Research as a non-trad...?

[IcemanDDS]

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Just wondering how important research is when applying to med school as a non-trad, having been out of academia for some time. Looking for responses from people who have experience speaking with various adcoms about this or have had to go back and get research experience to be competitive.

If you did have to find research, where did you end up doing it and for how long? This is one element that I worry about and regret not doing while in undergrad and grad school.

Thanks!

 

[netminder]

Just wondering how important research is when applying to med school as a non-trad, having been out of academia for some time. . . .

I'm an n of 1, but I just got into my first choice allo school, early decision. I have pretty extensive research experience. I feel strongly that this was a factor in making my application unique. Maybe if you have a 45T/4.0 and no research, it might not matter. Although I have heard stories about people with 38/4.0-kind of numbers who ended up with no acceptances for various reasons, among them: lack of shadowing experience, lack of other volunteering experience. I'm inclined to believe that research can help a great deal.

 

[redsbear]

I wouldn't worry about it. I have no research experience, and while I haven't applied broadly (for several reasons) I will interview Monday at U of M-Duluth. I also interviewed last year, and I expressed my self-consciousness at 'no research experience' to both interviewers. The first guy was HEAD of medical school research, so when he told me that it's not a big deal to lack even med school research time, I felt better.

If you're non-trad, I feel that adcom's look for more leadership/standing out in your 'real' life. Unfortunately for me, the U of MN doesn't feel that being a Certified Flight Instructor isn't terribly top-notch...so I've looked for other avenues. ER volunteering, biotech job....etc... on top of my aviation accomplishments.

Best of luck.

Barry

 

[shahcoco]

I wouldn't worry about it. I have no research experience, and while I haven't applied broadly (for several reasons) I will interview Monday at U of M-Duluth. I also interviewed last year, and I expressed my self-consciousness at 'no research experience' to both interviewers. The first guy was HEAD of medical school research, so when he told me that it's not a big deal to lack even med school research time, I felt better.

If you're non-trad, I feel that adcom's look for more leadership/standing out in your 'real' life. Unfortunately for me, the U of MN doesn't feel that being a Certified Flight Instructor isn't terribly top-notch...so I've looked for other avenues. ER volunteering, biotech job....etc... on top of my aviation accomplishments.

Best of luck.

Barry

I'm concerned about not having research because LizzyM and another adcom from a top uni have emphasized its importance, the latter much more than LizzyM. But with everything I'm doing, I just don't know when and where to fit it in. Is it worth applying a year later just to get the research experience in?

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

I'm concerned about not having research because LizzyM and another adcom from a top uni have emphasized its importance, the latter much more than LizzyM. But with everything I'm doing, I just don't know when and where to fit it in. Is it worth applying a year later just to get the research experience in?

Definitely don't wait another year unless you're absolutely, positively determined to go to a top-ranked school with a strong research emphasis. LizzyM and other adcoms will advise traditional premeds to do research as a way to stand out from the crowd of other cookie-cutter premeds. As a nontrad, you probably already have life experiences that will let you stand out. Spend your time getting good grades and a good MCAT instead. I went to four interviews, got three acceptances and my total lack of research was never even mentioned.

 

[anguisette]

There are some schools that want to see research because their mission is research-oriented. If that's not your goal, then I wouldn't worry about a lack of research.

FWIW, I have extensive research and I've gotten maybe only one question about it on the interview trail. They were more interested in my story as a non-trad instead.

 

[kami333]

When I started down the premed path I changed jobs/fields and took an entry level job in research, I was a bio major so it wasn't too awkward. Was a ~50% paycut but it gave me the flexibility to do a postbacc for GPA repair at the same time as well as mentoring (PIs were on adcom or pd) and clinical exposure.

I agree with ladymich, everyone has wanted to talk more about my non-traditional journey than my research, though I didn't apply to at any research power-houses so your school selection might be different.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

Definitely don't wait another year unless you're absolutely, positively determined to go to a top-ranked school with a strong research emphasis. LizzyM and other adcoms will advise traditional premeds to do research as a way to stand out from the crowd of other cookie-cutter premeds. As a nontrad, you probably already have life experiences that will let you stand out. Spend your time getting good grades and a good MCAT instead. I went to four interviews, got three acceptances and my total lack of research was never even mentioned.

I agree. From what I remember from back in the days, NO ONE asked me about any research. As mentioned elsewhere, everyone wanted to hear my story of Why medicine ... so it can be done. Plus as ladymich was saying, if the goal of a school is to produce researchers, then you may be SOL there. However, not all schools value that. To me personally, I got into medicine to take care of human beings with what time I have left, not explain how to cure diabetes in mice (I know there are different kinds of research opps but I am just trying to make a point)
Good Luck. It can be done.

 

[shahcoco]

Brushing my teeth this morning 😀, I realized that I may have something that "counts" as research. In UG, I did a public sector research internship on the transfer of Western biomedical ethics to the Muslim Middle East. Nothing was published, but my supervisor was really happy with the work and I'm still in touch with him. Can I list that as relevant research even though it was before I officially determined premed?

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

There's no point at which you are officially a premed. Basically anything you've done after high school counts.

 

[Drogo]

I have been pondering this same question for a while now. I have an offer to join a summer research program at Umich (cancer research). So I'm not sure if I should take it or not... I figure some research will only help my app or help me find out if I truly would enjoy the research aspect of medicine.

Time, loads of ample time is a luxury some of us non-trads do not have when compared to your traditional students. I feel like I have to be so precise and meticulous with every little move I make during this whole process.

