Rejection b/c of Too Much Stupid Research

[PariPari]

---

Members do not see this ad.

NOT to be confused w/ the thread below (or above, depending), I am really mad. (and not just b/c I just found this site)

I got my final rejection letter (applied to 6 schools only which I spent hours going through the MSAR finding & then researching to make sure my goals were in-line w/ what the schools had to offer & in a place I could see myself living for at least 4 years).

I emailed admissions to find out why, & yet again was told they felt I had to strong a research background & relatively less clinical experience so they were unsure of my commitment..........I'm pissed.

I spent 2 years doing work on antibiotic resistant organisms in environmental samples through which I got to move to a clinical lab working on resistance levels of strep. pneumoniae-where I regularly interacted w/ pathologists & other docs enrolling patients & had to go to rounds (I **thought** this was clinical exposure)

I also spent a summer at the local health dept (doing pretty much scut work, but they did like to show me things), & have also shadowed about 5 diff docs (all in specialties I'm interested in)

I did volunteer work- at a local children's shelter & taught the under 6-10 yo religion class.........but NO that's not good enough

So NOW i'm graduating & need to find a job to get money for re-applying. I was complaining to my current PI, who passed me to a friend who needs an RA & would pay.......I want the job, it's really cool & I might get a pub or abstract BUT this stupid need for clinical experience is killing me ( i do understand the lifestyle several family members & family friends are drs/nurses).......what do they think 3rd & 4th yr are for......personally I feel like working in my community is waaaay more telling of my character than how many hours i cleaned up bodily functions/got papercuts in a clinic.

(yes, my MCAT wasn't stellar 28S, my GPA is okay 3.75, & my committee letter was stellar-according to our advisor) I'm going to retake in August b/c my spring is too busy

SO if you were me, would you suck it up & do your hrs in the "clinical setting" or just apply to different schools.....or do you think they were lying b/c they didn't wanna say my MCAT sucked?

 

[chintu]

What was your mcat breakdown? if it was 9,9,10 then its fine otherwise you should consider taking it again. Your gpa is great. I don't think doing too much research can hurt you; especially in your case where it was clinically oriented. You seem like you have decent clinical exposure. Did all the schools tell you that you didn't get in because of less clinical/volunteer and too much research?
In that case I would consider doing more clinical stuff, perhaps for a long term like a year. Also, you can never be sure about this process and just because the school's mission seems to fit your career experiences doesn't mean you will get in. Apply to at lease 15 schools of wide range, including low tiers.

 

[tkdusb]

NOT to be confused w/ the thread below (or above, depending), I am really mad. (and not just b/c I just found this site)

I got my final rejection letter (applied to 6 schools only which I spent hours going through the MSAR finding & then researching to make sure my goals were in-line w/ what the schools had to offer & in a place I could see myself living for at least 4 years).

I emailed admissions to find out why, & yet again was told they felt I had to strong a research background & relatively less clinical experience so they were unsure of my commitment..........I'm pissed.

I spent 2 years doing work on antibiotic resistant organisms in environmental samples through which I got to move to a clinical lab working on resistance levels of strep. pneumoniae-where I regularly interacted w/ pathologists & other docs enrolling patients & had to go to rounds (I **thought** this was clinical exposure)

I also spent a summer at the local health dept (doing pretty much scut work, but they did like to show me things), & have also shadowed about 5 diff docs (all in specialties I'm interested in)

I did volunteer work- at a local children's shelter & taught the under 6-10 yo religion class.........but NO that's not good enough

So NOW i'm graduating & need to find a job to get money for re-applying. I was complaining to my current PI, who passed me to a friend who needs an RA & would pay.......I want the job, it's really cool & I might get a pub or abstract BUT this stupid need for clinical experience is killing me ( i do understand the lifestyle several family members & family friends are drs/nurses).......what do they think 3rd & 4th yr are for......personally I feel like working in my community is waaaay more telling of my character than how many hours i cleaned up bodily functions/got papercuts in a clinic.

