Rejected from ALL (13) MD/PhD and MSTP programs I applied to. What should be my next steps

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Meddizzle

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So I just got the final rejection from the 13 programs (MD/PhD and MSTP) that I applied to. It was the only program I received an interview at, and I felt like I had a pretty solid chance there since the interview went extremely well. Also, please brace your self, I made some HORRIBLE mistakes for this application. I reiterate, I understand the major flaws with my application, I simply didn't do enough to fully understand the expectations for a good MD/PhD application.

I ask for advice for my next steps, if I should apply to this upcoming cycle (and take a gap year) or the following one (and take two gap years). Also, I am dead set on MD/PhD, I do not want MD only. I aspire to become a physician-scientist, and I am willing to do whatever it takes. If worse comes to worst, and I take two gap years and fail to get into any MD/PhD or MSTP after 2 reapplications, I will likely fall back on a PhD.

Here is my app info
  • Year in School: Senior, B.S. Biomedical Engineering, Minor in Physics
  • Country/state of residence: North Carolina
  • Schools I applied to (all MD/PhD or MSTP): Boston University, Columbia, UCLA, Duke, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Oregon Health and Science University, Stanford, UCSF, UNC, University of Washington, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest
  • Cumulative GPA: 3.74
  • Science GPA: 3.72
  • MCAT Score: 508 (~31) (77th percentile, 127 Chem, 126 CARS, 127 Bio, 128 Psyc, 08/06/2015)
  • Research: Summer Research during high school in nano scale protein simulation lab. Current undergraduate researcher with a stem cell research lab in my university (~4 years with this lab by the time I graduate, I joined the summer before my freshman year). Worked on multiple projects that yielded poster presentations, conference attendances, a conference talk co-author, and 1 publication. I also won 3 consecutive undergraduate research scholarships that funded my research for 3 years.
  • Volunteering (clinical): None
  • Physician shadowing: 60 hours with two Orthopedic Surgeons
  • Non-clinical volunteering: I have done some community service during high school, but nothing worth noting during my undergraduate career
  • Extracurricular activities: Little outside of research.
  • Employment history: Laboratory Maintenance for all labs in my BME department for 1.5 years. Tutor of Physics and Chemistry for one summer.
  • Immediate family members in medicine?: None
  • Specialty of interest: Biomedical Engineering, Tissue Engineering or Regenerative Medicine (PhD), Orthopaedics, Emergency Medicine (MD)
So yes, I am aware of some glaring issues with my application. My school list was a bit.. ambitious. Now I realized I have a horribly designed school list. While building it, I really just wanted to stay within my state of residence (or nearby), so I was really aiming for Duke, UNC and Wake Forest. I also know my MCAT is pretty low for MD/PhD and MSTP programs. UNC is my DREAM school, and their median for their MD/PhD is a 3.75 GPA and 35 (~515) MCAT.

Another negative aspect of my application was my lack of service, but I hoped my commitment and success in research would overshadow that. When asked about my weakness during my interview, I said my weakness was service, but the interviewer seemed to understand that and mentioned my commitment to research. Another large factor contributing to my lack of success probably has to do with how late I applied. I submitted my application on OCTOBER 1st, and I am now aware of how dumb of a mistake that was.

So for now, my next steps include, retaking the MCAT by late May, early June. I am confident I can get the score up to be more competitive for MD/PhD and MSTP (aiming for 515+ or 35+). I am also now looking for gap year opportunities, such as applying for research assistant jobs and NIH IRTA. I will also try to commit to some volunteering. I will also get the application in as early as possible (in the cycle I decide to aim for).

My GPA is expected to increase slightly after my final semester in university (all A's so far this semester), and I plan to continue making progress with my undergraduate research.

I ask, is my plan good? Is there anything else I should do to improve my outcome for the next cycle? Any advice for gap year opportunities? Should I hold off applying this cycle, and commit to 2 gap years and apply to the one after? I am starting to think I might have to take two years to really make my application MD/PhD worthy, if I somehow got lucky and found an amazing clinical experience opportunity within the next few months, get a 35+ on the MCAT by June, get a better school list, apply early, and maybe make more accomplishments in my research, would I stand a chance for this upcoming cycle?

Thank you!

