Rejection from UPenn with Part I of 91--very weird?

[cheer_up]

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Hi everyone,

I know a person from India. He wrote the PBT Part I in July and got 91.
He's recently got rejected for an interview from UPenn. I find that to be very weird. Has this happened to anyone who's applied to that school or has the competition gotten so ridiculously high? If that is the case, then what the hell do these dental schools look for in the applicants??????

Any comment is appreciated.
Thanks

 

[g3k]

Hi everyone,

I know a person from India. He wrote the PBT Part I in July and got 91.
He's recently got rejected for an interview from UPenn. I find that to be very weird. Has this happened to anyone who's applied to that school or has the competition gotten so ridiculously high? If that is the case, then what the hell do these dental schools look for in the applicants??????

Any comment is appreciated.
Thanks

They look for the application as a whole. My friend has a 92 and got a rejection letter.

 

[fateh]

i know some with 98 in part one got rejection from upenn last year.
part-1 is not eveything there.

 

[fido!]

hello there,
dont expect to be called 4 an interview with a score of 90+!how many yrs of working experience does he have in the US?upenn sees all& takes everything into account-ur scores,work expe.,GPA,etc!

 

[cheer_up]

Hi everyone,

I know a person from India. He wrote the PBT Part I in July and got 91.
He's recently got rejected for an interview from UPenn. I find that to be very weird. Has this happened to anyone who's applied to that school or has the competition gotten so ridiculously high? If that is the case, then what the hell do these dental schools look for in the applicants??????

Any comment is appreciated.
Thanks

Thanks a lot for your comments. This person doesn't live the the US. He just came to write the exam. But he's had a few years of practice in India.

 

[fido!]

well,that settles it!he does not have any WORK exp. in US!

Thanks a lot for your comments. This person doesn't live the the US. He just came to write the exam. But he's had a few years of practice in India.

 

[divya]

Hi everyone,

I know a person from India. He wrote the PBT Part I in July and got 91.
He's recently got rejected for an interview from UPenn. I find that to be very weird. Has this happened to anyone who's applied to that school or has the competition gotten so ridiculously high? If that is the case, then what the hell do these dental schools look for in the applicants??????

Any comment is appreciated.
Thanks

Upenn in its application does not specify that you have to send reccomendation letters or a personal statement, but from my experience when you do take the extra effort to send them they go through it.Further when they go through your file they give points for each applicant...the more points you have higher your chances are for being called for an interview.
This is how most schools operate.
In this particular case the applicant must not have had enough points to be called for an interview.
However the good thing abt upenn is they are all for giving second chances so he can do something to make his resume look good and reapply.

 

[cheer_up]

Upenn in its application does not specify that you have to send reccomendation letters or a personal statement, but from my experience when you do take the extra effort to send them they go through it.Further when they go through your file they give points for each applicant...the more points you have higher your chances are for being called for an interview.
This is how most schools operate.
In this particular case the applicant must not have had enough points to be called for an interview.
However the good thing abt upenn is they are all for giving second chances so he can do something to make his resume look good and reapply.

Hi Divya

Thanks a lot for the tip. 🙂

 

[kilani]

well,that settles it!he does not have any WORK exp. in US!

I don't know about you but as far as I know all applicants who are applying to international dental programs DON'T have experience yet in the US that's why we are applying to these programs !

 

[cheer_up]

I don't know about you but as far as I know all applicants who are applying to international dental programs DON'T have experience yet in the US that's why we are applying to these programs !

Hi

I totally agree with you. If they place a strong emphasis on the work experience in the US, then I think it's just stupid because not everyone lives in the US (after all their program in an international program and not a regular national program) and I don't see how work experience in the US has anything to do with the applicant being more favorable to the program. I can see dental work experience being important, but not work experience in the US.

 

[Babak]

UPENN has a mysterious criteria of selecting applicants for interview and final selection.
As far as US epreience , well you can have it through beng a dental asistant, dental hygienist, doing masters ( speciality like endo , prostho, ... ) programs, ...
So when they say US experience its what they mean and its very critical in their selection these days.
You will be suprised that many applicants have more than one the ones that I mentioned !!!
Good luck
And dont be depressed over being rejected, if you ahve good GPA you have good chances in Boston and NYU, They like high GPA and NBDE I scores.
Not going to UPENN ius not the ned of the world if you are not an IVY league enthusiast.

