Religious beliefs and pharmacy

[svr515]

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Are there any pharmacists here who have strong religious or ethical objections to the use of mifepristone & misoprostol or other such drugs? If so, what does one do if confronted with the situation of filling such a prescription?

Do Catholic pharmacists fill prescriptions for birth control pills? I assume they are not required to by law, but I wonder if realistically it is too much of a problem to always ask another pharmacist to fill the prescription, or too much of a financial liability to refer the customer elsewhere.

Any thoughts or ideas on this topic...?

 

[Glycerin]

I just found this story that came out today:

http://www.turnto10.com/health/4840207/detail.html

Pharmacist Refuses To Fill Morning-After Pill Prescription

CVS Says Pharmacist's Actions Are Protected Under Corporate Policy


POSTED: 5:49 pm EDT August 11, 2005
UPDATED: 6:36 pm EDT August 11, 2005

COVENTRY, R.I. -- A pharmacist at a CVS in Coventry would not fill a birth contraceptive known as the morning-after pill to one of its customers.

According to the chain, the decision was made based on the pharmacist's religious beliefs. "I thought, 'Oh no, I can't believe this is happening in Rhode Island,'" said Kathy Kushnir, of Planned Parenthood of Rhode Island. "We want to see women walk into a pharmacy and walk out with their meds. They've had a conversation with their physician, they have a written prescription that they present to their pharmacist and that pharmacist's job is to fill that prescription."

The customer went to the Coventry store late Friday night to get a morning-after pill. When she arrived just after 10 p.m., the pharmacist on staff told her she didn't want to fill it for personal reasons.

"If I was the customer, I probably wouldn't shop there again," said Lisa Pascone.

According to CVS, the pharmacist acted on her own religious beliefs and her actions to refuse to fill are protected under corporate policy.

"As a federal employer, we have to follow guidelines that allow our pharmacists for sincerely religious convictions to not fill a prescription," said Eileen Howard Dunn, of CVS Corp.

The executive director of the Rhode Island Pharmacy Board called such actions by pharmacists appropriate if the prescription is filled by another pharmacist or at another store in a timely manner.

"But it certainly is the standard of practice that pharmacists have the right to refuse prescriptions based on either moral, ethical or professional judgment," said Catherine Cordy.

In this case, the woman returned to the same store to pick up her medication the following morning. The Rhode Island Pharmacy Board began investigating the case Thursday. The customer has yet to file a complaint with the board or CVS.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

"We want to see women walk into a pharmacy and walk out with their meds. They've had a conversation with their physician, they have a written prescription that they present to their pharmacist and that pharmacist's job is to fill that prescription."

So how long will it take to change the perception that a PharmD is a pill counter and nothing more?

The pharmacist in this case is just dumb. If I were one of the wackos that refused to dispense emergency contraception, I would just tell the patient we were out of stock and to go to the competitor down the street. That's just asking to be a Martyr right there.

 

[Caverject]

So how long will it take to change the perception that a PharmD is a pill counter and nothing more?

The pharmacist in this case is just dumb. If I were one of the wackos that refused to dispense emergency contraception, I would just tell the patient we were out of stock and to go to the competitor down the street. That's just asking to be a Martyr right there.

No, the pharmacist is not dumb. She followed her beliefs, which is fine. (Even though I believe it's propaganda)

As far as changing the perception, it depends when APhA decides to get up off it's ass and do something. If you notice, the only time a pharmacist is in the news is when a Pharmacist for Life member gets on the news and has a 3 to 4 minute interview spewing thier propaganda. APhA usually gets mentioned but all of 30 seconds. Not exactly a great thing to have going on when we are in the process of reforming our profession in the age of MTMS. I hope to bring this issue to the HOD floor in San Francisco this year.

 

[Caverject]

Are there any pharmacists here who have strong religious or ethical objections to the use of mifepristone & misoprostol or other such drugs? If so, what does one do if confronted with the situation of filling such a prescription?

