which is absolutely terrible. Here's an example of a post from an SGU graduate I saw today on a recent forum which is more accurate. Anyways I'm going to try to get out of here as I prefer to stay back because SDN is a volatile place.

My senior resident on IM last year went to Ross and recently started a cards fellowship. Even he tells you to stay away from carib because the uncertainty of the match is really hard to deal with. For something like cards, where you do residency does matter. It is just that much harder being an IMG.

As a last resort? Okay, if that is your wish, but, you need to know the risks. It just is what it is.
 
Anyways, I'm not here to start a big argument. It's just what is literally spammed on these forums by a vocal minority of members on a constant basis seems to have some ulterior motive besides "protecting students" at times which I'm sure even others have picked up on.

If by “Spammed by a vocal minority” you mean “98% of people on this site who knows what they are talking about” then yeah sure I guess so.

A lot of the information spread here comes from a place of ignorance as none of these "bashers" have actually been through the carib process at a big 3 school, yet here they are posting the most about them.

Data don’t lie
Speaking to an actual alumni is the best way to get information, which seems to be forgotten in these comments from people. It's gotten to the point where people think it's literally someone that works for the school when something positive is posted, which is absolutely terrible.

I’ve never met a Carib grad that was happy they did it. Multiple actually said to go to podiatry than go to the Carib.
Here's an example of a post from an SGU graduate I saw today on a recent forum which is more accurate. Anyways I'm going to try to get out of here as I prefer to stay back because SDN is a volatile place.

That post is also based on a false premise. The argument isn’t ever that doctors who make it out of the Carib aren’t good, it’s that the Carib schools, by function, make it infinitely more difficult to actually get a residency spot.

So once again I repeat, reading must be very very hard for you. You came here with an agenda arguing against boogeymen. I don’t even know when the last time I commented on the Carib was.

Carib medical schools are a bad idea. Pre-meds should avoid them like the plague.
 
My senior resident on IM last year went to Ross and recently started a cards fellowship. Even he tells you to stay away from carib because the uncertainty of the match is really hard to deal with. For something like cards, where you do residency does matter. It is just that much harder being an IMG.

As a last resort? Okay, if that is your wish, but, you need to know the risks. It just is what it is.

Yes I agree with your senior resident. Do not go Big 3 if you are trying to match into certain competitive specialties or are a bad student. Keep trying for US MD/DO. If wanting a very competitive specialty just US MD. Now ask him his opinion if you know you are a strong student with good borderline scores and want to go into a low competitiveness speciality for residency and his answer will be different. In the latter case the carib route will make no difference.

So once again I repeat, reading must be very very hard for you. You came here with an agenda arguing against boogeymen.

All your information is off and coming from a repetitive cycle of regurgitation that you choose to take from sources you poorly understand. If you actually read a first hand account such as the post I linked earlier you'd be less confused. The quoted post I linked previously also answers most of what you quoted but seems you didn't read that before commenting.

I don’t even know when the last time I commented on the Carib was.

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It's not only DO students that bash Carib... I am an MD who also can't wrap my head around why US students go to Carib med school unless they unsuccessfully try at least 3 times for US MD/DO.

What's so hard to wrap your head around? Say you are actually a strong student with good scores but not enough to get into US MD + you want the MD and know you have the work ethic to get it + only interested in the non competitive specialties. Why not go Big 3? Don't know what you mean. Poor students of course (who should not have been in medical school in the first place) should not go about this nor students who want to match into specific programs (which can be said for any school).
 
Yes I agree with your senior resident. Do not go Big 3 if you are trying to match into certain competitive specialties or are a bad student. Keep trying for US MD/DO. If wanting a very competitive specialty just US MD. Now ask him his opinion if you know you are a strong student with good borderline scores and want to go into a low competitiveness speciality for residency and his answer will be different. In the latter case the carib route will make no difference.



All your information is off and coming from a repetitive cycle of regurgitation that you choose to take from sources you poorly understand. If you actually read a first hand account such as the post I linked earlier you'd be less confused. The quoted post I linked previously also answers most of what you quoted but seems you didn't read that before commenting.



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What's so hard to wrap your head around? Say you are actually a strong student with good scores but not enough to get into US MD + you want the MD and know you have the work ethic to get it + only interested in the non competitive specialties. Why not go Big 3? Don't know what you mean. Poor students of course (who should not have been in medical school in the first place) should not go about this nor students who want to match into specific programs (which can be said for any school).

No wonder you are defending the Carib. You have shown 3 times now that you are incapable of the most basic reading comprehension skills.

I’ll let you go through your own post to see if you can figure out what I’m talking about.
 
What's so hard to wrap your head around? Say you are actually a strong student with good scores but not enough to get into US MD + you want the MD and know you have the work ethic to get it + only interested in the non competitive specialties. Why not go Big 3? Don't know what you mean. Poor students of course (who should not have been in medical school in the first place) should not go about this nor students who want to match into specific programs (which can be said for any school).

