Research: Yah or Nah?

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MidwestLovin

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I had a meeting with a potential lab this week and I am torn. It sounds like an amazing opportunity, but the time commitment worries me. I'll pretty much be agreeing to do research until I graduate. For people that do research heavily and are premed, can you include both "premed" things (volunteering) and research. If so, how? I want to do other things twice a week, which doesn't leave much time?
 
Yah it's totally doable but you have to draw the line. If you want research experience for the sake of the experience, then find a short term commitment in an interesting lab.

If you want to be involved in research in the future as part of your career, then seek out a lab that'll let you eventually take on independent projects instead of grunt work.

10-15 hours a week is a reasonable research commitment. Use weekend mornings/summer to volunteer and shadow and all that other good stuff. YMMV it's all abought time management.
 
Yah it's totally doable but you have to draw the line. If you want research experience for the sake of the experience, then find a short term commitment in an interesting lab.

If you want to be involved in research in the future as part of your career, then seek out a lab that'll let you eventually take on independent projects instead of grunt work.

10-15 hours a week is a reasonable research commitment. Use weekend mornings/summer to volunteer and shadow and all that other good stuff. YMMV it's all abought time management.
I like research, but not as a career. I'll be doing my own project which is a part of my mentor's project. It requires reading papers, journal clubs, and submitting briefs. Basically, everyday until 6 I can expect to be in the lab/class, which is great. Is there any benefit to this for medical school only? Supposedly my potential PI is very known in the graduate school world, not sure about medical.
 
I like research, but not as a career. I'll be doing my own project which is a part of my mentor's project. It requires reading papers, journal clubs, and submitting briefs. Basically, everyday until 6 I can expect to be in the lab/class, which is great. Is there any benefit to this for medical school only? Supposedly my potential PI is very known in the graduate school world, not sure about medical.

Research experience is beneficial for med school admissions period. A known PI is just a plus.
 
Yah it's totally doable but you have to draw the line. If you want research experience for the sake of the experience, then find a short term commitment in an interesting lab.

If you want to be involved in research in the future as part of your career, then seek out a lab that'll let you eventually take on independent projects instead of grunt work.

10-15 hours a week is a reasonable research commitment. Use weekend mornings/summer to volunteer and shadow and all that other good stuff. YMMV it's all abought time management.
This.

Honestly, this doesn't sound so bad but we also don't know how many credits you are taking, whether you work, if you are studying for the MCAT, and what other obligations you may have. Your grades and MCAT come first...Research is nice but if it really isn't your thing it's okay to do something else with your time. You can use that time to work on your ec's and get some leadership experience. Just because an opportunity comes your way doesn't mean you have to take it. There will be other opportunities to get some research experience if you are proactive and contact different departments and faculty. You may be able to find another gig with a smaller role and less time commitment. Either way, best of luck.
 
This.

Honestly, this doesn't sound so bad but we also don't know how many credits you are taking, whether you work, if you are studying for the MCAT, and what other obligations you may have. Your grades and MCAT come first...Research is nice but if it really isn't your thing it's okay to do something else with your time. You can use that time to work on your ec's and get some leadership experience. Just because an opportunity comes your way doesn't mean you have to take it. There will be other opportunities to get some research experience if you are proactive and contact different departments and faculty. You may be able to find another gig with a smaller role and less time commitment. Either way, best of luck.

No doubt I could, but these opportunities are great. I'll think about it..
 
I'll describe my situation. Research probably takes up 60% of my time outside of class. I'm there before and after my classes and I often spend my weekends running longer experiments. I love it and I'm getting a lot out of it. But, I am now starting to wish I had spent more time volunteering. I often am so drained by the time I'm done with my work in the evening I just go home to study for a few hours and call it a night. I, however, think I am on the more extreme end of the spectrum. I don't think, especially at first, you would feel this way. 10-15 hours a week is incredibly manageable (usually!).

I love my research. But I've set some sort of internal standard for myself and the lab definitely takes note if I'm not there as much as usual (they're so understanding, but me suddenly putting in only 10 hr/wk makes it seem like I'm slacking). If I could do it again, I'd try to be more balanced with research and other things.
 
I'll describe my situation. Research probably takes up 60% of my time outside of class. I'm there before and after my classes and I often spend my weekends running longer experiments. I love it and I'm getting a lot out of it. But, I am now starting to wish I had spent more time volunteering. I often am so drained by the time I'm done with my work in the evening I just go home to study for a few hours and call it a night. I, however, think I am on the more extreme end of the spectrum. I don't think, especially at first, you would feel this way. 10-15 hours a week is incredibly manageable (usually!).