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Hi, Meddizzle!! I am truly sorry to hear about how things have gone for you this cycle. The whole application process is so hard and so drawn out. Sigh.... I really wish things could have gone better for you!! I also have somewhat similar stats to yours, so I feel your pain. However, I received 4 interviews this cycle (3 MSTP, 1 fully funded MD/PhD) and should hopefully have an acceptance in the coming weeks, as I am on multiple waitlists but am #1 on a waitlist right now. So it can be done! I mention this because I can identify a lot with your situation and can imagine the frustration and devastation. I wanted to share some of my thoughts and ideas with you.

First, I think you've done a really nice job of analyzing your application. Your attitude is excellent in that you are acknowledging your mistakes and moving forward. That is so incredibly hard to do, and I really commend you for that! With that being said, here are the things that out to me as issues that are currently on your application. The great news is that pretty much all of them can be solved! I will list them in order of importance, although I will emphasize that all really should be addressed:

1. Late application. Submitting your primary in October (if I understand correctly?), especially if you're not a stats superstar, is lethal. Now that you realize this, if you do re-apply with the same stats package, I highly encourage you to submit EARLY. And I mean early -- my AMCAS was in on the first day, and I flipped each secondary around within 2-3 days to be done by mid-July. You don't necessarily have to be completely this early, but being done by August makes you more competitive because there are less applicants to compete against and gives the school more chances to see why you're awesome.

2. School list is too heavy, as you identified. I count maybe 2 schools where, based on your stats and package, you were competitive to receive an interview (not considering the timing of your application). Of course, you might always pick up an interview at a reach school, but you want to give yourself lots more diversity in programs and options. I learned this cycle that you can always decline acceptances or decline interview invites, but you can't create them if they aren't coming! I also applied pretty high and regret that now, although I think the early application gave me some leeway there.

3. No volunteering

4. No ECs (? You say little -- maybe there's something here?) or leadership

The great news is that, if I understand right, your research seems pretty solid to me. I'm surprised by the interviewer's comment. You mentioned that you will have ~4 years of research with presentations, etc. Did you mean that you only did research during the summers though, or did you also do research during the school years in between? (If only during the summers, this is an likely the issue that the interviewer meant). Is your hour count really low?

My suggestion would be to take 2 years off, if you can spare it. I think there's just too much to cram in in terms of clinical/volunteering/ECs (schools can definitely see that you did all of them in the 1 month before applications -- this would come across as box-checking). I also think you should be able to devote significant time to studying for the MCAT -- it is harder to improve than we normally think without changing many of your methods, plus taking the MCAT in June would already put you behind the ideal timeline and not give you much wiggle room. As a side note, your current score translates to a 30, not a 31. Not a huge difference, but I wanted to clarify.

Since it seems like your research is fairly strong, I would maybe see if you can just keep it up part-time. In your spare time, I would strongly suggest volunteering -- pick one clinical place and one non-clinical place if you can and show a sustained commitment (1 year or more) to them. Even 1 hour per week at each will add up quickly. Additionally, use the time you are not working to study for the MCAT. Then in maybe January of next year, re-take the MCAT and get ready to crush it next year!

With the above plan, I think you could be an incredibly competitive applicant. Your GPA is good, and that is often the hardest thing to fix. So great job there! With a new MCAT and some volunteering/ECs, I think your application could be hard to beat. Keep hanging in there!
 
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4. No ECs (? You say little -- maybe there's something here?) or leadership

What really counts as EC's, I would say my research experience was really the only major EC I committed to. I did not really get involved in clubs or official sports, I really just cared about my undergraduate research. I mentored several students in my lab over the years, and I spun that as a leadership role I had in my application. Also, I committed to this lab extensively, both during the semesters AND over the summers (I really like this lab LOL). So you feel as though there is not really enough time for me to make a significant boost to my application for this upcoming cycle? Even if I think I can scratch out a 35+ on the MCAT within the next few months?

For my gap year I plan on getting a research assistant job (or NIH IRTA, I have received an offer already), and I plan to commit to volunteering during that time as well. I am definitely considering a second gap year more now. Thank yous so much!!!
 
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First off, I'm sorry this cycle didn't go well for you. This was my second cycle applying and I understand how painful it is to receive that final rejection of the cycle. If you have specific questions about what I did, feel free to PM me.


It sounds like your plan is off to a good start and that you have an idea of what to improve.