Ok so let’s just ignore the elephant in the room of attrition and match rates lol. Yes, the Carib MD makes your chances of matching much lower than even poor performing DO students.
 
SDN truly lives up to it's rep. Bravo. If anyone wants a level headed discussion i'll be around.
 
Ok so let’s just ignore the elephant in the room of attrition and match rates lol. Yes, the Carib MD makes your chances of matching much lower than even poor performing DO students.

You keep commenting about reading comprehension however both of these have been discussed multiple times in this thread already.

Yeah I can't imagine that CARS section went very well.

Seems you didn't read the post either 😉
 
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What's so hard to wrap your head around? Say you are actually a strong student with good scores but not enough to get into US MD + you want the MD and know you have the work ethic to get it + only interested in the non competitive specialties. Why not go Big 3? Don't know what you mean. Poor students of course (who should not have been in medical school in the first place) should not go about this nor students who want to match into specific programs (which can be said for any school).

All I am saying is that if I am going to spend 300k, You better damn sure that I am going to have a 99% chance to get something out of it.
 
All I am saying is that if I am going to spend 300k, You better damn sure that I am going to have a 99% chance to get something out of it.

Yes, I agree with this. That is also in the ball park of a correct figure of debt from the big 3 and you shouldn't waste that kind of money. However, if you would survive in a US MD you will survive and match from an off shore Big 3 MD as well. It's not about fliping coins or 60% chances like everyone on here propagates, it's about you. The stories that seem to get repeated the most are those of the students that should not have been there in the first place. Big 3 is not substantially harder like people would have you believe. They don't weed people out either, it's just people that shouldn't have been there in the first place flunking out. Once again, bad student + already low scores I wouldn't recommend it at all. These people may survive at a DO and they should aim for that, but that's questionable if they should really be a physician at that point. It is unfortunate that they lost that money but that was a gamble they took and at least someone gave them the chance.
 
Yes I agree with your senior resident. Do not go Big 3 if you are trying to match into certain competitive specialties or are a bad student. Keep trying for US MD/DO. If wanting a very competitive specialty just US MD. Now ask him his opinion if you know you are a strong student with good borderline scores and want to go into a low competitiveness speciality for residency and his answer will be different. In the latter case the carib route will make no difference.



All your information is off and coming from a repetitive cycle of regurgitation that you choose to take from sources you poorly understand. If you actually read a first hand account such as the post I linked earlier you'd be less confused. The quoted post I linked previously also answers most of what you quoted but seems you didn't read that before commenting.



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What's so hard to wrap your head around? Say you are actually a strong student with good scores but not enough to get into US MD + you want the MD and know you have the work ethic to get it + only interested in the non competitive specialties. Why not go Big 3? Don't know what you mean. Poor students of course (who should not have been in medical school in the first place) should not go about this nor students who want to match into specific programs (which can be said for any school).
During my cycle 2 years ago, I actually considered SGU for a bit, and I talked to a rep that told me the average MCAT was 496 and average GPA was ~3.3. Now, my question for you is how do you know you're a strong student that can succeed with those stats? The problem is everyone think they can succeed until they get hit with reality, and that's the whole basis for Caribbean Med schools. Admit lots of poor performing students, then weed out ~30% of them because there's not even enough rotation spots for them anyway. That's what for-profit means. There's no such thing as a strong student with borderline stats that couldn't get into a US-MD. Strong and boderline can't be in the same sentence here either. Now there is such a thing as strong students with strong stats that couldn't get an acceptance because of an IAs, a Felony, a misdemeanor charge etc... Last but not least, using the same reasoning you did, then if you can't get into a US-MD why not consider a US-DO before the Caribbean MD. The outcome is much better with better support, plus past training years and during training there's no difference, right? Moreover, if you can't get an acceptance into both a US-MD or US-DO, then you have no business considering Med school period.
 
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Yes I agree with your senior resident. Do not go Big 3 if you are trying to match into certain competitive specialties or are a bad student. Keep trying for US MD/DO. If wanting a very competitive specialty just US MD. Now ask him his opinion if you know you are a strong student with good borderline scores and want to go into a low competitiveness speciality for residency and his answer will be different. In the latter case the carib route will make no difference.



All your information is off and coming from a repetitive cycle of regurgitation that you choose to take from sources you poorly understand. If you actually read a first hand account such as the post I linked earlier you'd be less confused. The quoted post I linked previously also answers most of what you quoted but seems you didn't read that before commenting.



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What's so hard to wrap your head around? Say you are actually a strong student with good scores but not enough to get into US MD + you want the MD and know you have the work ethic to get it + only interested in the non competitive specialties. Why not go Big 3? Don't know what you mean. Poor students of course (who should not have been in medical school in the first place) should not go about this nor students who want to match into specific programs (which can be said for any school).