I love my research. But I've set some sort of internal standard for myself and the lab definitely takes note if I'm not there as much as usual (they're so understanding, but me suddenly putting in only 10 hr/wk makes it seem like I'm slacking). If I could do it again, I'd try to be more balanced with research and other things.
Aw, that sucks. 12 hours is what I want to put in a week. Honestly, I probably lay on my ass 12 hours a week, so it should be more than fine, it's just hard because I want to do medical stuff too.
 
Meaningful research that takes some outside work and results in a great rec and results, or lab slave 1-2 times a week? I think the choice is clear, I just need to work my ass off.
 
Don't do research if you're only doing it for sake of applying to med school. Do it because you want to do it and don't mind the hours. Otherwise you will be miserable. SO miserable.

With that said, however, research is vital to top schools. I have a family friend who served as an adcom at Stanford SOM and he said that Stanford med pretty much view themselves as a graduate school in medicine (notice the change from school of medicine to graduate school- they heavily favor research).

Also, if you only spend 10-15 hours a week in lab, you won't really accomplish anything since that translates to only 2-3 hours a day. A lot of experiments take the whole day (The longest I've spent in lab in a single day is 19 hours straight) and if you don't follow through with it, you won't get any results (When I was undergrad, I spent on average 30-40hrs a week in lab during my senior year. Now as master student, that has gone way higher).

You can always find time to do other things, i.e. volunteering, but you'll need to really work on your time management skills - efficient studying habits, no procrastinating...etc. You will probably have to give up more social life than your non premed friends too.
 
Don't do research if you're only doing it for sake of applying to med school. Do it because you want to do it and don't mind the hours. Otherwise you will be miserable. SO miserable.

With that said, however, research is vital to top schools. I have a family friend who served as an adcom at Stanford SOM and he said that Stanford med pretty much view themselves as a graduate school in medicine (notice the change from school of medicine to graduate school- they heavily favor research).

Also, if you only spend 10-15 hours a week in lab, you won't really accomplish anything since that translates to only 2-3 hours a day. A lot of experiments take the whole day (The longest I've spent in lab in a single day is 19 hours straight) and if you don't follow through with it, you won't get any results (When I was undergrad, I spent on average 30-40hrs a week in lab during my senior year. Now as master student, that has gone way higher).

You can always find time to do other things, i.e. volunteering, but you'll need to really work on your time management skills - efficient studying habits, no procrastinating...etc. You will probably have to give up more social life than your non premed friends too.

I'm fine with it all and I want to do research. I don't plan on getting into any top schools either, as my GPA is laughable. My interviewer told me to look at it as if you have a 9-6 job everyday minus classes. That's not that much and of course I will put in Saturdays and Sundays.

I'm worried that volunteering hours, clinic hours, and I won't be able to take advantage of other opportunities because none of them allow you to work after 6 or on weekends.
 
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There will always be time for things that are important to you. Med schools definitely take notice of research experience and it will be a boost for your application.

I would argue that 10-15 hours in lab is a significant amount of time and I have seen students complete significant projects with that amount of commitment.

A few tidbits I wrote on student research: http://bit.ly/1rhy4o2
 
There will always be time for things that are important to you. Med schools definitely take notice of research experience and it will be a boost for your application.

I would argue that 10-15 hours in lab is a significant amount of time and I have seen students complete significant projects with that amount of commitment.

A few tidbits I wrote on student research: http://bit.ly/1rhy4o2
Very helpful, thank you. Clinical research is also one of the things I want to do. Has a smaller time commitment (a few times a month). Are both of them possible?
 
I just received another email from a graduate student needing a research assistant for just the summer. Gosh, my head hurts from all of this. I think I went a bit crazy emailing labs because my options are now
1. Lab Maid summer
2. Lab Maid couple days a week all year
3. Significant research rest of my undergraduate career
4. Decent amount of research this summer
My head hurts and I need to study. :bang:
 
To get the most outta being in a lab, go for the ones where the PI will actually have time to talk to you/get to know you - i.e. don't go for a famous professor with an impressive title/appointment, but is too busy to talk to/mentor you. I made that mistake when I joined my lab as undergrad. My PI is the director for the cancer center at my school as well as a practicing physician. He didn't know my name for the first year I was there.

Make sure you can get along with the people in the lab you chose and that they are open to letting you being one of the co-authors if anything related to your work gets published (provided you contributed a significant amount).