 

[SJ35]

I don't know about you but as far as I know all applicants who are applying to international dental programs DON'T have experience yet in the US that's why we are applying to these programs !

You don't have to work as a dentist to get experience in the US. You can work as a dental assistant, volunteer, etc. Besides, even if those programs are called "International", they are supposed to prepare dentists, trained in other countries to get licenced in the US. Isn't that why you all are coming here? So why not to get familiar with the way they work here, with the procedures they do? You can learn a lot.

 

[BlueToothHunter]

Obviously most programs would prefer to admit those candidates who had some experience in the dental field either here in the US or back in their home country. A lot of foreign dentists that I personally know have had to endure years of doing menial jobs such as dental assisting so that they could earn some money and improve their language. Eventually, they applied to dental schools and got their education and their licenses and have been happy ever since.


Anyway, my point is this. Applying to an advanced standing dental program is just like applying to any specialty residency programs. You need to show them that you are just more than an average dental student/or graduate from back home. That's why any kind of professional experience counts. They will distinguish those who are determined from those who aren't. Sure, they'd take your money. But they want to make sure that you're the creme of the creme.

Do dental assisting, volunteer, GPR or AEGD, MPH or something or even anything that would allow you to have a letter of reference that bears a letterhead of an US insititution. It's a long road but everyone's who's been here before you have gone through it. Welcome to the club.

 

[ar78cx]

Obviously most programs would prefer to admit those candidates who had some experience in the dental field either here in the US or back in their home country. A lot of foreign dentists that I personally know have had to endure years of doing menial jobs such as dental assisting so that they could earn some money and improve their language. Eventually, they applied to dental schools and got their education and their licenses and have been happy ever since.


Anyway, my point is this. Applying to an advanced standing dental program is just like applying to any specialty residency programs. You need to show them that you are just more than an average dental student/or graduate from back home. That's why any kind of professional experience counts. They will distinguish those who are determined from those who aren't. Sure, they'd take your money. But they want to make sure that you're the creme of the creme.

Do dental assisting, volunteer, GPR or AEGD, MPH or something or even anything that would allow you to have a letter of reference that bears a letterhead of an US insititution. It's a long road but everyone's who's been here before you have gone through it. Welcome to the club.

WORD, Bluetoothhunter.

 

[SJ35]

Beeing a good student doesn't always mean you will be a good doctor. And an average student may make an exelent dentist, who will do a perfect work and be loved by his/her patients. That's why I think schools that have practical exams are more fair in their admision process than school that look at the scores only.

 

[Jaydent]

I have to disagree. credentials are very important. how else do you think they will be able to figure who is going to be a good student? in any admission process scores are always the first criteria. Experience,personality and command over language are also important but they are only part of the package. You have to accept that a person with high scores didnt get it out of thin air. That person would have worked so hard to achieve those scores. I dont think it makes this person any less determined than another candidate with experience. Secondly not everyone is in a feasible position to work. People have kids and other commitments. Each persons situation is different. Judging a persons determination based on their work experience alone seems unfair. just my 2 cents

 

[Meggs]

...That's why I think schools that have practical exams are more fair in their admision process than school that look at the scores only.

I'm sorry to disagree. Practical exams have the disadvantage that they only prove the candidate had the money to go pay Duggans or someone else of that sort to take a prep course. Basically that you have $$$ and nothing else to do.

Candidates who don't have access to those prep courses are in extreme disadvantage to candidates who preped for the bench test or simply took prep courses for practical exams, or who had a friend who did and passed down the information.

Practical exams not simply measure your skills, they measure how much knowledge you have of pre established requirementns, like 1.2 axial reduction, 1.5 occlusal reduction, etc. The fact that you know those numbers doesn't neccessarily means that you have better hand skills than someone who didn't get to take a prep course.