Applying to anything as an IMG with borderline scores is not a good plan, either. Yes, if you want competitive stuff USMD is the best choice 100% of the time
 
Yes I agree with your senior resident. Do not go Big 3 if you are trying to match into certain competitive specialties

Many medical students change their mind about what specialty they want to do during medical school. Why limit your options from the get-go?
 
During my cycle 2 years agi, I actually considered SGU for a bit, and I talked to a rep that told the average MCAT was 496 and average GPA was ~3.3. Now my question is how do you know you're a strong student that can succeed with those stats? The problem everyone think they can succeed until they get hit with reality, and that's the while basis for Caribbean Med schools. Admit lots of poor performing students, then weed out ~30% of them because there's not even enough rotation spots for them anyway. That's what for-profit means. There's no such thing as a strong student with borderline stats that couldn't get into an US-MD. Strong and boderline can't be in the same sentence here. Now there is such a thing as strong students with strong stats that could get an acceptance because of IAs, a Felony, a misdemeanor charge etc... Last but not least, using the same reasoning you did, then if you can't get into a US-MD why not consider a US-DO before the Caribbean MD. The outcome is much better with better support, plus past training there's no difference, right? Moreover, if you can't get an acceptance into both a US-MD or US-DO, then you have no business considering Med school period.

I agree and disagree with certain aspects of your post. First let me clarify I am only referring to the big 3. Other caribs can be shady. Yes, that average GPA and MCAT you mentioned at the start are borderline but there are outliers on both sides of those numbers. People at the average or lower are questionable and should think hard about off shore. Some students at SGU have 515, 3.8 GPA from california, asian, etc. etc. and did not get into US MD due to reasons other than academics plus SGU gave them a large scholarship, they are at 0 risk of not matching or failing out. There is little to no weeding only people that should not have been there, the actual figure is more like half that i'd say at least at SGU. There are also students with good scores that just did not want to wait another cycle, sure name call them impatient, gratfication seeking, poor judgement etc. like i've seen in some posts previously but that is someone's life and it's up to them if they decide waiting another year is worth it or if they believe they are academically strong enough and off shore aligns with their career goals as far as the possible matches and residencies. Prior research on your outcomes is a must. Finally about US-DO vs MD, once again you can name call and say it's for the wrong reasons but some people really care about what's after their name for their whole life, I mean it's a goal you worked for for so long, you can't blame them and once again if they are a strong applicant and it was not academics that kept them out of US MD and you are okay with your prospects then that's not an issue and more a personal choice. The support matters only if you need it though out med school.

Applying to anything as an IMG with borderline scores is not a good plan, either. Yes, if you want competitive stuff USMD is the best choice 100% of the time

I agree with both things you said.

Many medical students change their mind about what specialty they want to do during medical school. Why limit your options from the get-go?

It's different for everyone, you'd be surprised. Some people know exactly what specialty they want even before med school. Same thing for pre-med students some know they want to be a doctor in 1st grade, some barely in the middle of college.
 
What's so hard to wrap your head around? Say you are actually a strong student with good scores but not enough to get into US MD + you want the MD and know you have the work ethic to get it + only interested in the non competitive specialties. Why not go Big 3?

Because it's vanity. You want the MD so badly you don't care that you're going to a place that you may not even graduate from and if you do, you'll have a hell of a chance matching into even the most uncompetitive specialties. But hey, you got the MD. So did the guy coming from St. James Med School. The DO route will give you a chance to actually be a physician.
 
You keep commenting about reading compression however both of these have been discussed multiple times in this thread already.



Seems you didn't read the post either 😉

Lol ok since you have no comprehension let’s point some stuff out for you. First you called @Goro a medical student when they are very obviously an admin, second you call @ciestar a premed when it literally says on their handle that they are an MS-4. Then I say I can’t remember when the last time I posted on a Carib thread and you go and attach a screenshot of a different poster lol. You come on to this random thread to call out some random posters and say we all have insecurities but then do nothing but defend your rational for going to a Caribbean school, highlighting your own insecurities. Oh and not to mention you literally cite an SDN post as refutation against actual statistics.

You truly are the perfect champion for the Carib medical schools.
 
Here is my opinion as an unbiased (moreso) outsider. Always go to the school in your country (therefore USMD USDO > Caribbean or Ireland etc). Then for US people go MD over DO just because you never know what you might want to match in. Only exception I might say is if the debt load is going to be substantially higher (200k cause you went to UCSF or something), or if you are absolutely certain you want to do primary care.

In the end though, why the heck would you regret going any route that gets you to being a doctor. At the end of the day nobody cares if you're a DO or MD GP, or even neurosurgeon. Holy **** the pretentiousness from pre-meds and **** is so annoying. Of course, go the easiest route but if you have the chance to be a DO this year instead of applying another cycle to MD, and you turn that down your mindset is messed up. You may NEVER get into an MD, or another DO program.
 