Do Catholic pharmacists fill prescriptions for birth control pills? I assume they are not required to by law, but I wonder if realistically it is too much of a problem to always ask another pharmacist to fill the prescription, or too much of a financial liability to refer the customer elsewhere.

Any thoughts or ideas on this topic...?

I personally wouldn't fill a mifepristone/misoprostol prescription for the purpose of abortion. However, I will fill it if the purpose is to induce labor. I would have no problem what so ever filling Plan B (levonorgestrel), aka morning after pill, because it is not an abortifacient. Yes I am Catholic, but that has nothing to do with my reasoning. I use science and back up my arguments with science rather than what my priest told me. I think I am smarter than the priest when it comes to medical science.

Most catholic pharmacists have no problem filling birth control. There is always the staunch few that do have a problem that make the headlines. If they had a problem filling it, there is no way they are going to hand off the RX to someone else because that is essentially participating in the "abortion process".

 

[WVUPharm2007]

No, the pharmacist is not dumb. She followed her beliefs, which is fine. (Even though I believe it's propaganda)

Yeah, the next time that druggie comes in with that script for Oxycontin QID written by an ER doctor in Minnesota (actually happened), I'l just tell him the truth. "I'm not filling this for you because I know you don't need it."

My grave stone will read:

WVUPharm2007
1983-2005
"Here lies a guy named Mike
Got between a crackhead and his candy
Instead of pointing to CVS and saying "Take a hike"
He was beaten by a drug seeker with the nearest blunt object that was handy."

Then again, I guess the Plan B seeker isn't as potentially violent as the opioid seeker...

But in all seriousness, the press is on this roll about how it's a 'crisis' because something like half a dozen pharmacists in the last year have been brazen enough to come out and say they won't dispense so they wouldn't be shaking hands with the devil. Is that REALLY that big of a deal? It's not like there wasn't another pharmacy with a good, heathen pharmacist to serve you down the street from the refusing pharmacist in every single case. I did a search for pharmacies in this RI town and found there is a Brooks, Rite Aid, and many independents. Why couldn't she just go to a competing pharmacy? I hate the US press with such a furious passion.

I'm a firm supporter of professional autnomy. Even if I disagree with refusing to fill for religious reasons, I support the rights of a pharmacist that refuses to fill and will fight for this right. But that still won't stop me from making fun of them.....


Edit: My grammar are bad

 

[VCU07]

It doesn't matter what my views are...as far as I am concerned I have no right to impose my views upon the patients that I serve. Also, I belive that as pharmacists keep rejecting to fill prescriptions such as OC there will be more of an uproar by physicians and the general public. Eventually, if we keep refusing to dispense our right to refuse any prescription (for the reason of drug interactions, etc...) will be lost.

Are there any pharmacists here who have strong religious or ethical objections to the use of mifepristone & misoprostol or other such drugs? If so, what does one do if confronted with the situation of filling such a prescription?

Do Catholic pharmacists fill prescriptions for birth control pills? I assume they are not required to by law, but I wonder if realistically it is too much of a problem to always ask another pharmacist to fill the prescription, or too much of a financial liability to refer the customer elsewhere.

Any thoughts or ideas on this topic...?

 

[bananaface]

The funny thing is that some of the people who get outraged when a pharmacist refuses to fill a prescription for Plan B would rather pharmacists not fill abortion or assisted suidice meds. Either we have the right to refuse on OUR own personal moral grounds or we don't. What most commonly happens is that laypeople think pharmacists should use THEIR moral grounds as the basis for the decision - as if their personal opinion on the matter happens to be 1) universally shared 2) absolutely morally right and 3) legally imperitive.

Oh yeah. I finally got a health department nurse to agree to sign off on my EC protocol. Come Monday I my store will offer EC as a service, while I am on the premises. My classmate (pharmtard) is getting a protocol set up too. Between the two of us, we are going to cover weekends at our stores, so that there is always an EC provider available in our county on weekends.