If I were you here is what I would work on:

1. MCAT. Dedicate some solid time to studying for the MCAT. Pick a date and stick to it. If you are graduating in May, I would suggest taking the MCAT no earlier than July or August so that you can really focus on studying once you are done with school.

2. Volunteer. Find something you are passionate about or that means something to you and find a way to help a group associated with that cause. Obviously you can volunteer at anything, but it helps if you can explain why you chose to volunteer for that particular organization. For example, I tried to volunteer with the needle exchange truck because much of my work is in addiction and I hope to continue in that area. When that didn't work (they had too many volunteers!), I reached out to a few organizations dealing with familial bereavement (something my family had experienced years earlier) and asked how I could help. It's important to be able to explain why you chose to volunteer somewhere, without just saying "I needed volunteer hours".

3. ECs. This goes along with volunteering. Because you have so few ECs/leadership experiences, you might want to find a couple areas you can be involved in. Are there any mentoring groups that you can join and provide mentoring to people going through high school or college? This type of experience would demonstrate more leadership qualities.

4. Keep shadowing. It doesn't have to be much, but just a few more hours here and there to show you haven't lost interest over the year or two out.

5. Find a flexible job, you obviously have a great research background so this is less of a necessity and more something to provide you with income and employment that is relevant to your future interests. If possible find a job that allows for some leadership roles to demonstrate your abilities in that area.

6. Finally, school list. It is good to shoot high, but make sure to have a wide range. My method the second time around was to look at every MD/PhD program that had a PhD in my program of interest. Then look deeper at the program and make sure there were faculty researching in areas that matched my interests. This left me with about 60 programs that I broke up into 4 categories based on average GPA and MCAT of matriculants. Then I allowed myself a certain ratio of schools from each category based on my own MCAT and GPA and how that related to the schools. This meant that I had a more even spread of schools to apply to.


I think that it might be difficult to reapply this summer and make significant changes, so if it is possible you might want to consider taking 2 years off to make sure you can have a well rounded application.

Good luck with everything, you definitely have a solid foundation with your GPA and research, and with a few changes you will find yourself fighting off interviews invites next time around!
 
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Because you have so few ECs/leadership experiences
In my application I placed a lot of emphasis on my research experience. I was really involved in the lab, and after gaining some seniority, I got to mentor 3 students (2 from the university and 1 brilliant high schooler who scored 99th percentile on her SAT O: ). I essentially trained them to be self sufficient in the stem cell lab, and be useful for projects they were interested in helping in. I also gave them general advice for pursuing research careers and careers in medicine. Would that count as a solid 'EC' or leadership experience?

Thank you for your input!!!
 
What really counts as EC's, I would say my research experience was really the only major EC I committed to. I did not really get involved in clubs or official sports, I really just cared about my undergraduate research. I mentored several students in my lab over the years, and I spun that as a leadership role I had in my application. Also, I committed to this lab extensively, both during the semesters AND over the summers (I really like this lab LOL). So you feel as though there is not really enough time for me to make a significant boost to my application for this upcoming cycle? Even if I think I can scratch out a 35+ on the MCAT within the next few months?

For my gap year I plan on getting a research assistant job (or NIH IRTA, I have received an offer already), and I plan to commit to volunteering during that time as well. I am definitely considering a second gap year more now. Thank yous so much!!!

Thanks for your reply! Yes, I would not count research as an EC -- it is generally just its own category of research. Remember that for many schools, to be considered for MSTP, you have to pass the MD side first. It will be hard to do so with no volunteering and no activities other than school and research. Of course, I could be wrong on this one, but this is my experience. Typical ECs would be clubs/orgs/anything outside of class. Oftentimes, I think this category is used to encompass many things -- clinical volunteering, scribing, being active in a club, leading an organization, playing an instrument... basically anything that gives you a life story. Even lumping things that you did because of your research (like mentoring other students in the lab) generally, in my experience, wouldn't merit its own category. That's often just what it is to be a part of a lab, and it wasn't actually a separate experience.

I'm starting to think that your interviewer's comment meant that you were TOO involved in your research, ha. I wouldn't take that specific part at face value (there can never be too much research experience) for that reason, but I think what he may have been getting at is that it didn't leave you time to do some of the other things that are expected of an application. So again, I think it circles back around to ECs and volunteering.