(yes, my MCAT wasn't stellar 28S, my GPA is okay 3.75, & my committee letter was stellar-according to our advisor) I'm going to retake in August b/c my spring is too busy

SO if you were me, would you suck it up & do your hrs in the "clinical setting" or just apply to different schools.....or do you think they were lying b/c they didn't wanna say my MCAT sucked?

MCAT

I have very very little clinical experience. I have less research experience than you. My MCAT is higher. I've been accepted at the middle-tier and lower-tier schools I applied to, but all waitlists at the top-tier schools, because of clinical experience.

You need to also look at where you applied, but I bet your MCAT is what's holding you back. A 28 is lower than most schools' averages. I bet if you retake it and go up 5 points (also what was your split?), you should do fine with acceptances.

 

[QofQuimica]

MCAT

I have very very little clinical experience. I have less research experience than you. My MCAT is higher. I've been accepted at the middle-tier and lower-tier schools I applied to, but all waitlists at the top-tier schools, because of clinical experience.

You need to also look at where you applied, but I bet your MCAT is what's holding you back. A 28 is lower than most schools' averages. I bet if you retake it and go up 5 points (also what was your split?), you should do fine with acceptances.

Your GPA is pretty good. I think your MCAT would only be a problem if you were applying to really high-stat schools. My suggestion is that you should apply to more schools than six, at least twice as many. (I applied to 22 schools, which is probably on the high end, but don't apply to fewer than 10 schools.) And if you want to do research, see if you can get a job doing clinical research (like in a clinical trial, for ex.) That way you will get relevant clinical experience, and you can tell your interviewers that you want to go into academic medicine based on this experience. Hope this helps, and good luck. 🙂

 

[dr.choc]

What type of schools are you applying for? Do they mainly focus on research or are they clinically oriented? I don't think your numbers are bad. If the schools have told you that they question your commitment...maybe you need to do some long term clinical volunteer work. Make sure when you reapply you submit a letter of rec. from that organization (someone who you work closely with). When you talk about your clinical experience make sure you focus on what you do with the patients. Yes, it is important that you have been exposed to the doctors. BUUUTTTTT what about working with patients attracts you to medicine, what will you contribute, and how has your clinical exp. helped you grow?

 

[MDdream]

what schools did u apply to

 

[PariPari]

9-V 9-PS 10-BS S-writing
applied to state schools b/c i wanted to stay instate & I used to love the hospital system, mid-tier schools, & 1 reach....picked schools that required thesis/ranked well in NIH funding
& the people I talked to seriously said it was noted in my file that I had "a more research oriented perspective" & the email said I should work on increasing clincial exposure
so maybe i suck at interviewing, but i clicked w/ all my interviews, & we talked easy conversation like.....

 

[tkdusb]

9-V 9-PS 10-BS S-writing
applied to state schools b/c i wanted to stay instate & I used to love the hospital system, mid-tier schools, & 1 reach....picked schools that required thesis/ranked well in NIH funding
& the people I talked to seriously said it was noted in my file that I had "a more research oriented perspective" & the email said I should work on increasing clincial exposure
so maybe i suck at interviewing, but i clicked w/ all my interviews, & we talked easy conversation like.....

Your MCAT certainly isn't bad, but of course it would have only helped if it was higher. If you've got it in you, definitely try to take it again. I whole-heartedly believe a score in the 32--> range will make you a significantly more competitive candidate.

Has your research been published?

I hope your state isn't California, because those state schools are wicked hard to get into. Wicked.

 

[Prospero]

Maybe next year you could include in your personal statement how much you're interested in actual medicine (clinical) and not just research. I have 2 years as a research associate, and that issue never came up with me. I wasn't shy about the fact that I did not want to do research throughout my career though. I'm much more interested in the clinical aspects of medicine, and I made sure to say that in my personal statement, and then probably again during my secondaries. It sounds like you have clinical involvement, so it's not as though you're totally green in that area. Make sure they know that despite having a lot of research in your past, you don't want to spend your career tied to a benchtop! And I don't see why you can't take that job (money is money, and a publicaiton can't hurt) and then volunteer at a local hospital.
All that is of course assuming that you are interested in the clinical aspect more than the research side. If not, well, then, that's probably not the best advice 🙂

 

[happydays]

Research schools like high MCAT and publications (in addition to lots of clinical experience).

