Reporting Bad Grades: Death Sentence?

[dontshoot]

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Due to nothing more than total ignorance, I have realize today- 75 hours into undergrad coursework- that AMCAS will require me to report community college work from almost ten years ago. Said CC work resulted in 24 credits (2 semesters) with a sub 1.0 GPA. I have a good reason but suspect that may not matter. Preliminary calculations suggest a 3.3 uGPA as the best I can do at this point (currently have a 3.95 with roughly 50 hours of coursework remaining). Is this critical to my chances? My science GPA will be closer to a 3.9 due to the fact that no BCPM classes were taken at community college. Is there anything I can do? Feeling so disappointed in my 17 year old self and also in my current self for not realizing this was a thing.

Thanks in advance SDN!

 

[mimelim]

Should it matter?

 

[Lucca]

I feel like this is a good opportunity to use one of the "Is there anything else you would like us to know?" boxes on a secondary or something of that sort. 10 years is a long time and it sounds like you turned your academic record around big time when given the opportunity.

 

[neuro17]

Probably won't matter since you have a great GPA now. Keep up the good work and don't sweat the small stuff.

 

[WedgeDawg]

It's probably something you should report but, as has been said, you should explain your circumstances. It will also help substantially that these were taken 10 years ago and your current GPA is stellar.

 

[efle]

Are you asking if you can skip reporting your CC grades?

 

[ZedsDed]

Due to nothing more than total ignorance, I have realize today- 75 hours into undergrad coursework- that AMCAS will require me to report community college work from almost ten years ago. Said CC work resulted in 24 credits (2 semesters) with a sub 1.0 GPA. I have a good reason but suspect that may not matter. Preliminary calculations suggest a 3.3 uGPA as the best I can do at this point (currently have a 3.95 with roughly 50 hours of coursework remaining). Is this critical to my chances? My science GPA will be closer to a 3.9 due to the fact that no BCPM classes were taken at community college. Is there anything I can do? Feeling so disappointed in my 17 year old self and also in my current self for not realizing this was a thing.

Thanks in advance SDN!

"Death sentence" is hyperbolic but yes that is a significant drop in your GPA that will certainly affect your chances (YMMV by school.) That being said, if I were a betting man I'd say that your GPA will be looked at differently from the run-of-the-mill 3.3. All you can do is offer an explanation, though your recent track record should speak for itself.

 

[ZedsDed]

Are you asking if you can skip reporting your CC grades?

I think he's asking if he's completely ****** or not.

 

[dontshoot]

Should it matter?

Besides the fact that I didn't have any direction or take my academics seriously (inexcusable), I was physically unable to attend the last 6 weeks of classes semester 1 due to hospital bed rest for pre-e. Semester 2 I was doing well but my application for child care assistance was denied due to my poor grades from semester one and as a single parent I had no money to pay child care out of pocket.

These are excuses that speak more to the fact that I didn't understand the consequences at the time because I could have obviously withdrawn. My life now is vastly different and has left me in a position where I can pursue my dream without such logistical obstacles, which makes all the difference.

I am not thinking of lying.

 

[efle]

I think he's asking if he's completely ****** or not.

Oh, then as usual "come back with an MCAT"

 

[ZedsDed]

Oh, then as usual "come back with an MCAT"

According to the conclusions derived from a certain thread today, a dissonant GPA and MCAT score brings about it's own set of problems 🙁

There really is nothing harder to repair than a low GPA.

 

[Lawpy]

Probably won't matter since you have a great GPA now. Keep up the good work and don't sweat the small stuff.

It's probably something you should report but, as has been said, you should explain your circumstances. It will also help substantially that these were taken 10 years ago and your current GPA is stellar.

"Death sentence" is hyperbolic but yes that is a significant drop in your GPA that will certainly affect your chances (YMMV by school.) That being said, if I were a betting man I'd say that your GPA will be looked at differently from the run-of-the-mill 3.3. All you can do is offer an explanation, though your recent track record should speak for itself.