Lol ok since you have no comprehension let’s point some stuff out for you. First you called @Goro a medical student when they are very obviously an admin,

The mention of goro among other "carib bashers" in the initial post was part of a list of multiple medical students. So it was easier to write medical students, instead of "adcom + med students", do you proof read every little thing you ever post on here and make sure it's immaculate so no one laughs at you? That must be a sad life. Anyways I don't see how trying to continue with this immature behavior is getting you anywhere. I was well aware goro was faculty believe it or not.

second you call @ciestar a premed when it literally says on their handle that they are an MS-4.

I did not bother reading his bio and profile as I'm just replying to things, so I made an assumption. Yes it was an error. However, he has gotten past that and is no longer inflammatory, can you grow up and do the same or are you that flagrant of a person? Especially considering you failed to read anything I wrote.

Then I say I can’t remember when the last time I posted on a Carib thread and you go and attach a screenshot of a different poster lol.

The one who keeps crying about reading issues seems to have some himself? I'll circle it for you with some arrows.
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Because it's vanity. You want the MD so badly you don't care that you're going to a place that you may not even graduate from and if you do, you'll have a hell of a chance matching into even the most uncompetitive specialties. But hey, you got the MD. So did the guy coming from St. James Med School. The DO route will give you a chance to actually be a physician.

I think you should read the posts after this as well as they answer your comment. In summary : If you are a strong student and do not want a competitive specialty you are not at risk from a top 3 carib. Also your idea of how hard it is to match from a top 3 carib is inaccurate but I don't blame you because of some of the crap that is posted here on a daily basis on SDN. Btw St. James is not a top 3 that i'd be referring to. DO is a great route, not for everyone though- it's a personal choice that you must weigh all sides in but neither is wrong.

Here is my opinion as an unbiased (moreso) outsider. Always go to the school in your country (therefore USMD USDO > Caribbean or Ireland etc). Then for US people go MD over DO just because you never know what you might want to match in. Only exception I might say is if the debt load is going to be substantially higher (200k cause you went to UCSF or something), or if you are absolutely certain you want to do primary care.

In the end though, why the heck would you regret going any route that gets you to being a doctor. At the end of the day nobody cares if you're a DO or MD GP, or even neurosurgeon. Holy **** the pretentiousness from pre-meds and **** is so annoying. Of course, go the easiest route but if you have the chance to be a DO this year instead of applying another cycle to MD, and you turn that down your mindset is messed up. You may NEVER get into an MD, or another DO program.

Everyone has their own values and yours are not wrong and someone who choses to go to the carib is not wrong either. It's all about what you are looking to get out of medical school. If you wanted Family medicine and didn't care about residency and are a strong student why not go get MD from the carib? If you don't care about letters then just do DO from the states and have a much more chill time. All good all around. Talk to some alumni it will be the same answers.
 
The mention of goro among other "carib bashers" in the initial post was part of a list of multiple medical students. So it was easier to write medical students, instead of "adcom + med students", do you proof read every little thing you ever post on here and make sure it's immaculate so no one laughs at you? That must be a sad life. Anyways I don't see how trying to continue with this immature behavior is getting you anywhere. I was well aware goro was faculty believe it or not.



I did not bother reading his bio and profile as I'm just replying to things, so I made an assumption. Yes it was an error. However, he has gotten past that and is no longer inflammatory, can you grow up and do the same or are you that flagrant of a person? Especially considering you failed to read anything I wrote.



The one who keeps crying about reading issues seems to have some himself? I'll circle it for you with some arrows.
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I think you should read the posts after this as well as they answer your comment. In summary : If you are a strong student and do not want a competitive specialty you are not at risk from a top 3 carib. Also your idea of how hard it is to match from a top 3 carib is inaccurate but I don't blame you because of some of the crap that is posted here on a daily basis on SDN. Btw St. James is not a top 3 that i'd be referring to. DO is a great route, not for everyone though- it's a personal choice that you must weigh all sides in but neither is wrong.



Everyone has their own values and yours are not wrong and someone who choses to go to the carib is not wrong either. It's all about what you are looking to get out of medical school. If you wanted Family medicine and didn't care about residency and are a strong student why not go get MD from the carib? If you don't care about letters then just do DO from the states and have a much more chill time. All good all around. Talk to some alumni it will be the same answers.

*She :laugh:
 
The mention of goro among other "carib bashers" in the initial post was part of a list of multiple medical students. So it was easier to write medical students, instead of "adcom + med students", do you proof read every little thing you ever post on here and make sure it's immaculate so no one laughs at you? That must be a sad life. Anyways I don't see how trying to continue with this immature behavior is getting you anywhere. I was well aware goro was faculty believe it or not.