 

[museabuse]

So how long will it take to change the perception that a PharmD is a pill counter and nothing more?

Refusing BC is not the way to enhance our image... infact, in the eyes of the public it worsens our image.

If a pharmacists is that religous and cannot fill plan B( to me it is no different than BC pills) then that pharmacist should not be working to serve the community. The community is made up of all types of people and you need to respect other peoples decisions and beliefs, especailly if it is legal. Go sit in front of a computer at a mail order facility and verify scripts all day, and read the bible on your lunch break.

I think pharmacists that refuse based on religious reasons should move to Iran where the country run by religon, since it seems that is the way they want our country "the land of the FREE" to be run. 😡

 

[jamboo54]

I think pharmacists that refuse based on religious reasons should move to Iran where the country run by religon, since it seems that is the way they want our country "the land of the FREE" to be run. 😡

Ok that line was a little weird...I REALLY hope that was sarcastic. Its comments like that which make people from other countries dislike us. I could go on about how ignorant that comment was but I don't feel like it.

Just because someone refuses to do something based off of religious beliefs does not mean they are trying to take away our freedom, as you put it. One's freedom should not come at the expense of another person's freedom. Its a fine line - the patients right to medicine does not mean that the pharmacists freedom of religion should be taken away.

 

[Jeddevil]

Ok that line was a little weird..

Give Muse a break, he is LIBERAL and loves it when people call him LIBERAL, or use the word LIBERAL in any way.

Plus, we just got out of finals a few days ago so none of us are thinking straight yet.

 

[Caverject]

Its a fine line - the patients right to medicine does not mean that the pharmacists freedom of religion should be taken away.

From the Oath of a Pharmacist:

I will maintain the highest standards of moral and ethical conduct.

Take it for what you wish.

 

[museabuse]

Ok that line was a little weird....

Ok maybe it was weird but it just pisses me off when pharmacists refuse plan B. They are probably the same ones that just dispenesed Seasonale 10 minutes ago. I still don't have a logical explanation why someone would refuse to dispense plan B but then be ok with dispensing BC. If someone objects because plan b can cause a fertilized egg not to implant in the uterus then they should object to BC because it can do the same thing. It may not be a frequent occurence but it can happen.

Besides if a pharmacists is so religious why don't they think sex is just to procreate and any other forms are sinning? Then they should be against all forms of BC and sex after menapause.

It just seems so hipocritical to me. I am not saying there isn't a time to object morally but plan B is not the drug to do it. If you going to object to something then object to a sucicide pill or an abortion pill. Plan B is not even comparable. For me if a abortion pill was legal I would dispense as long as the preganancy wasn't to far along. I am providing the pill but I am not forcing it down her throat. IF God has a problem with that then people that sell guns are going to hell. Maybe that's a new saying. Pills don't kill people people kill people. I do however can see why someone might object to dispensing a abortion/suicide pill.

Seriously though... pharmacists that refuse plan B are either bored with their work and want a little propaganda excitment or are just plain stupid hipocrites.

 

[Caverject]

You know, if you could make your points without the crazy harsh rhetoric, we would have great discussion about this because you make several valid points. However, you have made it clear that you will not listen to what the other side has to say, and the other side has some pretty valid arguments as well

 

[PharmDeb]

From the Oath of a Pharmacist:

I will maintain the highest standards of moral and ethical conduct.

Take it for what you wish.

Seems to me that this says the pharmacist pledges to follow their own Code of Ethics written by the APhA which says "A Pharmacist respects the autonomy and dignity of the patient".

Pt has the right to make their own decisions about their healthcare, and that shouldn't be interfered with by a pharmacist refusing to fill something that the law says they can have.

 

[Sosumi]

I just worked with my first pharmacist yesterday who refused to dispense Plan B. However, he dispensed the Macrobid and the Ortho Evra for her...