So... what's the verdict on the GPA? 😕😕

 

[ZedsDed]

So... what's the verdict on the GPA? 😕😕

There are 1000 students like OP on the postbacc forum. As usual, the low GPA will hurt but to what extent will depend on the totality of his application. A really kick ass sGPA should help significantly.

 

[efle]

According to the conclusions derived from a certain thread today, a dissonant GPA and MCAT score brings about it's own set of problems 🙁

There really is nothing harder to repair than a low GPA.

I'm still not sold on the issues everyone else is arguing about. List looks fine, 3.56 is fine with such a strong MCAT and decent ECs. I'd need to see the writings and letters before speculating he's sandwiched between yield protection on one end and GPA being too low on the other.

So... what's the verdict on the GPA? 😕😕

I'd guess screens are the biggest threat, past that he's toast for number ****** but should be fine with a good list. Assuming a good MCAT

 

[dontshoot]

According to the conclusions derived from a certain thread today, a dissonant GPA and MCAT score brings about it's own set of problems 🙁

There really is nothing harder to repair than a low GPA.

According to the conclusions derived from a certain thread today, a dissonant GPA and MCAT score brings about it's own set of problems 🙁

There really is nothing harder to repair than a low GPA.

What exactly do you mean by this? Is there a relevant thread I should consult?

Honestly I was shocked when I did the calculation and saw what a couple of bad semesters I barely remember can do to the GPA I have worked pretty hard for! I do realize there are plenty of people who have worked as hard as I have without ever messing up in their past who are understandably more attractive applicants though.

 

[efle]

Wouldn't be relevant unless you hit top percentile on the MCAT and have a surprisingly terrible cycle (a single interview at an extremely instate-friendly public school).

Go ace the MCAT.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Some schools might not place much importance on classes taken a decade ago if op has significantly improved grades in current classes. n=1 but I know a couple nontrads who had similar grade histories and were accepted

 

[dontshoot]

Wouldn't be relevant unless you hit top percentile on the MCAT and have a surprisingly terrible cycle (a single interview at an extremely instate-friendly public school).

Go ace the MCAT.

That's the plan 😉

 

[ZedsDed]

What exactly do you mean by this? Is there a relevant thread I should consult?

No, please don't. You'll scare yourself speculating like that. You can't simply equate yourself with other applicants who you know nothing about except a couple of numbers.

Honestly I was shocked when I did the calculation and saw what a couple of bad semesters I barely remember can do to the GPA I have worked pretty hard for!

Many have had the same realization before you.

I do realize there are plenty of people who have worked as hard as I have without ever messing up in their past who are understandably more attractive applicants though.

Again, it will depend on the rest of your application. The difference between yourself and most other applicants with a low cGPA is that you have the opportunity here to have a high everything else.





You might wanna write off WUSTL though...

 

[efle]

You might wanna write off WUSTL though...

they got a new admissions director this cycle iirc, so maybe we'll see a little softening on their stats focus!

 

[ZedsDed]

they got a new admissions director this cycle iirc, so maybe we'll see a little softening on their stats focus!

Hey, hope springs eternal

 

[dontshoot]

I am an Indiana resident (near Chicago) with kids and a mortgage and all that jazz. So unfortunately for my ability to 'cast a wide net', all of my eggs are going to be in the IUSM/Chicago schools basket. I am volunteering every chance I get, which I find enjoyable. I don't mind doing a graduate program or applying more than once if I need to. I also would happily attend Midwestern DO school.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

10 years is a long time and it is clear you have reinvented yourself. Depending on your MCAT consider some schools like Duke, Case, or VCU that reward reinvention. If you absolutely can't move your family then make sure to have the best app possible. Like you said CCOM is probably a good chance as well.

Oh and a side note just thought I would say that if a school isn't willing to look past some dumb teenager mistakes from over 10 years and see how kick*** you've done now then they don't deserve you. Go kill the MCAT. Good luck!

 

[Womb Raider]

I don't think colleges check your history from a CC you went to 10 years ago. 3.95 vs 3.3 could easily make or break it. I'd consider not reporting.