Well I most definitely make sure I have my facts straight if I’m going to come on SDN and call out specific people lol.

Nah my life is pretty good, I’m pretty much all set to match a field Carib grads have serious problems getting into.
did not bother reading his bio and profile as I'm just replying to things, so I made an assumption. Yes it was an error. However, he has gotten past that and is no longer inflammatory, can you grow up and do the same or are you that flagrant of a person? Especially considering you failed to read anything I wrote

Once again, I definitely check my facts before I start throwing around insults lol
The one who keeps crying about reading issues seems to have some himself? I'll circle it for you with some arrows.

It is truly astounding how little reading comprehension you have.

You most definitely are the perfect ambassador for the Caribbean schools.
No one needs to highlight the problems with them when there are posters like you around.
 
I have no clue what is going on but I could sense a pointless argument that is going nowhere that I wasn't involved in.

Being that pointless arguments on SDN are my forte, anyone wanna get MemeLord up to speed?
 
I have no clue what is going on but I could sense a pointless argument that is going nowhere that I wasn't involved in.

Being that pointless arguments on SDN are my forte, anyone wanna get MemeLord up to speed?
Carib troll, trollin'. Trolls gotta troll, after all. I have him on Ignore. Suggest the rest of you report him, and then Ignore.
 
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I think you should read the posts after this as well as they answer your comment

I wasn't looking for an answer. I'm an attending, already working at a major academic center. No need to "answer" my comment.

In summary : If you are a strong student

If you were a strong student, you wouldn't need to resort to the Carib for your medical education. No one goes there for the beaches.

and do not want a competitive specialty you are not at risk from a top 3 carib

I'm going to call you out on this because you're lying to people. You are absolutely, positively, 100% at risk from ANY off-shore school, especially as U.S. schools expand.

Also your idea of how hard it is to match from a top 3 carib is inaccurate

Show me data. Show me the number of matriculants on the first day of orientation at SGU, followed by stats of how many of those same people graduated and matched without SOAPing.

it's a personal choice that you must weigh all sides in but neither is wrong.

Not "wrong," per se, just done out of vanity. Gotta have that MD.
 
Anyways, I'm not here to start a big argument. It's just what is literally spammed on these forums by a vocal minority of members on a constant basis seems to have some ulterior motive besides "protecting students" at times which I'm sure even others have picked up on. I appreciate any advice that was made to students that came out of a place of genuinity, which is great, but I question many others. It gives SDN a bad name and the hard working physicians and colleagues that come from those schools a bad name as well. A lot of the information spread here comes from a place of ignorance as none of these "bashers" have actually been through the carib process at a big 3 school, yet here they are posting the most about them. Speaking to an actual alumni is the best way to get information, which seems to be forgotten in these comments from people. It's gotten to the point where people think it's literally someone that works for the school when something positive is posted, which is absolutely terrible. Here's an example of a post from an SGU graduate I saw today on a recent forum which is more accurate. Anyways I'm going to try to get out of here as I prefer to stay back because SDN is a volatile place.

So, if we take Ross as an example.
Trimester class size is 400-600. That's 1200-1800 students per each MS year.

They matched 668 to residency (including previous graduates who didn't get a residency in the years before). It's not possible to discern how many didn't match because Ross hides this data. It's also not possible to determine their 4 year.

That's a 37-56% start to residency rate.

If we take the residencies listed from the person you quoted and look at what % matched:
PM&R: 5/668 (2 categorical, rest prelim/transitional) = 0.7%
Psychiatry: 28/668 = 4.2%
EM: 25/668 = 3.7%
OBGYN: 5/668 = 0.7%
Gen Surg: 14/668 = 2.1%

So going to Ross yields, in order of likelihood:
1. You fail out/are dismissed.
2. Community IM/any FM
3. Academic IM

I don't need to have gone through a Carib MD school to know half the class failing out is bad. People don't bash on these schools because they're insecure or just hate Carib schools for some reason. They do it because its a poor option compared to just going DO.

And yes, if you do make it through, pass boards, get a residency and become a physician, which school you went to stops mattering.
 
Attending a DO school allowed me to pursue what I wanted. Had I attended an MD school, I would have still gone into neurology.

The only difference is that I would have delayed my matriculation by 1-2 years to do a SMP and effectively lost 300-600k worth in future income. IMO, that is well worth the endless hours I put into OMM, a subject that I hated the most.

No regrets
 
For current or former DO students, do any of you regret doing a DO program? Or do you know classmates who regret it? If so, what are the main reasons you or others regret it? How did being in a DO program compare to what you had expected before you matriculated? Was it better or worse? And what aspects surprised you most in a positive /negative way? Thanks !

No, but it is not for those who are not self-driven when it counts. Unlike our MD counterparts, we often have to go into other people's houses (AKA traditional MD hospitals) and not just have excellent scores but perform at an exemplary level. The end result is obviously good -- most DOs perform at a high level.