I had no previous knowledge of all the prep requiements and still got in, they just gave me some models and I just copied what they gave me, as any dentist will do. Which proves that there's a lot to an admission no simply numbers or practical exams, let alone written.

Now, if you prep the wrong tooth, prep mesial instead of distal, forget the box on a class II, leave burn marks, or do no refinement what so ever, well my dear, that's a whole new ordeal..... 😛

Good luck

 

[Meggs]

Hi everyone,

I know a person from India. He wrote the PBT Part I in July and got 91.
He's recently got rejected for an interview from UPenn. I find that to be very weird. Has this happened to anyone who's applied to that school or has the competition gotten so ridiculously high? If that is the case, then what the hell do these dental schools look for in the applicants??????

Any comment is appreciated.
Thanks

Everyone who's been on SDN for long enough knows that one of UPenn's priorities is diversity. I don't think there's an official rule, and I don't go to UPenn, but somewhere I heard or read they don't take more than 25% of the same country or ethnic group or something along those lines.

As I said I don't go to that school so this is just a rumor. Thought it may help someone.

Good luck

 

[SJ35]

Meggs, you are not the only one who did not take the Duggan's courses or new all the mm on the preps. Practical doesn't prove people have money 😡 Some of them just have experience and handskills to do them.
If scores are so important in proving that you are a good student, why schools that have admitted people with lower scores after the practicals say those students are the best??? 😕

 

[Toothavenue]

Hi,

I agree that Upenn looks into diversity a lot! BUT i feel there should be more to the selection process than just that. Having experience back in home country/ best reco letters from dean/ a competitive NDB score/ good gpa/ Excellent interview at Penn- 45 minutes with a faculty/ 25 min with Lopez / and being complemented by them again and again...for the things on the resume' and having a diverse amount of experience in USA.!!
I guess was not enough for them. 😡

Students who did not have a single day experience in USA! having such a poor personality/SOP sucks!..nothing great on the resume..have got in last year.I know some of them personally ..and they are shocked on getting in ....inspite of just a 10 minute interview!

Dr. Lopez..should look into the " the student" ...you know not just give some of them a seat ..just because they know the right people ..to get in or have just a reco from someone she knows. She should take a look to see if these students are still doing the so claimed "research" activity even after getting in or just out on a vacation!!!!!..that is what some of them did last year!! 🙄

why can't she take some time out and READ about the student.....and understand the students committment towards applying to their school .
I have talked with atleast 5 students from their school and all of them told me the same thing ..!..that they were not looking to get into PENN..if they got in elsewhere..also they would have taken it ..and I know 2-3 students who deferred their admission inspite of having got into other school and reapplied again (with improved credentials) just to get into UPENN...because their thoughts mirror with the schools mission and goals.
Last year if I remember Arvind..got a score of 98 on NDB and had such a great interview at penn..and penn did not take him in ..BUT TUFTS welcomed him ...He wanted to get into penn so much...

Upenn does not ask for reco letters...or sop.. or resume....wonder how can they judge the students ..don't they want to know the students thoughts and motivation are...and will they fit into their school...someone rightly put it ....IVY league ..NO BIG DEAL! atleast with UPENN. 🙄

Good Luck on the quest everyone.. this is such an open forum and it is really great that students are able to express their views ..however candid it might be.
Dr. Lopez..should really open her eyes and look into the students ability...not just hand them over a seat just because they know someone important.

TA :

Everyone who's been on SDN for long enough knows that one of UPenn's priorities is diversity. I don't think there's an official rule, and I don't go to UPenn, but somewhere I heard or read they don't take more than 25% of the same country or ethnic group or something along those lines.

As I said I don't go to that school so this is just a rumor. Thought it may help someone.

Good luck

 

[Jaydent]

Meggs, you are not the only one who did not take the Duggan's courses or new all the mm on the preps. Practical doesn't prove people have money 😡 Some of them just have experience and handskills to do them.
If scores are so important in proving that you are a good student, why schools that have admitted people with lower scores after the practicals say those students are the best??? 😕

Really?-and which school told you that students who have lower scores are the best they have. if you could enlighten us we could try to avoid that school.