 

[lnn2]

So how long will it take to change the perception that a PharmD is a pill counter and nothing more?

The pharmacist in this case is just dumb. If I were one of the wackos that refused to dispense emergency contraception, I would just tell the patient we were out of stock and to go to the competitor down the street. That's just asking to be a Martyr right there.

So I take it that it's not only OK for pharmacists to impose their religious beliefs but also it's OK to lie to patients? It reminds me of those punk high school kids working at an electronic store. They would tell customers Out Of Stock whenever a good item was on clearance. 🙄

So how long will it take to change the perception that a PharmD is a pill counter and nothing more?

As long as pharmacists are imposing their religious beliefs on the patients. If you're treating a patient like a customer then yes, you're a pill counter and nothing more. If you want respect then treat the patients with respect.

BTW, those 9/11 terrorists also had a very strong religious belief too. They could become a pharmacist had they gone to pharm schools in the US! Those guys would fit right into this profession 🙄

 

[lnn2]

Besides if a pharmacists is so religious why don't they think sex is just to procreate and any other forms are sinning? Then they should be against all forms of BC and sex after menapause.

they only think of sex as to procreate only if they're not getting any! or they're just not any good at it! If they're not getting any before menopause then how can they get some after menopause?!
I watch Discovery and Animal Planet. I think animals have sex just to procreate too 😱 and the sex only lasts less than 60 seconds 😱 Yay! procreation! who wants to have sex with a procreator?!

plain stupid hipocrites.

You said it best! eloquently I might add!
Well, since this is America, eveyone has a right to compensate for his/her empty, meaningless life by making themselves feel important. Even hipocrites have rights. I often wonder what would those hipocrites think if their daughters were pregnant with a bastard child?! I think that they would be overjoyed!

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I've always felt that if you are opposed to abortion, great - don't have one. In my mind, issues of morality (drinking alcohol, smoking, premarital sex, birth control, whatever) are personal issues where one has the right to control ones own conduct, but not the conduct of others.

So, I do have a problem with pharmacist refusing to dispense Plan B, as long as the patient has a legal, valid prescription and there are no health-related contraindications.

Christian teachings tell believers to respect the laws of the country in which they reside. Jesus Christ: "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is God's."

I don't believe a Christian pharmacist sins when he or she dispenses a LEGAL product to a patient, whether or not the pharmacist would use that product himself.

I don't like/believe in smoking, but I would still ring up a pack of Malboros for someone.

My good friend is Muslim. He doesn't drink, but he is a computer programmer for a major liquor distributor. He gets $900 of free booze a year, which he gives away to non-Muslim friends as gifts. He says this does not violate the principles of Islam or his own personal morality.

Just my take on a controversial issue.

 

[Caverject]

So I take it that it's not only OK for pharmacists to impose their religious beliefs but also it's OK to lie to patients?

How is it a lie if you really don't have the drug? Some pharmacies will not stock it period.

 

[lnn2]

How is it a lie if you really don't have the drug? Some pharmacies will not stock it period.

It's a lie when you tell the patient Out of stock because you don't want to dispense it.

Why not putting up a sign:
"Due to our pharmacists' religious beliefs and their refusal to dispense BC or any similar meds, we are no longer stock nor dispense these types of immoral meds"
That pharmacy would be out of business in matter of weeks due to loss of patients.

Until there's a clear, concise law/policies regarding this matter, the "pharmacists refused to dispense due to religious beliefs" story will only create animosity and distrust between the general public and the pharmacists. It can only create harm, bad publicity toward this profession. One bad apple can rot the whole barrel! (yeah, I know, that's deep!)

 

[bananaface]

I have no problem telling a known narc addict/dealer that I haven't got any Oxycontin. It's my choice whether or not to tell my patients what I stock. Um yeah, I could partial an order and get the rest in the day after tomorrow, matching Costco's price so that I make no profit while helping to supply the greater (insert) area with Oxy, but guess what... I'm not gonna.