Obviously you're a different person than you were 10 years ago. Unfortunately, many institutions won't recognize this change of character and will gloss over your recent accomplishments while fixating on the super low GPA that is not truly indicative of your capabilities. It's a flaw in the system. I don't see any reason why your 10-year-old GPA is relevant to medical school.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

I don't think colleges check your history from a CC you went to 10 years ago. 3.95 vs 3.3 could easily make or break it. I'd consider not reporting.

Obviously you're a different person than you were 10 years ago. Unfortunately, many institutions won't recognize this change of character and will gloss over your recent accomplishments while fixating on the super low GPA that is not truly indicative of your capabilities. It's a flaw in the system. I don't see any reason why your 10-year-old GPA is relevant to medical school.

You have to report every grade no matter how many years it has been

 

[efle]

You have to report every grade no matter how many years it has been

I think he knows this but finds it ethical to break the rule (@Womb Raider act utilitarianism wins again... 😉 )

The real question then is whether OPs college has transcripts from a decade ago loaded up into the clearinghouse

 

[candbgirl]

Since you are an Indiana resident you should be fine. They like their own residents. Just mention the discrepancy someplace on your app. Do great on the MCAT! Good luck.

 

[GrapesofRath]

X

 

[GrapesofRath]

Should it matter?

From my perspective I would say that if high school GPAs and transcripts dont matter for medical school admission then classes taken while you were in high school should be treated similarly even if they are technically taken at a community college instead. I know why they aren't treated the same as HS classes and get the reason behind it, but if you are asking "should it matter" that would be my answer.

There are many many things we let people get a pass on that they did in high school that if they happened in college would be looked at rather differently.
I would say from my perspective just because a class just happened to be under the designation of "Community college" that you took at the age of 16, that it shouldnt be treated differently from any other juvenile acts of immaturity we let slide when you were in high school.

Ultimately the generic retort to this from many will always be "Med school is such a competitive process they can afford to take a pass on people with these type of blemishes" or "it's a negative process----the person with the least negative marks on their record and performance often wins" but if you are asking SHOULDit matter, I would say if med schools dont care about anything else that happens in high school(outside of felonies or things of that magnitude), we shouldnt make an exception for this.

If the goal of assessing your GPA and transcript is to assess academic capabilities, I dont think we are doing that the best way possible if we are making rules based on technicalities of "Well this class that you took when you were 16 has to count because it occured in a college CC setting" but "this one you took in a high school class room wont count" even if in many pre-meds cases those HS classes helped htem get AP credit to get out of some pre-reqs for med school.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I don't think colleges check your history from a CC you went to 10 years ago. 3.95 vs 3.3 could easily make or break it. I'd consider not reporting.

Obviously you're a different person than you were 10 years ago. Unfortunately, many institutions won't recognize this change of character and will gloss over your recent accomplishments while fixating on the super low GPA that is not truly indicative of your capabilities. It's a flaw in the system. I don't see any reason why your 10-year-old GPA is relevant to medical school.

It's not a really a matter of you making a decision based on ethics or what you think is fairest. There is a Academic Clearinghouse that has records of every college class youve ever taken. Dont report these CC classes, there is a very good chance youll get caught. Nobody could argue that a very good chance of getting caught and never becoming a doctor no matter what is a worthwhile risk to take when the reward is simply artifically boosting your GPA. For the OP they also should consider many evaluators put at least if not more weight in the sGPA than the cGPA. A 3.9 sGPA is rather strong; I dont think they are in as much of a bind as many might think.

 

[bunchesonothing]

I am in a very similar situation. 2 semesters from about 18 years ago. Gosh, I feel a bit old quantifying that. Also with family ties to midwest I have to honor.

This year, I did not apply DO. I admit I should have. Applied to 10 MD schools.

I have one MD interview coming up. I was interview waitlisted, at first, but was pulled off of the waitlist quickly. There are others still patiently waiting.

I am still pending 4 other schools answers to open applications. I've checked with each and was told I hadn't been reviewed yet or a decision hadn't been made on the rest. So, I still have hope. I feel like perhaps I'm in these schools' "maybe" piles... which I consider myself lucky to be in. An MCAT score pushed my application complete dates back.