And lastly, make sure you are interested in the topic the lab is working on - i.e. a plant biology lab v.s. a leukemia lab
 
I had a meeting with a potential lab this week and I am torn. It sounds like an amazing opportunity, but the time commitment worries me. I'll pretty much be agreeing to do research until I graduate. For people that do research heavily and are premed, can you include both "premed" things (volunteering) and research. If so, how? I want to do other things twice a week, which doesn't leave much time?
Absolutely did that and volunteered at 2 spots. I was taking only 12-13 semester units though.
 
I just received another email from a graduate student needing a research assistant for just the summer. Gosh, my head hurts from all of this. I think I went a bit crazy emailing labs because my options are now
1. Lab Maid summer
2. Lab Maid couple days a week all year
3. Significant research rest of my undergraduate career
4. Decent amount of research this summer
My head hurts and I need to study. :bang:
I'll offer my 2 cents here. I was very involved in research all throughout college. About 15 hrs/week sophomore and junior year and about 20-25 hrs/week senior year. A typically pre-med's life in college is a mix of classes, volunteering, work, and ECs. Now try to throw research into that mix and it can drive you crazy. It's not that adding 10-15 hrs/week is devastating, but it will really throw off your schedule, and your samples don't care about your schedule.

See you might be busy 9a-11a volunteering, then have class 1:30p-5p, then have ECs 6p-8p. The next day might be totally different. Suddenly you're getting off volunteering and rushing to the lab to prepare an experiment to run while you're in class. Maybe it requires a small change every 2 hours. Now you're running to lab to collect a sample or change the temperature between classes. You'll probably try to finish up the experiment from 5-6, but don't be surprised if it takes longer than expected and makes you late. Now go to your ECs, head home, and finish your homework. Some days will be better than others, but this is about what you can expect.

Ideally you would spend 5 hours on research 2-3 times a week, but like I said before, your samples don't care about your schedule. Your cells need maintenance all the time, and your experiments will have varying time points. Sure, maybe you only have to do 15 minutes of work every hour for an experiment, but lugging between the lab and library/office every hour is going to lead to really unproductive studying. Even beyond lab time there will be a constant need to read relevant papers. Probably at least 1 paper per week, which will take 2-3 hours. Then there will be the million experiments you should be doing but don't have time to do. Essentially it comes down to this: you just won't have the schedule space during undergrad to do research the right way. If you care about your work, this will bother you. Personally, I found that adding research basically took any free time and tore it to shreds. Then again, I was "lucky" enough to always have been put on my own project, which I think is unreasonable in undergrad unless your only other distraction is classwork and minimal ECs (the case for most pre-PhDs) or your project is particularly schedule friendly. It's possible to do this with your other activities. I did it, managed a few posters, abstracts, and awards, and still managed a good GPA and solid ECs, but I still never published a paper, and I felt scatterbrained, rushed, and behind almost all the time.

Find a lab where you will start working solidly under a graduate student or post-doc doing actual research. Being a petri dish cleaner is a waste of your time, and working on your own project is the blackhole time-sink I described above, and you could still end up going 3 years without any deliverables. Have a schedule in place where you work specific hours in the week but are still involved enough to get on a manuscript. Try to stay involved in the same lab for at least two years. My biggest mistake was switching around too much. I wouldn't have regretted this if I had ultimately decided on research, but if you don't want this for a career then the only thing you care about are deliverables (papers, posters, awards, etc...), which you get only with sustained involvement or luck. The best research experiences I had were over the summer. During the semester there are too many distractions to do high-quality research, but if you can make it like any other activity (i.e. 3-5 M-F) it will be far more tolerable and you can put in enough time for a co-authorship, just hope your grad student/post-doc is smart enough to put together good experiments.
 
I'll offer my 2 cents here. I was very involved in research all throughout college. About 15 hrs/week sophomore and junior year and about 20-25 hrs/week senior year. A typically pre-med's life in college is a mix of classes, volunteering, work, and ECs. Now try to throw research into that mix and it can drive you crazy. It's not that adding 10-15 hrs/week is devastating, but it will really throw off your schedule, and your samples don't care about your schedule.

See you might be busy 9a-11a volunteering, then have class 1:30p-5p, then have ECs 6p-8p. The next day might be totally different. Suddenly you're getting off volunteering and rushing to the lab to prepare an experiment to run while you're in class. Maybe it requires a small change every 2 hours. Now you're running to lab to collect a sample or change the temperature between classes. You'll probably try to finish up the experiment from 5-6, but don't be surprised if it takes longer than expected and makes you late. Now go to your ECs, head home, and finish your homework. Some days will be better than others, but this is about what you can expect.