Anyway, there are plenty of prescribers who will not write for Plan B on moral grounds. It's dumb that we are getting public flack and they are not, seeing as how they are much MUCH more prevalent. I know of whole clinics and healthcare systems that won't write for ECP. There are just too many misconceptions floating around out there, and people who are afraid to push for change. **** like that is why the push for OTC status is in effect.

What works best is to say something like "I don't dispense that medication at this store." Then it is appropriate to provide a referral to either another store, or 1-888-NOT2LATE. Whenever you voice specific religious objections, you are creating an inappropriate environment of guilt for the patient.

 

[dontworry]

The pharmacist that i work with is a very religious person and she has decided to not stock the store with plan B. When we did have the product, she would transfer the rx if possible. But there was one night when it was late and she was unable to transfer it so she filled it. Talking to her afterwards about it she felt very upset for a few days following dispensing it. She just cant handle the thought that she has helped someone possibly stop a pregnancy and it deeply upsets her. Her solution was to not stock the product. While i dont agree with her, i feel that she has her own religious values and they should be respected. The problem that i see is what happens if all the nearby pharmacies stop carrying plan B, then what happens. While there are alot of pharmacies in this area, i wonder about rural areas.
Andrea

 

[Caverject]

Hopefully, next week this will no longer be a problem if the drug goes over the counter. The FDA is suppose to make a decision by September 1st, but I've heard from a source it will be next week. Guess we will see!

 

[ultracet]

ok people....

if it goes OTC how will everyone handle that?

are you going to let it stay otc in your pharmacy?


whenever i get out i intend on pulling it behind the counter with a sign that says "ask the pharmacist for plan b" or something like that.

i'm not going to deny them access to it but i do feel that it needs more counseling than just what it says on the box

 

[meg]

I think once they make it OTC they should have a 1-800 hotline to the company who makes the stuff and patients can just call in, give their address and credit card number and they'll ship it to you within 24 hours. Then pharmacists and doctors wouldn't have to do anything.

 

[Caverject]

ok people....

if it goes OTC how will everyone handle that?

are you going to let it stay otc in your pharmacy?


whenever i get out i intend on pulling it behind the counter with a sign that says "ask the pharmacist for plan b" or something like that.

i'm not going to deny them access to it but i do feel that it needs more counseling than just what it says on the box

are your patients ******ed or something where they can't read the label? If they take more than what they are suppose to do, all it will do is give them same bad GI.

 

[ultracet]

are your patients ******ed or something where they can't read the label? If they take more than what they are suppose to do, all it will do is give them same bad GI.

come on... i do live in alabama.....


lol anyway, i think that people should know that if it has been too long it is pointless to buy it. yes it will say that on the lable but come on....

i can see some people coming in buying it off the shelf after missing a period thinking it will do something.....

my rationale has nothing to do with side effects... more like.... pregnancy

 

[Caverject]

But it will not harm the patient(s) if the woman is pregnant

 

[bananaface]

It'll keep ******s from tampering with it. You know it's going to happen. Some nutjob will cause a scare.

 

[luckyPharmD.stu]

i'm catholic, but i wouldn't have any problems like that if I was a pharmacist. and as for the pharmacist who refused to give because of her religion, that person is an idiot; an idiot for being narrow-minded, not a ******, in my opinion. Think about it; how would you feel if you went to a pharmacy to pick up your medicine, but the pharmacist said something like, " No, I can't let you have that. It's because my religion forbids the use of that drug." Why couldn't she let the other pharmacist give the medicine anyways?This kind of a problem should have never happened and it really pisses me off that it just did. No offense to anyone who is religious, but i'm being really serious about this situation.

 

[luckyPharmD.stu]

i also want to add that i don't hate religious people at all and i understand the pharmacist's point of view; it's hard to go against your beliefs...but i don't think any pharmacists should have the power to dictate whether the patient should get the pills or not because of religion. If they do, then that's not good for the customers and the reputation.