In theory, if it were possible for you to very quickly cram in some volunteer work (it still may not be sustained enough to pass the MD side of some schools) and do extremely well on the MCAT (have you changed anything about your study habits? What will be different than last time?), you may have some chances. Remember, however, that there might be some schools that average your MCAT, so even a 36 will give you an overall 33. Now a 33 is a great and solid score, but if you're again applying a little bit late and with some weaknesses in your application that still haven't been completely addressed, you are doing yourself a bit of a disservice.

So yes, of course nothing is to stop you from applying again this cycle. And with at least a better school list and some work to address the issues we've both mentioned, I think it would be unfair to say that you have no chances anywhere. But I also do think that if you were to take another year and really work on these things in a more long-term commitment (not just for applications, but also to give yourself more time to appreciate and enjoy volunteering -- it is really the best!), you would be potentially competitive for some of the very top programs.

In the end, it's all up to you -- if you really need to get ready for this cycle and can't (financially, family dynamics, or whatever it is) spare another cycle, just be as smart about it as you can and proceed, and very best of luck to you!! But if you're wanting to be the strongest applicant you possibly can be, I think waiting another year would be smart. Whatever you end up deciding, I wish you happiness and success!
 
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Those who get into the MD/Ph.D. program at Johns Hopkins, and the like, are some of the best students in the world. Cursory examination of your app looks like you would do well looking at a mid-tier MD program; or, go Ph.D. alone. You want to be a doctor or a researcher?
 
In my application I placed a lot of emphasis on my research experience. I was really involved in the lab, and after gaining some seniority, I got to mentor 3 students (2 from the university and 1 brilliant high schooler who scored 99th percentile on her SAT O: ). I essentially trained them to be self sufficient in the stem cell lab, and be useful for projects they were interested in helping in. I also gave them general advice for pursuing research careers and careers in medicine. Would that count as a solid 'EC' or leadership experience?

Thank you for your input!!!

I apologize, I did not mean to make it seem like I thought you didn't have EC/leadership experience. I know that research can take up a lot of time, and from what you wrote in response to @starfun21 it certainly seems like you have a lot of EC experience when it comes to research.

I think your work in lab and mentoring would definitely count as leadership experience, make sure to emphasize that in your application.

My concern is with well-roundedness. I am not an adcom so I am not sure how much "other" EC activities schools would like you to have. Your research work shows your dedication and ability to really follow through with something, and is certainly much better than taking up a new activity each semester. Hopefully an adcom will be able to chime in about how much more variety you will need in your application (if any).
 
Is your hour count really low?
I would say my hour count hits the 1500-2000 hour range. I was heavily involved with this lab! It is hard for me to estimate. Some weeks I honestly did like 30 hours of work, then others weeks would just be 1-2 hours.
 
Ah, the benefits of a forum with multiple responses! I think @inky (hi friend! Congrats again on your recent acceptance -- so happy for you!) and I just gave you slightly contradictory advice :D We most certainly seem to agree on the meat of the application though. I could not agree with the above more as well when inky points out the well-roundedness of your application. Remember again that you will have to pass the MD side as well, and with research as your one main focus, this will be hard. Whether or not you count the mentoring as an EC/leadership (and really, maybe it should/could? Not sure, but the point remains the same), the narrow focus of your application may be something holding you back.

Most schools will absolutely love the depth to which you have pursued your work, so I think we can all agree that this is excellent. And EDIT to emphasize this: research is the SINGLE most important part of an application. I think you have nailed that, which is why I think that you have the potential to be an incredibly competitive applicant. Just based on my experiences, I would also highly encourage you to spend some time adding on some more dimensions to your application that are a bit outside of research.

In regards to the comment you just posted, yes! I would see my second response for addressing that one. I understand that the interviewer didn't mean that your research was too light (that's how I read your wording the first time, which is why I was surprised), but I think he instead may have meant that it was too much the only focus of your application, as I mentioned above.

Of course, again, I'm only a current applicant and these are only my thoughts with what I've learned this cycle. I really wish you all of the best and hope that schools are sweeping you up next time around! Very best wishes for the future!
 