If you can't do that or can't develop those habits, the DO route may not be for you. At this point, having a DO degree is neutral at most programs.

I am surprised daily in the practice of pain medicine how often my osteopathic palpation skills are of benefit. My understanding of myofascial strain, acute/chronic musculoskeletal pain, and its contributions to my allopathic specialty (anesthesiology/pain medicine) is really bar none and I can honestly thank my PCOM education for that to a significant degree.

Good luck with your decision.
 
The Nephrologist I work for has not discouraged me in the slightest from wanting to apply mostly DO. He is an MD, also. I think the stigma arises from people who just want to see a huge difference when there is none.

And I take issue with those who try to de facto rationalize and repackage a situation into something comforting and pleasant.

Being a DO is different. Embrace those differences. I think being a DO has given me a style that resonates with patients and therefore makes me a happier physician. I could have done this as an MD for sure -- but I am proud and grateful for my education (as miserable as medical education is to the sane).
 
I'm a DO...last year of residency. My thoughts on this:

I'm getting more job offers now than I can keep up with. They offer me the same amount they would an MD. No one cares if you're MD or DO in the hospital/clinic. Only people that care seem to be pre-meds with a personal/family/cultural need for the "prestige" of being a doctor.

I enjoyed OMM in med school, but didn't think I'd ever use it in practice... I now get patients that come to me specifically for OMT. OMT is a billable procedure... You can look at it in this way: I have another treatment modality to offer patients, and another way to bring in more money.

All in all, I have no regrets. Woulda been fine either way. I got to where I wanted to be 🙂
 
To an extent. Simply because I want a competitive residency field I know it will be harder as a DO. I know we spend hundreds of hours on OMM that MD students can use to further prep for boards. Mostly I kick myself because I did not study at all for the MCATs and so my 504 was not very competitive at MD standards despite my 3.85 GPA being well above DO averages. So would I go back and fix my mistakes if I could? Sure. I'd rather I learned my lesson on the MCAT than on USMLE. But either way I'll get to where I want to be and right now I really enjoy my DO school.
 
Just finished orientation, and I feel this imposter syndrome deeply. Many of my classmates have incredible stories to tell, and I’m just me, from a super rural background (with the heavy drawl to prove it) who just wants to be a doctor and go back there. I feel quite plain and mediocre often among this group.
Ignore that BS. Its all talk. I'm from a rural background and I think it gives you way better context into how to work with people than just being some rich kid who's first car was a BMW and has no idea what working or financial struggles are like. Experience is invaluable. In philosophy, its called 'epistemic privilege' 😉. Flaunt that experiential wisdom baby
 
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This is a difficult question. I am a 3rd year and was regretting medical school a lot in general during 2nd year. The thing is, you never know if you are going to like clinical medicine until you get there (in 3rd year rotations).

Once I finished Step 1 and Level 1, I was almost in the position of considering quitting. I talked it over with my wife etc. I did well and everything, but I was absolutely hating everything that my school was dishing out at me. There was no support or anything for board studying and tons of BS time-wasting. People here are saying 'medical school is difficult'. As a premed reading this, you are probably thinking of difficult in terms of 'academically difficult'. Thats really not the problem--the problem is the endless bureacracy, time-sucking, irrelevant lectures, hundreds of hours of OMM, unecessary pass/rail requirements on superfluous assignments, and a climate where curiosity and questions are not the foundation of learning--but rather rote memorization. Going from literally being the top graduating student at my undergrad program in my science department where questions, theoretical knowledge, and research were all the utmost importance to mostly rote memorizing every f***ing letter, number, and chart on dozens of powerpoints every week was EXTREMELY disheartening to me. I slowly learned not to ask why or really delve in deep as I had before. In a sense, medical school taught me how to acquire information fast and efficiently, but the speed and pace of material was extremely frustrating to me. Beyond that, the most difficult aspects were NOT the actual learning and the fact that the time in which we had to learn was already rushed, but that my school also chose to waste hundreds and hundreds of precious hours on pointless lectures and classes. Really, the medical education system is just very broken and incongruent between programs.

Fast forward to 3rd year, and I have never enjoyed a job more than what I am experiencing in clinical medicine via rotations! I've been happy on most days--even when getting pimped for 5 hours straight by a surgeon cussing and yelling at me. Medicine is SUCH an awesome field. The thing is--medical knowledge is not just book knowledge. It starts becoming an innate and intuitive way of thinking and it is such a cool process to be a part of. The layman can read about medical information online--but they will never have the gut instincts and context that we have the good fortune of learning in our training programs. As a physician, you are the brain behind all of medicine. You see it all and understand how all the organ systems, symptoms, and social aspects fit together. There is nothing like it--the knowledge we are getting from this experience is beyond value. Think about it--even when a millionaire gets sick, all of their net worth pales in comparison to the knowledge necessary for that person's health to presumably improve. Sure, they may have the money to find the best care, but that knowledge is beyond value when put into a situation of life/death/quality of life. The position this puts you in as a physician is extremely humbling. Rich and poor alike rely on you in a way that only you can assist them. For me, the beauty of it all is that critical thinking and questions all sort of come back once you hit rotations. Med schools treat you like a little computer automaton in the first 2 years then all of a sudden give you permission to think again.