The type of clinicals you're looking for is one where you'll actually touch and talk to patients.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

You problem --> 6 schools. Apply to 20, you'll get in.

 

[Flopotomist]

You problem --> 6 schools. Apply to 20, you'll get in.

I am surprised that it took this long for somebody to mention this. With a 28 MCAT, you should be applying to at LEAST 20 schools - 30 if you are a CA resident.

 

[omgwtfbbq?]

its the mcat. its amazing, its as though all sins can be forgiven for a good mcat score.

AND .... the clinical experience. if they say they want more. give them more. but also give them a good mcat score. if you plan on reapplying to the same schools, be sure to give them the additional clinical experience you want, even if you think they're just telling you that to cover for a bad mcat. but i think they would have told you if it was JUST the mcat (probably a mixture of both) I have the same mcat score 8-10-10-S
and found that it caused me a LOT of problems

two schools where i had stellar interviews let me know that my mcat is what did it for me. they liked me, but when they had to pick, the person with the higher mcat edged me out.

I Did get into medical school this year, all the stars aligned, but i also only applied to nine schools. I wouldn't suggest that. I developed an ulcer. Re-apply, up the MCAT score, a little more clinical experience and apply to a few more schools.

If you like working with kids this woudl be a GREAT clinical experience activity - local childrens hospital. I did half my clinical volunteer work at the children's hospital and it was fantastic. constant interaction with the kids, i got to know everybody, i learned a lot about ped. onc (which is a serious field of interest for me, now) and i wasn't ever doing paperwork.

 

[happydays]

Pari, which schools did you consider "mid tier"?

 

[drmota]

its not the MCAT. my brother had your EXACT same stats (except for a T on the writing section, but same breakdown and everything), but got into 3 schools and ended up at a top 50. he just matched into a hospital in los angeles for radiology. your problem was not applying to enough schools (he applied to ~25).
-mota

 

[relentless11]

PariPari,

Pretty much everyone covered the reasons why you didn't get in (e.g.: MCAT, clinical exposure, number of schools you applied to). I believe Law2Doc or someone once stated that clinical research does not count as clinical exposure. I can sorta see that since as a researcher, you're there doing research, its essentially a job.

That is great that the you enjoy community service, however your view on what volunteering in the hospital quite biased. I had a lot of fun as a volunteer, and never got a papercut, or had to clean up any bodily fluids. I talked to patients while they waited for physicians, translated for hispanic patients when the translater was late, and so on. You are interacting with patients on a personal level, not at a research level when you are studying them.

I for one am not biased against research, as I am doing my PhD in clinical research. So I know how much exposure one gets, but having done all that along with volunteering in a hospital, they are both two different animals. Since research is merely icing on the cake when applying to standard MD programs, it is understandable that normal clinical volunteering is emphasized. If you are doing an MSTP, then yes research is extremely important on top of the same amount of clinical volunteering (and other ECs) you should've done as a standard MD applicant.

A 28 on the MCAT is average to below average. I believe these days, the national average is about 29-30. If in CA, it would be 32-33. MSTP programs for national and CA will be higher. In my opinion, suck it up and get a better MCAT score, and volunteer in a hospital. Volunteering in a hospital should be a trivial matter compared to all the effort needed for research. In fact it should be a vacation to you. I have been advised by members of SDN and our admissions people here to do more volunteering in the hospital (and community) despite working on a PhD. So goes to show you how important it is in the eyes of the adcoms.

Lastly, apply to more schools. I think everyone can agree that there is some luck factor in terms of applying to med school. More you apply, the greater chance there is that you will get in. If you are adament about applying to just your in-state schools, then you should improve your stats by a significant amount. You should exceed the average stats, which translates to higher MCAT, more clinical exposure/volunteering, etc etc etc.

 

[PariPari]

Research schools like high MCAT and publications (in addition to lots of clinical experience).

The type of clinicals you're looking for is one where you'll actually touch and talk to patients.