 

[netminder]

I'd say it depends on how many publications you might be able to get out of the deal -- which is impossible to predict. I would try to find out what people in similar positions in that group have done. A summer is not a whole lot of time, sadly. Good luck.

 

[Captain Sisko]

I'd say it depends on how many publications you might be able to get out of the deal -- which is impossible to predict. I would try to find out what people in similar positions in that group have done. A summer is not a whole lot of time, sadly. Good luck.

wicked how you've posts in the same thread four years apart!

i kind of wonder if doing the standard premed activities might get my application thrown in the pile with other premeds. i mean, if they ignore my major and a couple of my activities (10 years in industry) dates could be overlooked.


assuming they do see them. do you think my time as an R&D engineer counts as research? I'm not trying to get into a top research school and don't really havearesearch mindset going in. I'm far more interested in the clinical side, though i only say this because i don't have medical research experience. i guess my only reason to call it out as research and not paid employment is because we did do cutting edge stuff, numerical analyses backed up with experimental methods to design and then validate new technologies. maybe the methods or mindset is applicable? idunno. comments anyone?

 

[goldstar97]

What is considered "good research experience" for a working non-trad?


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[MedWonk]

I'm concerned about not having research because LizzyM and another adcom from a top uni have emphasized its importance, the latter much more than LizzyM. But with everything I'm doing, I just don't know when and where to fit it in. Is it worth applying a year later just to get the research experience in?

Are you planning on doing an MD/PhD or DO/PhD? Or going to a top 20 allo school? If not, I wouldn't worry so much about it unless you're lacking in ECs. Research is great for trads who need to stick out. Non-trads usually have other ECs that help them stick out. Research can help, but I wouldn't do it unless you really want to. Research doesn't seem to be weighed any more heavily than other ECs.

 

[grt398]

Are you planning on doing an MD/PhD or DO/PhD? Or going to a top 20 allo school? If not, I wouldn't worry so much about it unless you're lacking in ECs. Research is great for trads who need to stick out. Non-trads usually have other ECs that help them stick out. Research can help, but I wouldn't do it unless you really want to. Research doesn't seem to be weighed any more heavily than other ECs.

This probably makes the most sense. I will say that I think it's helpful if you can get it and get publications out of it. Every top 20 allo school I or anyone else I know interviewed at definitely asked about research and wanted me to walk through it etc. One of my interviewers was even in the field I did research in so they definitely wanted to talk about it. The schools I interviewed at outside that range either didn't ask at all or only asked briefly as one of many questions.

 

[goldstar97]

I don't plan on attending a MD/PhD or DO/PhD program. I'm willing to attend any MD or DO school that accepts me. A top-20 school would be nice but not necessary. If I was to get a research opportunity, how much time would I need to devote to it? I currently work 40 hours per week, go to school part time, and I plan to volunteer four hours per week at a local hospital.


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[NuttyEngDude]

5-10 hours a week, the more the better, everything depends on your PI and your goals. If you are treating it like a checkmark item to dispassionately have then I supposed any amount doesnt matter. But your time would be better spent on something that fires you up.

 

[take the shot]

Just wondering how important research is when applying to med school as a non-trad, having been out of academia for some time. Looking for responses from people who have experience speaking with various adcoms about this or have had to go back and get research experience to be competitive.

If you did have to find research, where did you end up doing it and for how long? This is one element that I worry about and regret not doing while in undergrad and grad school.

Thanks!

Research is one of those things that can make an application stronger as it makes you a more interesting candidate no matter what your scores may be . The trick is to pick something, anything that you have an interest in and see if you can participate in someone's ongoing research...either as a volunteer or paid assistant. It is better if you are really ihterested in the topic as this passion will come across in your personal summary or interview. It's also crucial that you really understand the topic so you can speak about it eloquently if asked. I don't think it's crucial to get into med school but it definitely enhances whatever you have going for you.

By the way, a lot of the med schools keep lists of attendings who would love the free labor that pre-meds can give. May also give you a letter of rec if you do a great job

 

[grt398]

I don't plan on attending a MD/PhD or DO/PhD program. I'm willing to attend any MD or DO school that accepts me. A top-20 school would be nice but not necessary. If I was to get a research opportunity, how much time would I need to devote to it? I currently work 40 hours per week, go to school part time, and I plan to volunteer four hours per week at a local hospital.


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This may not be an option for you depending on your financial responsibilities, but I got a full-time job as a clinical research assistant at a large academic hospital when I decided to pursue medical school and that allowed me to both get lots of patient contact and basically do research full time. I then worked full time during the day, went to school at night, and volunteered at the same hospital I worked at so as to maximize the efficiency of my time. If you get into a productive lab with a good PI you'll start medical school with several publications under your belt and get a tremendous amount of clinical exposure in a way you otherwise wouldn't unless you were serving in a direct patient care role. My prior job was absolutely the motivation that kept me going during the pre-med process.

Overall I'd say it was a great way to approach the process, but admittedly you have to accept that your social life will disappear and your sleep will be somewhat limited.

 

[spacetomatoes]

I worried about this a lot when I started my post-bacc, and never was able to fit it in. I had no trouble being accepted my first round, and it never even came up. I second everyone who's said that intervierwers are way more interested in your non-trad-ness.

 

[docelh]

I think it depends on the research program and what type of school you are interested in.

Research is an unwritten requirement for those aspiring for research-intensive medical schools. But it's also appreciated by primary care schools.

In our medical clinical research program, we had people who were aspiring for PA, nursing, pharmacy, and dentistry. The bulk though were pre-allos and pre-osteo students.