Research Experience?

[revenge101]

Hello,

I am currently a college junior, and I recently received offers from two professors asking me to become a research assistant in their labs. I was wondering if this would look bad on my CV if I do not produce anything from these two experiences by the time I submit my med school application (I plan on applying the following cycle). Generally, at my school, most professors have undergrads help grad students out for one semester before starting their own projects. Also, how much research are top med schools looking for? I have been an RA in a clinical research study for 1.5 years and have participated in a summer research program. Currently, I have 3 posters (2 1st author and 1 2nd author) and I expect to publish 2-3 1st author pubs. Please do not "quote" this post when commenting. Thanks!

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[Ismet]

1) Are you applying MD/PhD?

2) You are WAY WAY WAY WAY ahead of the average applicant in terms of research. If you publish 2-3 1st author pubs then you're way ahead of the average MD/PhD applicant in terms of pubs.

3) Med schools are looking for research experience, that you understand the process, that you have an inquisitive and creative mind, etc. You don't need to produce a publication or presentation to have meaningful research experience. If you want to join one of these labs, go for it and don't worry about whether or not you'll get a paper or presentation out of them before you apply. If you do publish, you can always update schools that are receptive to updates.

 

[Petrichor1]

Have no publications, but 4 years of voluntary research going into 5th. Just have one poster and that is it. Still medical school facilities are impressed with what I have accomplished (atleast the SOM faculties I come across frequently while I'm on campus). This is a top tier school btw. You are well ahead of me so you can only imagine how well your accomplishments will be perceived.

 

[URHere]

Your research experience is fine, and publications/posters are icing (but not hard requirements) for medical school.

My question is whether or not you are planning to work in two research labs simultaneously (like it sounds in your post). This can be done, but in 99% of cases, you'll accomplish significantly more if you just pick one lab and double the time you spend there.

 

[revenge101]

Your research experience is fine, and publications/posters are icing (but not hard requirements) for medical school.

My question is whether or not you are planning to work in two research labs simultaneously (like it sounds in your post). This can be done, but in 99% of cases, you'll accomplish significantly more if you just pick one lab and double the time you spend there.

Ultimately, I hope to start an independent project with these two professors, but given that I do not know them well enough yet to guess how likely/soon it will be for me to have a chance to analyze data for one of their projects yet, I am thinking of working with them both to get to know them better and work as productively as I can in the hopes of publishing as a co-author. There is always the possibility that one of them does not trust undergrads that well, so I am leaving myself with an alternative route in case if something backfires.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

It's a great goal to have independent projects and to publish. But it's fairly rare for undergrads to publish at all--let alone have multiple first author pubs. (I've been working full-time in clinical research for 3 years and, although I have several pubs as a coauthor, none of them are first author.) Not trying to discourage you; I just think it's good to have realistic expectations. You're right that PIs don't always trust undergrads but I think it's also true that many undergrads just aren't doing work at a level that justifies publication. I wouldn't fret too much. If you publish, that's awesome and will certainly look good. But if you don't, it's not going to hurt you. The point is to learn and get an understanding of what research entails.

 

[revenge101]

How strict are the top schools in getting LORs from all of your research PIs (e.g. Harvard)? I participated in a summer research program this past summer and I am planning to reapply to go back to work at the same lab next summer. My goal is to get into a research-intensive school (i.e. schools near the T10), and I would really like to get a strong LOR from my research PI. The only issue is that this past summer, I was getting used to the new lab and none of the other lab workers are as motivated/efficient as I was, which caused me to have to encourage the people I was collaborating with to the point where everyone thought I was being "pushy." I did not want to come off this way, especially since everyone is older than me, but I had no choice, given that I was a visiting student and I only had 10 weeks. Anyway, my backup plan was to go back to the same lab to repair my relationship with them and to have my PI know me more as a person. If all goes well, I was wondering if it would be too late to ask my PI for an LOR near the end of the summer (sometime like late July/early August), since I would like to give myself some time to demonstrate what I can do. I do not want to do anything that would derail my plan of applying early in the cycle, but I also want to obtain a strong LOR that would be really helpful for my goals.

 

[Ismet]

How strict are the top schools in getting LORs from all of your research PIs (e.g. Harvard)? I participated in a summer research program this past summer and I am planning to reapply to go back to work at the same lab next summer. My goal is to get into a research-intensive school (i.e. schools near the T10), and I would really like to get a strong LOR from my research PI. The only issue is that this past summer, I was getting used to the new lab and none of the other lab workers are as motivated/efficient as I was, which caused me to have to encourage the people I was collaborating with to the point where everyone thought I was being "pushy." I did not want to come off this way, especially since everyone is older than me, but I had no choice, given that I was a visiting student and I only had 10 weeks. Anyway, my backup plan was to go back to the same lab to repair my relationship with them and to have my PI know me more as a person. If all goes well, I was wondering if it would be too late to ask my PI for an LOR near the end of the summer (sometime like late July/early August), since I would like to give myself some time to demonstrate what I can do. I do not want to do anything that would derail my plan of applying early in the cycle, but I also want to obtain a strong LOR that would be really helpful for my goals.

Weren't you already told in another thread that you shouldn't get this LOR?

If the school does not specify that they need a letter from every single PI, then they don't. I didn't have a letter from the PI from my summer internship because that was after freshman year and I had much more substantial research later on, where I got a very strong letter. No school I applied to required letters from every single PI, and I got into a top research-focused school.

 

[GrapesofRath]

How strict are the top schools in getting LORs from all of your research PIs (e.g. Harvard)?

Even the Harvard "rule" which is infamous on SDN isn't strict and set in stone. It's more a guideline---albeit one that should be followed in the majority of instances. Having said that, if you have multiple strong research experiences and can get multiple strong PI letters, not having a letter from one isn't going to get your app automatically sent to the trash at Harvard. I know of people with situations similar to what I described who got II's at Harvard; the guideline isn't made to be set in stone. Basically, you shouldnt remove Harvard from your school list just because you have 4 research experiences and have 3 very strong PI letters but one PI who wont write one(there are some PIs who have really rigid or strict demands for writing a letter ie I know of one who requires his students to have a pub in order to get a letter and even then will turn many of his students away when they ask).

Btw Harvard is really the only school that I've heard of this(others can correct me if I'm wrong). There are some schools that strongly suggest or want a PI letter and explicitly state such(ie Cornell) and not having one can be a negative but even amongst top schools, I havent seen any school other than Harvard that specifically "counts" the number of strong PI letters per se. The quality of the letter is what's of most relevance.