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Those who get into the MD/Ph.D. program at Johns Hopkins, and the like, are some of the best students in the world. Cursory examination of your app looks like you would do well looking at a mid-tier MD program; or, go Ph.D. alone. You want to be a doctor or a researcher?
Yes I know applying to the top 10 schools was extremely ambitious, when designing my list I just wanted to stay close to NC, and I felt like slapping on the top schools just for fun (foolish I know). At the time I was not that aware of the mediocre nature of my application, and that the chances for me to get in a top 10 were essentially zero.

I want to be a physician-scientist, I want a medical professional's knowledge and to lead transnational biomedical research. I will do what ever it takes to get into an MD/PhD. I am mainly interested in research, but I see huge value in being able to understand and practice medicine.
 
I can relate to you in many ways as I applied MD/PhD with a low GPA and a low MCAT for MD/PhD programs. I was unsure of how to go about applying as my scores fell far below the standards for MSTP. PM me if you want to know more about my application.

I think that ultimately, you are applying to medical school and in order to garner any interest from programs you are going to need to display that you understand what a career in medicine entails and that you are compassionate and want to spend your career serving/helping others. Having neither clinical nor non-clinical volunteer hours is a big red flag in this regard. I would be curious to know why medical school and not just a PhD if I saw an application with no service work.
You should take a look at the AAMC Core Competencies for entering medical students. Here I just copied one of the 4 major Competencies. In your description of your application I don't see how you demonstrated this major attributes without any volunteering.

"Interpersonal Competencies
Service Orientation: Demonstrates a desire to help others and sensitivity to others’ needs and feelings; demonstrates a desire to alleviate others’ distress; recognizes and acts on his/her responsibilities to society; locally, nationally, and globally.

Social Skills: Demonstrates an awareness of others’ needs, goals, feelings, and the ways that social and behavioral cues affect peoples’ interactions and behaviors; adjusts behaviors appropriately in response to these cues; treats others with respect.

Cultural Competence: Demonstrates knowledge of socio-cultural factors that affect interactions and behaviors; shows an appreciation and respect for multiple dimensions of diversity; recognizes and acts on the obligation to inform one’s own judgment; engages diverse and competing perspectives as a resource for learning, citizenship, and work; recognizes and appropriately addresses bias in themselves and others; interacts effectively with people from diverse backgrounds."



How was your personal statement? I think that in the end, my personal statement really helped me out. I had a very cohesive, organic story behind why I wanted to pursue medicine and how that interest evolved from wanting to pursue just bench science. Having a fluid story that weaves your story/application together is a must for us lower stat applicants.

All of the people I met along the interview trail were pretty phenomenal individuals with many talents and interests outside of research/medicine. I am sure that you do some other things outside of research that are interesting and unique. Highlighting those things can be a big conversation starter and help garner some traction because admissions officer want to get to know who you are a person on a deeper level. Remember, you are applying to programs where you may be working with the same people for a decade. Programs don't want to work with a robot for a decade...that is a long time. They want a thoughtful and interesting person that can bring interesting/different/unique views to the table.

I would say you are on the right track....raise that MCAT score up and get on top of some volunteer work. Find something that interests you and not just something to check off the box. It would be idea if you can find something that relates to your lab work. For example, I was involved in an organization that supported families of a condition that my lab studies. That was a great way to tie research to people.


EDIT: People said similar things when I was typing this up. Sorry for the repetition.
 
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have you changed anything about your study habits? What will be different than last time?

I was actually fairly surprised with my MCAT result of a 508. At the time, right after the exam, I almost voided the score and felt like I did so poorly that I did not think I would apply for MD/PhD that cycle. It is one of the reasons why I submitted so late in October. I was SO surprised with the 508, and I felt like it was OK enough to warrant an application (I knew a 508 was a good score for MD programs, and was below average for MD/PhD, but I felt like my application could make up for it.)

I self studied for the MCAT and my method involved reading an entire kaplan bookset and outlining it extensively, essentially my study was purely content review. I only took two practice MCATs (that I scored a 497 and 496 on LOL) and I did not do many practice questions out side that. I realize that my study method was pretty awful, and friends of mine that scored 36s and 37s all say they just did ALOT of practice tests (and one took a MCAT prep course). I feel confident I can score higher because I managed a 508 with my awful study method. Can you point me to some good posts that you know of about MCAT study planning (I will be digging around my self so you don't need to)? And once again THANK YOU!
 