 

[aaram]

Really?-and which school told you that students who have lower scores are the best they have. if you could enlighten us we could try to avoid that school.

if we think logically scores are the only criteria anywhere for selection.they see the overall candidature

 

[BDS-DMD]

Tooth avenue are you the student who got rejected?

 

[hzq838]

Tooth avenue are you the student who got rejected?

So what Tooth Avenue said really bothers you? Just because you are UPenn student?

 

[BDS-DMD]

Not at all. I just want to help him deal with the situation better. I am not the type who will fight with him just because he said something about the institute I am in.

I have no idea about the criteria for selection and hence can only offer "symptomatic" relief.

So who ever is the student who got rejected, PM me.

 

[hzq838]

Not at all. I just want to help him deal with the situation better. I am not the type who will fight with him just because he said something about the institute I am in.

I have no idea about the criteria for selection and hence can only offer "symptomatic" relief.

So who ever is the student who got rejected, PM me.

Wonderful! That is the BDS-DMD I am expecting for.

Thanks.

 

[PK_Bond]

I am sorry to hear that a person with a high score got rejection letter. I have been to the interview and talked to couple of students who have been selected. We should keep in mind that Upenn, being a ivy league school has its own selection criteria and follow their guiding principles.
What i heard from the interviewers is that once chosen for the interview, they look at the person demonstrating maturity and what the person gets to the program. They keep stressing that "BE YOURSELF" and put your best foot forward and do you best.
PK

 

[SJ35]

Really?-and which school told you that students who have lower scores are the best they have. if you could enlighten us we could try to avoid that school.

They are not the best THE SCHOOL HAS. They are better than students with high scores.
And another thing -- you don't have time to work because of kids and other commitments. So how will you find time to go to school? Kids and commitments will disapear somewhere?

 

[damast]

bravo sj35, u r absoulutely right.we have sacrificed so much of our personal lives for our career .obviously there are choices to be made.i totally agree with u that 'will the kids and commitments disappear after admission?'

 

[Meggs]

Meggs, you are not the only one who did not take the Duggan's courses or new all the mm on the preps. Practical doesn't prove people have money 😡 Some of them just have experience and handskills to do them.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said "only", you're right in there's people that simply have the skills.

But I still stand by what I said, because I do beleive that some prep requirments are only for typodont purposes and not what you'll really do on a patient; thus throwing experience out the window.

Now if you have the handskills to copy the model they put in front of you, you have no problem.

Good luck

 

[Jaydent]

They are not the best THE SCHOOL HAS. They are better than students with high scores.
And another thing -- you don't have time to work because of kids and other commitments. So how will you find time to go to school? Kids and commitments will disapear somewhere?

It was you who said they are " THE BEST". How can you claim that students with good scores will not be good in their practical work. It should be a combination of both.
Coming to your next point, I never mentioned those were my problems so stop getting personal here. i stated generally about some reasons why people are not able to show work experience. take it or leave it.

 

[BDS-DMD]

I think we can stop this thread here please.

 

[damast]

well, i feel that if someone has a good score and good at skills, that will be great.and there are people who are good at academics and have an excellent clinical hand. but i have seen a lot of students (during my degree)which were a big zero in academics,but they had excellent clinical and patient management skills.its true vice versa also.and then there are people who have super resumes but their actual knowledge level is rock bottom.
According to my opinion an admission committie should consider overall performance(scores and credentials),personality and interactive skills this might bring some degree of compromise but by considering these points that the committie can assure themselves of good dentists who are smart and influential also.
to be honest, its really sad that the schools sometimes reject students with excellent scores,but it should not be the deciding criteria.

 

[Toothavenue]

Hi damast,

I agree with your points...Schools should really take a hard look into the student and understand their motivation towards applying to their program, not just base their decisions on just grades or student knowing the right people to get in.. and schools like upenn ..which pride itself on being" ivy" should really take some time out and and atleast answer calls and talk to students regarding how they can improve their application....others schools take the time out and do it ..u know...maybe then they can get some better quality students instead! 🙄

BDS DMD....this is an open forum ..it is great to see students really expressing their thoughts and point of view.