Ideally you would spend 5 hours on research 2-3 times a week, but like I said before, your samples don't care about your schedule. Your cells need maintenance all the time, and your experiments will have varying time points. Sure, maybe you only have to do 15 minutes of work every hour for an experiment, but lugging between the lab and library/office every hour is going to lead to really unproductive studying. Even beyond lab time there will be a constant need to read relevant papers. Probably at least 1 paper per week, which will take 2-3 hours. Then there will be the million experiments you should be doing but don't have time to do. Essentially it comes down to this: you just won't have the schedule space during undergrad to do research the right way. If you care about your work, this will bother you. Personally, I found that adding research basically took any free time and tore it to shreds. Then again, I was "lucky" enough to always have been put on my own project, which I think is unreasonable in undergrad unless your only other distraction is classwork and minimal ECs (the case for most pre-PhDs) or your project is particularly schedule friendly. It's possible to do this with your other activities. I did it, managed a few posters, abstracts, and awards, and still managed a good GPA and solid ECs, but I still never published a paper, and I felt scatterbrained, rushed, and behind almost all the time.

Find a lab where you will start working solidly under a graduate student or post-doc doing actual research. Being a petri dish cleaner is a waste of your time, and working on your own project is the blackhole time-sink I described above, and you could still end up going 3 years without any deliverables. Have a schedule in place where you work specific hours in the week but are still involved enough to get on a manuscript. Try to stay involved in the same lab for at least two years. My biggest mistake was switching around too much. I wouldn't have regretted this if I had ultimately decided on research, but if you don't want this for a career then the only thing you care about are deliverables (papers, posters, awards, etc...), which you get only with sustained involvement or luck. The best research experiences I had were over the summer. During the semester there are too many distractions to do high-quality research, but if you can make it like any other activity (i.e. 3-5 M-F) it will be far more tolerable and you can put in enough time for a co-authorship, just hope your grad student/post-doc is smart enough to put together good experiments.
I don't know if I can do it. I am working under a graduate student/post-doc, but it all just seems so stressful.
 
I don't know if I can do it. I am working under a graduate student/post-doc, but it all just seems so stressful.
If you're pre-med, I would honestly try to keep from getting too sucked in. You can pour your heart, soul, and sanity into a lab and come up empty with a bad project. That happened to me more than once over my 4 years. There are so many other things you can do to make yourself look attractive for medical school that aren't so based on chance. I agree with everything @snowflakes said in his/her post. It really affected my QOL in college, and if I could do it again, I'd just do summers and hold a minimal position (<15 hours) during the semesters.

On a related note, does anyone know how research works in medical school? Is it the same model where you try to somehow take classes and do basic lab research simultaneously? Or, is research mostly clinical side projects or done over the summers?
This is SO SO true. I was sincerely committed to doing my project well and seeing it to completion before I left. This is probably the real reason I increased my hours so much towards the end. Pre-PhDs do this, but for them, they don't have to worry about things like volunteering or GPAs as much as premeds. Managing to do meaningful research while not compromising on any of my other commitments was very stressful. This why summers were so great--you have the time to do research the right way.
This is exactly why I started doing 20-25 hours my senior year, though some weeks would be closer to 40 hours, and I still couldn't do research the right way. At one point I fell behind on reading and started doing experiments without thoroughly consulting the literature and all the technical aspects of my setup first. I simply didn't have time to read papers, and of course I missed a small detail that made me doubt the validity of about a month and a half of work. It was devastating.

I must say, I really don't like how much focus is placed on research in undergrad today. I wish I could have simply focused on doing a few things very well instead of scraping by spread way too thin. My old soccer coach in high school used to say that you can do up to three things well. One of those things has to be your job/school, one has to be friends/family, and you can pick one more before the others start to suffer. I picked school and friends/family, and ECs, volunteering, and research all suffered.
 
If you're a low stat applicant, in my opinion you can benefit more from something besides research (community service, study abroad, etc etc). If you're a high stat applicant, better do research.
 
If you're pre-med, I would honestly try to keep from getting too sucked in. You can pour your heart, soul, and sanity into a lab and come up empty with a bad project. That happened to me more than once over my 4 years. There are so many other things you can do to make yourself look attractive for medical school that aren't so based on chance. I agree with everything @snowflakes said in his/her post. It really affected my QOL in college, and if I could do it again, I'd just do summers and hold a minimal position (<15 hours) during the semesters.

On a related note, does anyone know how research works in medical school? Is it the same model where you try to somehow take classes and do basic lab research simultaneously? Or, is research mostly clinical side projects or done over the summers?