I didn't touch the clinical research patients, b/c of the insurance issue, but i did take a second Hx w/ additional demographic data for the study...it's not ready for publication, I did present it at Student Research Day though
For shadowing, i was allowed to interact more with the patients

Pari, which schools did you consider "mid tier"?

i was going on the assumption that if it's not a top 20 it's "mid-tier"
Nebraska, Penn Sate, Tulane, New Mexico, Colorado
& my reach was UCSF

I am surprised that it took this long for somebody to mention this. With a 28 MCAT, you should be applying to at LEAST 20 schools - 30 if you are a CA resident.

UCSF was my reach school, b/c I'm not a CA resident, but I have family nearby & it's a good program......i'd have laughed at me if i were on the adcom anyway...

Thanks everybody, you're all so helpful
I think I'm going to retake the MCAT in Aug (to have time to study hardcore), volunteer at a health clinic & take the job to pay for a new cycle w/ like 40 schools (including some of the CA schools, i can still dream right?), earn at least 1 free flight, & get in

 

[happydays]

i was going on the assumption that if it's not a top 20 it's "mid-tier"
Nebraska, Penn Sate, Tulane, New Mexico, Colorado
& my reach was UCSF

I was wondering, since you mentioned applying to Duke in another thread...

40 schools (including some of the CA schools, i can still dream right?), earn at least 1 free flight, & get in

40 is overkill. If you can raise your MCAT to a 30+, 20-30 will be enough (depending on how many reach schools you want to add).

 

[drmota]

i was going on the assumption that if it's not a top 20 it's "mid-tier"
Nebraska, Penn Sate, Tulane, New Mexico, Colorado
& my reach was UCSF

sorry but tulane is the #1 school in the US. don't believe everything the uS news says. believe everything i say.
-mota

 

[Law2Doc]

SO if you were me, would you suck it up & do your hrs in the "clinical setting" or just apply to different schools.....or do you think they were lying b/c they didn't wanna say my MCAT sucked?

Agree with many of the above posts. Enough folks with your MCAT score get in, but they really need to apply very widely, to 20+ schools. The few schools you didn't get into probably aren't research powerhouses and so minimized the value of that experience and looked for what you had in terms of clinical, which wasn't enough. Thus they weren't lying (I've never heard of a med school that wouldn't tell you your MCAT sucked if it did, albeit in nicer words) -- but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be any med school that might have taken you, had you cast a much wider net. But that being said, as a reapplicant you are going to need to show substantial improvement to your app, and so reapplying with the same app plus more research probably won't be a good idea. Get some strong clinical experience, consider retaking the MCAT if you think your score was not at your level of capability. Consider jobs in the clinical setting -- maybe EMT, phlebotomist, etc. -- things that are easy to get and look good. You might even consider taking some time away from the application process and skip a cycle, to make yourself a much more well rounded applicant, as you are somehow clearly being labeled a unidimensional research guy buy these six schools.

 

[relentless11]

Yea UCSF is pretty much a tough nut to crack regardless of being an in-state resident or not 🙄 .

I think the average MCAT score was 33-34. You're also a tad below their mean GPA too. Their MSTP people if i recall, had a higher MCAT...34-35, and mean GPA of 3.8 or something. In my opinion, don't waste your money on the UC school's. You could try UCLA, I heard they were more out of state friendly compared to the others. Best bet would be Stanford or USC since they are not bound by CA to favor CA residents. If you are SDA, then go for Loma Linda too. Seriously if California's have issues getting into a UC, god help those that are out of state .

On the other hand, that is interesting about Tulane. I have always felt Tulane was very forgiving. Its a great school, I heard it was called the "Stanford" of the south, but I have to admit, its nowhere as selective as say UCSF. A lot of people from my school (UC Davis) got into Tulane, and a lot of physicians return back to our hospital from Tulane too. So definately ask them what the deal was. Anyway good plan. Just hang in there. Good luck!

 

[theblastopore]

I think the schools wanted to see more "clinical exposure" because your MCAT is not high. The best case scenario is to improve your MCAT score, get more clinical experience, and apply to more schools. You don't have to do all three, but if I were you, I would do them all if possible.

You can always take that RA job and volunteer at a hospital when you are not at work.