Good Luck everyone
TA

well, i feel that if someone has a good score and good at skills, that will be great.and there are people who are good at academics and have an excellent clinical hand. but i have seen a lot of students (during my degree)which were a big zero in academics,but they had excellent clinical and patient management skills.its true vice versa also.and then there are people who have super resumes but their actual knowledge level is rock bottom.
According to my opinion an admission committie should consider overall performance(scores and credentials),personality and interactive skills this might bring some degree of compromise but by considering these points that the committie can assure themselves of good dentists who are smart and influential also.
to be honest, its really sad that the schools sometimes reject students with excellent scores,but it should not be the deciding criteria.

 

[BDS-DMD]

TA,you have not answered my question as yet. I hope you don't feel I object to your mail. I am a strong believer in free speech.

 

[Chompers]

it all comes down to what they are looking for. if they are looking for good scores to add to their total average, looking for people who can communicate with patients or a skillfull doctor who will represent them well into the future. so many factors, so many universities. each are different.

with practical exams, this gives the opportunity for us to show them our skills. and to those who complain are probably those with little skill which shall require practice, and more practice. after all, we are all graduated dentists who can practice on people, just in another country.

in regards to grades, i never thought it would be as important since there isnt a way to weigh the education from country to country. some are more difficult and others less. education is what you get out of it. and ive seen some horrible preps from 3.9 students and vice versa. experience in the US is an advantage, and not a requirement. but it comes down to what they are searching for. the best we can do is present the best package of ourselves.

 

[g3k]

it all comes down to what they are looking for. if they are looking for good scores to add to their total average, looking for people who can communicate with patients or a skillfull doctor who will represent them well into the future. so many factors, so many universities. each are different.

with practical exams, this gives the opportunity for us to show them our skills. and to those who complain are probably those with little skill which shall require practice, and more practice. after all, we are all graduated dentists who can practice on people, just in another country.

in regards to grades, i never thought it would be as important since there isnt a way to weigh the education from country to country. some are more difficult and others less. education is what you get out of it. and ive seen some horrible preps from 3.9 students and vice versa. experience in the US is an advantage, and not a requirement. but it comes down to what they are searching for. the best we can do is present the best package of ourselves.

👍 👍

 

[anjali_45]

Different universities have different selection criteria. Some give importance to score and some to score + clinical skills. Every university is different in a way that they put emphasis on different things.
When we apply as candidates we shud try to match up their expectation as much as possible by making up the application package as close to the expectation as possible.
if you are not convinced with their selection criteria dont apply to the particular university but apply to the one that suits your needs .
The number of applicants are more and seats are less making the competition tough and the universities want to make sure that they are getting the cream in there.
GOOD LUCK to all

 

[meverick]

hi guys,i am an applicant to upenn who got rejected.i say to everyone to think and understand.you see they heve only 30 or 35 seats and about 700 applications.what do you think they will do.people who get high scores doersn't mean that they should be called for interview and who are called shouldn't expect that they should be given a seat.I feel like laughing at some of the threads people asking which dress to wear for interview.Just think a person don't even have an idea of what to wear for an interview and going to attend upenn.sometimes ones question and choice might appear foolish to another.so i tell you not to cry over spilled milk and try to move on.there is always next time and better luck.

 

[anjali_45]

yes exactly move on with ur life. u did the best what u cud do.everybody tries to do the best with situation and resources, if u cud get a experience and u had resources and u did it and added it along with ur application.
so everybody tries to do the best in there.
GOOD luck to all . u did the best u cud do

 

[dentexpression]

Not at all. I just want to help him deal with the situation better. I am not the type who will fight with him just because he said something about the institute I am in.

I have no idea about the criteria for selection and hence can only offer "symptomatic" relief.

So who ever is the student who got rejected, PM me.

hi there
anybody got results from the interview;accepted or declined in mail;
for those who had interviews in sept ;they were suppose to hear in nov;has anybody heard abt interview results;pls post