This is exactly why I started doing 20-25 hours my senior year, though some weeks would be closer to 40 hours, and I still couldn't do research the right way. At one point I fell behind on reading and started doing experiments without thoroughly consulting the literature and all the technical aspects of my setup first. I simply didn't have time to read papers, and of course I missed a small detail that made me doubt the validity of about a month and a half of work. It was devastating.

I must say, I really don't like how much focus is placed on research in undergrad today. I wish I could have simply focused on doing a few things very well instead of scraping by spread way too thin. My old soccer coach in high school used to say that you can do up to three things well. One of those things has to be your job/school, one has to be friends/family, and you can pick one more before the others start to suffer. I picked school and friends/family, and ECs, volunteering, and research all suffered.
I don't plan on being that involved, unless I need to be at certain times which is understandable.
But, with 12 hours or so a week, should I do it for the experience?
 
I don't plan on being that involved, unless I need to be at certain times which is understandable.
But, with 12 hours or so a week, should I do it for the experience?
Just 12 hours????? Lucky! ive spent more time with our clones and the Ph.D. I work with in the genetics research lab in the past month than I have spent with my girlfriend! like sometimes I go in at 3 then don't leave until 9...
 
Just 12 hours????? Lucky! ive spent more time with our clones and the Ph.D. I work with in the genetics research lab in the past month than I have spent with my girlfriend! like sometimes I go in at 3 then don't leave until 9...
That's perfectly understandable and I will do that when I need to, but the PI wants me to focus on school along with research, as he understands how tough it is to attain high grades here.
 
My Bio class brought up his research today, I think I need to commit, but writing papers constantly and then a 50 page senior thesis is what worries me the most.
 
This guy sends ugrads to pretty much all ivies every year, but for Phd..
 
Hmm I feel really torn about the bolded. On one hand, having the opportunity to get close to doing research the right way was a fantastic learning experience that really enhanced my education. But on the other hand, like you say earlier, undergrad schedules just aren't built to allow for meaningful research. I remember one day, a grad student and I both spent the entire day in lab from 8am to 8pm, her there all day save for an hour meeting, me running in and out several times during incubation periods to go to class, meetings, etc. As we left, I asked her how much work she normally does when she gets home, and she said none, because everything she did during the day was the main work she had to do. For me, I was just going to be starting studying/working which is what I consider to be the main work I have to do. Most of everything else I had done that day was my EXTRA curricular stuff. This is probably an example of an extreme day, but still illustrative of my point.
This is what I mean. I felt like a pancake in undergrad, and I learned to juggle a million things at once, but I never learned to appreciate the feeling of attempting to completely master one subject or project. Every class was about learning to do just enough to get an A, and every extra curricular was just me trying to maintain acceptable status for attendance and outside work since experiments could so often bleed over and into free time. Your experience above was pretty much a weekly thing for me, and other days could be nearly as bad. I feel like I would have been much happier trying to be a master of one thing rather than a jack-of-all-trades, but research has become an expected part of scientific undergrad education. For me, I think I would have had a better and more beneficial undergrad experience if I had just done research over the summer, but I felt obligated to work during the semester as well to be taken seriously as a top student. It really is a great experience. but I felt like I was neck deep in a million things at all times. It's not an experience I'm looking to replicate in medical school, though it may be unavoidable, and that may be why medical schools value that "juggling" ability so highly.
 
This is what I mean. I felt like a pancake in undergrad, and I learned to juggle a million things at once, but I never learned to appreciate the feeling of attempting to completely master one subject or project. Every class was about learning to do just enough to get an A, and every extra curricular was just me trying to maintain acceptable status for attendance and outside work since experiments could so often bleed over and into free time. Your experience above was pretty much a weekly thing for me, and other days could be nearly as bad. I feel like I would have been much happier trying to be a master of one thing rather than a jack-of-all-trades, but research has become an expected part of scientific undergrad education. For me, I think I would have had a better and more beneficial undergrad experience if I had just done research over the summer, but I felt obligated to work during the semester as well to be taken seriously as a top student. It really is a great experience. but I felt like I was neck deep in a million things at all times. It's not an experience I'm looking to replicate in medical school, though it may be unavoidable, and that may be why medical schools value that "juggling" ability so highly.
Ugh, I have no clue what to do.
 
Ugh, I have no clue what to do.
Get a position, limit your hours per week, but maximize your impact by knowing what you're talking about. Spend a decent amount of time doing things that aren't research, and don't let it take over your life unless you decide to go PhD or MD/PhD
 
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