So, when you as a premed read that 'medical school is hard'--its not in the way you are imagining it. You have to put up with a ton of BS, suspend your criticisms of flawed systems, never talk back, not ask questions, and just go along with the herd. Standing out has its consequences. The level of BS you endure is dependent on your school and curriculum. I have never really regretted anything in life, as there is no point in that. But reason and data show you should go to the best school possible, all things considered. DO has disadvantages and they are only getting worse in the long run. Do everything you can to get into an MD program in the states. I had the stats to apply to MD schools but didn't for personal reasons--it wasn't the most advisable decision and everyone on here told me not to do it. In the end, it's your life and no one can tell you what is best for you. Take control of whatever you can by gathering as much information/data to make an informed decision based on your individual needs and try to realize all of the possible consequences. We are all here to help answer any specific questions you have.
 
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Attending a DO school allowed me to pursue what I wanted. Had I attended an MD school, I would have still gone into neurology.

The only difference is that I would have delayed my matriculation by 1-2 years to do a SMP and effectively lost 300-600k worth in future income. IMO, that is well worth the endless hours I put into OMM, a subject that I hated the most.

No regrets
Thanks for all of your tips along the way. Hope residency is going well man! I'm in between neuro, psych and FM--we'll see how it goes!
 
2017 graduate from DO school. No regrets. Definitely creates certain barriers that MDs don't have to deal with so if you're accepted to a USMD school I suggest you go there automatically. But I wouldn't delay my education and forgo DO school just to get into an MD school.

Nice to see you around. Same experience. Literally the day I matched I realized it made no difference me going to a DO school. It was hit or miss before that, and I had doubts, but matching where I wanted made me realize that I wouldn't have done any better going MD. Maybe I'd have more prestige or have less people asking me to fix their backs, but other than that, no difference.

This is a difficult question. I am a 3rd year and was regretting medical school a lot in general during 2nd year. The thing is, you never know if you are going to like clinical medicine until you get there (in 3rd year rotations).

Once I finished Step 1 and Level 1, I was almost in the position of considering quitting. I talked it over with my wife etc. I did well and everything, but I was absolutely hating everything that my school was dishing out at me. There was no support or anything for board studying and tons of BS time-wasting. People here are saying 'medical school is difficult'. As a premed reading this, you are probably thinking of difficult in terms of 'academically difficult'. Thats really not the problem--the problem is the endless bureacracy, time-sucking, irrelevant lectures, hundreds of hours of OMM, unecessary pass/rail requirements on superfluous assignments, and a climate where curiosity and questions are not the foundation of learning--but rather rote memorization. Going from literally being the top graduating student at my undergrad program in my science department where questions, theoretical knowledge, and research were all the utmost importance to mostly rote memorizing every f***ing letter, number, and chart on dozens of powerpoints every week was EXTREMELY disheartening to me. I slowly learned not to ask why or really delve in deep as I had before. In a sense, medical school taught me how to acquire information fast and efficiently, but the speed and pace of material was extremely frustrating to me. Beyond that, the most difficult aspects were NOT the actual learning and the fact that the time in which we had to learn was already rushed, but that my school also chose to waste hundreds and hundreds of precious hours on pointless lectures and classes. Really, the medical education system is just very broken and incongruent between programs.

Fast forward to 3rd year, and I have never enjoyed a job more than what I am experiencing in clinical medicine via rotations! I've been happy on most days--even when getting pimped for 5 hours straight by a surgeon cussing and yelling at me. Medicine is SUCH an awesome field. The thing is--medical knowledge is not just book knowledge. It starts becoming an innate and intuitive way of thinking and it is such a cool process to be a part of. The layman can read about medical information online--but they will never have the gut instincts and context that we have the good fortune of learning in our training programs. As a physician, you are the brain behind all of medicine. You see it all and understand how all the organ systems, symptoms, and social aspects fit together. There is nothing like it--the knowledge we are getting from this experience is beyond value. Think about it--even when a millionaire gets sick, all of their net worth pales in comparison to the knowledge necessary for that person's health to presumably improve. Sure, they may have the money to find the best care, but that knowledge is beyond value when put into a situation of life/death/quality of life. The position this puts you in as a physician is extremely humbling. Rich and poor alike rely on you in a way that only you can assist them. For me, the beauty of it all is that critical thinking and questions all sort of come back once you hit rotations. Med schools treat you like a little computer automaton in the first 2 years then all of a sudden give you permission to think again.