I was actually fairly surprised with my MCAT result of a 508. At the time, right after the exam, I almost voided the score and felt like I did so poorly that I did not think I would apply for MD/PhD that cycle. It is one of the reasons why I submitted so late in October. I was SO surprised with the 508, and I felt like it was OK enough to warrant an application (I knew a 508 was a good score for MD programs, and was below average for MD/PhD, but I felt like my application could make up for it.)

I self studied for the MCAT and my method involved reading an entire kaplan bookset and outlining it extensively, essentially my study was purely content review. I only took two practice MCATs (that I scored a 497 and 496 on LOL) and I did not do many practice questions out side that. I realize that my study method was pretty awful, and friends of mine that scored 36s and 37s all say they just did ALOT of practice tests (and one took a MCAT prep course). I feel confident I can score higher because I managed a 508 with my awful study method. Can you point me to some good posts that you know of about MCAT study planning (I will be digging around my self so you don't need to)? And once again THANK YOU!


You're so welcome, my friend!! It seems that while some of the specific advice on here has varied, the general consensus is pretty strong. And I hope that is all really helpful to you! I edited my last post to reflect it, but I want to emphasize one more time that the single most important part of an MD/PhD application is research, so I really want to commend you for the great work you've done there. In terms of MCAT resources, I don't think I could provide much more than what you can find online already -- the MCAT was my personal weakness, too, so I'll leave the MCAT advising up to those who have done it best! :)

Best of luck!
 
A lot of advice has already been given so I won't reiterate too much. The biggest issue is that MCAT. If you can not break over the 90th (really 95th) percentile - you're gonna be out of luck, especially with your school list. If you need more time before you retake, then do so.

Also just a reminder you can be a physician scientist with just a MD. There are also research intensive residencies/fellowships that grant PhDs. The question comes down to whether you want to be a physician at all. If you mostly want to do research, PhD will suffice. If your ultimate goal is to be a physician scientist, then apply to MD/PhD and MD programs
 
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I want to be a physician-scientist, I want a medical professional's knowledge and to lead transnational biomedical research. I will do what ever it takes to get into an MD/PhD. I am mainly interested in research, but I see huge value in being able to understand and practice medicine.

Hey! I'm sorry you had unfortunate results this cycle! A lot of people have already given great advice, so I'm sorry if I repeat anything, but reading some of the posts got me thinking about my own experiences.

I totally understand why you want a medical professional's knowledge and how valuable it'd be to understand and practice medicine. With that said, I'd be very careful with how you word/spin that. When I was initially applying I was really worried about my research so most of my personal statements were about research. My pre-health committee (thank goodness) took a look and told me I sounded like a robot who wanted to "use patients for science." I'm not saying that's what you want to do, but it can come off that way unless you somehow state/show somewhere that you enjoy/like/want to work with patients for a goal other than to improve your research. Otherwise, there are a lot of PhD programs that allow you to take anatomy courses, etc. to gain a good understanding of the human body without the patient interaction.

I mean, assuming your stats go up, hurdle one is just getting interviews-- interviews, at least in my experience, are pretty intense as well because they want you to prove you have commitment to both degrees, not just one-- as people said, you have to pass the MD side. I luckily had some clinical volunteering experiences where I worked directly with patients, so when interviewers asked me why I was sure about the MD I could talk about certain anecdotes, etc.-- so just make sure whatever experiences you pursue you'll have something to say about working with others/practicing medicine.

Depending on the school (I think I interviewed at seven of the schools on your list), I'd say that while research is really important, most of them still care about who you are as a person outside of the lab (at least they pretended to during interviews; not sure about what happens with the final decision). I met at least one or two professors/interviewers at each place who didn't really ask me about my research but just talked to me about seemingly random parts of my life-- someone at Hopkins asked me who my best friend was, multiple people asked me about what it was like to play DIII tennis in college, and multiple people also asked me to show them stuff I had drawn/jewelry I had made since that had been on my application. Someone asked me about a prank I had played on a professor that had somehow got worked into a letter of rec! I guess my point is that the more well-rounded you are, the more you have to talk about/help them understand who you are and what makes you tick.

On another note:

I took the old MCAT, so I don't know how useful my advice is, but I think I took 10-15 practice tests after reviewing material. I just got sample tests/books from 3 or 4 review companies; there were also some online. For me it wasn't just about the content, but also figuring out timing/personal exhaustion/what to do when I panic over one section, etc.
 
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