Good luck

 

[crazy_cavalier]

Show them why a regular PhD is not the path for you.

 

[PariPari]

I was wondering, since you mentioned applying to Duke in another thread...

40 is overkill. If you can raise your MCAT to a 30+, 20-30 will be enough (depending on how many reach schools you want to add).

The Duke questions were planning ahead...I plan to retake the MCAT, hopefully do better & strenghten my app overall, & apply there. I didn't this year b/c I thought I didnt stand a chance. I don't acutally know how many I'll apply to, i have to do more research on schools/cities now & make a spreadsheet

Dr.Mota,
I am so sorry about Tulane, I was not aware of it's #1 status. No wonder they don't want me 😀
Congrats on getting in & best luck there.

 

[adcomm]

maybe your answer on "why do you want to be a doc" wasn't convincing. sorry to hear about the decisions.

 

[db1]

My situation was a little different, I had a low GPA and high MCAT, but I would suggest re-evaluating your personal statement. It really has to hammer home that you want to be a clinician, not do research, even if it is clinically oriented research. I have a Ph.D. in molecular biology (talk about too much research experience), and the first time I applied I wrote way too much about wanting to do translational/clinical research. I had shadowed several docs and done minimal hospital volunteering in college. I got one interview in March, but was not accepted. Before I applied again I volunteered in a hospital and changed my personal statement, so that my research interests ended up being only about 3 sentences, and the rest about wanting to work with patients (it helps to have some clinical volunteer work to back this up with, so just do it, even if it is only for a semester). And have people who will give you honest advice review your personal statement. This year I received several interviews and was accepted to my first choice school.

Your MCAT is fair, and you should retake it if you think you can do better, but taking it in August will put you at a disadvantage. You might be better off doing volunteer work, starting now, and apply as early as possible. If you say you are taking the August MCAT your file might not be reviewed until the scores come out. If you can convince them of your desire to work with patients you should be able to get in with your stats.

Good Luck.

 

[DrBowtie]

I didn't touch the clinical research patients, b/c of the insurance issue, but i did take a second Hx w/ additional demographic data for the study...it's not ready for publication, I did present it at Student Research Day though
For shadowing, i was allowed to interact more with the patients


i was going on the assumption that if it's not a top 20 it's "mid-tier"
Nebraska, Penn Sate, Tulane, New Mexico, Colorado
& my reach was UCSF



UCSF was my reach school, b/c I'm not a CA resident, but I have family nearby & it's a good program......i'd have laughed at me if i were on the adcom anyway...

Thanks everybody, you're all so helpful
I think I'm going to retake the MCAT in Aug (to have time to study hardcore), volunteer at a health clinic & take the job to pay for a new cycle w/ like 40 schools (including some of the CA schools, i can still dream right?), earn at least 1 free flight, & get in

You neglected a major detail in choosing schools. New Mexico and Nebraska have a large state bias with 5% and 15% Out of state matriculants. I don't know what your state of residence is but one of those applications had not so good chances especially being 1/6 apps.

 

[yanky5]

Your not the only one. I got 31mcat and 3.71 GPA in Biochem with lot of research and 1 yr volunteering in hospital. Applied to over 30 MD schools, and did not get in to any although I had interviews. So, I am going to a DO school. Don't listen to what that medical school told you, they BS you to death. Your clinical exposure is fine. Your MCAT is a little too low. You should get at least a 30 to be competative.

 

[PariPari]

You neglected a major detail in choosing schools. New Mexico and Nebraska have a large state bias with 5% and 15% Out of state matriculants. I don't know what your state of residence is but one of those applications had not so good chances especially being 1/6 apps.

yeah, i got it, apply to more private schools---i didn't even have a clue what i was doing last time.

 

[DrBowtie]

actually I'm fine at both of these-- I called New Mexico's admissions office to make sure it wasn't a wast of $$ & they said they would consider it as I still had ties to the area (family) & spent time there doing research.

Right. Consider: Yes Good Shot: Probably Not. They are probably state mandated to only take 5% OOS and unless you are a stellar applicant its always a long shot.

Moral of the story apply broadly.