So, when you as a premed read that 'medical school is hard'--its not in the way you are imagining it. You have to put up with a ton of BS, suspend your criticisms of flawed systems, never talk back, not ask questions, and just go along with the herd. Standing out has its consequences. The level of BS you endure is dependent on your school and curriculum. I have never really regretted anything in life, as there is no point in that. But reason and data show you should go to the best school possible, all things considered. DO has disadvantages and they are only getting worse in the long run. Do everything you can to get into an MD program in the states. I had the stats to apply to MD schools but didn't for personal reasons--it wasn't the most advisable decision and everyone on here told me not to do it. In the end, it's your life and no one can tell you what is best for you. Take control of whatever you can by gathering as much information/data to make an informed decision based on your individual needs and try to realize all of the possible consequences. We are all here to help answer any specific questions you have.

Medicine if freakin awesome. I hate my life on the regular though in residency, but I love what I'm practicing. Residency sucks so much more than med school, but at least you are a little closer to doing what you were meant to do. You actually start to picture how you will practice in the future, actually begin to hone that knowledge and skill, and build those patient relationships.

Just to warn you though, that stuff you mentioned, "bureacracy, time-sucking, irrelevant lectures, ...unecessary pass/rail requirements on superfluous assignments", a lot of that stuff continues in residency.
 
I don’t regret going DO, but I also matched the specialty I wanted to match. I know too many DOs who I applied to my specialty with who did not match. I would probably be singing a different tune had I not matched.

Now that I am almost halfway through residency, I’m pretty proud to be a DO. Not proud of the AOA and bull **** OMM or my leach of a DO school—just proud that I was able to make in into this career/specialty despite the bias.
 
I don’t regret going DO, but I also matched the specialty I wanted to match. I know too many DOs who I applied to my specialty with who did not match. I would probably be singing a different tune had I not matched.

Now that I am almost halfway through residency, I’m pretty proud to be a DO. Not proud of the AOA and bull **** OMM or my leach of a DO school—just proud that I was able to make in into this career/specialty despite the bias.
Are you in Gen Surg or Neurosurg?
 
Attending a DO school allowed me to pursue what I wanted. Had I attended an MD school, I would have still gone into neurology.

The only difference is that I would have delayed my matriculation by 1-2 years to do a SMP and effectively lost 300-600k worth in future income. IMO, that is well worth the endless hours I put into OMM, a subject that I hated the most.

No regrets

Does anyone have an argument against this. I'm not saying it isn't a good idea. I just wanted to see if someone had a different prospective that an extra year doing an SMP and losing 300-600k in future income to get into a MD school instead and avoid OMM would be a better option.
 
Does anyone have an argument against this. I'm not saying it isn't a good idea. I just wanted to see if someone had a different prospective that an extra year doing an SMP and losing 300-600k in future income to get into a MD school instead and avoid OMM would be a better option.
If you want anything competitive (Ortho, Derm, NSurg, Ophto, ENT, IR, Surgery subspecialties), then yeah it's worth going MD over DO.

Sent from my SM-G973U using SDN mobile
 
Does anyone have an argument against this. I'm not saying it isn't a good idea. I just wanted to see if someone had a different prospective that an extra year doing an SMP and losing 300-600k in future income to get into a MD school instead and avoid OMM would be a better option.
Not everybody wants to get into the Uber-specialites. Some people want to be doctors sooner than later.

And I hope that you're sitting down for this, but PC docs can make bank too.

EDIT: not all MD schools reward reinvention. Even with those that do, there is no guarantee that a reinventor will get accepted by them

And not all reinventors can get an MD-school caliber MCAT score either.
 
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If you want anything competitive (Ortho, Derm, NSurg, Ophto, ENT, IR, Surgery subspecialties), then yeah it's worth going MD over DO.

Sent from my SM-G973U using SDN mobile
If you can make the grade in MD school. Many candidates who cant get into an MD school still think they can score 255 on step 1 and match neurosurg. Allopathic schools have more options for good students.
 
Does anyone have an argument against this. I'm not saying it isn't a good idea. I just wanted to see if someone had a different prospective that an extra year doing an SMP and losing 300-600k in future income to get into a MD school instead and avoid OMM would be a better option.
I would attend an smp if it meant MD over DO. I’ll likely match my desired field as it stands now. But my reach programs now would essentially be safeties. With all the med student expansion happening now it’s only going to get worse. Go MD if you can.
 
I would attend an smp if it meant MD over DO. I’ll likely match my desired field as it stands now. But my reach programs now would essentially be safeties. With all the med student expansion happening now it’s only going to get worse. Go MD if you can.
Absolutely no doubt the competetion will get worse before it gets better
 
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