I realize I made some mistakes this cycle and if I don't get in, feel like I'm prepared to come back strong after a gap year and app enhancements. However, rather than a sense of doom, I feel rather hopeful. It feels plausible with the right strategy.

I do feel that although not an ideal situation, my time away from school strongly enhanced my the experiences and perspectives I was able to write about in essays. And if get an acceptance, it will have greatly contributed to that outcome.

 

[dontshoot]

I am in a very similar situation. 2 semesters from about 18 years ago. Gosh, I feel a bit old quantifying that. Also with family ties to midwest I have to honor.

This year, I did not apply DO. I admit I should have. Applied to 10 MD schools.

I have one MD interview coming up. I was interview waitlisted, at first, but was pulled off of the waitlist quickly. There are others still patiently waiting.

I am still pending 4 other schools answers to open applications. I've checked with each and was told I hadn't been reviewed yet or a decision hadn't been made on the rest. So, I still have hope. I feel like perhaps I'm in these schools' "maybe" piles... which I consider myself lucky to be in. An MCAT score pushed my application complete dates back.

I realize I made some mistakes this cycle and if I don't get in, feel like I'm prepared to come back strong after a gap year and app enhancements. However, rather than a sense of doom, I feel rather hopeful. It feels plausible with the right strategy.

I do feel that although not an ideal situation, my time away from school strongly enhanced my the experiences and perspectives I was able to write about in essays. And if get an acceptance, it will have greatly contributed to that outcome.

Thank you and good luck at your interview!

 

[GrapesofRath]

Hey, hope springs eternal

There was actually somebody with a 3.3 GPA and 526 MCAT on here that reported getting an II at WashU this cycle. Last cycle there was someone on here who did an SMP and still had a sub 3.0 GPA with a 38 MCAT and reported getting an II there.

Go through the list of schools that Tufts and Boston U SMP graduates have gotten into; the vast majority of top 20 schools will be listed there.

Not really directing this part at you so much but these things often arent as clear cut and dry as people make it out to be. Everything matters and adds up. There are a good number of people with 3.55/38's that generate interest from top 20 schools each year. They just have something that compelling in their app to attract that interest. That dude from that thread just had a bunch of negative factors adding up that caused problems; honestly the 3.55 by itself isnt close to the top of the list.

 

[dontshoot]

Update:
I was unable to view my transcript online yesterday from CC classes but knew I took roughly 30 hours with one A. This morning an employee emailed me a copy and actually all of my grades from my second semester were recorded as W. I must have withdrawn. Only 12 credits will be counted as F and 4 classes will be W. My GPA factoring only 12 credits of F work will be (at best) a 3.68 at the time of graduation. Does this improve my odds? Surely it improves my odds of my application getting seen by human eyes? I know the W don't look good either but my GPA will not be so severely damaged. Not of the credits attempted were science courses.

 

[efle]

Yes, a 3.68 will pass all screens and get some human eyes on your app. Considering the decade of time passed and the stellar performance now, shouldn't cause you too much trouble. Now just go get a great MCAT score and come back for advice on building your school list.

 

[njtrimed]

Due to nothing more than total ignorance, I have realize today- 75 hours into undergrad coursework- that AMCAS will require me to report community college work from almost ten years ago. Said CC work resulted in 24 credits (2 semesters) with a sub 1.0 GPA. I have a good reason but suspect that may not matter. Preliminary calculations suggest a 3.3 uGPA as the best I can do at this point (currently have a 3.95 with roughly 50 hours of coursework remaining). Is this critical to my chances? My science GPA will be closer to a 3.9 due to the fact that no BCPM classes were taken at community college. Is there anything I can do? Feeling so disappointed in my 17 year old self and also in my current self for not realizing this was a thing.

Thanks in advance SDN!

I am in a similar situation except that my bad grades are from nearly two decades ago. I got in this cycle (my first time applying) both MD and DO. With a decent MCAT, you'll be fine applying broadly for mid- and low-tier MD. With an amazing MCAT, you may be able to apply everywhere. Once you get your MCAT scores and you're ready to apply, make a WAMC thread for guidance on where to apply. Don't stress about the past!